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  #31  
Old 03-31-2019, 05:39 AM
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No, it just deliberately weird
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  #32  
Old 03-31-2019, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Mightyblue View Post
Alundra and/or Alundra 2 (PS1) might be up your alley then too; Zelda-like action rpg.
Iím in the middle of my first playthrough of Alundra now. It does have an extremely JRPG-y plot (The deity people worship isnít what it claims to be! An evil sealed away generations ago is on the verge of escaping from its prison!). Its female characters are mercifully unobjectified, but they donít have a ton of agency. The gameplay, though, is very, very Zelda. Like, straight-up Zelda + pretty PS1-era sprites + occasionally-frustrating platforming. My obsessive love for Zelda-style games is getting me through the jumping puzzles, but your mileage may vary. If nothing else, Alundra might be a way for you to test your tolerance for JRPG plotting in a controlled setting, separated from numbers-go-up mechanics.
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  #33  
Old 03-31-2019, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by madhair60 View Post
Legend of Mana is batshit. Is there... is this a deconstruction? It seems to be deliberately violating some sacred cows and RPG tropes, in a way that feels almost pointed and cynical.

Have I gone down a rabbit hole here? Sorry, rabite.
I've never heard or read anything that seem to corroborate the metatextual and/or cynical reads of the many "Why [the fuck]'s" of LoM from the development/design standpoint. I think its best taken as a beautiful, insane dream. I hope you dig it.

I also second most of estragon's recs in this thread. My interpretation of you, madhair, is of someone willing to champion obtuse games if they can be taken on their own terms. If you can apply the same principles to RPGs that you have to like- Alfred Chicken or whatever, I think you would get a hell of a lot out of weird games like Legend of Mana or Romancing Saga 2/3.
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  #34  
Old 03-31-2019, 06:42 AM
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I agree in general, but if the idea is to get your toes wet into the JRPG genre, any Kawazu game or LoM is probably not the best introduction.

Itís like if someone had never seen a movie before, and they opted to start with Jordadovskys Dune
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  #35  
Old 03-31-2019, 06:48 AM
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Parasite Eve is one of my favorite JRPGs: itís creepy, itís fun, itís short and the setting is unique. Give that a try but do NOT, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, try to complete the bonus postgame dungeon.
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  #36  
Old 03-31-2019, 07:10 AM
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I think Terranigma is a very good recommendation. It feels like a JRPG - because of the story, the music, the numbers going up -, but it is also a 'hack and slashy dungeon crawly game with real time combat'.

If you liked FF7 and FF9, i would recommend FF8. It has that propulsive and character-driven plot that Final Fantasy is famous for, but it also has a weird and unintuitive battle system and a good minigame. Some of the defining traits of JRPGs to a lot of people, i think.

But i would really recommend games from other systems. For instance, Strange Journey (DS) might be a good gateway to develop a lizard brain that likes 'numbers going up' - as you get stronger, you can go to new areas and finally defeat that boss. Since most JRPGs are easy and linear, it is not always obvious the impact getting stronger has on the gameplay. But Strange Journey makes it very clear, i think.

I would also recommend Breath Of Fire: Dragon Quarter (PS2), because repetitive battles are a major turn off to a lot of people, and every encounter is meaningful in this one.

If you like Mario, maybe a Mario RPG? But i don't know, i'm with estragon, don't be like us!!!11
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  #37  
Old 03-31-2019, 07:56 AM
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As several other people have suggested, if you like action RPGs, Terranigma is definitely worth a try. I went into it without knowing anything about it, and I found myself in for one heck of a ride. There's nothing else quite like it.

If you're looking for something that falls more squarely into traditional JRPG territory, I'd recommend Suikoden 2. I like the entire series, and the first game is good (and pretty short), but the second game is the one I'd recommend for people who aren't already fans of the genre. It has all the basics of the genre (you recruit characters, you fight turn-based battles, numbers go up), but it has a lot of qualities that make it stand out compared to its competition. There's a bunch of characters to recruit, you get some amusing combo attack options in battle (as in Chrono Trigger), and new characters tend to level up very quickly so they can catch up with the rest of your party. The spritework is great, and the story is fairly interesting and executed in a competent way; the plot focuses on personal and political conflicts rather than magical doodads, and the major characters and their motivations are established early on so the flow of the story makes sense, as opposed to being one damn thing after another like, say, Lufia.

Speaking of Lufia, Lufia 2 might be worth a try. It's got all the exploring, dungeon crawling, and turned-based combat you might want from a JRPG, but it executes all of those elements quite well. Most of the dungeons also feature some puzzle-solving, so if you like Zelda games, the dungeons in Lufia 2 might also scratch that particular itch.

I'm also fond of Valkyrie Profile and Valkyrie Profile 2, although each of the games has some rather complicated systems for new players to deal with; the first game features a ton of skills that your characters can spend their limited number of skill points on, while the second game features and unnecessarily complicated equipment system. Nevertheless, both games combine traditional JRPG fare with platforming (and a few puzzles) in the dungeons, and have combat systems that encourage you to juggle your enemies with ridiculous combo attacks, so they might be worth looking into if you enjoy platforming or Devil May Cry-style spectacle fighters. Both games are also gorgeous and incredibly atmospheric. The first game is the more complex and unusual of the two, whereas the second has more of a typically straightforward JRPG structure.
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  #38  
Old 03-31-2019, 08:18 AM
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SaGa Frontier seems interesting but I am already lost in some pipes under a prison.
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  #39  
Old 03-31-2019, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhair60 View Post
SaGa Frontier seems interesting but I am already lost in some pipes under a prison.
You picked the first scenario I did when playing this game for the first time. I wanted desperately to play and like this game, but never found my way out of those pipes... I think people recommending Kawazu games for beginners are crazy. There's a lot to like but man. Let's run a single mile first before we try tackling a marathon!
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  #40  
Old 03-31-2019, 09:04 AM
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I made a plot chart of SNES/PS RPGs I would recommend to folks without much genre experience. It evaluates them on pleasantness of aesthetics and design, the two metrics which apply to RPGs. I left out anything that requires extraordinarily fiddly play (like Vagrant Story) or dozens of hours of cutscenes (Xenogears), except for the PS1 games, which mostly have at least a couple of hours of cutscenes.

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  #41  
Old 03-31-2019, 09:13 AM
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hahaha, I feel personally attacked by that x-axis
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  #42  
Old 03-31-2019, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopus Prime View Post
I agree in general, but if the idea is to get your toes wet into the JRPG genre, any Kawazu game or LoM is probably not the best introduction.

Itís like if someone had never seen a movie before, and they opted to start with Jordadovskys Dune
But this is not exactly that. (If it were, I'd agree with you.) Madhair said at the beginning that he likes FF4 and SD3, so he's already got a basis to go on, he just can't seem to make it stick. I guess, for me personally, based on what he has available to him, I think Mario RPG would be a good "numbers go up" after whatever he's finished with what he's playing now.
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  #43  
Old 03-31-2019, 10:36 AM
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See? Live-A-Live is kinda off-putting and pretty janky. Madhair will love it. =3
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  #44  
Old 03-31-2019, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhair60 View Post
Legend of Mana is batshit. Is there... is this a deconstruction? It seems to be deliberately violating some sacred cows and RPG tropes, in a way that feels almost pointed and cynical.

Have I gone down a rabbit hole here? Sorry, rabite.
We did a Fun Club for this last year that would be good to check out, if only to see other people go "what on earth is this I don't understand but I love it".

Quote:
Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
hahaha, I feel personally attacked by that x-axis
I think it's the Y-axis more for me. But I never liked Chrono Trigger as much as people on here. I didn't play it until much later in life though so I may have missed that nostalgia window or something.

SD3 is one of my favourite games of all time, so I'm glad you like that. I don't know if I would have called it a JRPG though, I've always been told it's an action RPG instead due to the lack of turn based battles and that the battles are on the open field. Anyway, other top ones for me are:

Final Fantasy 13
Oreshika (Vita only but so damn good)
Child of Light is arguably not a JRPG due to it's simpler systems and short length but I really liked it.

As an aside... what would you all call the Fire Emblem series? Tactical RPGs?
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  #45  
Old 03-31-2019, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozacrot View Post
I made a plot chart of SNES/PS RPGs I would recommend to folks without much genre experience. It evaluates them on pleasantness of aesthetics and design, the two metrics which apply to RPGs. I left out anything that requires extraordinarily fiddly play (like Vagrant Story) or dozens of hours of cutscenes (Xenogears), except for the PS1 games, which mostly have at least a couple of hours of cutscenes.

is this a loss.jpg reference because if so I'm not seeing it
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  #46  
Old 03-31-2019, 12:05 PM
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Setting aside "Yes, my friend, by all means, play and finish Chrono Trigger", I keep thinking of Chrono Cross as something that's fun to play and, also, delightfully batshit. You needn't have finished Chrono Trigger to get into Cross; there some connective tissue to Trigger but understanding it isn't a requirement to enjoying Cross.

I enjoyed Lunar: SSSC immensely despite it being on that anime bullshit pretty hard. It's a charming game with a good localization. (I was never bothered by Working Designs', uh, habits.)

I probably wouldn't recommend Earthbound in a "getting into JRPGs" thread, as much as it pains me not to. It's a fantastic game but it's DNA is very Dragon Quest-y and less Final Fantasy breezy. Of course, once you've acquired the taste, I can't recommend it enough.

For the more action-oriented set, Soul Blazer, Illusion of Gaia/Time, Terranigma come to mind immediately. Alundra is great but the narrative can be a bit depressing. TT seems to love Legend of Mana; I didn't care for it but it's fun to mess around with every so often.

I would recommend FF6 before I'd recommend FF5, at least from a 'getting into JRPGs' perspective.

I have a great love of Xenogears, whatever its flaws. And the combat system might be more engaging than your traditional PSX RPGs.
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  #47  
Old 03-31-2019, 12:27 PM
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What specifically do you tend to not like about the genre? It'd be easier for me to recommend stuff knowing what I should avoid suggesting...
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  #48  
Old 03-31-2019, 01:29 PM
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+10 for ozacrot for making a plot. I don't know how accurate/transferable it is and I'm going to take issue with it in a second, but I love making my own lists and putting games on a plot is just the next level version.

issues: Soul Blazer would be the most intuitive of those game on my chart. It's incredibly simple and establishes a strict, rhythmic gameplay pattern for each world, something I think people who are 'meh' on the game seem to agree. I also don't understand why Super Mario RPG is the 2nd or 3rd most off putting game? To me it's super charming and funny. That said, I could imagine multiple ways someone could define that axis and slot specific feelings about SMRPG into it. When I tried to rethink the axis interpretation for a minute I wondered if the x-axis is measuring graphical aesthetic, although I'm still not sure if that's wrong.
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  #49  
Old 03-31-2019, 01:51 PM
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I have actually played through the end of Mario RPG but for some reason never beat the final boss.

I've been playing SaGa Frontier today and I like how I escaped the prison only to immediately be involved in a secret society with something to do with nuclear weapons, that's just nonsense. I don't understand the combat system at all - I found a bazooka and a handgun I equipped but idk how to actually use them. Anyway yeah secret nuclear lads.

I think I'm gonna back off from it and make a concerted effort to beat Chrono Trigger. Last time I fell off I think I might have actually lost my save.
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  #50  
Old 03-31-2019, 01:58 PM
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Ah! Something I forgot to mention about Alundra! If youíre in the mood for some Ď90s nostalgia, the game has a Working Designs translations that will provide it in spades.
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  #51  
Old 03-31-2019, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by madhair60 View Post
I've been playing SaGa Frontier today ... I don't understand the combat system at all - I found a bazooka and a handgun I equipped but idk how to actually use them. Anyway yeah secret nuclear lads.
Oh, goodness. Hang on, I've done writeups for this. Explanations in quote blocks, tips and you-really-want-to-do-this-trust-me bug exploits in spoilerpops.

Quote:
Name and Race are pretty obvious. There are four races in the game: human, mystic, mec, and monster. I'll go into more details about the others later. Emelia, Liza, and Annie are all humans.

Humans are, like in every game, flexible and adaptable. They can learn all sword, martial arts, gun, and magic techniques with few limitations, depending on their natural talent and a bit of RNG luck.

HP is exactly what it is in every other game: if you run out, you fall uselessly to the ground. But in this game that means you also lose one LP. You can be cured from 0 HP as long as you have LP remaining. Enemies can attack you even when you're lying unconscious at 0 HP; this always takes 1 LP. If you run out of LP, you can't be revived until you get proper medical attention (which in an RPG means staying at an inn).

WP and JP are waza points and jutsu points -- MP for special physical attacks and MP for spells, respectively.

Strength is the same as it is in every RPG. It raises damage with sword and martial arts attacks.
Quickness is also about the same, covering initiative order in combat and the ability to evade incoming attacks.
Intelligence raises damage with sword and gun attacks, and ever-so-slightly affects the rate at which humans learn new skills.
Will affects damage with all attacks, and accuracy with swords and martial arts.
Psychic is resistance and recovery from most status effects.
Vitality decreases damage from incoming attacks and raises resistance to "sleep" status.
Charm does not a damn thing beyond affecting the accuracy of charm status effects, increasing it if you cast the effect yourself, decreasing it if it's cast on you.
Defense reduces your damage from attacks. The single number here is actually a misnomer: there are actually eight different kinds of attacks and a given piece of armor may protect against them differently. The "elements" are slashing, crushing, piercing, fire, cold, electric, force, and status effects.

The list on the right side of the window is Emelia's equipment. Since she's just in plain clothes right now, it ain't much -- just a shirt and some boots. (Uh... no pants?)
To illustrate the point about defense above, the Silk Shirt is defense 3 against most attacks, but defense 11 against cold-elemental moves. Nowhere in the game is this kind of information actually told to you.

As for Emelia herself? Well, as protagonists go she's not that great. She's somewhat talented in swords and martial arts, but the worst character in the game at developing magic and gun skills. This scenario tries to suggest a gun as her ideal equipment, but don't fall for it. It's a trap.

In this game we'll be developing Emelia mostly as a martial artist.

Annie has better base stats than Emelia does right now, but has truly abysmal skill development. She's almost as bad as Emelia with guns and magic, and has less talent with swords and martial arts than any other human in the game. There's not much to redeem Annie overall, but the game forces her into the party a lot so we're stuck with her.

Liza is Annie's polar opposite. She's generally regarded as the best martial artist in the game, naturally talented in several powerful techniques that work well together (but more on that later). But she's also one of the most talented characters in the game with guns and spells, and not too shabby with a sword either. She's one of the best characters to have on your team due to her wide skillset; it's a shame so few scenarios offer her as recruitable. In this game we'll be training her mostly as a martial artist, but may teach her some gun skills and sorcery later.
Quote:
Emelia isn't equipped with a sword or a gun, and doesn't know any magic, so she's limited to punching with her tiny womanly fists.

Liza is also not equipped with a weapon, but has some previous training in wrasslin', giving her a few more options. Only Punch is free, though -- all the other skills consume WP to use.

After battle, your stats go up. This is a game system without experience levels, remember?

What stats are raised depends on three things, in approximate order of importance: the difficulty of the enemies you fought, the character's natural abilities, and what they did in combat.

Emelia's growth is naturally centered around will and vitality. Liza's is based on intelligence and quickness. Annie... has better HP growth than the other two, I guess, and develops strength and charm more quickly than any others (but still slower than Emelia's and Liza's will, vitality, intelligence, and quickness growth).

If they use sword skills, characters are likely to grow their strength, vitality, HP, and WP. Gun skills develop quickness, will, HP, and WP. Martial arts develop strength, WP, and HP (but at different rates than sword skills -- swords grow WP faster, martial arts develops strength and HP faster). If you use magic, you're more likely to grow intelligence, willpower, psychic, and JP. And if you dick around doing none of those things -- using items, for instance -- you can take solace in that at least your HP will go up a little.
Quote:
wtf is cube
Quote:
Yeah, what's the deal with Cube
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You get into a fight! Sort of. It uses the combat engine, but you just take shots with a TrainingGun at one of the targets until you empty the clip.
(As Annie): "And not that I'm going to actually tell you this, but you have to go in and train whenever you want to advance the plot, too."
Quote:
There are twelve schools of magic in the game, most of which come in opposing pairs. There's Light and Shadow magics, which are naturally opposed given their nature. The Arcane (tarot cards) and Rune (symbol) magics are an opposed pair. The Realm magic of the Magic Kingdom and the Mystic magic of Facinituru are an opposed pair. Mind magic opposes Evil magic. Time magic and Space magic oppose one another. And I guess by process of elimination Mirage and Life magic oppose one another.

Only one character in the game will learn any Evil, Time, Space, Mirage, or Life magic. (...)

Humans and Mystics can buy spells from certain vendors -- like the one in the screenshot above, for Rune magic -- but can't know spells from two opposite schools at the same time. Furthermore, each school has several spells that aren't for sale. You have to develop those yourself, and to develop spells in a given school, you must have the "Gift" for that school.

Realm magic and Mystic magic automatically grant their gifts to people born in the Magic Kingdom and to the Mystic race, respectively. Eliminating those two plus the five single-character schools listed above, and that leaves Arcane, Rune, Light, Shadow, and Mind magics.

Characters who collect all four runes or all four tarot cards receive the gift for Rune or Arcane magic, respectively. That only covers characters who are present for all four collectibles for each one -- so in this game, only Emelia, Annie, and Liza can have the gift for Rune magic, since they were the only ones to collect the Freedom Rune.
The gift for Mind magic is distributed in the region called Kyo. Light and Shadow magic gifts can be attained in Luminous.
Quote:
Humans are the only race who can do this -- sometimes when they choose to use a sword or martial art skill, a lightbulb appears over their heads and they "Spark" a new skill instead. Here Emelia's punch turns into Chop, which has a chance of blinding the target. Chop is then permanently added to Emelia's skill list, to be equipped or removed anytime.

The chance for sparking depends mostly on how hard the target enemy is. But here's the catch: everybody has a different list of what they're likely to spark -- that's what I mean when I say that so-and-so is good with swords or that this person is skilled at martial arts: they're likely to spark more skills, or more useful skills, than others.

For a specific example, Annie is only likely to spark six sword skills: Smash, BearCrush, Deflect, DeadEnd, RisingNova, and RosarioImpale. Emelia has talent to spark seventeen, and Liza twenty-two. Annie has natural talent with eleven martial arts abilities, Liza eighteen.

There's a remote chance that a character can spark a skill they're not talented with -- when I played through this scenario before this LP to check that the game actually worked, Annie sparked 2GaleSlash, a powerful attack that hits all enemies, before I finished collecting all the Runes. Emelia soon followed. Neither of them have the talent for those skills. But it's a remote chance -- while it's possible to turn anyone into a skilled swordsman or a comprehensive martial artist, you're better off playing to an individual's talents.
Quote:
Gun and magic skills work a little differently. They're learned after the battle is over, when your stats go up. If you used a gun, there's a chance of learning a new gun skill. If you cast any magic spells, there's a chance of learning a new spell of the same school you cast if you have the Gift for that magic.

Whether you learn a new spell depends on how hard the monsters you just fought were, some natural talent, and the difficulty of the spell. Spells that are available for purchase are easier to learn than the advanced magics you have to develop yourself, of course.

Humans can learn gun and magic skills, but Mystics can only learn magic. When I refer to a character's talent with magic and guns, I refer to a single statistic that effects both. It's essentially a scale of zero to eight, with my current party standing with Emelia at zero, Annie and <mumblecough> at one, Liza and Roufas each at six, and <coughmumbleIdunnohowmuchyoucareaboutspoilers> at eight.
Quote:
The maximum party size is five, and <guy> makes six. He's still present, though -- he is the first member of an alternate party I can throw into battle instead. You get three of those, for a maximum of fifteen characters recruited. For any battle, the two parties who don't participate regain a bit of their WP and JP, which don't naturally regenerate (your HP is restored to full after each fight).
the Scrap Junk Shop, the second-most-famously broken thing in the game.

The price and quality of goods are based on your leader's HP. You can spend a flat price -- in this case 300 credits -- to take three items from the scrap pile in the back of the store.

It's randomly-determined what you get, and half the time you get a RepairKit (restores HP to mecs, which normal healing items and spells don't fix), a BrokenBumper (defense 1 accessory, useless), or a piece of Junk (defense 2 accessory, also useless).

So as it's intended to be used, the Junk Shop is a waste of money and time. Thankfully, it was coded in a hurry and not thoroughly tested, so it's buggy as hell.

Open up the Sell menu and the game will get very confused about what a certain set of internal flags mean.

If you offer to sell an item you actually have, this flag confusion changes the quality of goods available from the initial value based on your HP to a new value based on your current money. If you have more than 1800 credits, you'll be pulling the best gear off the shelves anytime you're not getting your 50% shot at utter crap.

And if you offer to sell anything on the sell list, you can go back and collect more items. Offering to sell a HyperionBazooka, down at the bottom, lets you go back and pick seven more things.

You can repeat this bug exploit as many times as you want, having to only pay the initial buy cost for your first round of purchases. Better yet, the Junk Shop buys back those mostly-useless RepairKits, gradually increasing the value of the items you're getting as your cash holdings grow.


Regarding the skill assignment menu:
Quote:
See that little set of icons at the top? There's a sword, a red bar, a crown, and a staff. That's your Mastery meter for each character. As Humans equip sword, gun, or martial art skills in their ten available skill slots, it turns blue. If it's at least 80% blue and has no red, they attain Physical Mastery.

As Humans equip magic, the bar turns red. If it's at least 80% red and has no blue, they attain Magical Mastery.

Physical and Magical Mastery reduce the WP cost of sword/gun/martial art skills or the JP cost of spells by 1 respectively. This means you can use cheap abilities like DoubleSlash, AirThrow, or EnergyChain for free, instead of basic attacks. Furthermore, characters with Physical Mastery are twice as likely to Spark new sword and martial arts techniques or develop new gun skills after battle. Likewise, characters with Magical Mastery are twice as likely to develop new spells.
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Talk to Roufas after each mission for a paycheck.
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<After you complete the first mission>, this guy lets you change <costumes>. Why would you?

The <first> outfit changes Emelia's Talent list for Liza's. In her own scenario, this kind of thing makes Emelia pretty flexible and able to learn most of the sword and martial arts techniques available.
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Well, that's convenient. I, as a player, am also trying to get information on Cube. What the fuck is Cube?
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Wearing the <third> costume swaps Emelia's Spark list... for Annie's. I cannot fathom why anyone would think this is a good idea.
Because Nelson has this pub.

But we're here for this other guy, who sells ingots of gold. They're set at 500 credits a pop.

Then we sail back to Koorong (via Owmi), with this bitchin' flying pirate ship part of the way. It's the only ship that goes to Nelson, see.

There's also a gold exchange at Koorong. Here, the prices fluctuate! The price to buy or sell a gold ingot starts at 1000. For every one you buy, the price goes up. For every one you sell, the price goes down. So selling the first ingot is worth 1000 gold, the next 940, the next 880, and so on.

Now, you might think it's possible to just make some quick cash by buying gold in Nelson and selling it in Koorong, but the exchange in Koorong doesn't reset the price to 1000 when you leave -- it remembers where it was when you last visited.

So cheating them out of their money takes a bit more effort. Here I've offered to sell enough gold to reduce the price per ingot to 0... but I have more gold left to sell!

Okay. That's all the gold I've got, but they didn't offer me any more money for the last twelve ingots.

But even though I ruined all their demand, they offer me 40 credits for the first ingot I offer to sell, rather than the thirteenth (one more than when they started offering me 0 credits for gold).

So I offer to sell none of my gold, moving the meter all the way back up. Every time I go up, they raise the price -- until it's twelve iterations higher than when I started. That's much better! So I sell off some gold at a tidy profit, return to Nelson, and buy more.

Repeating the process a couple of times nets me more and more credits and more and more gold ingots every time.

And here's why. Endgame equipment is pricey and damned if I'm gonna grind for random drops for a whole party in seven different scenarios. Enemies only drop single- or double-digit credits after a fight for most of the game. Exploiting the cost of gold for your own profit is a breezy way to afford the gear you'll need.


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I'd be happy if they'd tell me what Cube is.
Emelia has talent for Sliding and Suplex, and managed to pick up BabelCrumble by chance. Switching to Liza's talent list via the <first> outfit gives her a shot at GiantSwing (and had she not lucked into it, BabelCrumble).

Those four abilities, one kicking move and three throws, make up the Deadly Suplex Combo. (Dream Super Combo? Who comes up with this stuff?)

DSC is just those four moves, one after another. The user slides into the target, suplexes them into the ground, smashes them into the ground again, whirls them around, and flings them away to smack into the ground again somewhere else. Not every move always triggers, but the damage adds up as though whatever moves involved were amplified by being in the sort of combo several people do together. It adds up fast!

No character has natural talent for all four moves except Emelia in her own scenario. It's the only thing she ever does right! Of course, if you recruit her as any other character, she can't swap costumes, so you still have to luck into BabelCrumble and GiantSwing.

Outside of Emelia's costume exploits, the character most likely to learn the DSC is... Liza. She has talent for Suplex, BabelCrumble, and GiantSwing, so you only have to luck into Sliding.


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With Emelia's scenario we've covered just about all there is to cover about humans, including her weird-ass talent switching that isn't implemented quite right. BUT ANYWAY let's talk about ROBOTS oh man you guys this is gonna be so awesome.
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  #52  
Old 03-31-2019, 07:17 PM
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Yeah, God bless you for trying to present this in a sensical way, but dang this game seems like a bunch of crap thrown together in pretty much every aspect of its construction. Feels like a spiritual successor to Live A Live in more than a few ways, but without the simple charm of it.
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It was ambitious, to be sure, but running low on budget and time constraints can do terrible things to a piece of software. They could have made a great game with maybe two or three character scenarios, but shot for seven (originally nine!) stories at once and the whole thing is just a mishmash as a result.

Anyway.
Shame about Rya, can you imagine what would have happened once this thread turned into "someone is playing SaGa Frontier for the first time"?
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Old 03-31-2019, 07:28 PM
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At some point I realized that although many of my favourite games ever are JRPGs, I really only like JRPGs that are still action-based or rely on dumb gimmicks. Pokťmon, The World Ends With You, Nier, Persona, and Paper Mario all come to mind.
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  #54  
Old 03-31-2019, 08:09 PM
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Yeah, JRPGs have to have A Thing for me to really get into the combat. Sometimes games have enough going on outside the combat that they still engage me (like the early Dragon Quest and Phantasy Star loop of going to a town and getting a bunch of new leads to look into, then finding a place and a thing and going "I've heard about this!"). But most games need what I think of as a main mechanic to engage me. Like timed hits, stagger, attack chains, status effect combos, complex party composition tools under the hood (job systems, materia, junctioning), etc. If I ask myself "what is this game's combat about" and the only answer I can come up with is "saving resources to heal at the right time" it's probably not going to hold my attention.
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Old 03-31-2019, 08:16 PM
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It's usually good when a JRPG mixes up the combat, but some games go too far and end up being just a weird mushy action game.
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  #56  
Old 03-31-2019, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongo View Post
It's usually good when a JRPG mixes up the combat, but some games go too far and end up being just a weird mushy action game.
You're dangerously close to opening The Box.
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  #57  
Old 04-01-2019, 12:34 AM
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I would like to counteract the mass of snarky cynicism about SaGa Frontier above, since oftentimes that's how you see people relate to the game: I played it for the first time and in full last August or so, and it quite definitively became an all-time favourite through almost every aspect of its presentation and design.
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Old 04-01-2019, 01:12 AM
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I love SaGa Frontier, too. I've never beaten it (save T-260G's scenario), but it's a game I enjoyed a lot on the ol' PlayStation. Enough so that I'm still disappointed that it never saw an international rerelease on PSone Classics and it was passed over for "gems" like a shoddy Rainbow Six port for our version of the janky Sony emulation box.

I know SaGa games are always a hard sell, but SaGa Frontier deserves better than this.
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Old 04-01-2019, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by R^2 View Post
Shame about Rya, can you imagine what would have happened once this thread turned into "someone is playing SaGa Frontier for the first time"?
Well, you know, except for the part where he was constitutionally incapable of considering things from others' viewpoints.
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  #60  
Old 04-01-2019, 07:08 AM
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I do want to clarify that SaGa Frontier's (and Live A Live's) presence in the the lower left quadrant of my very scientific plot doesn't mean I don't love it very much and see it as an absolute treasure
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