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  #31  
Old 11-10-2008, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Kishi View Post
Human Fixedamentality Project
You're Doing It Wrong™.

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Originally Posted by reibeatall View Post
I've been meaning to rewatch the series, but it's hard to find time.
One day when I was very sick, I sat down and watched the whole damn thing. If you're ever home sick from work one day, I recommend you do the same.
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  #32  
Old 11-10-2008, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by fanboymaster View Post
Because it comes across to me as several different kinds of ridiculous in nearly every facet.



Really, I could see it being interesting if Kaworu was developed at all beyond "I love you Shinji, I alone understand you" but, really, it isn't. My memory is a tad fuzzy though because it has been years since I subjected myself to the series conclusion.
Read the comic.
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  #33  
Old 11-10-2008, 03:13 PM
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I've read snippets of it and they generally seemed better, maybe next time I decide to see if my opinion of the series has changed.
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  #34  
Old 11-10-2008, 03:24 PM
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My favorite thing about Evangelion is the goofy crap that Gainax keeps tossing out as a spin-off or alternate story or whatever. For example.

Yes, those are from real things.
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  #35  
Old 11-10-2008, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by SpoonyGundam View Post
My favorite thing about Evangelion is the goofy crap that Gainax keeps tossing out as a spin-off or alternate story or whatever. For example.

Yes, those are from real things.
Oh my, that Rei game sounds far more interesting than it should.
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  #36  
Old 11-10-2008, 04:33 PM
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The idea that the pilots felt everything that happened to the Evas shattered the sense of giant robots as powerful, indestructible armor that I'd had since the days of Tranzor Z. If Evangelion did one thing right, it made the main characters' pilot experiences intense, desperate, threatening, and real to me to a degree practically nothing else has. I still remember the pounding in my chest watching that first five minutes of Episode 2. That same concept made Asuka's death in EoE one of the most horrifying, gut-wrenching things I've ever watched. It is one of a very few things I have vowed to only ever see once.
This is another reason why I still like Evangelion--the battles are visceral and downright terrifying. Many of the fights are knock down drag out matches through hand to hand combat. It's completely brutal; ripping apart each other's limbs and stabbing and strangling. And through it all the children FEEL it as if it were their own limbs through the mind link.
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  #37  
Old 11-10-2008, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by onimaruxlr View Post
G Gundam does this too but the fact is kind of undermined that all of it's pilots are demiGod martial artist supermen.
Quite. And the fact that both parties in most of the series' fights feel pain equally takes a good bit of the terror out of it. As do the Mobile Trace feedback sparklies that indicate angle of attack.
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  #38  
Old 11-10-2008, 06:33 PM
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And through it all the children FEEL it as if it were their own limbs through the mind link.
I'm not feeling it. Pound away giant robots that bleed!
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  #39  
Old 11-10-2008, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by gamin View Post
This is another reason why I still like Evangelion--the battles are visceral and downright terrifying. Many of the fights are knock down drag out matches through hand to hand combat. It's completely brutal; ripping apart each other's limbs and stabbing and strangling. And through it all the children FEEL it as if it were their own limbs through the mind link.
I think Episode 18 is the best part of the anime for this reason - it's just so tense and terrifying. Of course, the censors and sponsors were not happy about that bit of the show. But after that moment with Eva Unit 03, Eva really turns horrific.
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  #40  
Old 11-10-2008, 07:49 PM
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the only battles I remember in eva involved lots of people sitting in a command room talking about it, while the robots slowly acted because they were tied to a power cord.

Now I'm really intrigued.
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  #41  
Old 11-10-2008, 08:09 PM
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Revisit of the first two episodes is up.

http://thingthatdontsuck.blogspot.com/
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  #42  
Old 11-10-2008, 08:11 PM
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The problem with the anime series isn't just that Shinji is a whiny bitch, but that he's an uninteresting whiny bitch. [...] The manga version of Eva addresses this problem by making Shinji a much more realistic and appealing whiny bitch. He's sarcastic and somewhat mean-spirited and initially pushes back against authority a lot more.
Though it's too early to tell, the Rebuild movies show some promise in this department. There's one tiny but significant change in the scene after Shinji goes on his mopey walk around town - in the anime, Misato slaps him and he does his usual imitation of a sack of flour; in the movie, he gives this brief, knowing smirk. It's about ten frames of animation that contain more genuine character reaction than that entire episode of the series.
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  #43  
Old 11-10-2008, 08:36 PM
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I can’t help but feel that the antipathy towards Shinji is due more towards Anime fans' own insecurities then any flaws in the characterization.
Thank you, EDJ, for summing up my feelings so succinctly. I cringe everytime someone complains that Shinji is just "a whiny little bitch," ignoring the nuances that, I feel, make him a compelling character.
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  #44  
Old 11-10-2008, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by JCDenton View Post
Thank you, EDJ, for summing up my feelings so succinctly. I cringe everytime someone complains that Shinji is just "a whiny little bitch," ignoring the nuances that, I feel, make him a compelling character.
I guess I must be oppressing some serious insecurities, because I think that Shinji starts the show as a mildly annoying kid and ends it as one of the most unappealing protagonists ever. I love the show, but Shinji is just bleh.
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  #45  
Old 11-10-2008, 08:47 PM
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That sentence maybe comes off a little harsher then intended.

But like I say, the fact that he not the genre hero is what pisses people off.

It's like my old priest used to say, "The ones we hate are the ones who remind us the most of ourselves."
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  #46  
Old 11-10-2008, 08:51 PM
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But like I say, the fact that he not the genre hero is what pisses people off.
No.
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  #47  
Old 11-10-2008, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Azar View Post
I guess I must be oppressing some serious insecurities, because I think that Shinji starts the show as a mildly annoying kid and ends it as one of the most unappealing protagonists ever. I love the show, but Shinji is just bleh.
Sorry, bad moods and internet do not mix. Apologies.
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  #48  
Old 11-10-2008, 09:29 PM
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No offense taken. I'd certainly believe there are nuances to the character that I never picked up on or simply forgot before I'd believe that I dislike a weak, angsty character because of some subconscious insecurities. Can't say I buy that one at all.
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  #49  
Old 11-10-2008, 09:50 PM
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Like I said sorry if that came out harsher then I intended.
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  #50  
Old 11-10-2008, 09:51 PM
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To a point, sure. It's rather unbelievable that he would stick it out and continue to whine about his insecurities for so long rather than just get out of there. But even if you're accepting it as a realistic way for the character to act, that doesn't make him a good protagonist.
And where would he go? It's a semi-postapocalyptic world world, his entire family (the distant father figure, the surrogate mother/love interest figure) is where he is now. This kid seems to have had no friends before going there.

He's not supposed to be a good protagonist. He's broken deep down inside, he has good reasons for his insecurities, and as much as he does whine...at least some of the time he somehow does the right thing despite it all. And sometime he fails, badly. I've met people like this, who can't move past their insecurities.

The anime doesn't dwell on his issues, it just takes them as a given; apparently the manga verision actually fleshes this out?
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  #51  
Old 11-10-2008, 09:55 PM
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Here's what I don't like about Shinji:

I don't really fucking know. He is what he is.
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  #52  
Old 11-10-2008, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by dwolfe View Post
And where would he go? It's a semi-postapocalyptic world world, his entire family (the distant father figure, the surrogate mother/love interest figure) is where he is now. This kid seems to have had no friends before going there.

He's not supposed to be a good protagonist. He's broken deep down inside, he has good reasons for his insecurities, and as much as he does whine...at least some of the time he somehow does the right thing despite it all. And sometime he fails, badly. I've met people like this, who can't move past their insecurities.
EXACTLY

BTW: Any comments on what I actually wrote (either article) is greatly appreciated.
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  #53  
Old 11-10-2008, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Evil Dead Junkie View Post
EXACTLY

BTW: Any comments on what I actually wrote (either article) is greatly appreciated.
Great write-ups so far. Interesting comparison to Bergman, though my memory of his movies is a bit spotty at the moment, I should probably revisit some of his stuff someday. You really hit on something important in the first post though, the way that Evangelion paved the way for your interests in various other semi-related things. I'm very sure that something similar happened when I was first watching this, and it's great to see someone else express that.
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  #54  
Old 11-10-2008, 10:58 PM
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Good read as always, but:

Quote:
it sees it’s prey and bludgeon’s it
Come on, dude. I don't think I've seen anyone ever do the second one before.
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  #55  
Old 11-11-2008, 02:28 AM
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Shinji is the otaku as anti-hero.

It's disturbingly easy for me to identify with him.
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  #56  
Old 11-11-2008, 02:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Adrenaline View Post
Good read as always, but:



Come on, dude. I don't think I've seen anyone ever do the second one before.
Either this is comment on my poor grammar or you didn't watch the video clip.
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  #57  
Old 11-11-2008, 03:02 AM
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I'm a pretty strident apologist for Evangelion.

I think people getting hung up on the Christian imagery in Evangelion are missing the point in the same way that an ancient Greek person might be irritated by the depiction of Thor in Marvel comics. It's clear that the Chrstian imagery is being invoked atmospherically rather than literally. Don't get hung up on trying to make sense of it. The creators aren't being pretentions. Just the opposite: They don't care about these symbols you have a cultural interest in at all, and they're being flippant with them, not invoking them to create some sort of false sense that the series is deep.

I love Shinji (and sometimes I even love to hate him), but I don't care enough to argue about him. If he annoys you as a character, the series isn't for you. I'm fine with that.

I think it's best to watch Evangelion a lot like you might watch something by David Lynch. If you get too hung up on trying to untangle the mysteries, you'll be dissapointed. If you are able to sit back, enjoy the craziness, and appreciate the atmosphere and the imagery, it's awesome.

Also, to clarify: I don't think Evangelion is on par with Lynch or that they're similar as works of art/entertainment/whatever. I'm only saying that strategies for enjoying them are similar.
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  #58  
Old 11-11-2008, 03:09 AM
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I would pretty much have no problem with Eva if it weren't for the technobabble scenes.
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  #59  
Old 11-11-2008, 03:31 AM
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See I don't think you can eliminate the whole Christian imagery so easily. Espescially when you get to SEELE. Basically your only hope for knowing what the fuck is going on is some knowledge of Christian Mythology.

I think you hit it on the head with the Thor comparison, it's not essential, but knowing some stuff does enhance your experience.
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  #60  
Old 11-11-2008, 03:47 AM
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I would pretty much have no problem with Eva if it weren't for the technobabble scenes.
I feel pretty much the same way. I recognize every one of its flaws, but at the same time I can't help but love it more than most other anime series I've seen.
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