The Return of Talking Time

Go Back   The Return of Talking Time > Talking about media > Talking about television games

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 06-11-2018, 11:02 AM
Adrenaline's Avatar
Adrenaline Adrenaline is offline
Born in the USA
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Pronouns: he/him
Posts: 19,985
Default

How would death be a punishment in that case?
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 06-11-2018, 11:03 AM
YangusKhan's Avatar
YangusKhan YangusKhan is offline
does the Underpants Dance
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Colorado
Pronouns: he/him
Posts: 7,482
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrenaline View Post
How would death be a punishment in that case?
It wouldn't. There's plenty of other ways to make death a punishment other than checkpoints.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 06-11-2018, 01:11 PM
Diplo's Avatar
Diplo Diplo is offline
Binglebottom
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 544
Default

I'm pretty glad this is single-player only, because if it weren't I feel like the designers would've been compelled to bring over the message system which by now is a hotbed of misogyny and homophobia, and that culture certainly would've migrated.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 06-11-2018, 01:29 PM
Patrick's Avatar
Patrick Patrick is online now
of the Black Falcons
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Pronouns: he, him
Posts: 19,589
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diplo View Post
I'm pretty glad this is single-player only, because if it weren't I feel like the designers would've been compelled to bring over the message system which by now is a hotbed of misogyny and homophobia, and that culture certainly would've migrated.
Yep. Messages were pretty nice at one point, but now it's mostly gross jokes.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 06-11-2018, 01:35 PM
conchobhar's Avatar
conchobhar conchobhar is online now
What's Shenmue?
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Snowy climes of Canada
Pronouns: He/Him
Posts: 3,091
Default

Souls' online interactions have always been better in theory than in practice, mostly because gamers can't be trusted with nice things. I played Bloodborne entirely offline and it felt like a better experience for it.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 06-11-2018, 07:12 PM
Issun's Avatar
Issun Issun is offline
You must whip it
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sad Lesbian Capital of the World
Posts: 17,373
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alixsar View Post
I don't see how that's relevant
Because invasions are dumb that's why.

Edit: Didn't see the second page but yeah, "Amazing Chest" and its ilk ceased to be funny long ago. The only thing I miss in offline play is the shadows of other players running around.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 06-11-2018, 07:46 PM
Vendrick's Avatar
Vendrick Vendrick is online now
:tweet:
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 2,635
Default

I could deal without messages (I never paid attention to them) but it was fun running through stages and fightan bosses, making new friends along the way. ;_;
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 06-11-2018, 07:50 PM
Issun's Avatar
Issun Issun is offline
You must whip it
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sad Lesbian Capital of the World
Posts: 17,373
Default

Oh yeah, there was that one time in Dark Souls II where some rando led me straight to Smelter Demon (at the time I didn't know it was optional), but instead of running off as a joke, they legit fought the hell out of that thing, and died never knowing if I'd beat it (I did).

I'd miss that. Invasions and misogyny not so much.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 06-11-2018, 10:53 PM
Ludendorkk's Avatar
Ludendorkk Ludendorkk is offline
Chief Servbot
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Lima, OH
Pronouns: He/Him
Posts: 3,054
Default

Nuke the message system and let me play with other people in silence, like god intended
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 06-12-2018, 12:05 PM
conchobhar's Avatar
conchobhar conchobhar is online now
What's Shenmue?
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Snowy climes of Canada
Pronouns: He/Him
Posts: 3,091
Default

Polygon's got some details on the game.

The Good: strategic death system
Quote:
In the demo we were shown, the main character died while fighting a large boss and several smaller enemies. The main character fell on his back, and the screen showed a Japanese character in red and the word “death” in English below it. Enemies turned their back on the player’s corpse and began to walk away. That’s when the player stood back up, taking one of the smaller enemies by surprise before returning to focus on the larger boss.

Representatives of FromSoftware said that the new death mechanic will give players a strategic advantage. You may want to get yourself killed on purpose, they said, in order to gain a tactical advantage.
The Bad: it's probably a Dad Game
Quote:
The main character will be a warrior in the service to a 10-year-old lord. The main antagonist, who FromSoftware is calling The Rival for now, has kidnapped the child and secreted them away. During the abduction, The Rival cuts off the main character’s arm. When they wake up, they find that it has been replaced by the Shinobi prosthetic, a false arm with wild mechanical powers.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 06-12-2018, 12:16 PM
YangusKhan's Avatar
YangusKhan YangusKhan is offline
does the Underpants Dance
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Colorado
Pronouns: he/him
Posts: 7,482
Default

Quote:
Another unusual feature of Sekiro is its new death mechanic. Traditionally, in so-called Souls games, death returns the player to the nearest checkpoint, resets the enemies, and robs you of whatever you’ve earned. This time around, death returns players to the spot where they died.

The developers were careful to mention that players won’t be able to revive indefinitely. There’s more to the death mechanic that will be revealed at a later time, they said, while promising that Sekiro will provide the same level of tension that fans of Dark Souls and Bloodborne have come to expect.
Called it!
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 06-12-2018, 12:46 PM
Alixsar's Avatar
Alixsar Alixsar is offline
The Shogun of Harlem
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Harlem
Posts: 24,123
Default

But can you dodge roll?!
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 06-12-2018, 01:46 PM
conchobhar's Avatar
conchobhar conchobhar is online now
What's Shenmue?
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Snowy climes of Canada
Pronouns: He/Him
Posts: 3,091
Default

I should have just waited a couple hours, because here's a much more thorough article from PCGamer. It's a long article with lots of info about the game within, so I suggest you read the whole thing, but here's some choice snippets:

Sekiro is not a Souls-like
Quote:
Sekiro is not an RPG. From Software's Yasuhiro Kitao describes it as an action adventure game, making it sound more akin to Zelda where exploration will yield new items that help you progress. You won't be making your own character or leveling up stats, but you will be finding all manner of cool gadgets that attach to your 'Shinobi Prosthetic' that replaces your lost hand. If you liked how Bloodborne's weapons transformed into wildly different types, you'll probably love this new system.
Grappling hook is not restricted in use
Quote:
Then, of course, comes the grappling hook. Environments in Sekiro are designed with verticality in mind, and you're free to use your grappling hook to leap onto cliffs, rooftops, and more. From what I saw, the grappling hook feels natural to use and isn't locked down to specific grapple points. It even has uses in combat, like pulling enemies in or using it to get behind an enemy for a deadly slash.
Combat is designed to mimic a sword duel
Quote:
While there's still HP, combat revolves around 'posture.' When you attack an enemy, they'll easily block your attack but will lose posture each time. Once lowered enough, they'll be open to a gory finishing move, but the same goes for you. As enemies attack, blocking lowers your posture unless you block perfectly (similar to parrying in Dark Souls). With a perfect block you'll actually throw the enemy off balance and lower their posture instead.
There's light stealth mechanics and finishers
Quote:
Sekiro also has "light stealth mechanics." Instantly fatal stealth kills on enemies can help even the odds. You can press up against walls, hang off of ledges, and crouch in grass to stay hidden. If anyone wanders too close, you can finish them off Assassin's Creed style.
Monsters can't always be dealt with in traditional boss fights
Quote:
Though the sequence involving the snake was cut short for time, Kitao explained that there'd be many scenes that involve "cat and mouse" games with incomprehensibly large monsters. In this particular demo, the player had to wait for moments when the snake wasn't looking make his move to traverse the canyon. I get the sense that these encounters won't be like traditional boss fights, but are more like environmental puzzles that have to be figured out.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 06-12-2018, 01:50 PM
conchobhar's Avatar
conchobhar conchobhar is online now
What's Shenmue?
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Snowy climes of Canada
Pronouns: He/Him
Posts: 3,091
Default

Honestly, I wasn't too excited about the Sekiro trailer, but everything I've heard about the game since just makes it sound better and better.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 06-12-2018, 01:58 PM
Tanto's Avatar
Tanto Tanto is offline
Watch and learn
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NoVA
Pronouns: He/him
Posts: 9,785
Default

Yeah, that description sounds significantly more interesting to me than yet another Soulsborne game.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 06-12-2018, 02:57 PM
Alixsar's Avatar
Alixsar Alixsar is offline
The Shogun of Harlem
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Harlem
Posts: 24,123
Default

But can you dodge roll?!!?!?!?!??????????

It sounds like they're going back to their character-action-game-Otogi roots with this, which is probably for the best. Doing another action RPG would just burn them out. I'm still cracking up at how EVERY single take on this revolves around comparing it to Dark Souls.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 06-12-2018, 02:58 PM
fanboymaster's Avatar
fanboymaster fanboymaster is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,028
Default

Just like every other video game of the past 5 years
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 06-12-2018, 03:00 PM
Vendrick's Avatar
Vendrick Vendrick is online now
:tweet:
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 2,635
Default

A Game for Dads
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 06-12-2018, 03:00 PM
Alixsar's Avatar
Alixsar Alixsar is offline
The Shogun of Harlem
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Harlem
Posts: 24,123
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fanboymaster View Post
Just like every other video game of the past 5 years
lol true
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 06-12-2018, 03:03 PM
Zodar's Avatar
Zodar Zodar is offline
twinkling photon
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: It's all in the numbers.
Posts: 7,408
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by conchobhar View Post
The Bad: it's probably a Dad Game
Oh. I'm out
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 06-12-2018, 03:55 PM
rogue's Avatar
rogue rogue is offline
Half-Ninja
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,561
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by conchobhar View Post
The Bad: it's probably a Dad Game
I'm sorry, but what makes this a Bad?
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 06-12-2018, 03:57 PM
MetManMas's Avatar
MetManMas MetManMas is online now
I hunt Mondays.
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Kissimmee, FL
Pronouns: He/Him/His
Posts: 22,209
Default

He's probably assuming that like other dad games you may end up with the kid tagging along as a potential annoyance and liability.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 06-12-2018, 03:58 PM
Zodar's Avatar
Zodar Zodar is offline
twinkling photon
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: It's all in the numbers.
Posts: 7,408
Default

I will sooner gnaw off my own hand like a trapped coyote than play as a male character in a Fromsoft third person action game
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 06-12-2018, 04:26 PM
Vendrick's Avatar
Vendrick Vendrick is online now
:tweet:
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 2,635
Default

W-what's wrong with Fromsoft male characters ;_;
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 06-13-2018, 12:13 AM
falz's Avatar
falz falz is offline
Robot arms for everyone!
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,015
Default

usgamer did a fantastic interview! Miyazaki is da greatest
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 06-13-2018, 03:15 AM
Peklo's Avatar
Peklo Peklo is online now
Love is OGR
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Finland
Pronouns: They/Them, She/Her
Posts: 1,195
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetManMas View Post
He's probably assuming that like other dad games you may end up with the kid tagging along as a potential annoyance and liability.
That's not the issue with dad games.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:05 AM
Deptford's Avatar
Deptford Deptford is offline
Fifth Business
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,470
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vendrick View Post
W-what's wrong with Fromsoft male characters ;_;
For me personally, I enjoy being able to play as a female character in any game where it's an option, in part because so few games legitimately star women that games with character creation options are some of the few where you even can. Furthermore, many games with custom characters get to be accidentally kinda woke. as the player character is usually an unstoppable badass whose gender isn't constantly made an issue of, and indeed getting to play as a woman who is presented as an unstoppable badass whose gender isn't constantly made an issue of is even MORE rare in games at large. So, for FromSoft to drop the option from their latest game can be seen as a disappointment, after having previously been a regular supplier of games where you can play as a woman, and especially women who don't seem panderingly designed around the priority of making them attractive for a male player to stare at, and instead just being equally cool and fierce as the male characters.

As far as the talk of Dad Games and why they're Bad Games, less sure of that rationale. From context of such things discussed here and elsewhere, I think there's the assumption that Dad Games are all about courting dudes-turned-dads in a crassly mercenary way with cliched emotional beats rather than seeking to provide proper nuanced representation for others, and also that Dad Games have a tendency to glorify patriarchal macho bullshit that is best left un-glorified.

The representation criticism is definitely fair, and is tied into the same reasons for the disappointment about a single fixed man-guy to play as in this one, but I do feel like anger with Dad Games beyond them just being yet more games starring men is a bit misplaced, at least from my own, like, exposure to and knowledge of games falling in the category.

While I'm sure there are others out there, the only four actual recent Dad Games I can even think of...as in, games where you play as a Dad who is Sad and therefore Mad and their dadness is a driving force in the narrative and themes and such...are the recent God of War (which I haven't played), Nier Gestalt, Lisa: The Painful RPG, and The Last Of Us. I feel the middle two are both very artistic and experimental games that tried to push the medium forward in really ambitious and imaginative ways, and while I can definitely understand disliking them for any number of reasons (and I actually kinda DO dislike Lisa), they definitely shouldn't be dismissed as uninteresting or without some sort of artistic value to be gained from 'em. And The Last Of Us I find less interesting and more prone to cliche and a bit obnoxious for a few reasons beside, but its themes are actually not bad.

The climax and ending very un-subtly demonstrate that Joel's paternal protectiveness and "KNOWS WHAT'S BEST"-ness are ultimately a selfish and destructive force and in the wake of his killing spree he's portrayed as a pathetic broken individual, and a liar. And Ellie is never reduced to just being a prop for his emotional journey, being richly characterized to the best of Naughty Dog's ability and given a big chunk of the game to be the focus of, during which she goes huntin' and braving hostile situations to care for Joel, and she was also seeming groomed to be more the leading character for the sequel, which is indeed what's happened.

And all three of the ones I know of insist that each father-figure's "EVERYBODY JUST BETTER STAY AWAY FROM MY PRECIOUS LITTLE BISCUIT" mentality that they indulge in without proper self-awareness, assuming their feelings justify anything without stopping to truly consider the wants and emotional needs of others, even their own child-figure, is not just unhealthy and problematic, but something so cataclysmically wrong-headed that it can drive them to either potentially or CONFIRMED LITERALLY bring about the end of all humanity.

(I strongly believe in the storytelling potential of video games and admire any that pursue its possibilities, but they are often a bit un-subtle)

Basically, the Dad Games I've personally experienced use the premise far more to condemn toxic masculinity than glorify it, which puts 'em way ahead of many games starring non-dads. Think they might have a better batting-average than usual, even. But I also know there are plenty of games out there I don't know much about, so maybe there are some high-profile Dad Games that are super-problematic I'm not aware of? I dunno. And even if not, should definitely be more Mom Games (one of the widely-considered Best Games Ever was a Mom Game, after all), and games starring all the countless many other varieties of Not-Dads out there in the world, too! Absolutely!

I just feel stuff like dismissively and preemptively labeling Sekiro, based purely on the fact that its synopsis features a male character caring about a younger character, feels like a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

And then the baby's dad shows up yelling "WHAT DID YOU DO TO MY PRECIOUS LITTLE BISCUIT" and kills a bunch of people.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:44 AM
MetManMas's Avatar
MetManMas MetManMas is online now
I hunt Mondays.
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Kissimmee, FL
Pronouns: He/Him/His
Posts: 22,209
Default

Wow, good post Dept. I admit, I didn't have much of an understanding of why dad games are bad games, but I just haven't played many of them because they so often tend to be über violent AAA murder fests. Which of course, is its own problem.

I think a discussion about how problematic dad games are would be worth its own thread if anyone wants to make one.

Anyway, given FromSoftware's minimalist approach to storytelling, I'm assuming for now that this'll be less a dad game and more a kidnapping game. And that is also a problem, treating people (especially women) like a prize to be won.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:47 AM
four-so's Avatar
four-so four-so is offline
PROGRAMMED BY NASIR
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Louisiana
Pronouns: ♂
Posts: 5,272
Default

Dad game, schmad game. The game has a "grapple arm". From Software can give it all the fake gravitas they want. Bless 'em.

SHINOBI. GRAPPLE. ARM.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 06-13-2018, 11:49 AM
Patrick's Avatar
Patrick Patrick is online now
of the Black Falcons
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Pronouns: he, him
Posts: 19,589
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deptford View Post
For me personally, I enjoy being able to play as a female character in any game where it's an option, in part because so few games legitimately star women that games with character creation options are some of the few where you even can. Furthermore, many games with custom characters get to be accidentally kinda woke. as the player character is usually an unstoppable badass whose gender isn't constantly made an issue of, and indeed getting to play as a woman who is presented as an unstoppable badass whose gender isn't constantly made an issue of is even MORE rare in games at large. So, for FromSoft to drop the option from their latest game can be seen as a disappointment, after having previously been a regular supplier of games where you can play as a woman, and especially women who don't seem panderingly designed around the priority of making them attractive for a male player to stare at, and instead just being equally cool and fierce as the male characters.
That's not the first thing that came to mind, but I totally agree. I've heard a similar analysis of the Mass Effect games.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cyborg skele-arm , from software , fromsoft , nioh is still cool , rip nioh , shadows die a lot , shadows die twice , souls , you died

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Your posts ©you, 2007