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Old 10-19-2010, 02:21 PM
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Default Tales of the Tales Series

So yeah, I wanted to talk about Tales of Hearts, which I've been playing, but I figured the interest would be minimal and a full thread about the series would be better.


You'll likely be distracted by the fact that this game has two versions (one with CG movies and one with anime movies), but behind that is an absolutely fantastic game. Granted I can't say much about the story, but this battle system is just tops.

Takes a look.

It will look pretty insane, but it's a lot of fun to play, and getting rid of mp is one of the best things the series has done.

The structure of the game is also interesting, in that there is no world map instead using an interconnected world in the likes of FFXII. Granted many of the areas connecting towns and such are somewhat bland, but it's a nice step forward for the series and was also put into place into Tales of Graces.

So yeah, let's talk some Tales, hate welcome as well.

Graces Trailer
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Old 10-19-2010, 02:38 PM
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This thread depresses me because it reminds me that this series is all but dead on this side of the Pacific.
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Old 10-19-2010, 02:42 PM
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Hmmm...I might get this later on if I ever get a flash cart (so that I am morally in the clear while being able to enjoy an English translation). Looks pretty good, I hear it's a lot smoother than past 2D Tales Of games (or at least the ones that made it to the US).
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Old 10-19-2010, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Refa View Post
Hmmm...I might get this later on if I ever get a flash cart (so that I am morally in the clear while being able to enjoy an English translation). Looks pretty good, I hear it's a lot smoother than past 2D Tales Of games (or at least the ones that made it to the US).
It is (it's also very cheap to import if you get the CG Movie version). The battle system is based on the remake of Tales of Destiny (which didn't make it here).
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Old 10-19-2010, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Tanto View Post
This thread depresses me because it reminds me that this series is all but dead on this side of the Pacific.
eh, there hasn't been a good candidate to be localized in awhile, I think we'll be seeing Tales of the Abyss 3DS and the new Tales for PS3 over here.
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Old 10-19-2010, 03:14 PM
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eh, there hasn't been a good candidate to be localized in awhile, I think we'll be seeing Tales of the Abyss 3DS and the new Tales for PS3 over here.
What about Tales Of Graces? I mean, it is the next game in the mainline series, I'd consider that a pretty important canidate for localization. Or at least the PS3 port of Tales Of Graces. Since NA has NEVER recieved more than 1 version of the same Tales Of game, I don't think we'll be seeing Tales Of The Abyss. New PS3 game we might get though, and I sincerly hope that it does come to the US (and Europe, I guess, but they can just import the US version).
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Old 10-19-2010, 03:17 PM
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The Tales series is great, but it's honestly pretty much dead in the west.

Mainly because of a series of stupid mistakes made by Bamco.

Like not advertising.
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Old 10-19-2010, 03:21 PM
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I just got my copy of vesperia back from being on loan for 2 years, never thought I'd see that one again.

I've always wanted to play through one of the 4p ones with a full group start to finish, but I've never managed to round up the people. Also it sounds like a mild nightmare storywise, I can't even get my friends to sit through reach's cinemas.
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Old 10-19-2010, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Refa View Post
What about Tales Of Graces? I mean, it is the next game in the mainline series, I'd consider that a pretty important canidate for localization. Or at least the PS3 port of Tales Of Graces. Since NA has NEVER recieved more than 1 version of the same Tales Of game, I don't think we'll be seeing Tales Of The Abyss. New PS3 game we might get though, and I sincerly hope that it does come to the US (and Europe, I guess, but they can just import the US version).
PS3 version sure, the Wii version had all kinds of technical issues even after they did a recall I hear. I know they said they wouldn't but it if it sells well in Japan, you never know (the Wii version did not sell all that well).

The never receiving more than version of the sames Tales game isn't some magical rule, just a coincidence. With the Abyss anime on it's way to the US at some point, a tie in to the game would make perfect sense, especially with the localization already done (and not having major new content like the PS3 port of Vesperia). So don't count it out.


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Originally Posted by BlitzBlast View Post
The Tales series is great, but it's honestly pretty much dead in the west.

Mainly because of a series of stupid mistakes made by Bamco.

Like not advertising.
I see this a lot from people who have no idea what they're talking about. So the success of the two Symphonia games had nothing to do with advertising?
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Old 10-19-2010, 03:33 PM
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I'm not sure if you knew this, but Nintendo handled Symphonia's advertising (anyone remember those trading cards?)

Note that Symphonia was a big hit, and that Dawn of the New World sold as much as it did because it had Symphonia's name.

Meanwhile, what does Bamco do with the huge hit that was Symphonia? They follow it up with Legendia.

And not advertise it as much as Nintendo did with Symphonia.

Then we run into the little "we're not exporting anything" debacle.
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Old 10-19-2010, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by BlitzBlast View Post
I'm not sure if you knew this, but Nintendo handled Symphonia's advertising.
Both Symphonia games?
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Old 10-19-2010, 03:36 PM
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Dawn of the New World got most of its sales due to its name. The name Nintendo highly publicized.

So yeah.
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  #13  
Old 10-19-2010, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by BlitzBlast View Post
Dawn of the New World got most of its sales due to its name. The name Nintendo highly publicized.

So yeah.
So what you're saying is Namco smartly teamed with Nintendo to get two of their games to sell very well?
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Old 10-19-2010, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Refa View Post
What about Tales Of Graces? I mean, it is the next game in the mainline series, I'd consider that a pretty important canidate for localization. Or at least the PS3 port of Tales Of Graces. Since NA has NEVER recieved more than 1 version of the same Tales Of game, I don't think we'll be seeing Tales Of The Abyss. New PS3 game we might get though, and I sincerly hope that it does come to the US (and Europe, I guess, but they can just import the US version).
Graces basically snaps in half when New Game + activates, items fail to spawn, you get locked out of titles and things associated with completion and collection, freezes and sound bugs were also common, there's a reason we aren't getting Graces Wii, we might get Graces F, but they might not be able to get that past SCEA because it'll be at best an uprezzed Wii game.
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Old 10-19-2010, 03:42 PM
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I'm saying that Nintendo showed how to get one of their games to sell.

Bamco proceeded to completely ignore those lessons with Legendia, Abyss, and Vesperia.
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Old 10-19-2010, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by BlitzBlast View Post
I'm saying that Nintendo showed how to get one of their games to sell.

Namco proceeded to completely ignore those lessons with Legendia, Abyss, and Vesperia.
Great please tell me what these lessons were that failed to make games on completely different platforms sell, even though I believe Abyss sold just fine, and even though Legendia is awful. Please tell me what lessons would have helped Namco sell Vesperia on a platform where no one cares about JRPGs.

Do you think maybe the reason that Symphonia sold well is because it was the only good RPG on the Gamecube?
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Old 10-19-2010, 03:54 PM
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From the games I've seen them release, I get the impression that Namco mostly doesn't care about anything except fighting games and their overexposed 80s arcade titles these days. Well, most of the Tales titles I've played have annoyed the crap out of me anyway due to overexposure to anime tropes, so it's no big loss to me.

Still, it'd be nice to see more variety from Namco.
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Old 10-19-2010, 03:57 PM
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Do you think maybe the reason that Symphonia sold well is because it was the only good RPG on the Gamecube?
Skies of Arcadia, Paper Mario 2, the Baten Kaitos games, Fire Emblem 9.
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Old 10-19-2010, 03:57 PM
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Do you think maybe the reason that Symphonia sold well is because it was the only good RPG on the Gamecube?
No, there was Baten Kaitos too. And that series is dead dead dead.
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Old 10-19-2010, 03:57 PM
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Like I said, I think we'll see more of this series in the future, some of the games people pine for (Tales of Hearts, Tales of Innocence for example) just didn't even sell well in Japan.

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Well, most of the Tales titles I've played have annoyed the crap out of me anyway due to overexposure to anime tropes, so it's no big loss to me.
Not watching much anime, I guess these tropes are new hat to me?
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Old 10-19-2010, 04:06 PM
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Skies of Arcadia, Paper Mario 2, the Baten Kaitos games, Fire Emblem 9.
Games released prior to Symphonia: SoAL. PM2 did well, neither Baten Kaitos sold very well as far as I'm aware (I personally would argue this was a consequence of them not being very good) and Fire Emblem is a Strategy RPG. Symphonia comes out to a largely clear field followed by 2 RPGs in relatively rapid succession (PM2 and BK1). PM2 is a Mario game and different enough from a normal RPG not to be lumped in with them. One could argue that ToS succeeds at BKs detriment. Again, Gamecube was largely RPG starved even if one looks at its whole life rather than just what was out at the time (Lost Kingdoms 1 and 2? No thanks). Symphonia was as much in the right place at the right time as a product of marketing (I don't recall any more marketing for Symphonia than Abyss or Vesperia).
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Old 10-19-2010, 04:10 PM
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Great please tell me what these lessons were that failed to make games on completely different platforms sell,
Just because they're on different consoles doesn't mean that they somehow run on different laws of economics.

If nobody knows the game exists, it's not really going to sell much.

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even though I believe Abyss sold just fine, and even though Legendia is awful.
Estimated North American sales:

Symphonia: ~0.55 million
Symphonia 2: ~0.19 million
Abyss: ~0.00 million
Legendia: ~0.00 million (apparently Abyss and Legendia didn't sell enough copies...?)
Vesperia: ~0.24 million.

Now then, I'll admit I'm not too sure about the credibility of vgchartz, especially since Abyss and Legendia didn't have anything marked for their North American sales, so if you can find a better source I'm all ears.

But going by this, yeah, Symphonia 1 kicked the asses of everyone else. And gee, it was the most publicized.

Quote:
Please tell me what lessons would have helped Namco sell Vesperia on a platform where no one cares about JRPGs.
Fricking tell the world your game exists.

Quote:
Do you think maybe the reason that Symphonia sold well is because it was the only good RPG on the Gamecube?
If you truly believe this you're an idiot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fanboymaster
(I don't recall any more marketing for Symphonia than Abyss or Vesperia).
I still have the Nintendo Power issue where they were giving out free trading cards for pre-ordering the game or having enough nintendo points or something like that. I just remember you got trading cards. And personally speaking, that made all of the difference for me and my brother.

All I remember for Abyss and Vesperia was I saw ads on the back of Shonen Jump.
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Old 10-19-2010, 04:13 PM
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Tales games are pretty okay.
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Old 10-19-2010, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by fanboymaster View Post
neither Baten Kaitos sold very well as far as I'm aware (I personally would argue this was a consequence of them not being very good)
You would be wrong about this, but never mind. I'm not saying the Gamecube was a hotbed of RPGs because that obviously wasn't true, and the scarcity almost certainly had something to do with Symphonia's success, but to say that it stands alone as the only quality RPG on the system is a falsehood. I lived through the N64 era; I know what a real dearth of RPGs looks like.
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Old 10-19-2010, 04:18 PM
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Tales games are pretty okay.
As interested as I am in seeing how deep I've dug myself, this guy's on the right track here.

So, moving away from what Bamco should've/could've/would've done, let's move on to things they have done. Like the actual games.

I personally really liked Dawn of the New World.
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Old 10-19-2010, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by BlitzBlast View Post
Just because they're on different consoles doesn't mean that they somehow run on different laws of economics.

If nobody knows the game exists, it's not really going to sell much.

Estimated North American sales:

Symphonia: ~0.55 million
Symphonia 2: ~0.19 million
Abyss: ~0.00 million
Legendia: ~0.00 million (apparently Abyss and Legendia didn't sell enough copies...?)
Vesperia: ~0.24 million.

Now then, I'll admit I'm not too sure about the credibility of vgchartz, especially since Abyss and Legendia didn't have anything marked for their North American sales, so if you can find a better source I'm all ears.

But going by this, yeah, Symphonia 1 kicked the asses of everyone else. And gee, it was the most publicized.

Fricking tell the world your game exists.
...
I still have the Nintendo Power issue where they were giving out free trading cards for pre-ordering it or having enough nintendo points or something like that. I just remember you got trading cards.

All I remember for Abyss and Vesperia was I saw ads on the back of Shonen Jump.
Oh the souvenirs from my gamefaqs days... ahem "VGChartz is not credible". Ah, so nice to dust that off. Unlike most things from GameFaqs message boards though, that one's actually pretty useful. VGChartz doesn't source its numbers with any degree of precision, you could pull numbers out of the air with as much backing. I saw ads for Abyss and Vesperia in the usual places, game magazines, I actually saw more ads than I remember seeing for Symphonia, I'd chalk this up to the fact that Namco Bandai advertises in places that aren't a magazine they owned at the time. This is not a decent avenue of discussion though, because it is basing our assumptions of the games' respective advertising budgets on likely sketchy memories.

Quote:
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You would be wrong about this, but never mind. I'm not saying the Gamecube was a hotbed of RPGs because that obviously wasn't true, and the scarcity almost certainly had something to do with Symphonia's success, but to say that it stands alone as the only quality RPG on the system is a falsehood. I lived through the N64 era; I know what a real dearth of RPGs looks like.
You didn't like Aidyn Chronicles: The First Mage? At the time would have probably been a good appendation to Wheels statement, although it still ignores SoA it gives the idea more context.
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Old 10-19-2010, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by BlitzBlast View Post
As interested as I am in seeing how deep I've dug myself, this guy's on the right track here.

So, moving away from what Bamco should've/could've/would've done, let's move on to things they have done. Like the actual games.

I personally really liked Dawn of the New World.
I feel like DotNW was very underrated, I had a lot of fun with it. I'm playing Symphonia again as we speak.
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Old 10-19-2010, 04:28 PM
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I personally understand why so many people don't like Dawn. I mean, compared to Symphonia it's pretty bad, and the whole thing really does start slipping near the end.

I just loved how ridiculously broken Emil and Marta were.

Still can't beat 1/2 XP Unknown though.

And yeah, I know VGchartz is about as reliable as not at all, but I don't really know anywhere else that keeps tabs on this sort of thing.
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Old 10-19-2010, 04:31 PM
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Now then, I'll admit I'm not too sure about the credibility of vgchartz,
You may as well make up your own numbers. That's what they do.
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Old 10-19-2010, 04:36 PM
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Good idea.

I'm totally doing that next time I get in a debate like this.
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