1-2-3-4: THE WICKED + THE DIVINE by Gillen/McKelvie - Page 2

ajr82 · #31 04-06-2016, 08:57 AM

Issue 18 is out today and all I can say is OHHHHHH SHIIIIIIIIT!!!

Karzac · #32 04-06-2016, 07:17 PM

Yeah, shit is getting real. Loved the battle outfits from Ananke, Woden and Sakhmet.

Congrats on being right, by the way.

Karzac · #33 05-23-2016, 08:59 PM

So, Team WicDiv released a teaser image for the upcoming Special Issue, which takes place in the 1830s Pantheon.

Unless I'm very mistaken, that's Ada Lovelace as Woden, which is going to be reallly interesting.

ajr82 · #34 06-08-2016, 01:56 PM

I'm torn on #20 between finding the the retconning of #11 to be, on the one hand, an irritating and kinda cheap undermining of audience faith, and on the other an interesting subversion of audience expectations and the nature of sequential storytelling. Hmmm....

Karzac · #35 06-08-2016, 02:35 PM

I'm super interested to read issue #20 now.

Karzac · #36 06-09-2016, 02:13 PM

So I read the issue. I liked it, although it's a bit more exposition heavy than usual.

I don't really agree that it's a retcon, or at least, it's not one that has the same problems that normally give retcons their bad name. It doesn't directly contradict anything we saw ourselves (In fact, I didn't even take the church explosion as Inanna's death at the time. And after Ananke seemingly explodes Laura's head, there's a blank page that explicitly says "I don't know what happened after that", leaving plenty of possibilities open) and it's clear that this was part of the plan all along, not "oh man, have to change that story beat that's dug us into a corner. But the main reason I think it works is that this is Ananke's deal. Every character death has had some sort of major lie built into it. This one just ended up having multiple lies.

ajr82 · #37 06-09-2016, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karzac

So I read the issue. I liked it, although it's a bit more exposition heavy than usual.

I don't really agree that it's a retcon, or at least, it's not one that has the same problems that normally give retcons their bad name. It doesn't directly contradict anything we saw ourselves (In fact, I didn't even take the church explosion as Inanna's death at the time. And after Ananke seemingly explodes Laura's head, there's a blank page that explicitly says "I don't know what happened after that", leaving plenty of possibilities open) and it's clear that this was part of the plan all along, not "oh man, have to change that story beat that's dug us into a corner. But the main reason I think it works is that this is Ananke's deal. Every character death has had some sort of major lie built into it. This one just ended up having multiple lies.

I guess by retcon I just meant "changing the structure of events that we saw happen". I can't remember the last time I saw a book essentially lie to the audience about what happened in the gutters between panels this exact way.

I think it's a bigger trick, structurally, than the remix issue. Serves as a big reminder that we're only seeing particular instants in each panel, that may or may not flow sequentially in a traditional way.

Karzac · #38 06-09-2016, 11:08 PM

Oh yeah, it's definitely a trick. Just one that feels appropriate to the characters. And certainly makes sense given Gillen's structural obsessions.

It's funny that you mention how rare it is in comics, because it's a fairly common technique in film. Directors play with the time between cuts all the time.

ajr82 · #39 06-09-2016, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karzac

Oh yeah, it's definitely a trick. Just one that feels appropriate to the characters. And certainly makes sense given Gillen's structural obsessions.

It's funny that you mention how rare it is in comics, because it's a fairly common technique in film. Directors play with the time between cuts all the time.

I've seen comics do the same thing, but usually with smaller, subtler events. This is pretty much literally treating each panel as an independent snapshot.

ajr82 · #40 08-17-2016, 09:43 AM

re: #22

Well shit.

The fact that the title of the next arc is Imperial Phase is totally not ominous, right?

Karzac · #41 08-18-2016, 11:40 AM

Somewhat ominous, but also a cheeky reference to the term Gillen uses for his current popularity. Not surprising, given that Gillen seems incapable of writing a phrase with only one meaning.

Anwyay, great issue. The art and colours were particularly impressive this time around.

Feels kind of weird to use spoilers, since this thread seems to just be me and you, ajr82.

ajr82 · #42 08-18-2016, 02:18 PM

Gillen's used the phrase to discuss all sorts of things he's done. I think he stole it from Tom Ewing. Still, the framing of Persepone on the last page combiend with it is definitely setting off my hubris warnings. Think we might about to see something in the Miracleman/Squadron Supreme mould.

Karzac · #43 08-18-2016, 02:23 PM

Oh yeah, things definitely aren't going to go well. Cass affirming that Ananke's opinion of Persephone is at least partly correct does not bode well. Plus, "the villain has a point" is a fairly common thread through Gillen's work.

ajr82 · #44 08-18-2016, 02:26 PM

And now poor Minerva has to deal with what Ananke did to her parents too.

Karzac · #45 08-21-2016, 08:27 AM

It just struck me that this final Tragically Hip tour is basically WicDiv in real life.

ajr82 · #46 08-22-2016, 09:40 AM

WicDiv would be a very different book if the gods reincarnated as 50-somethings.

Karzac · #47 08-22-2016, 08:01 PM

That is a good point.

ajr82 · #48 08-24-2016, 02:32 PM

Also, if you or anyone lurking the thread didn't hear, there's a Kickstarter for the next series of Uber, Gillen's World War 2 alternate history about the deployment of superhumans as WMDs in the last days of the war. It's not my favourite Gillen book, and the splash pages of people getting ripped apart get a little repetitive, but it's still well worth reading.

About a million miles away from WicDiv tonally, though.

Karzac · #49 08-24-2016, 02:47 PM

I did hear that! I haven't read Uber yet, but I've got the first volume on hold at the library.

Karzac · #50 09-21-2016, 03:58 PM

Did you get the special ajr? I just read it and it's really good. Now I'm having fun looking stuff up about the Shelleys and Byron and all the gods mentioned to figure out who they correspond to historically.

ajr82 · #51 09-22-2016, 10:13 AM

I did, but I haven't read it yet because I started to read it on my work computer and it seemed a little NSFW, and I was busy last night. I know absolutely nothing about the Romantics, though, so I'm concerned I'll be a bit lost.

Karzac · #52 09-23-2016, 08:08 AM

I only knew a smattering, but like I said, it's fun to Google the stuff. I've figured out (or had hinted at me from elsewhere on the Internet) who nearly all the gods are now.

If you're even vaguely familiar with Frankenstein, the main thrust of the story will be clear.

Karzac · #53 01-04-2017, 02:19 PM

I didn't realize it until the the letters section of the new issue: Persophone's symbol is a skull. Destroyer indeed.

EDIT: Although looking at issuer 24 again, that's plainly obvious.