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  #61  
Old 08-06-2013, 07:20 PM
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e:

Last edited by Pajaro Pete; 08-07-2013 at 12:14 AM.
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  #62  
Old 08-06-2013, 10:03 PM
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Sorry, I'm behind.

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  #63  
Old 08-06-2013, 10:14 PM
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(Man I have already crumpled up so many pieces of paper trying to draw this thing and as you've seen I have a pretty low bar for what I'm willing to run through my scanner so, you know what, I am just going to describe it to you.)

I rather like the idea that Asmodeus is an old demon who's secure in his power, and looks down on the younger, try-hard demonic types who go in for humanoid shapes with spikes and chains and leather. He wears a form that's comfortable, dominated by a pinwheel of three faces -- a human, a bull, and a goat -- which surround a shared central eye. The rest of his body is flabby and mostly shapeless, with a hint of talon or nipple here and there, maybe the occasional hoof jutting out at an angle that makes it entirely unsuitable for locomotion. If Asmodeus needs to get around, he has people for that; his domain may be lust, but he's mostly into administration these days.
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  #64  
Old 08-06-2013, 10:50 PM
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not sure if i'll ever actually do this, but here's a quick concept:


"three heads" is pretty open to interpretation. i was thinking fetishy gear for his clothes b/c lust but i'm really not sure what to do with face/head stuff. the ram/bull heads would sway back and forth and constantly be breathing fire. if this was chrono trigger the ram head would be the true asmodeus.

alternate doodle:
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  #65  
Old 08-07-2013, 12:02 AM
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Yessss
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  #66  
Old 08-07-2013, 02:53 AM
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Though this shouldn't stop anyone from coming up with their own creative designs that are better than IV's, I'm willing to bet my butt flower that if Kaneko were here, he would base his own off this infamous Dictionnaire Infernal illustration...



...only updated with a chic style for the discerning modern archdemon.

Also, I vote for Deptford's second Medusa to be the official TT Compendium entry.
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  #67  
Old 08-07-2013, 03:57 AM
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I'd try depicting Asmodeus as a man-sized slot machine, with different heads on each reel, a spear as the pull lever, and spouting flames from the coin tray.

Or, keeping with the "casino" theme, perhaps incorporate his design into a gigantic neon sign, and of his three heads, only one at a time would be "lit" in the animation cycle.
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  #68  
Old 08-07-2013, 09:34 AM
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This is my first go. I wanted to have a man with bull and ram heads at the end of his arms. Then I put some big honkin' rooster feet (how many toes do roosters have? I drew two but I have this feeling that it's three) on him and a snake tail which doesn't look like a snake tail. And then some other little man arms because reasons.



Number two I guess I was channeling Bebop, but as a bull instead of a warthog. I don't even know what the body would be here. I'm guessing pretty generic musclebound dude with some animal flourishes.

I might actually flesh this one out later. I kinda like him. No. I really like him.
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  #69  
Old 08-07-2013, 09:49 AM
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I think a little bit of Dungeons and Dragons might spice up some of your designs/thoughts.

In D&D, Asmodeus is the God of Lies.

Weakened after his fall, he rests on the ninth layer of the Abyss, slowly gaining his strength back. Aside from a personal guard, he demands solitude. The Blood War? That's all a distraction for him to take advantage of, masking his own intentions, and causing those who would oppose him to ignore the danger they can't see for the danger they can. What he needs to heal himself, to burst out from his 'prison' is not worship, but unbelief.

* * *

Outside of hell, a large group of individuals in the land of the living called the Athar have organized themselves around a singular purpose: that the gods - as the world knows it - are frauds. After all, the gods in their world demand fealty, worship, and respect. Would not someone who was truly all powerful have no use for the prayers or mortals? As proof, they show how their own clerics can draw divine power from the "Great Unknown", whom they believe is "a force they believe is beyond the ken of mortals and gods alike" (Planewalker Planescape 3.5 campaign setting, Chapter 3).

* * *

Down below, Asmodeus feels the prayers of the Athar. He didn't create them, but their "worship" reaches him still. When a person who doesn't believe in any higher powers - such as the Athar die - they are sent to the ninth layer of hell where they are consumed by Asmodeus.

A man said once that the greatest trick the devil ever pulled off was convincing the world he doesn't exist.

Asmodeus waits.
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  #70  
Old 08-07-2013, 09:53 AM
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We aren't going for a D&D Asmodeus here, but rather the "real" one from Judeo-Christian lore.
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  #71  
Old 08-07-2013, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Eirikr View Post
We aren't going for a D&D Asmodeus here, but rather the "real" one from Judeo-Christian lore.
You dont get to decide what people use as influence here!
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  #72  
Old 08-07-2013, 09:57 AM
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You dont get to decide what people use as influence here!
If we're going for SMT or mythological though, then D&D kind of does its own thing and is thus irrelevant to the kinds of things we're trying to reflect here.
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  #73  
Old 08-07-2013, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Eirikr View Post
If we're going for SMT or mythological though, then D&D kind of does its own thing and is thus irrelevant to the kinds of things we're trying to reflect here.
SMT has put plenty of spin on how they represent these figures. I don't see why we can't either.
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  #74  
Old 08-07-2013, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Falselogic View Post
SMT has put plenty of spin on how they represent these figures. I don't see why we can't either.
Then put your money where your mouth is, chum. I ain't gonna stop you. But source of influence should be considered in these designs, is all I'm saying.

Like, if we ever get to Bahamut for some reason and it's a dragon instead of a giant fish, well, then we're going to go to fisticuffs.
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  #75  
Old 08-07-2013, 10:09 AM
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Then put your money where your mouth is, chum. I ain't gonna stop you. But source of influence should be considered in these designs, is all I'm saying.

Like, if we ever get to Bahamut for some reason and it's a dragon instead of a giant fish, well, then we're going to go to fisticuffs.
I'm not drawing anything. I'm just not cool with someone policing how and what people should draw
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  #76  
Old 08-07-2013, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Falselogic View Post
I'm not drawing anything. I'm just not cool with someone policing how and what people should draw
But this is kind of the point of the thread, as a reaction to the bad designs in SMTIV, which some consider so because they lack the strict mythological/folkloric basis present in the previous games. If someone wants to draw a D&D take on something, that's fine, but that's outside the normal boundaries of what we're going for here and, worse, runs the risk of providing an interpretation which hews closer to the inappropriate designs which we are trying to better.
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  #77  
Old 08-07-2013, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Eirikr View Post
But this is kind of the point of the thread, as a reaction to the bad designs in SMTIV, which some consider so because they lack the strict mythological/folkloric basis present in the previous games. If someone wants to draw a D&D take on something, that's fine, but that's outside the normal boundaries of what we're going for here and, worse, runs the risk of providing an interpretation which hews closer to the inappropriate designs which we are trying to better.
That is your problem with the designs. Some of us just think they look a little too 1994. From the OP:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deptford
IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ ANY EXPLANATION, JUST GO DRAW YOUR OWN TAKE ON 'MEDUSA', THEN COME BACK HERE AND POST IT, GO GO GO...
and

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deptford
So come up with a design. You can actually try, or you can do some mspaint wackiness, or whatever. Just riff on Medusa...who has got some good concepts to riff on...however you see fit, but with an eye to doing at least something new or different with your take.
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  #78  
Old 08-07-2013, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Falselogic View Post
That is your problem with the designs. Some of us just think they look a little too 1994. From the OP:
Whoa, that bold nearly made my heart skip a beat, Mr. Policeman.

However, it's not merely an issue I have by my lonesome. Just my two cents as I think including D&D as a source will cycle us right back around to the beginning.
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  #79  
Old 08-07-2013, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pajaro Pete View Post
alternate doodle:
I like this one, lots.
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  #80  
Old 08-07-2013, 10:49 AM
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Strict adherence to the mythology never seemed like a priority in SMT designs to me. I mean, you've got dickmara, future suit Cu Chulainn, ~adorable~ Mothman, etc. Mara being a dong kinda fits the idea of an incarnation of temptation/earthly distraction, but it doesn't really pay any mind to the depictions of him that do exist. It's a pretty loose, lighthearted interpretation.
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  #81  
Old 08-07-2013, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Epithet View Post
Strict adherence to the mythology never seemed like a priority in SMT designs to me. I mean, you've got dickmara, future suit Cu Chulainn, ~adorable~ Mothman, etc. Mara being a dong kinda fits the idea of an incarnation of temptation/earthly distraction, but it doesn't really pay any mind to the depictions of him that do exist. It's a pretty loose, lighthearted interpretation.
It's there as a base, but you're right, it's easy to find designs that go outside the stricter definitions. Jack Frost or any appearance of one-headed Cerberus also fit the bill of going against popular depictions. But in a cast of hundreds, those tend to be the rare exceptions. Their origin is used to provide limits and structure to the design, and then embellished accordingly.
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  #82  
Old 08-07-2013, 02:37 PM
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Jack Frost started off as a generic evil snowman. It was only after Atlus made off with him that he became an adowwable sprite with a widdle hat, hee-ho. Cerberus and Loki, for their part, are victims of the novels and anime's Grandfather Clause, even if there's an alternate, newer design of the former with the appropriate number of heads. Kufurin? He's not wearing space armor, it's just armor, like the one he wore in SMT 1, except that it's painted white now and it looks streamlined and sleek because he was given a Nocturne-era art style upgrade.

And yeah, Kaneko tends to go overboard when it comes to sexual attributes. Mara, Mishaguji, Raihu (freaking Raihu,) Arioch, Incubus, Diana, Tiamat, Master Therion, Cthulhu, of all people, Omoteotl, Satan, High Pixie's Nipple Armor, and the poster versions of Such Bus and Satan's... additions, and yet only a handful of those even have anything to do with lust, desire, or sexuality. But for the most part, the revamped Compendium that has been in use since Devil Summoner is pretty spot-on for its symbolism. Barring oddities like Penanggal and the naked, DBZ scouter Odin, I can look at almost any given demon, read up on it, and see where and how they connect with either the myth's description, its deeds, its cultural origins, or, at the very least, artifacts and relics related to it. Like I've said before, his interpretation of Tlaloc bothered me at first, but it really opened my eyes to traditional depictions of the deity, while the one I was familiar withturned out to be an uncommon representation. And I just found out recently that priestesses of Tlazolteotl painted their mouths and the lower half of their faces black!

That's the kind of context that makes the Kamen Rider demons such awkward fits. Their symbolism lies entirely in the head of their designers, without much regard for the mythology that spawned them (if they even HAVE any kind of interpretation beyond the superficial.) That's not a bad thing in and of itself (Kaneko did the same thing with Satan) but it does set them apart from the greater consistency of the Compendium's aesthetic.
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  #83  
Old 08-07-2013, 05:58 PM
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Less pedantry, more awesome doodles

Sadly my doodles are the least awesome and cannot stand in this thread. I can merely observe.
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  #84  
Old 08-07-2013, 08:58 PM
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So that's three faces, roguish pluck, a penchant for gambling, demonic-style pacts, rigging the game, and an incarnation of lust. Think I hit all the major points.

Oh, and for a bit of Eddie-fication, I guess a final page would be "I DON'T BELIEVE IT!" "That only makes my powers stronger, you know."
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  #85  
Old 08-07-2013, 09:30 PM
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For some silly reason I completely forgot about the bird legs, so he had generic faun legs before I went in and added stupidtoes to kinda get the bird feet. Sorry!

I did, however, add a sheatfish, because he apparently hates sheatfish.
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  #86  
Old 08-07-2013, 09:46 PM
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Shared eyes between faces? Dude, get out of my head.
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  #87  
Old 08-07-2013, 10:36 PM
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  #88  
Old 08-07-2013, 11:08 PM
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may I just say? stumbling over to this thread as the first one I would read on the entirety of talking time, I'm extremely glad I'm here
I'm not an artist though, so carry on
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  #89  
Old 08-08-2013, 12:21 AM
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That face reminds me of Witch Hazel from the Bugs Bunny cartoons. Maybe they're related?
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  #90  
Old 08-08-2013, 08:09 PM
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