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  #1  
Old 11-09-2008, 10:55 PM
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Default Revisit Evangelion

So not to spam but I'm planning to revisit Neon Genesis Evangelion. I was just curious if anyone wanted to follow along.

http://thingthatdontsuck.blogspot.com/
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  #2  
Old 11-09-2008, 11:26 PM
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Do it. I re-watched Eva last year with some friends who had never seen it and it was hilarious fun. Especially the movie.

I view Eva nowadays in the same way I view Metal Gear (as helped by this site; I think it was alexb that pointed this out about Metal Gear?): When you strip away the horrible pacing and the typical anime nonsense and the downright idiotic philosophical musings, there is an alright story there. Shinji could have been a Hamlet-esque tragic character in the hands of a more skilled storyteller.

EDIT: Alternatively, you could check out Serial Experiments Lain. It's basically the same story as Evangelion, but executed much more cleanly and in half the time. Still full of silly philosophy, though.
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  #3  
Old 11-09-2008, 11:33 PM
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Yeah, I'm hoping to still like it, the first two episodes held up surprisingly well.

I've seen Lain before good stuff.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:34 PM
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You should just wait and watch the new versions.
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  #5  
Old 11-09-2008, 11:35 PM
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Yeah I'm looking forward to those completist that I am (though not enough to buy Death And Rebirth)

Any word when The American Release will be. I'll probably actually plunk down the money to grab em.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:36 PM
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Considering part 2 isn't coming out till summer 2009, I'd say 2011 would be an optimistic guess.
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Old 11-09-2008, 11:51 PM
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I revisited the series myself a few years ago with the Platinum DVD release of the show.

I still like it. The whole series is uneven and unwieldy as hell, but it manages to stay in one piece through masterful direction. I love the layouts of the shots in this show, and the editing and the way it's cut together gives tremendous strength to scenes that would otherwise flounder in angst or melodrama.

Hideaki Anno is a bastard to his characters, forcing them through every hell imaginable. I find it fascinating, just the way that everything breaks apart during the final half, and cause and effect compound on the characters, bringing them against each other and destroying them.

With better overall pacing and fewer anime cliches, Evangelion could've been top grade tragedy. As it stands, it's still interesting, so long as you can emphasize with a main character with a hard lot that hates himself.

Last edited by gamin; 11-10-2008 at 12:12 AM.
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  #8  
Old 11-10-2008, 12:10 AM
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I don't understand the hate Eva gets from some people. Most of its problems can be found in most anime, and the parts that are good are really special.
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Old 11-10-2008, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrenaline View Post
and the parts that are good are really special.
That's what I'm counting on. I'm looking forward to this. I bought the platinum boxset when it came out, but it's just something I've never had the time to watch all the way through again. I've showed EoE to some stoner friends of mine from time to time, always presaged by "You Guys want to see something REALLY fucked up."

But I haven't seen the series as a whole in eight years, so yeah should be good.
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Old 11-10-2008, 12:50 AM
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I still have the original boxset lying around somewhere. I'm sort of curious myself now to see if my perspective on it has changed significantly or anything.
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Old 11-10-2008, 01:08 AM
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Not to toot my own horn (much) but I highly recommending using the Thumbnail Theatres as a chaser for each episode.
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  #12  
Old 11-10-2008, 01:20 AM
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Hated it the first time I watched it. Can't stand the thought of seeing it again. What's that? Your parade is getting damp? I'll go ahead and show myself out.
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  #13  
Old 11-10-2008, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrenaline View Post
I don't understand the hate Eva gets from some people. Most of its problems can be found in most anime, and the parts that are good are really special.
I think the biggest problem is Shinji. There are ways to make a main character that is tragic, conflicted, or weak but still appealing in some way. Shinji is kind of just a whiny little bitch.

I think I'm probably in the minority of people who really love End of Evangelion, mostly because it portrays Shinji as the weaklink he is, but in the end he finally does something. The apocalyptic/reborn world thing is pretty awesome, and the surviving half of Rei's face lying slanted in the sea of the new world is incredibly iconic.

And Asuka has some great scenes. It's just all good, really.
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  #14  
Old 11-10-2008, 01:30 AM
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I think the biggest problem is Shinji. There are ways to make a main character that is tragic, conflicted, or weak but still appealing in some way. Shinji is kind of just a whiny little bitch.
Yeah I kind of get into this in the first episode write up. I don't buy it, it's easy to say that, but really take a depressive fourteen year old with abandonment issues, put him at the whims of distant authority figures and cruel peers, and then put the literal weight of the world on his shoulders, and how do you expect him to act?

It'd be unrealistic to portray him as otherwise. That's what I like about Eva, and dislike most Mech shows, it's not the typical power fantasy.
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  #15  
Old 11-10-2008, 01:40 AM
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Quote:
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Shinji is kind of just a whiny little bitch.
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  #16  
Old 11-10-2008, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Evil Dead Junkie View Post
Yeah I kind of get into this in the first episode write up. I don't buy it, it's easy to say that, but really take a depressive fourteen year old with abandonment issues, put him at the whims of distant authority figures and cruel peers, and then put the literal weight of the world on his shoulders, and how do you expect him to act?

It'd be unrealistic to portray him as otherwise. That's what I like about Eva, and dislike most Mech shows, it's not the typical power fantasy.
To a point, sure. It's rather unbelievable that he would stick it out and continue to whine about his insecurities for so long rather than just get out of there. But even if you're accepting it as a realistic way for the character to act, that doesn't make him a good protagonist.
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>_>
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  #17  
Old 11-10-2008, 02:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Dead Junkie View Post
It'd be unrealistic to portray him as otherwise. That's what I like about Eva, and dislike most Mech shows, it's not the typical power fantasy.
The problem with the anime series isn't just that Shinji is a whiny bitch, but that he's an uninteresting whiny bitch. He's not just uncooperative and spineless, but he's also stoic and anti-social and just plain dull. There's a certain art to making an unlikeable protagonist fun to watch, and it just doesn't happen with Shinji (or at least it doesn't happen well). The manga version of Eva addresses this problem by making Shinji a much more realistic and appealing whiny bitch. He's sarcastic and somewhat mean-spirited and initially pushes back against authority a lot more. He also undergoes a much better development arc than in the anime series.
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  #18  
Old 11-10-2008, 02:38 AM
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Once again uncooperative and anti social, is a pretty good way to describe most fourteen year olds.

He's a kid. How much confidence did you have at that age. Most fourteen year olds do what they're told, they're just old enough to grumble about it.

I don't know I could always relate, feeling lonely, isolated, with a heaping side of self pity I think describes alot of kid's at that age. And that's what really struck me watching the first episode again, Shinji really is a kid.
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  #19  
Old 11-10-2008, 07:22 AM
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My opinion of Eva is a brilliant show unfortunately hampered by budget issues, unnecessary and pointless Christian symbolism, and too much energy spent on being as obtuse as possible. I think the first thing gets the most press, the second bothers me the most (seriously, there's enough going on in Eva without giving us all these red herrings to fret over), and the third contributes to people's poor opinion of Shinji - he's the character who knows the LEAST about what's going on and because the audience is mostly shackled to his perspective they don't know what's going on either.
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Old 11-10-2008, 08:07 AM
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My experience with this show was watching dubbed VHS tapes that my friend owned, during one summer in high school when I watched his dog. He didn't have all of the episodes.

I decided 3/4 of the way through that it wasn't for me, but I feel like I should grab some copies of the sub, be a bigger man, and see it all (I know many friends who'd be all too happy to lend).

That probably won't happen though.
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  #21  
Old 11-10-2008, 08:16 AM
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The only way to finish the series is to watch the last two episodes and mix in End of Evangelion. It's a great compliment to the ending.

I've been meaning to rewatch the series, but it's hard to find time.
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  #22  
Old 11-10-2008, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reibeatall View Post
The only way to finish the series is to watch the last two episodes and mix in End of Evangelion. It's a great compliment to the ending.

I've been meaning to rewatch the series, but it's hard to find time.
Should this also include mixed drinks?
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  #23  
Old 11-10-2008, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Evil Dead Junkie View Post
Yeah, I'm hoping to still like it, the first two episodes held up surprisingly well.
The first two episodes are amazing, and I say that as someone who has become quite disillusioned with Evangelion since I first saw it. I knew practically nothing about the show at the time I saw those and they convinced me to see the rest; in the same situation I'm sure I'd do it again today.

The idea that the pilots felt everything that happened to the Evas shattered the sense of giant robots as powerful, indestructible armor that I'd had since the days of Tranzor Z. If Evangelion did one thing right, it made the main characters' pilot experiences intense, desperate, threatening, and real to me to a degree practically nothing else has. I still remember the pounding in my chest watching that first five minutes of Episode 2. That same concept made Asuka's death in EoE one of the most horrifying, gut-wrenching things I've ever watched. It is one of a very few things I have vowed to only ever see once.
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Old 11-10-2008, 12:06 PM
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I've watched the beginning 2/3rds of Eva many times, and own the platinum edition. I always manage to lose interest at the point where it starts to get seriously headtrippy, but I'm satisfied with the mech show that it is before that point.
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Old 11-10-2008, 12:28 PM
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My friend claimed that EVA was actually structured extremely carefully and tightly around existential philosophy. I never actually heard the explanation from him because I hadn't seen it yet at that point and didn't want SPOILARS, but I should go back and have him tell me about it one of these days.
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  #26  
Old 11-10-2008, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul le Fou
My friend claimed that EVA was actually structured extremely carefully and tightly around existential philosophy
It's a philosophy I don't have much patience for but it would be interesting to see how this is so.

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OFF TOPIC:

I didn't see that post on Gangs of New York and the elections. I think I left a comment confirming that GoNY is indeed awesome.

"Why don't you burn him and see if his ashes turn green?" XD
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  #27  
Old 11-10-2008, 01:38 PM
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Every time I rewatch Eva in its entirety, my hatred is given new life. Every second wasted moving toward what is unquestionably my least favorite series ending ever is a reason to end all rational thought and go on a rampage. I can still enjoy the beginning well enough as long as I utterly dissociate it from the second half of the series, but the second "HUMAN INSTRUMENTALITY PROJECT" or "KAWORU" or "REI'S YOUR MOM, EXCEPT NOT QUITE" or "CONGRATULATIONS" enters my head, all that is left is bitter violent anger.
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Old 11-10-2008, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reibeatall View Post
The only way to finish the series is to skip the last two episodes and watch The End of Evangelion instead.
Human Fixedamentality Project


Quote:
Originally Posted by fanboymaster View Post
"KAWORU" ... bitter violent anger.
Why? The relationship between Kaworu and Shinji is one of the best parts of the series.
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  #29  
Old 11-10-2008, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
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...

Why? The relationship between Kaworu and Shinji is one of the best parts of the series.
Because it comes across to me as several different kinds of ridiculous in nearly every facet.

Quote:
Kaworu: Shinji, I love you despite having known you for all of two days.

Shinji: I accept this love without question despite every part of my life involving the love of another turning out poorly for me. Surely this time will work out.

Kaworu: I am an angel, but also human, pity me, and Shinji

Shinji: Nooo, I've killed the only person to love and understand me, leave alone the fact that this part of the plot is so poorly developed that the only emotion it inspires is bewilderment.
Really, I could see it being interesting if Kaworu was developed at all beyond "I love you Shinji, I alone understand you" but, really, it isn't. My memory is a tad fuzzy though because it has been years since I subjected myself to the series conclusion.
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  #30  
Old 11-10-2008, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Dead Junkie View Post
Yeah I kind of get into this in the first episode write up. I don't buy it, it's easy to say that, but really take a depressive fourteen year old with abandonment issues, put him at the whims of distant authority figures and cruel peers, and then put the literal weight of the world on his shoulders, and how do you expect him to act?
Like he does in the manga.
Or like a rock star (see: Asuka)
Or like a deluded sociopath playing some sort of grand scale videogame (see: Gantz)
Or like someone who has ANY DEGREE OF ABILITY TO COPE WHATSOEVER JESUS--anyway my point is that not everyone acts the same

I got no interest in revisiting the TV anime at this point but after seeing the first of the remake movies I'm kinda psyched for the rest of them. Eva is....a staple of anime. I'm reluctant to call it anything more than that. It's like Code Geass--I don't really think it's good, but it certainly IS, and it's popular.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAC View Post
The idea that the pilots felt everything that happened to the Evas shattered the sense of giant robots as powerful, indestructible armor that I'd had since the days of Tranzor Z.
G Gundam does this too but the fact is kind of undermined that all of it's pilots are demiGod martial artist supermen.
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