The Return of Talking Time

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  #2161  
Old 08-21-2017, 02:50 PM
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S2 of TB had way better setpiece battles, and anything that heavily features Acguys is pretty tops. But thematically it was a lot worse than S1. S1 was a (ironically) more grounded conflict with a great bookend to the story arc. S2 instead gives us super-newtypes and brainwashing/mindrape, which is always gross.
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  #2162  
Old 08-21-2017, 03:18 PM
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I still haven't watched all of IBO (have seen: all of S1, some of S2) but I suppose I've enjoyed it more than its general reputation seems to entail. It might be that found family theme thing. I also really do like the mech design, like a lot.

I also liked 00 pretty well?

I gotta finish up ZZ sometime soon...
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  #2163  
Old 08-22-2017, 06:52 AM
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I think IBO has some individually good looking robot designs, but the overarching mecha design of IBO is utter ass.

The concept of having everything being derivative of a family of mecha design is something that's cool in concept but extremely poorly executed in IBO. Compare how that idea works in the Universal Century versus IBO. The Hyaku-Shiki, the Methuss, the Zeta and ZZ Gundam all extend from the same development lineage, but manage to look vastly different from each other. Then consider the mountain of Graze-variants that all look exactly the same except with slightly different shoulders and paint schemes. It's just lazy.

Likewise, having the poor and meager Tekkadan upgrading/maintaining its Gundams by scavenging for parts from fallen enemy mobile suits should have been really cool. We should have gotten some really funky design combos like you'd see when you get creative in a Front Mission game, or in ways that fostered the spirit of gunpla kit-bashing enthusiasts. Instead, we got the Barbatos with incremental, barely noticeable variations of slightly changed forearm and shoulder armors. And the need to salvage parts to survive is never given the same narrative urgency that the story's shitty melodrama is given, and what remains of that urgency quickly melts away when Tekkadan gains infinite financial backing early on.

So what you're left with, from the sum of a full 50 episode television show, is a handful of uniqueish looking Gundams, and a buttload of Graze variants. And Gundam hasn't been this bankrupt in the design department since Gundam Wing. Compare that to literally any other similar scale Gundam production ever and it's downright embarrassing. The variety we see in G-Reco's, or any UC installment's mechs puts IBO to shame. Even shows like X or 00 whose designs go relatively uncelebrated demonstrate vastly more creativity and variety than IBO's. Even a show like GBF Try - whose entire purpose as a show is incremental variation and derivative reuse of past mecha design, manages to pump out more original and interesting mecha designs than IBO.

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishi View Post
Is that the scene where Noin and Char are inexplicably chilling in a club by themselves with no music playing?
Is that where I got my favorite Wing gif from?


Last edited by WisteriaHysteria; 08-22-2017 at 08:16 AM.
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  #2164  
Old 08-22-2017, 09:03 AM
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Kids call it Zexting. They put on masks and Napoleonic uniforms and flash lights in their eyes.
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  #2165  
Old 08-22-2017, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
I think IBO has some individually good looking robot designs, but the overarching mecha design of IBO is utter ass.
You make good points. Variety in IBO is poor. But I really like the individual designs in the series - Grimgerde, for example, is probably my favorite model kit I've ever put together.



The ratio of flourish-to-practical is right about where I like it for real-type mech design. It's got a strong visual identity and a recognizable silhouette, without being overdesigned.

All that said, I don't really disagree with you. One of the things I really liked about the mech design in 00 was how each of the world factions had a very different approach to how their machines looked and worked - IBO isn't like that at all.
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  #2166  
Old 08-22-2017, 11:41 AM
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I know I've complained about Wing a lot, but it really is a beautiful trainwreck. It's 49 episodes long and yet still manages to feel like it's leaving out huge portions of the narrative. It's like a 90s OVA, except it's 49 friggan episodes! Like, the show never gives a backstory to the five main characters and how they got involved with the gundam project to begin with. One of the old scientists tells Relena that Heero was raised as an assassin, and you meet Quatre's father at one point, and I guess Wu Fei's... fellow... martial artists... show up in one episode, but other than that nothing. Did y'all know White Fang, the group that shows up in the last ten episodes to be The Real Villains, were the ones who started Operation Meteor and the Gundam project in the first place? Neither did I, until I read it on a wiki, because apparently the show couldn't even be bothered to have a throwaway line about it.

Sally Po is the only reoccurring female character who's motivation can't be summed up as "total devotion to a male character," and even then she was prepared to die for Wu Fei after talking to him for like five minutes.

OTOH I do l like the character art (though there are some design misfires Dorothy) and it has an exceptionally good soundtrack.

Also at some point I'm going to write an essay on how Xenogears owes more to Gundam Wing than it does Evangelion.
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  #2167  
Old 08-22-2017, 09:26 PM
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We have Koh Ohtani to thank for Wing at least sounding good. Same guy as Shadow of the Colossus and a bunch of kaiju movies. The Wing Orchestrated soundtrack is pretty damn sweet.
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  #2168  
Old 08-22-2017, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pajaro Pete View Post
Also at some point I'm going to write an essay on how Xenogears owes more to Gundam Wing than it does Evangelion.
That is the hottest hot take I've ever seen taken.
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  #2169  
Old 08-23-2017, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
That is the hottest hot take I've ever seen taken.
Aside from the ridiculous use of religious terminology, and like, lifting SEELE wholesale and the "sitting in chairs talking about stuff because we have no money to actually animate things" Xenogears doesn't borrow that much from Evangelion. Meanwhile you have a war between the surface dwellers and a flying city; you have Bart, who is literally just Duo with Quatre's ... setting; Elly who becomes indistinguishable from Relena during disc 2; Miang who is initially presented as a combination on Noin and Unne; Hell, even Xenogears itself looks like the white Taurus mobile suits from Wing.
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  #2170  
Old 08-23-2017, 08:17 PM
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Those are all tenuous links at best. Meanwhile, the Oedipus complex played out by Elly being the clone of Fei's mom is exactly like Rei/Shinji; Weltall goes berserk like an Eva; Miang's entire MO is basically Ritsuko's; God is an ancient alien that seeded human life and is attempting to suck all those souls back up; Xenogears is touched by the divine and becomes eternal; Fei's mother died to save him, his father sent him away to live with others; etc etc.

I will give you though, that Elly's voice actress is the same woman who did Sally Po.

Last edited by WisteriaHysteria; 08-23-2017 at 08:29 PM.
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  #2171  
Old 08-24-2017, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
Those are all tenuous links at best. Meanwhile, the Oedipus complex played out by Elly being the clone of Fei's mom is exactly like Rei/Shinji; Weltall goes berserk like an Eva; Miang's entire MO is basically Ritsuko's; God is an ancient alien that seeded human life and is attempting to suck all those souls back up; Xenogears is touched by the divine and becomes eternal; Fei's mother died to save him, his father sent him away to live with others; etc etc.

I will give you though, that Elly's voice actress is the same woman who did Sally Po.
Miang is not even remotely like Ritsuko? And Weltall doesn't go berserk, Id resurfaces and kills people... which is literally the power of the Zero System installed in Wing Zero and Epyon. "Shinji's mom died to save him" is a pretty big stretch.

And Deus is Lavos, not Lilith, right down to being a turtle ass looking mofo
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  #2172  
Old 08-25-2017, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pajaro Pete View Post
. Did y'all know White Fang, the group that shows up in the last ten episodes to be The Real Villains, were the ones who started Operation Meteor and the Gundam project in the first place? Neither did I, until I read it on a wiki, because apparently the show couldn't even be bothered to have a throwaway line about it.
There's totally a throwaway line when Old Revolutionary Jerk meets Science Assholes in the finale.

I mean it's super easy to miss because it comes out of nowhere and the mind is already reeling from the nonstop stream of bullshit.
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  #2173  
Old 08-25-2017, 12:49 PM
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Gundam Build Fighters: GM's Counterattack came out...!



It's... pretty good! Functionally, it's the exact same thing as Try Island Wars - one last hurrah with the cast of GBF in a contrived excuse for a big gunpla melee with most of the cast we care about. And it's heavily laiden with fanservice for that show. There's also a scene where an Ennil El look alike has a Dead or Alive Xtreme Volleyball moment while dressed up in Victory Gundam swimsuits in a very -moment so there's that. It's nice though that this OVA had a little bit more of a substancial plot versus Try Island Wars. "GM's Counterattack" it turns out stands for the Gunpla Mafia - so that GBF plotline gets a re-explored a bit, and is a lot better excuse than the nonsense that was Try Island Wars. The battles themselves were on par for what you'd get in GBF/Try. And the characters are just as dull/boring as GBF. My only real complaints, besides Ennil El, is that Mao's gunpla is boring and derivative, and also the Reiji-asspull at the end. Def worth watching. I just wish they'd like, you know, make a full sequel show instead of these sporadic OVAs that barely whet the tongue.

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Originally Posted by Pajaro Pete View Post
Miang is not even remotely like Ritsuko? And Weltall doesn't go berserk, Id resurfaces and kills people... which is literally the power of the Zero System installed in Wing Zero and Epyon. "Shinji's mom died to save him" is a pretty big stretch.

And Deus is Lavos, not Lilith, right down to being a turtle ass looking mofo
Nonsense!
Miang and Ritsuko look and act like different characters, but I was making the point that they share similar modus operandi and roles on the plot. They're sultry figures who have their own end goals separate from the people they're pretending to serve, while sexing them one day and callously dumping them the next. They're both researchers experimenting on kids. Miang and Ritsuko's origins and personal motivators are obviously leagues apart, but I think there's enough similarities worth drawing parallels.

Weltall absolutely goes berserk and we see it move of its own volition several times in the same way Evas do. And Gears all are powered by Deus, which lends itself to Eva parallels a lot more than whatever is happening in Gundam Wing.

Shinji's mom dies when Shinji is young just like Fei and forms the initial trauma that breaks both of their characters. Reminder that Yui Ikari chose to be absorbed into Unit-01 for Shinji's sake, wanting to be the catalyst to create a better world for her son.

Deus changes forms several times during the course of the game, mirroring the development of a person from embryo, to a baby, to a man. Which is similar but different. Either way that's ignoring the point that the Kadomony system was basically human instrumentality, and I dunno how any of this helps your Wing parallel.
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  #2174  
Old 08-26-2017, 10:30 PM
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Wached the Build Fighters OVA, it was good silly fun. I'd forgotten about some of those dangling plot threads from the original, nice to wrap that up. And yes, Burning Finger *does* belong in every gunpla show.

When they got to the forest of roses and the evil pretty boy for a moment I thought they were actually going to pull out Gundam Rose also, but ah well, Baund Doc is pretty cool too. And lol @ Psycho GM end boss.
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  #2175  
Old 09-08-2017, 02:19 AM
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GBF Battlogue Episode 2:



I liked this one a lot more than the last. Drop the silly/meaningless AI battles and let Build Fighters characters duke it out. The Minato/Yuuma rivalry in Try was always entertaining but woefully under explored, so it was fun to see it given another go for 10 minutes. Also I need a Dryon Drei model kit in my life like right naoooooo
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  #2176  
Old 09-10-2017, 04:24 PM
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Gundam 0080 BDs came out in Japan a little bit ago. It'll probably take a long-ass time for them to come out officially in NA, but people are in for a treat when they do come. So far they look really effin' good. Seems like it was originally mastered on 35mm film, because the BDs look so, so crisp.
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  #2177  
Old 09-11-2017, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
GBF Battlogue Episode 2:
I liked this one a lot more than the last. Drop the silly/meaningless AI battles and let Build Fighters characters duke it out. The Minato/Yuuma rivalry in Try was always entertaining but woefully under explored, so it was fun to see it given another go for 10 minutes. Also I need a Dryon Drei model kit in my life like right naoooooo
Ahahaha the straight up promo for Diver City where they're putting up a life size Unicorn right now.
I also need a Dryon Drei.
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  #2178  
Old 09-25-2017, 01:34 AM
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Tomino says he has storyboarded a 5 movie re-telling of G Reco. He hasn't convinced Sunrise to let him make it, though.
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  #2179  
Old 09-25-2017, 02:31 AM
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He turned the 43 episode 0079 and 50 episode Zeta into 3 movies; turned the 49 episode Turn-A into 2; whatever F-91 was supposed to be into 1... and he just thinks they'll totally bite on turning G-Reco into 5??? He'd probably stand a better chance just turning it into a manga instead.
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  #2180  
Old 09-25-2017, 02:34 AM
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Quote:
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he just thinks they'll totally bite on turning G-Reco into 5???
No, he does not.

He sounds pessimistic about it happening.
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  #2181  
Old 09-25-2017, 03:01 PM
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I know Wist disagrees on the pacing, but I stand by my feeling that it was so damn cramped in its TV run that it could probably *use* five. (Not that I have any expectation it'll ever happen either.)
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  #2182  
Old 09-25-2017, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
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No, he does not.

He sounds pessimistic about it happening.
My point is, why would he even storyboard 5 in the first place. What in his like 60 year history of making anime led him to believe that his time was put to good use doing something that nobody in a million years would let him actually do?

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I know Wist disagrees on the pacing, but I stand by my feeling that it was so damn cramped in its TV run that it could probably *use* five. (Not that I have any expectation it'll ever happen either.)
The thing about movie compilations is that even with 5, I don't think that would necessarily represent an improvement on the pacing either. The 25 episode TV show was roughly 10 hours in length. 5 movies then, if they're 2 hours long (which is pretty damned long for anime-films) would then be... roughly 10 hours of content. I liked G-Reco for what it was; I thought the way it told its story reinforced the themes its story was trying to tell, and made the show engaging on a level most passive entertainment isn't. But if you're going to repackage the story so that people who found the original show impenetrable can come in and get what's going on, then making movies like this isn't the answer. G-Reco needed another cour's worth of show to let certain scenes breathe and sustain a slower pace of narrative so that people wouldn't have sensory overload. Either that, or fundamentally rewrite the story so that the narrative isn't delivered passively through action, and the audience can have its hand held more.
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  #2183  
Old 09-25-2017, 04:49 PM
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I'm not seeing a universe where Tomino has so many demands on his time at this point that he can't commit some time to doing something because it is what he wants to do. Sometimes you do things that you want to even though you know they won't go anywhere.
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  #2184  
Old 09-25-2017, 04:54 PM
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Forget the G-Reco movies. Give me a slice-of-life spin-off starring Raraiya, Kerbes and Ringo.

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  #2185  
Old 10-01-2017, 10:12 PM
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Watched The Origin Vol 5. Plenty of pretty stuff (though the CG does get a bit excessive in places), but as always it'd be nice if this retelling had any sense of pace or structure. It's still just kinda scenes strung together. Also starts with a 10 minute recap that's all over the place, but the thing's an hour and a half long so whatever. This one covers some Kai shenanigans, the actual beginning of the war and the colony drop, riots on Texas colony, and the first part of the battle of Loum. And still manages to end in the middle of things despite its length. Have they said how many of these they're planning to drip out?

Anyway, as a show it's not gonna dethrone anyone's faves, but if you think of it as a very shiny One Year War documentary sequence with a few character vignettes thrown in, it's serviceable.
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  #2186  
Old 10-07-2017, 10:50 PM
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Oh no, the third episode of Build Fighters Battlogue is a Fumina and Gyanko magical mecha musume fantasy parody.

....uh,, I'm just gonna have to not-live blog this now.

lol, "the rack"
lolol, the curse of the leftover Acguy parts from Beargguy kits!
lololol, the super-power of multicolor molding in my heart!

And then... a plug for LED-unit gunpla. And of course for the Winning Fumina kit. And... showing off the actual Gunpla factory in Shizuoka. Wow. And... recycled plastic Gunpla kits? I guess that's a thing now?

Well that's all in character for the show.

Anyway, I was worried that would just be completely embarrassing, but it was... kind of great? And also embarrassing.

And successfully made me feel bad about all my un-built gunpla kits.
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  #2187  
Old 10-08-2017, 11:36 PM
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Origin V sure was more Origin. Except it feels even more rudderless than I-IV since there's no majority perspective we follow. I-IV at least had Char/Sayla as an anchor. Getting to see different angles of UC society and the lead up to the original show is great. But the format and focus of the narrative here is severely lacking. Still, it's leagues better and more entertaining than what Banrise has been up to lately in the name of Gundam.

I will mostly agree with what you've said Kirin about Battlogue #3. Pretty good fun. Feels very much like a classic anime OVA omake thing you used to see all the time. Also, beargguys & petitgguys are the best. I just wish I could recycle my leftover parts and runners. I love recycling! But I'm pretty sure no recycling center near me would know what to do with them. I have like three going on four giant bags of leftover runners that are destined for the landfill and now I feel really sad. Also also, Command Fumina and Dom Gyanko are terrible, intensely lazy things.
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  #2188  
Old 10-13-2017, 01:02 AM
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This is not quite TV & Film and maybe belongs in the manga thread, but I figure it would be better appreciated here. And also by my reckoning, there's a really good chance this becomes an OVA series.

MOBILE SUIT MOON GUNDAM - A brand new manga that just started up.



One chapter in, and it's amazing...! It's a manga about Moon Moon from ZZ Gundam. It's like the universe made a manga just for me, and it has the bonus of flipping the bird to all the ZZ haters out there. It starts out in Moon Moon a few years after the Neo Zeon War, and a year before CCA. And it follows a teenager who is curious about the outside world and technology despite his society's beliefs. There's this awesome moment where the kid has a flashback to the events of Double Zeta:



And I'm just like hnnnnngggnnnn...! Sarasa, Amuro, Mineva Zabi, and some Titans remnants have all shown up in the first chapter. It's being written by the guy who wrote Gundam Unicorn. Apparently this was the story idea he had before Unicorn, but it got shot down. So now after Unicorn's success it seems like Banrise is giving him a longer leash. Also, the mecha designer is the guy from G-Reco, so everything robotic looks awesome:



I am super pumped about this. The comic looks great. It reads great. I can't wait to read more. I can't wait until it gets animated and some plamo made. Maaaan I want that weird Mk II variant gundam so bad. And Amuro's not!Dijeh that looks like a Dijeh made a baby with the G-Arcane is just pure sex. The story will probably be a zero sum thing like all good UC side stories, but w/e. An offshoot from ZZ Gundam instead of yet another OYW retread is amazing to me. ZZ doesn't get enough love.

If anyone cares to, here's an interview with the writer about this that some internet-person translated.
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  #2189  
Old 10-15-2017, 09:43 PM
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Even without having watched ZZ yet, that sounds pretty cool. Hopefully it'll get animated and I'll see it! I don't really have any setup I like for reading scanlations.
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  #2190  
Old 10-15-2017, 10:37 PM
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You really should watch ZZ if you have the time to! It's so much better than its reputation. It's out on BDs now domestically, and the DVD version is available to watch for free on the gundam.info youtube channel.
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