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Old 01-07-2018, 02:51 PM
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Default Star Trek Discovery - SPOILERS AHOY

Post HERE for specific Discovery posts !!!

Last edited by Kate or Die!; 01-08-2018 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 01-07-2018, 06:41 PM
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We just put all of this in the big trek thread before, huh? Not a bad idea to split it out.

Anyway my Discovery question is... it's starting up again huh? I lost track of everything's schedule over the holidays, I should really look this shit up....
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Old 01-07-2018, 08:05 PM
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I just watched the new one.

Culber! Noooooooo
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Old 01-07-2018, 09:36 PM
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Can we make this a spoiler free-fire zone?

I was 75, 80% up on this episode. Blond Boss Bitch Tilly was great, as was basically everything with the Terran Empire (the slow clap was really dumb, but also completely great).

As for the remaining quartile/quintile, Culver's death felt really cheap and unearned (literally shouted "Fuck Off!" at the TV when it happened). Looking into it, they might be doing something with it in the future, but in the near-term, it was one of the weaker moments in the show that already feels like it's accrued a lot of really shaky character beats.

By far my biggest issue, though, is that the narrative and the characters have given Tyler[/Voq] entirely too much slack. He's so clearly unwell that it's burst the boundries of dramatic irony and in-universe justification for his continued normal involvement with the crew. To me, he's ceased to be an interesting character and has instead become merely a sword of damocles hanging over everyone else's head. Trek's threaded this needle before, so it's disappointing how cludgy his plotline's become.
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Old 01-07-2018, 10:04 PM
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I'd prefer to not worry about spoiler tagging things, but will err on the side of caution.

Seems like the most prominent and popular internet theories were true. That dude is Voq; they're in the Mirror Universe now. So not really a surprising turn of events here. But wonderfully executed. Watching Tilly be a ruthless captain was delightful. And in general using Mirror Universe episodes to contrast the values of Starfleet, while also giving the actors some free reign to ham it up and diversify their performances is a lot of fun.

As for what you're complaining about Peach, I dunno, it didn't bother me too much. It's clear to me from the onset that DIS (DSC? DISCO?) is intent on not being the kind of ensemble cast kind of show that TNG through VOY are. It cares first and foremost about a smaller selection of principle perspectives, and everything is in service to that. Which also makes the rest of the crew expendable. Especially considering the original plans to make this an anthology show, where different seasons followed different crews in different time periods, that mode of organizing the narrative was probably the best way to do things. I liked Culver chiefly because hey, a professional, decent guy,
openly gay character on Star Trek.
But they weren't a particularly noteworthy part of the crew beyond that, so it wasn't the biggest of losses. For the record, I expect most of the cast to die by the end of this season. Or at least, that was the original plan; maybe things got switched at the last second when Fuller left the team.
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Old 01-08-2018, 01:40 AM
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Pretty good first episode back, though I really hope they're not in the Mirror Universe too long. Another episode, tops, hopefully not for most of the second half of the season.

At this point Tyler might as well have the name Voq tattooed on his forehead. It's only a matter of time before that fully comes out.

I wonder how long before someone discovers Culver's body?

One theory I'm nursing now is that their captain is actually from the Mirror Universe, possibly sent to over by the Emperor for some reason. Maybe to get that Klingon cloaking data? He's definitely playing a long game if it's true, though.
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Old 01-08-2018, 05:08 AM
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They really make the pain booths even more evil in this. Jesus Christ
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Old 01-08-2018, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chud_666 View Post
They really make the pain booths even more evil in this. Jesus Christ
TBH, they're pretty much the exact same as they were in TOS. Just this time, the sfx are a little prettier. People were screaming just the same. And honestly, I laughed pretty darn hard at the end. I didn't think that we'd get better laughs at Lorca's expense than his groundhog's day deaths at the hands of Mudd, but here we are.
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Old 01-08-2018, 07:20 AM
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If the constitution class Defiant shows up, I’ll be pretty pumped. Will also be rad if Empress Hoshi like 150 yo and around. Doubtful...
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Old 01-08-2018, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Peach View Post
By far my biggest issue, though, is that the narrative and the characters have given Tyler[/Voq] entirely too much slack. He's so clearly unwell that it's burst the boundries of dramatic irony and in-universe justification for his continued normal involvement with the crew. To me, he's ceased to be an interesting character and has instead become merely a sword of damocles hanging over everyone else's head. Trek's threaded this needle before, so it's disappointing how cludgy his plotline's become.
This, yes.

Also Dr. Boyfriend! Noooooooooo!!
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Old 01-09-2018, 09:11 AM
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If the constitution class Defiant shows up, I’ll be pretty pumped. Will also be rad if Empress Hoshi like 150 yo and around. Doubtful...
I assume it was scrapped for tech. The brilliant part about the Enterprise Mirror Universe episodes is that it explains how a culture built upon wanton destruction and chaos can make technological progression - it can't! It needs to opportunistically devour to grow. By the time of ENT, the Terran Empire is on the brink of being overthrown when it gets the gift of tech 100 years more advanced. By the time of TNG/DS9, their empire is gone because their technological advantage dried up. Also, zero chance Hoshi is still alive. I'd bet Georgieu is the latest to supplant them.
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Old 01-09-2018, 09:12 AM
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Well what if faceless emperor is Sarek?
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Old 01-09-2018, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by chud_666 View Post
Well what if faceless emperor is Sarek?
You probably didn't see the next episode preview, did you?
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Old 01-09-2018, 09:25 AM
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NOPE. Oh well. All my predictions are wrong. Lol
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Old 01-10-2018, 05:47 PM
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I hope the whole back-half of the season isn't set in the Mirror Universe. It's an interesting idea, but I fear that the Terran Empire is too comically evil to sustain more than a few episodes— even as an antagonist. We'll see…

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peach View Post
By far my biggest issue, though, is that the narrative and the characters have given Tyler[/Voq] entirely too much slack. He's so clearly unwell that it's burst the boundries of dramatic irony and in-universe justification for his continued normal involvement with the crew. To me, he's ceased to be an interesting character and has instead become merely a sword of damocles hanging over everyone else's head. Trek's threaded this needle before, so it's disappointing how cludgy his plotline's become.
Thirded. Going straight from POW to active duty was already a questionable decision— but it was a portrayed as questionable even in-universe. But keeping him on even as he is experiencing PTSD flashbacks on missions, and just being tardy and out of it is just so far beyond sensible.

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One theory I'm nursing now is that their captain is actually from the Mirror Universe, possibly sent to over by the Emperor for some reason. Maybe to get that Klingon cloaking data? He's definitely playing a long game if it's true, though.
I've seen similar theories around, and I really hope it's not true. First because it would be a little too similar, I think, to the Tyler/Voq story: deep-cover secret agent who maybe develops divided loyalties. But mostly because it would make Lorca so much less nuanced and interesting, if his unorthodox and militaristic approach is not a facet of his own character and experience so much as just that he's capital-E Evil.
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Old 01-15-2018, 07:52 AM
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I would be lying if I didn't say DISCO wasn't a little disappointing in how predictable all its plot twists have been. Of COURSE Capt. Georgiou is the Terran Emperor and I don't even feel like spoiler tagging Voq/Tyler because that's been obvious for several episodes now.

All that said, I'm still greatly enjoying the show. It's not nearly as clever as it thinks it is, but it's pretty entertaining space opera. It's kinda wild though that we'll now be spending three episodes in the Mirror Universe which has to be a record, right? Also, in light of the last few episodes, I'm beginning to come around on the Capt. Lorca being from the Mirror Universe being real. Since if that happened, everything would line up perfectly (too perfectly) and also be the kind of obvious twist that DISCO seems to enjoy.
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Old 01-15-2018, 08:07 AM
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The best Trek episodes are when the character beats work together with the plot beats, but most of what I've seen of DIS is plot existing to serve (some very hamfisted) character beats.
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Old 01-15-2018, 07:47 PM
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When partway through that ep it looked like we might actually lose both Stametz and Tyler I was getting convinced we were going for an "everyone dies and we reset" plot line, but I guess not. I did love the little twist of sending the data back on Tyler, though, since that was one I didn't quite catch coming and was kind of brilliant.
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  #19  
Old 01-16-2018, 03:02 AM
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I really hope we're only in the Mirror Universe for three episodes tops. Originally I hoped only two, but looks like that's right out.

Considering there's only four more episodes left for the season, I'd really hope we have at least three back in the real universe to wrap up all the things there. But I have a sneaking suspicious that between the Emperor showing up, Evil Stamets confronting the real one, and that inexplicable almost-smirk of Lorca's when the Emperor appeared suggesting he's actually Evil(er?) Lorca then I fear it might be another two episodes yet....

I wonder what the odds are of Tyler/Voq having a crisis of faith and realizing that there's strength in diversity and taking this message back to the Klingons to end their current war ambitions? It seems unlikely, particularly with how intensely Voq feels about the whole purity bullshit and it would be a bit too easy a resolution to this mess, but I don't see many other ways out of a war we know doesn't happen.
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Old 01-16-2018, 09:27 AM
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Doesn't the war continue until the Organians step in?
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Old 01-17-2018, 01:59 AM
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Yeah, I find a bit annoying that the twists are treated as a big shocker when they all but telegraph them. I mean, it's nice of them to show us the gun on the mantelpiece, but the show itself is written as if we had to be surprised a gun went off at all. This obsession that modern media has with delivering a twist to the audience at all costs is becoming annoying - at least Discovery hasn't done that at the expense of the characters. Yet.

All I'm saying is that Lorca's smile at the end better be a 'I told you so, Michael' rather than a 'Ah! My old nemesis, we meet at last!'.
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Old 01-18-2018, 06:41 PM
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Man, the whole twist of Tyler/Voq was so underwhelming. It was one thing to split (/draw out) the reveal across two episodes, but they don't even do anything with it! Like… Tyler attacks and tries to kill the Mirror Voq, but nobody finds this suspicious or seems to mind, and it's quickly brushed aside; after Voq awakens, he just immediately tries to kill Burnham instead of using his cover to obtain intel or quietly sabotage Starfleet from the inside; and even after Voq is due to be executed, at no point does he try to break Burnham's cover. There's just no consequence, no payoff; it's as if the writers were so enamoured with the twist they forgot to follow through.

Emperor Georgiou is great, though. No complaints there.

On another note, I like that when shaken, Lorca's accent gets thicker. It's a nice touch.
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Old 01-21-2018, 09:49 AM
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Ahhhh fuck. So, intrepid viewers caught this at the end of episode 9:

Right before the Discovery goes to warp to the Mirror Universe, it shows this for a split second:



Pretty much confirms Lorca is originally from the Mirror Universe.

Edit: This is also pretty dumb because, shouldn't there be a record of this in the ship's logs or something?
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Old 01-21-2018, 07:39 PM
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OK, so. All of that largely went according to expectations. And I still had fun anyways! Stamets bantering with himself was fun, and evil-Georgiou is delightful. And the part with Stamets and Paul was actually pretty touching and I loved it. I'm beginning to come around a lot on Discovery lately. I think this first season is very flawed, but it's probably one of the more entertaining first seasons of a thing I've seen in a while.

If I had a time travel device and control over the production, this would have been Season 2. I think a lot of the drama going on in this season would have benefited from us knowing the characters better going into it. I will also never stop regretting the fact that Discovery couldn't have been a more traditional show with Michelle Yeoh as the established captain, but that ship sailed so no point in dwelling on it too much.
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Old 01-22-2018, 02:35 AM
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Welp.

Not sure how I feel about this latest twist, since now there's two members of the crew who weren't who they said they were.

Plus we're STILL in the Mirror Universe, with three episodes left to go this season.

However, while I was down on it last week, I actually found myself LIKING the Mirror Universe turn this time around. I do hope we get back to the prime universe in time to wrap things up, (and undo any damage Mirror Discovery might be doing. Seriously why aren't they more worried about that?) but Emperor Georgiou was good fun and Burnham is really selling the internal conflict.

However one exchange made me roll my eyes.

Emperor Georgiou: Is the Phillipa Georgiou in your universe an honorable woman?
Burnham: Yes.
Emperor Georgiou: Then you have no reason to believe I am not.

SHE LITERALLY JUST FED YOU A SENTIENT, INTELLIGENT BEING. YOU HAVE EVERY REASON TO BELIEVE SHE IS NOT.
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Old 01-22-2018, 10:11 AM
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Lorca and Burnham! YOW!
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Old 01-22-2018, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by SpoonyBardOL View Post
However one exchange made me roll my eyes.

Emperor Georgiou: Is the Phillipa Georgiou in your universe an honorable woman?
Burnham: Yes.
Emperor Georgiou: Then you have no reason to believe I am not.

SHE LITERALLY JUST FED YOU A SENTIENT, INTELLIGENT BEING. YOU HAVE EVERY REASON TO BELIEVE SHE IS NOT.
I have to believe that Burnham is not so completely brain-dead as to not realize that at all, nor forget how literal seconds before the Emperor threw that Guardians of the Galaxy thingie at everyone's heads for no (good) reason. The Emperor is clearly trying to pull a fast-one and seize the Discovery the same way her predecessor seized the Defiant. Pretty sure Burnham knows what's up and is also trying a similar gambit.

The Klingon war still needs to be drawn to an end so I can't see this ending in the Mirror Universe. This little storyline seems to be coming to a head, so we'll probably go back to the regular universe next episode. Though to be honest, I fully expect the USS Discovery to blow up by the end. Something has to happen for all this spore-tech to disappear from the timeline.
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
I have to believe that Burnham is not so completely brain-dead as to not realize that at all, nor forget how literal seconds before the Emperor threw that Guardians of the Galaxy thingie at everyone's heads for no (good) reason. The Emperor is clearly trying to pull a fast-one and seize the Discovery the same way her predecessor seized the Defiant. Pretty sure Burnham knows what's up and is also trying a similar gambit.

The Klingon war still needs to be drawn to an end so I can't see this ending in the Mirror Universe. This little storyline seems to be coming to a head, so we'll probably go back to the regular universe next episode. Though to be honest, I fully expect the USS Discovery to blow up by the end. Something has to happen for all this spore-tech to disappear from the timeline.
PREDICTIONS ON SPORE DRIVE:
The ship survives but whatever Evil Stamets has done makes the seemingly self aware Spore Network want to like recede from the universe or w/e. Good Stamets saves it from destruction after a jump back home and loses spore powers or becomes one with it/Hugh.
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:02 AM
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All I'm saying is that Lorca's smile at the end better be a 'I told you so, Michael' rather than a 'Ah! My old nemesis, we meet at last!'.
*sigh!*

So we have two moles and the only character who shows shades of grey is revealed to come from an universe where everybody is black. Bah.

By the way, is the light sensitivity a canon fact or is this something new added to make the reveal more dramatic?
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Old 01-23-2018, 08:10 AM
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By the way, is the light sensitivity a canon fact or is this something new added to make the reveal more dramatic?
It's a retcon that's actually kinda clever? (But not really.) During the ENT Mirror Universe episodes, they dimmed the lighting to both make everything more brooding, and to make the TOS sets look less ridiculous. MU DS9 also featured darker lighting because broody-brood. DISCO comes along and say hey, let's make up a reason that this is the case! It's kinda dumb but it's a nice little attention to detail thingie.

Speaking in neat little attentions to detail - last episode, in the shuttle ride, they lay in a course at warp 1, for a point 27 million kilometers away. At the speed of light, that distance would take ~90 seconds. The entire scene there was 92 seconds. Pretty nifty!
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