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  #2701  
Old 07-31-2017, 09:55 AM
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Kind of feels like this season is rushing through plot, but since it's nearly half over, I guess I understand it.

Dany and Jon are both kind of being brats. Dany wants the authority of her family without being responsible for their crimes, and Jon's refusal to cede any ground when he doesn't really want to be king and knows he needs help just seems stubborn.

Bran's reunion with his sister was pretty cold, but he's gone through a lot of shit, hasn't he?

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Originally Posted by estragon View Post
. . . also, every time there's a Sam scene I'm amazed again that they got Jim Broadbent for this show, and got him just to play a part that so far could charitably described as "functional." There's always been a lot of wasted talent on display in Game of Thrones, but Jim Broadbent is by far the most blatant display yet.
If you need someone to play that character, and you can get Jim Broadbent, why wouldn't you?
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  #2702  
Old 07-31-2017, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
(Why exactly did one group of boats beat the other group of boats? The bigger picture there was never clearly demonstrated.)
Euron's fleet is just magic I guess? He somehow manages to smash Yara's Iron Fleet presumably just outside Blackwater Bay, bring his prisoners to the Red Keep, then hightail it to Casterly Rock in time to blow away the remainder of Dany's fleet. Never mind how he acquired that many ships in what appears to be a relatively short amount of time.He's the new Ramsey.

Things feel very contrived this season. It's like the opposite problem Martin appears to be having...
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  #2703  
Old 07-31-2017, 11:57 AM
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Had no idea this season was only 7 eps long. I think it's for the best. I agree this season has been contrived and fanservice-y, (the Sand Snakes' deaths were simultaneously horrible and weirdly tasteful) but the showrunners have gotta finish this within the next two years. I don't think it would be too different if this season were 10 episodes instead of 7.

I really worry about Sansa. Stop ably batting away Littlefinger with your wit; start murdering him with one of your soldiers!
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  #2704  
Old 07-31-2017, 12:54 PM
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The North kind of needs the Vale's soldiers to have a chance, not sure what killing Littlefinger would do to that.
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  #2705  
Old 07-31-2017, 12:57 PM
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I don't even remember what the Vale is. (I'm unsuitable to be a ruler on GoT's planet or any other)
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  #2706  
Old 07-31-2017, 01:00 PM
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The place with the castle that's way up in the mountains and they like throwing people off.
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  #2707  
Old 07-31-2017, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrenaline View Post
If you need someone to play that character, and you can get Jim Broadbent, why wouldn't you?
To be clear: This was not a complaint. I'm just astounded that the show's longstanding tradition of wasted talent has reached such dazzling new heights.
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  #2708  
Old 07-31-2017, 01:12 PM
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Plausible scenario: Jim Broadbent is a huge GoT fan and asked if he couldn't please please please get a role somewhere, and this was all they had, like the time John Hodgman played a random unfunny surgeon on Battlestar Galactica for ten seconds.
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  #2709  
Old 07-31-2017, 01:16 PM
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I fucking applauded at Lady Olenna's last words. I was positive what she was going to say as soon as I realized this was going to be her last stand. Not sure what message Jaime is going to get from them though. He talked his sister into giving Olenna a merciful death, and then finds out she's his son's killer. That can't be a good lesson for the only person who seems to have a remote chance of holding Cersei back.

As for any other fallout from that, I'm not sure if it changes anyone's relationship with Tyrion, since Jaime was always sure of his brother's innocence in Joffrey's death, and even if Cersei cared about Tyrion being innocent (she sure as fuck does not), he's already been declared guilty by the Gods, so there can't be any public forgiveness regardless of them now knowing who the true culprit was.


I'm not sure how much I like Euron's invincible teleporting armada. I don't even understand how they got that built, let alone able to move it everywhere basically instantly (though travel time has always been a bit weird in this show).

I'm pretty sure there's a spy in Dany's circle, since Cersei is a little too good at anticipating Dany's plans. I think that Varys is a red herring though, and may actually end up wrongfully executed, while the actual spy will be someone else (The flaw in my supposition is that I honestly can't imagine who else it might be, since there aren't any other characters in Dany's inner circle other than Missandei and Tyrion.)


I don't know what the deal was with Bran and Sansa, though I've seen it speculated that he wasn't seeing her marriage to Ramsey, but a marriage still to come. Dude's already a little unstuck in time, and the fact he didn't just come out and say "the previous Three-eyed raven taught me" seemed a little suspicious to me.
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  #2710  
Old 07-31-2017, 01:17 PM
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I think Max von Sydow was more wasted, personally. Ebrose has some amount of wit to him.
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  #2711  
Old 07-31-2017, 01:22 PM
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So what's the deal with Melisandre's statement that both she and Varys must die in Westeros? Any popular theories? Was that in reference to something that's already happened in the show that I forgot, or just setting up something in the future?
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  #2712  
Old 07-31-2017, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regulus View Post
Euron's fleet is just magic I guess? He somehow manages to smash Yara's Iron Fleet presumably just outside Blackwater Bay, bring his prisoners to the Red Keep, then hightail it to Casterly Rock in time to blow away the remainder of Dany's fleet. Never mind how he acquired that many ships in what appears to be a relatively short amount of time.He's the new Ramsey.

Things feel very contrived this season. It's like the opposite problem Martin appears to be having...
Maybe he split the fleet - bulk to defeat the more brauny Yara fleet,
and a smaller remainder to destroy the crappy Unsullied vessels.
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  #2713  
Old 07-31-2017, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrenaline View Post
I think Max von Sydow was more wasted, personally. Ebrose has some amount of wit to him.
Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje was greatest waste as rando slaver in 1 ep in s5
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  #2714  
Old 07-31-2017, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Adam View Post

As for any other fallout from that, I'm not sure if it changes anyone's relationship with Tyrion, since Jaime was always sure of his brother's innocence in Joffrey's death, and even if Cersei cared about Tyrion being innocent (she sure as fuck does not), he's already been declared guilty by the Gods, so there can't be any public forgiveness regardless of them now knowing who the true culprit was.
Well, there's also the whole "killing their dad" thing which I can't see Tyrion being pardoned of any time soon.
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  #2715  
Old 07-31-2017, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krelbel View Post
So what's the deal with Melisandre's statement that both she and Varys must die in Westeros? Any popular theories? Was that in reference to something that's already happened in the show that I forgot, or just setting up something in the future?
They honor the Red God and the Red God demands sacrifice. This is weakened in the show by Red Priest Thoros' survival, but every time I look at the R'hllorian game plan I see a kamikaze mission by his faithful.
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  #2716  
Old 07-31-2017, 05:19 PM
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I kind of suspect that this version of Ebrose might also be filling in for Marwin, but I don't know.

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Originally Posted by chud_666 View Post
Maybe he split the fleet - bulk to defeat the more brauny Yara fleet,
and a smaller remainder to destroy the crappy Unsullied vessels.
Maybe, though I'm pretty sure you can see his flagship, the Silence, at Casterly Rock.
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  #2717  
Old 07-31-2017, 05:24 PM
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Euron's fleet should be named The Twenty Good Men.
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  #2718  
Old 07-31-2017, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krelbel View Post
So what's the deal with Melisandre's statement that both she and Varys must die in Westeros? Any popular theories? Was that in reference to something that's already happened in the show that I forgot, or just setting up something in the future?
TBH, I think she's just trying to psyche him out, but there's no way he survives until the end of the show is there?

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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
As for any other fallout from that, I'm not sure if it changes anyone's relationship with Tyrion, since Jaime was always sure of his brother's innocence in Joffrey's death, and even if Cersei cared about Tyrion being innocent (she sure as fuck does not), he's already been declared guilty by the Gods, so there can't be any public forgiveness regardless of them now knowing who the true culprit was.
Honestly, it shouldn't change anything. If I'm Cersei, I think to myself, "That's just a bitter old cod trying to lash out in her last minutes in the only way she can; I can't trust those words." It's not going to alleviate her hatred for her brother anyhow; he was always a monster in her eyes because to her, he killed her mother. It's more a moment for our Kingslayer to do some reflection, because now he knows without a doubt how wrong she's always been.
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  #2719  
Old 07-31-2017, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ample Vigour View Post
They honor the Red God and the Red God demands sacrifice. This is weakened in the show by Red Priest Thoros' survival, but every time I look at the R'hllorian game plan I see a kamikaze mission by his faithful.
Varys honors the Red God? After his backstory of how he was cut, iirc the book places a lot more importance about just how deeply Varys hates magic and everyone who practices it. With that background, I expected Varys to push Melisandre off the cliff himself during that scene. I completely forgot any evidence that Varys worships R'hllor anywhere in the book or show...
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  #2720  
Old 07-31-2017, 08:50 PM
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My first thought on hearing that Melisandre line was, "Why wouldn't Varys die in Westeros? This doesn't seem like it's a very good threat or a particularly impressive prediction."

For it to be threatening or psyche him out, Varys would have to have some sort of plan that involves getting out of Westeros when this is all over. Because if not, it's seems like it falls pretty flat as fortune telling and I don't see why this would phase him at all.

Mel: You're going to die somewhere on the continent where you live, right now, and also where you have lived for most of your life. Isn't it spoooooky?
Varys: No?
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  #2721  
Old 07-31-2017, 10:00 PM
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I love that line even more now. Some fabulously comic book unearned portentiousness.
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  #2722  
Old 07-31-2017, 10:00 PM
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I thought she meant it would happen sooner than he expected.
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  #2723  
Old 08-01-2017, 07:00 AM
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Yeah I think the part that spooked him was her making it sound like he was dying sooner rather than later, not what landmass it would be on.
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  #2724  
Old 08-01-2017, 07:38 AM
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Euron Greyjoy is really ruining this season for me. There's so much good dialogue going on as so many meticulously crafted threads come together... and then you have this shitty guy who uses magical plot powers to be wherever he needs to be to spoil things for everyone just because the showrunners need things to line up. He's the worst kind of villain in fiction: The one the writers seem to think is awesome even though he's done practically nothing to earn that opinion. Pairing him with Cersei (whose rise to Incredibly Bad Person In Power has been at the heart of the show for several seasons) just makes Euron's flimsiness all the more obvious.
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  #2725  
Old 08-01-2017, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krelbel View Post
Varys honors the Red God? After his backstory of how he was cut, iirc the book places a lot more importance about just how deeply Varys hates magic and everyone who practices it. With that background, I expected Varys to push Melisandre off the cliff himself during that scene. I completely forgot any evidence that Varys worships R'hllor anywhere in the book or show...
Book dude I'm certain does not, but I thought I recalled show dude saying something of the sort. My mistake.
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  #2726  
Old 08-01-2017, 02:26 PM
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I have no problem with the pace of this series since I'm watching everything with the explicit assumption that each episode is at least a month apart. Honestly, the entire series has played as such; I've been operating under the assumption that each season lasts about a year. The armies and fleets and travelers didn't teleport, the screenplay just skipped the month(s) of boring and uneventful travel to get to the important events, and then indicated that somewhat poorly if at all.

Some of it breaks down a bit when you compare different storylines - how long is Jon stuck on Dragonstone between arrival and finally talking to Dany while everything else is going on? They do seem to move at different paces sometimes - but if you just mentally add in travel times everything still flows fine and worst case scenario you get some minor inconsistencies. It's better than Feast and Dance padding out all that interstitial travel time with Nothing Much. Isn't it?
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  #2727  
Old 08-01-2017, 03:00 PM
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The armies and fleets and travelers didn't teleport, the screenplay just skipped the month(s) of boring and uneventful travel to get to the important events, and then indicated that somewhat poorly if at all.
I kind of feel like by season 7 they don't need to indicate this? We know that it takes a long time to get from X to Y in this world, because we've had multiple storylines about slow travel from X to Y. If you see someone on the other side of the continent, the fact that they are on the other side of the continent means that they had to take time to get there.

(You know this, obviously! I'm just suggesting that maybe the presence of a character in a remote location is itself a clear indication of travel time in the language of the show, not a poor or absent indication.)
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  #2728  
Old 08-01-2017, 03:27 PM
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It's not clear, though, especially with how out of sync all the storylines must necessarily be by now. Week before last, Sam pulled an all-nighter to cure Jorah's skin condition, and Jon set out from Winterfell for Dragonstone. This episode, it's the next morning for Sam and Jorah, and [length of time it takes to get from Winterfell to Dragonstone, probably more than one night] later for Jon. These events are presented within the episode as though they're happening concurrently, but they can't possibly be.
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  #2729  
Old 08-01-2017, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaeran View Post
These events are presented within the episode as though they're happening concurrently, but they can't possibly be.
What I'm saying is:

These events are not presented within the episode as if they're happening concurrently, because (as you say) it's clear that they can't possibly be.
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  #2730  
Old 08-01-2017, 03:45 PM
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I'm aware of that in spite of the presentation, not because of it. No attention is called within the show itself to the fact that these stories are all being told out of order and jumping back and forth across vague intervals of time; they are so told, and you can either notice that or not. We notice, because we're a bunch of very clever folks, but the average viewer probably does not.

Ultimately it probably doesn't matter much, but as Paul said, you have to sort of mentally apply your own formula for the passage of time in order for the story to make sense as told. That's the opposite of a thing being presented clearly.
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