The Return of Talking Time

Go Back   The Return of Talking Time > Talking about other things > Talking about creating

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #91  
Old 02-27-2018, 07:58 AM
Mogri's Avatar
Mogri Mogri is offline
Yes, let's feast!
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Pronouns: he
Posts: 16,440
Default



New Paladin, much better than old Paladin.

I offered no input on the character designs -- originally, I had indicated that I wanted a male and female version of each character, but I ended up needing the reverse side of hero cards for the damage trackers -- so I'm happy with the representation that I got out of them. Two out of five heroes are female; two out of five are POC. I have heard from several people (one of them black) who could not positively identify the Paladin as black, though, likely due to the lighting. Oh well -- the Ranger is very obviously dark-skinned.
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 02-27-2018, 02:47 PM
Mogri's Avatar
Mogri Mogri is offline
Yes, let's feast!
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Pronouns: he
Posts: 16,440
Default

Oh by the way: the game is publicly available as a TTS mod now. I am floored that it already has 32 subscribers. I wonder how many of them have played the game.
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 04-12-2018, 07:02 AM
Mogri's Avatar
Mogri Mogri is offline
Yes, let's feast!
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Pronouns: he
Posts: 16,440
Default

Votes are in.

Short version: Deck of Many Dungeons did very well, landing near the top of all of the many categories it was eligible for with the exception of "Most Unique" and "Best New Designer." (Maybe I seemed too experienced.)

Either I severely underestimated Dolphin Overlord, or they did some serious votebombing: it wound up first or second in every category it appeared in. I'm going with the latter, since there's no world in which it has better art and graphic design.

The voting only awards GeekGold; the final results aren't in yet. The host says:

Quote:
The Side Room Games team is working on picking our jury prize winners. We've narrowed it down to a top 5-6 games and we're going to meet this weekend to pick our top 2. I've played all of the games but the other gents on the team missed out on a few during the testing and we want to get a good consensus. We should have the final jury prize selections posted by Sunday night. (On top of that, I'm confident that we want to try to sign a couple of games beyond the top 2!)
That's not a guarantee, but it's pretty promising.

I'm planning a follow-up release now that the contest is over. There are a couple rule tweaks I'd like to make, and now that we're not beholden to a strict component limit, I can also do things like make alternate versions of the heroes, giving them different starting abilities.

I'm very happy with the voting results (especially if you take Dolphin Overlord out of the equation), and I'm optimistic about our chances for signing.
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 04-13-2018, 07:23 AM
JBear's Avatar
JBear JBear is offline
Um Actually oil outlaw
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Fredericton, NB, Canada
Pronouns: He/Him
Posts: 13,700
Default

Grats! Good luck with the selection!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogri View Post
or they did some serious votebombing
I mean, we could have done that if someone had let us know that voting was open.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogri View Post
now that we're not beholden to a strict component limit, I can also do things like make alternate versions of the heroes, giving them different starting abilities.
I'd make coming up with an alternative HP-tracking system a high priority. Yours was elegant within the confines, but the game could definitely benefit from something a bit less fiddly/cumbersome.
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 04-13-2018, 07:28 AM
Mogri's Avatar
Mogri Mogri is offline
Yes, let's feast!
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Pronouns: he
Posts: 16,440
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBear View Post
I mean, we could have done that if someone had let us know that voting was open.
I am glad that you did not. To hit top 3 in most categories as voted by total strangers is much more impressive than determining who has the most friends.

In any case, a prerequisite for voting is to have played some of the other games.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JBear View Post
I'd make coming up with an alternative HP-tracking system a high priority. Yours was elegant within the confines, but the game could definitely benefit from something a bit less fiddly/cumbersome.
Yes, that's on the map.

The damage tracker was not nearly as fiddly as the tracking for multiple opponents. "Grab an extra card, I dunno" was definitely the weak link in the rules.
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 04-13-2018, 07:35 AM
JBear's Avatar
JBear JBear is offline
Um Actually oil outlaw
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Fredericton, NB, Canada
Pronouns: He/Him
Posts: 13,700
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogri View Post
In any case, a prerequisite for voting is to have played some of the other games.
We could have done that too! Loki always used to ask folks to play a bunch of other entries when it was time to vote on the Windhammer prize.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogri View Post
The damage tracker was not nearly as fiddly as the tracking for multiple opponents. "Grab an extra card, I dunno" was definitely the weak link in the rules.
Yeah, I'd forgotten that, but you're absolutely correct. That's more obviously fixable, though (have dedicated generic tracking cards for additional monsters).
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 04-25-2018, 01:41 PM
Mogri's Avatar
Mogri Mogri is offline
Yes, let's feast!
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Pronouns: he
Posts: 16,440
Default

Deck of Many Dungeons didn't place in the jury's top two. The contest organizer sent out his feedback today:

Quote:
Here are the major notes we had on your game. If you have any questions just let us know.

Really liked the ideas in the game. The ability to maneuver through encounters, equipping successfully defeated enemies/encounters, and the progression to bosses are all well thought out

The idea of the mini deck with attack values & suits is cool, but there is a ton of shuffling and the ability to fish through the deck multiple times to get the cards you need may be too powerful

One major issue we had: I picked a set up of the bard and warrior and got wiped out in every encounter we had. Iím not sure if this was a fluke or not, but I was hitting as hard as the warrior could, plus I fixed an attack ability on the bard. And we still lost every fight. It appears that there are some balancing issues; might need to pump up the heroes & nerf the enemies a little bit. I think the game should be challenging but it currently feels impossible

Great work on the art! And the graphic design on the encounter cards is well done.

Overall we liked the game but it felt like it needs some tweaking to balance it out. Iíd even suggest taking it from only cards to cards with a couple of dice & maybe a few counters. While you did a great job making it fit into the contest parameters it feels like you need to expand it slightly component-wise to make it really shine

If you continue to work on it keep us posted. It definitely has potential and there is a market for this type of game. Thanks again!
First, this strikes me as overwhelmingly positive feedback. It sounds like the one major issue he had was the difficulty.

Second, doesn't it sound like he played it wrong? He says he picked the Bard and the Warrior, but if he's playing solo, he should have three heroes.

I replied as follows:

Quote:
Thanks for the feedback. You said you picked the Bard and the Warrior, but you should have three heroes in a solo game. Did I misunderstand? If you only used two heroes, it's very understandable that you found the game too difficult!

Designing within the limitations of the contest was fun, but I'm definitely planning on expanding out the components. The game really wants damage counters instead of the tracker and extra cards to track minions/extra targets. The current plan is 60 cards and a handful of chits -- still small enough to fit in a larger tuckbox.
I haven't heard back from him yet. I doubt he'll slap his face, give the game another try, and award us an honorary first place when he finds out the game isn't impossible, but he did ask me to keep him apprised of any updates, which suggests that he is interested in the game.

Meanwhile, my brother and I are exploring our other publishing options. I'm in the process of revising bits of the game here and there -- for example, Bull Rush has been replaced with Reckless Charge, an attack that does X+3 damage at the cost of X-2 health. Once that's done, we'll probably send out pitches to a few publishers, falling back on Kickstarter if nothing else pans out. One way or another, we're gonna do our best to get this printed (ideally not going bankrupt in the process).
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 04-25-2018, 07:36 PM
Mogri's Avatar
Mogri Mogri is offline
Yes, let's feast!
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Pronouns: he
Posts: 16,440
Default

He replied:
Quote:
Wow, I feel dumb.

Out of curiosity, even with three whatís your survival rate? It seems like it would still be tough.

I think our major thoughts still apply with the exception it might not be as impossible as we thought. Again, great job on the design. Keep us posted on your progress!

I told him:
Quote:
With a full team, I get a ~80% win rate on the standard difficulty (two minor bosses, one major boss), although even that's deceiving, because the other 20% is mostly when I get sloppy and the Mage dies before the first boss -- in that case, I concede rather than play it out.

Even with two heroes, it's really surprising to me that you would have so much trouble with the regular combat. Ideally, with a full party, you should get through many combats taking only 1-2 damage; if you anticipate taking 4 or more, you should run unless there's a really important ability up for grabs. Of course, estimating that ahead of time requires more familiarity and understanding than you'll get when you're trying to print and play 40 different games inside of a month

In earlier iterations, the game was much easier. I went through two rounds of making everything hit harder across the board. I think the Cryohydra and Kobolds are still just a little too hard, but the difficulty is for the most part in a really good place. The nature of the solo/co-op genre is such that it's better to err on the too-difficult side, but then I'd also rather not have players strike out on their first combat.

The game is currently undergoing revisions -- you can read about some of the changes in the WIP thread -- and I'm working on getting everything publish-ready. You should subscribe to that thread if you're not already, especially if you think Side Room might like to pick this up when it's gotten a few more layers of polish.

I want to say that out of all of the playtesting groups, only one or two of them lost a game. Of course, many of those plays were before I bumped up the difficulty, but even the losses managed to beat a boss or two.
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 12-05-2018, 09:58 AM
Mogri's Avatar
Mogri Mogri is offline
Yes, let's feast!
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Pronouns: he
Posts: 16,440
Default

OK hello again

It's been a few months, huh? Let's see what's happening.

OH NOT MUCH JUST PITCHING TO A PUBLISHER

Am I nervous? Heck yes! Do I expect to be rejected out of hand? Yeah, probably! Am I planning to keep pitching until someone bites? Yep!


But here's what's happened in the meantime:
  • Since I'm not bound by the limitations of the 54-card contest, I've added damage counters and extra cards to indicate extra targets.
  • And that frees up the backs of the hero cards, so each hero is getting an alternate. Here's Bard A and Bard B:
  • I revised some hero abilities for balance reasons, since I found that some abilities were underperforming.
  • And I'm really just burying the lede here, because the most biggest change is that the game is now 1-4 players instead of 1-2. With more than two players, each player controls a single hero, and players discard and redraw only once per Discard Phase instead of twice. Hand size is 3 for three players and 2 for four players, but otherwise, 3-4 is the same as the two-player game.
  • To support the change in player count, you no longer lose due to dead heroes unless all heroes have died. Relatedly, boss spoils can now revive a dead hero.


The victim of my first attempt is APE Games, who have published other dungeon crawlers such as The Stygian Society and the Order of the Stick games.


To aid in the pitch, I've thrown together a concept document and a video tutorial. I am not great at video editing, so it's just an okay video tutorial, but also if there were a video tutorial ten months ago, I'm pretty sure the guy running the contest would've played it correctly. So there's that.

Of course, the rulebook has also undergone major revisions.

Wish me all of the luck! I will need it!
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 12-05-2018, 10:09 AM
Patrick's Avatar
Patrick Patrick is offline
of the Black Falcons
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Pronouns: he, him
Posts: 19,504
Default

Best of luck!
Reply With Quote
  #101  
Old 12-05-2018, 10:45 AM
JBear's Avatar
JBear JBear is offline
Um Actually oil outlaw
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Fredericton, NB, Canada
Pronouns: He/Him
Posts: 13,700
Default

I noticed you playing this in Steam just the other day.

Also, is that Slime art you tweeted out new, or have I seen it before and forgotten? Anyway, it's rad as heck!

Good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 12-05-2018, 12:35 PM
Mogri's Avatar
Mogri Mogri is offline
Yes, let's feast!
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Pronouns: he
Posts: 16,440
Default

Possibly neither! You playtested with placeholder art, so you might not have seen the latest and greatest, but that art has been around since the game was contest-ready. If I had to guess, I'd say you've probably seen the pencils for Slime, but the full-color blows that out of the water.

The full card art is available in the PnP PDF.

(The Slime in question: )
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 12-07-2018, 12:07 PM
Mogri's Avatar
Mogri Mogri is offline
Yes, let's feast!
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Pronouns: he
Posts: 16,440
Default

Two days later: my first rejection letter! I'm so proud!

My next victim is Victory Point Games. They've changed their submission process since the last time I looked; it's now a form instead of "email us this stuff at this address."

Their submissions page says they're looking for:
  • Games for adults (ages 14+) that engage brains via challenges that are overcome by meaningful decision making and player skill
  • Games that feature conflict in a historical, alt-history, science fiction, or even fantasy genre
  • Gameplay that provides a compelling history or story narrative
  • Solitaire games
  • Games with good ergonomics
  • Games with an appropriate number of physical components (based on their level of engagement and optimal price point)
  • Well developed and extensively play tested designs

For adults? Sure. Engaging brains? Why not. Challenges overcome by skill? Yep.

Conflict in a fantasy genre? That is what this is.

Compelling narrative? I don't know. The narrative is certainly there, but it's procedural instead of predetermined (like the time JBear kept finding exploding chests).

Solitaire? Check. In the original design, it was solely solitaire.

Ergonomics? I don't know what they're aiming for with this. Let's plead the fifth here.

Appropriate number of components? Big check.

Well developed and extensively play tested? I'd like to think so.


So I'm feeling optimistic about this one. My understanding is that VPG is generally more willing than most publishers to use pre-existing art if you have it, so whereas Jim's excellent illustrations would be value-neutral to many publishers, it's very welcome here.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 12-08-2018, 11:46 PM
aturtledoesbite's Avatar
aturtledoesbite aturtledoesbite is offline
earthquake ace
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Pronouns: Any
Posts: 17,373
Default

Good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 12-12-2018, 09:11 AM
Mogri's Avatar
Mogri Mogri is offline
Yes, let's feast!
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Pronouns: he
Posts: 16,440
Default

We've got publisher interest!

I'm not going to quote the whole email here, but the short version is that he wants to run it by some people to see where they can fit it into a publishing schedule.

Highlights:
  • He praises the amount of depth the game gets from its limited components.
  • He mentions the game is properly themed to market and sell and explains itself and demos easily.
  • He calls it a "'non-light' filler" with "good 'walk by' appeal that will turn non-gamers' heads and get them to stop and ask about it."

Money quote: "You have a masterful achievement in game design and I salute you!"


I couldn't be more excited.
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 12-12-2018, 09:20 AM
JBear's Avatar
JBear JBear is offline
Um Actually oil outlaw
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Fredericton, NB, Canada
Pronouns: He/Him
Posts: 13,700
Default

Awesome! Congrats! Hopefully it leads to something concrete!
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 12-12-2018, 10:48 AM
Kirin's Avatar
Kirin Kirin is offline
Not a Beer
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NC
Pronouns: he/him (usually)
Posts: 21,485
Default

Woo! Congratulations!
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 12-13-2018, 04:58 AM
jpfriction's Avatar
jpfriction jpfriction is offline
Outraged!
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Almost, but not quite, in ND
Posts: 4,275
Default

Congrats! Thatís really cool.
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 12-13-2018, 02:57 PM
Destil's Avatar
Destil Destil is offline
Naughty List
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Tucson, AZ
Pronouns: he / him
Posts: 23,212
Default

U designin: GOOD
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 12-13-2018, 08:39 PM
Red Silvers's Avatar
Red Silvers Red Silvers is offline
That Pokemon Guy
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 4,823
Default

Awesome!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Your posts ©you, 2007