The Return of Talking Time

Go Back   The Return of Talking Time > Talking about media > Talking about TV and film

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #4321  
Old 01-01-2019, 01:34 PM
Kazin's Avatar
Kazin Kazin is offline
Brain Genius
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Pronouns: he/him
Posts: 6,940
Default

Wow, that was quite good!

It had an arc and an emotional through line and themes and some good lines and a lone Dalek! I love a lone Dalek. I almost prefer a lone Dalek.

It also had references to past continuity, too... and not just Kate Stewart. The supernova at the end - that was Skaro, right? After the 7th Doctor blew it up (but before it came back somehow in Magician's Apprentice/The Witch's Familiar)? Could be wrong about that but it'd be cool.

Also kinda wanted the Doctor to say "Blackpool" at the end, but that would probably have been too fanwanky.


More of that please in the next decade!
Reply With Quote
  #4322  
Old 01-01-2019, 02:36 PM
Phantoon's Avatar
Phantoon Phantoon is offline
I Cuss You Bad
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Albion
Posts: 5,036
Default

Yes! The Doctor actually remembered she's not a pacifist and did some stuff. Not perfect but a big improvement. I quite liked the dalek design, it looked suitably cobbled together. Now begins the wait for the new series...

I've now got all the Moffatt series on bluray, I'll be working through those in the meantime.
Reply With Quote
  #4323  
Old 01-01-2019, 04:31 PM
Sprite's Avatar
Sprite Sprite is offline
Crazy Old Bird
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York
Pronouns: He/Him/His
Posts: 19,448
Default

Just watched “Kerblam!” And WOW you guys weren’t kidding.
Reply With Quote
  #4324  
Old 01-01-2019, 10:34 PM
Phantoon's Avatar
Phantoon Phantoon is offline
I Cuss You Bad
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Albion
Posts: 5,036
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprite View Post
Just watched “Kerblam!” And WOW you guys weren’t kidding.
Yeah, to me it feels like somebody completely different wrote the second half because the theme abruptly reverses and becomes kind of horrifying...
Reply With Quote
  #4325  
Old 01-06-2019, 05:27 PM
Sprite's Avatar
Sprite Sprite is offline
Crazy Old Bird
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York
Pronouns: He/Him/His
Posts: 19,448
Default

"The Witchfinders" was just painful for me to watch.
Quote:
"As King James has written in his new Bible, 'Thou shall not suffer a witch to live.'"

"In the Old Testament. There's a twist in the sequel. 'Love thy neighbor.'"
No, Doctor, you idiot, "love thy neighbor" is Leviticus.

Jesus is quoting Leviticus.

But sure, season your call for love and tolerance with a healthy dollop of antisemitism.

If you're not even going to Google the quotes you're using maybe don't make an episode about religion?
Reply With Quote
  #4326  
Old 01-07-2019, 04:22 AM
Phantoon's Avatar
Phantoon Phantoon is offline
I Cuss You Bad
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Albion
Posts: 5,036
Default

Yeah, that wasn't great.
There's a running theme with this series that it is very good at representation on the surface, then you look even slightly closer and it's borderline ugly. There are gay people, but they all swiftly wind up dead. Apparently crappy relatives should always be allowed into your life even if they a) disappeared for years on end and left your mother to do all the raising or b) invented a fake monster to stop you leaving the house while they're busy having extra dimensional sexy times
Reply With Quote
  #4327  
Old 02-01-2019, 01:24 AM
Phantoon's Avatar
Phantoon Phantoon is offline
I Cuss You Bad
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Albion
Posts: 5,036
Default

I just showed my kids the first part of Remembrance of the Daleks. Sylvester McCoy was my doctor growing up, and it's aged surprisingly well. My son was desperate for part 2 and my daughter bolted out of the room when the Imperial Dalek showed up. 80s Doctor Who's still got it!

One thing I notice that it does really well is that it references An Unearthly Child really heavily, but it's not important to enjoying the episode at all. It's added depth for those who get the references. Fan service done right.
Reply With Quote
  #4328  
Old 02-06-2019, 01:29 PM
Kazin's Avatar
Kazin Kazin is offline
Brain Genius
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Pronouns: he/him
Posts: 6,940
Default

Yeah, Remembrance did what Attack of the Cybermen wanted to do right. It really is very good Who.

Now show them Paradise Towers or The Happiness Patrol and see what they think (note: I like both of these very much, but they're usually hated).
Reply With Quote
  #4329  
Old 02-07-2019, 06:19 AM
Phantoon's Avatar
Phantoon Phantoon is offline
I Cuss You Bad
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Albion
Posts: 5,036
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazin View Post
Yeah, Remembrance did what Attack of the Cybermen wanted to do right. It really is very good Who.

Now show them Paradise Towers or The Happiness Patrol and see what they think (note: I like both of these very much, but they're usually hated).
Ooh, I'll definitely get round to them, but I've got The Curse Of Fenric and Ghost Light already bought.

How's Delta and the Bannermen?
Reply With Quote
  #4330  
Old 02-07-2019, 08:30 AM
Kazin's Avatar
Kazin Kazin is offline
Brain Genius
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Pronouns: he/him
Posts: 6,940
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantoon View Post
Ooh, I'll definitely get round to them, but I've got The Curse Of Fenric and Ghost Light already bought.

How's Delta and the Bannermen?
Well, Curse of Fenric, Ghost Light, and Remembrance of the Daleks are 7's finest imo, so those work haha. To be honest... I'm not big on Delta and the Bannermen. I mean it doesn't have a good reputation in fandom either, but despite El Sandifer's enjoyment of it, I haven't been able to come around to it. Which isn't to say it's outright awful or anything, it's just... it kinda makes me cringe if I'm honest. It's suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuper 80s, despite evoking the 50s.
Reply With Quote
  #4331  
Old 02-07-2019, 10:40 AM
Phantoon's Avatar
Phantoon Phantoon is offline
I Cuss You Bad
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Albion
Posts: 5,036
Default

It's funny, my mum hated Seven. She didn't watch it much at that point and he was there when the series died. I made her watch Ghost Light though and she's come around on him. She even likes Ace. Seven was generally disliked at the time from my experience, and it was deeply unfair.
Reply With Quote
  #4332  
Old 02-07-2019, 11:47 AM
Kazin's Avatar
Kazin Kazin is offline
Brain Genius
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Pronouns: he/him
Posts: 6,940
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantoon View Post
It's funny, my mum hated Seven. She didn't watch it much at that point and he was there when the series died. I made her watch Ghost Light though and she's come around on him. She even likes Ace. Seven was generally disliked at the time from my experience, and it was deeply unfair.
ACE RULES, BEST CLASSIC COMPANION

*ahem*

Yeah, his viewing figures were low. I was three when the series went off the air and also in America, so I have no experience from the time haha

I love the McCoy era though. Very unfairly maligned even today by fandom. It has some cheesy bits and the music can be a little grating at times but the writing and production values - especially considering the pittance they were given to make the show at the time - are really good.

Honestly, I'm a bit of a JNT era defender. Yes, there were some major, major issues (the sexual assault allegations about Gary Downie who was JNTs partner as well as some unsavory stuff about JNT himself, pretty much the entire Colin Baker era, the way things ended with Eric Saward, etc etc etc) but the Peter Davison and Sylvester McCoy eras are both really solid Who. I like 80s Who more than most of the 70s, if I'm honest.
Reply With Quote
  #4333  
Old 02-07-2019, 11:12 PM
Phantoon's Avatar
Phantoon Phantoon is offline
I Cuss You Bad
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Albion
Posts: 5,036
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazin View Post
ACE RULES, BEST CLASSIC COMPANION
You'll get no argument from me on that. She's the first one with an arc, too. And if I'd seen her take out a dalek with an Omega powered baseball bat as a kid that would have been the start of a lifelong crush.

I think something like Doctor Who has to always find an answer to the question "why do I deserve to still be on TV" and in the 80s the world had changed under it and made the question harder to answer. Star Wars changed sci fi and Doctor Who couldn't replicate the quality of its effects, making it look even cheaper than it already was. And 80s entertainment was more violent and cynical making Doctor Who's idealism look dated. Add to that Mary Whitehouse's malevolent spectre and it must have been really difficult. I think with McCoy they'd finally got a good answer to the question, but unfortunately a year or two too late.

I do need to watch more JNT stuff, Five was my Doctor when I was 7 or so, but Seven was the one that made me an actual fan.

Here's a fun question: if Seven's era hadn't happened, could Doctor Who have returned like it did? Would it have returned at all?

Last edited by Phantoon; 02-08-2019 at 02:55 AM. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote
  #4334  
Old 02-08-2019, 08:06 AM
Kazin's Avatar
Kazin Kazin is offline
Brain Genius
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Pronouns: he/him
Posts: 6,940
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantoon View Post
You'll get no argument from me on that. She's the first one with an arc, too. And if I'd seen her take out a dalek with an Omega powered baseball bat as a kid that would have been the start of a lifelong crush.

I think something like Doctor Who has to always find an answer to the question "why do I deserve to still be on TV" and in the 80s the world had changed under it and made the question harder to answer. Star Wars changed sci fi and Doctor Who couldn't replicate the quality of its effects, making it look even cheaper than it already was. And 80s entertainment was more violent and cynical making Doctor Who's idealism look dated. Add to that Mary Whitehouse's malevolent spectre and it must have been really difficult. I think with McCoy they'd finally got a good answer to the question, but unfortunately a year or two too late.

I do need to watch more JNT stuff, Five was my Doctor when I was 7 or so, but Seven was the one that made me an actual fan.

Here's a fun question: if Seven's era hadn't happened, could Doctor Who have returned like it did? Would it have returned at all?
You mean if Six was the last Doctor? I don't think it would have come back... not because of Colin Baker, of course (who was, imo, fine in the role, but got absolutely screwed by the behind the scenes problems and the mostly godawful scripts he got that, in addition to being poorly written, did not in any way play to his strengths, which is why he's actually pretty good on audio, because the man can actually act if given good material!), but because of how bad that era was and how it ended by almost literally putting the show on "trial." As you say, Seven's era made an argument for the show needing to exist when the show had spend the C. Baker era just presenting, well, crap... and outside of arguably Vengeance on Varos, the show didn't really have much to say (and even then, the show was kinda saying "tv sure is violent these days, eh? why do you, the viewer, watch this stuff?" while itself being violent, which kinda makes it seem like even the show itself thought it should be off the air).

Although the idea of Colin Baker regenerating into Paul McGann would have possibly made that movie very, very different, so who knows if it would have been any better or infinitely worse lol. I think if the show had come back after Colin Baker -> Paul McGann, it might have been a full reboot.
Reply With Quote
  #4335  
Old 02-08-2019, 08:26 AM
Daikaiju's Avatar
Daikaiju Daikaiju is offline
King Of Space-Time
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 20,398
Default

I always had a soft spot for the 3rd Doctor and Jo. She was scrappy.
Reply With Quote
  #4336  
Old 02-08-2019, 08:29 AM
Kazin's Avatar
Kazin Kazin is offline
Brain Genius
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Pronouns: he/him
Posts: 6,940
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daikaiju View Post
I always had a soft spot for the 3rd Doctor and Jo. She was scrappy.
Yeah, Jo Grant is awesome. She's my favorite Pertwee companion, as much as I like Liz Shaw (and Sarah Jane is so much better with Tom Baker). Check out the Sarah Jane Adventures episode "Death of the Doctor" if you're a Jo fan, if you haven't already
Reply With Quote
  #4337  
Old 02-08-2019, 12:18 PM
Phantoon's Avatar
Phantoon Phantoon is offline
I Cuss You Bad
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Albion
Posts: 5,036
Default

Jo Grant is indeed awesome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazin View Post
Although the idea of Colin Baker regenerating into Paul McGann would have possibly made that movie very, very different, so who knows if it would have been any better or infinitely worse lol. I think if the show had come back after Colin Baker -> Paul McGann, it might have been a full reboot.
Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. I think Doctor Who would have come back once way or another, but a reboot is what we'd have got.

There's more to the "would Doctor Who have come back without Seven?" question, too. After the series finished there were the Virgin New Adventures books, some of which were shockingly good, and kept the fandom alive. And the writers included people like Russell T. Davies who went on to greater things. I don't think Six as he was on TV could have sustained that.

I remember getting Timewyrm: Exodus when it came out, and it wasn't what I was expecting at all. In the best possible way. Human Nature is also brilliant (with a tiny assist from a Steven Moffat). Even Andrew Cartmel wrote some. Now Doctor Who isn't dead it can retrospectively look like a golden age.
Reply With Quote
  #4338  
Old 02-08-2019, 01:38 PM
Kazin's Avatar
Kazin Kazin is offline
Brain Genius
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Pronouns: he/him
Posts: 6,940
Default

I've bought several of those New Adventures books - I think I own about 2/3rds of them - and many are very, very good. Damaged Goods, Russell T Davies, book, might be my favorite of the bunch honestly. It's really good (as is the audio adaptation). It kind of is a golden age, the Virgin era, even with its excesses - the very first book has the Doctor telling Ace sexual assault is okay because of the era they were in/underage topless girls (fuck you John Peel - Timewyrm Genesys is so *bad*), Cat's Cradle: Time's Crucible is incomprehensible and dull, etc. But Paul Cornell's stuff like Timewyrm: Revelation and yes, Human Nature... they're some of the best Who there is. I've only read one of her books so far, but Kate Orman is apparently a standout as well (the one I read, The Left-Handed Hummingbird, was a trippy, interesting read).

I could go on. I've come to really like that era. I think you're right, I don't think Six as he was on TV could have sustained the book line. I've read a few Six books and they've been alright, but they don't come close to the heights of what I've read of the Virgin New Adventures.

Cold Fusion, of the Missing Adventures, also rules, as does its audio adaptation.

I really wish more of the VNAs were available digitally - heck, I wish the same for the 8th Doctor Adventures, even knowing they usually weren't nearly as good as the VNAs.
Reply With Quote
  #4339  
Old 02-08-2019, 02:37 PM
Phantoon's Avatar
Phantoon Phantoon is offline
I Cuss You Bad
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Albion
Posts: 5,036
Default

I need to get Damaged Goods, Timewyrm: Revelation and The Left Handed Hummingbird...
Reply With Quote
  #4340  
Old 02-08-2019, 05:01 PM
Teaspoon's Avatar
Teaspoon Teaspoon is offline
This way up
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Here, there and everywhere
Posts: 3,967
Default

Damaged Goods is fab. Revelation is overrated. Hummer is...weird and not great from a racial viewpoint, but it's Orman's first book and she's desperate to cram all sorts of intriguing weirdness into it.
Reply With Quote
  #4341  
Old 02-08-2019, 06:31 PM
Kazin's Avatar
Kazin Kazin is offline
Brain Genius
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Pronouns: he/him
Posts: 6,940
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teaspoon View Post
Damaged Goods is fab. Revelation is overrated. Hummer is...weird and not great from a racial viewpoint, but it's Orman's first book and she's desperate to cram all sorts of intriguing weirdness into it.
I mean it's not as good as Human Nature, but I really enjoyed Revelation. Cornell topped himself several times in the NAs, though. Love and War was probably better, too.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bad wolf , basically run , bbc , capaldimania , dalektable , danny divito , derpy is best companion , doctor who , i'm the tin dog , jackie is a selling point , literal slap in the face , london 1965 , reverse gender polarity , reverse the polarity , sci-fi , serious , tardis , television , time travel , timey wimey stuff

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Your posts ©you, 2007