The Return of Talking Time

Go Back   The Return of Talking Time > Talking about media > Talking about books

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #991  
Old 10-25-2017, 04:55 PM
muteKi's Avatar
muteKi muteKi is online now
an eeling of Christmas
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Green chile cheeseburger capital of the world
Posts: 9,956
Default

Yes I agree that the specific comic in question is one that could have gone a long way to actually interrogate the content it attempts to cover, I struggle to see how well those specific subjects could ever be integrated into a comic of this sort. I think more discussion of boundaries when things start crossing into larger public life is worth discussing though, much as how browsing pornography in public (i.e., at work) can be considered sexual harassment
Reply With Quote
  #992  
Old 10-25-2017, 04:59 PM
four-so's Avatar
four-so four-so is offline
All are Santa Saturn
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3,104
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by madhair60 View Post
I still like Penny Arcade, it makes me happy. Sorry.
This.

The comics are hit or miss but that pretty much describes every goddamn thing.
Reply With Quote
  #993  
Old 10-25-2017, 10:24 PM
Juno's Avatar
Juno Juno is offline
Mistress Greywolfe
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Nowhere, WA
Posts: 4,888
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by estragon View Post
The way that's phrased means that this does not deserve it, so I'm pretty baffled to see anyone here post that or agree with it.

In my opinion, enormous corporations buying little studios to lay people off is very bad and worth getting angry about.

A broken clock, etc. etc.
It's not about whether they are right or wrong on this, or whether they're criticizing something worth criticizing (to be clear, I think EA's actions are absolutely worth criticism).

The problem is that at this point pretty much anytime PA gets angry about something that's worth getting angry about, it feels completely hollow to me. They've lost all credibility in my eyes. It's like when a shitbag politician criticizes another shitbag politician. They're the last people I want to hear speaking on this.

Like, my immediate reaction when I saw that comic is that PA didn't actually care about the people hurt by EA's actions and only cared they didn't get the game they wanted, because much of PA's history has been defined by callous arrogance in service of their own selfishness.

There are far better people to listen to about shitty practices by gaming corporations. Voices like PA are not worth taking seriously, even when they happen to be right, because we should not be elevating toxic assholes.
Reply With Quote
  #994  
Old 10-25-2017, 10:30 PM
estragon's Avatar
estragon estragon is offline
この世の最も無智なる者
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 15,468
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Juno View Post
It's not about whether they are right or wrong on this, or whether they're criticizing something worth criticizing (to be clear, I think EA's actions are absolutely worth criticism).

The problem is that at this point pretty much anytime PA gets angry about something that's worth getting angry about, it feels completely hollow to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by estragon View Post
No one is saying they aren't hypocrites, or that they're not bad on other issues.
If you want to call them hypocrites for other things they have and haven't done, I'm 100% on board!
Reply With Quote
  #995  
Old 10-25-2017, 10:59 PM
Sarcasmorator's Avatar
Sarcasmorator Sarcasmorator is offline
Space dad
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 15,648
Default

If you like Penny Arcade still, great! I'm not saying you shouldn't. But it's not for me anymore.
Reply With Quote
  #996  
Old 10-26-2017, 01:11 AM
four-so's Avatar
four-so four-so is offline
All are Santa Saturn
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3,104
Default

Yeah, I never really expect Penny Arcade to say much about anything. I mean, that's not the point I go there. I like the faux-intellectual self-important way Jerry writes the tri-weekly updates, and then the comic is just something for me to chuckle at and move on to the next site. Out of sight, out of mind.

They can say whatever they want. I've never taken it seriously in the first place. Intellectual criticism has its place. Penny Arcade is for dick jokes and general dumbassery.
Reply With Quote
  #997  
Old 10-29-2017, 08:02 AM
LBD_Nytetrayn's Avatar
LBD_Nytetrayn LBD_Nytetrayn is offline
..and his little cat, too
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 8,570
Default

I wouldn't even remember this one if everyone wasn't talking about it.

On another note, strange thing: I can't seem to get any of those older strips you guys are linking to load.
Reply With Quote
  #998  
Old 10-29-2017, 08:36 AM
Sprite's Avatar
Sprite Sprite is offline
Crazy Old Bird
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 18,307
Default

I haven't read Penny Arcade in years but I will forever love this strip:

Reply With Quote
  #999  
Old 10-29-2017, 10:51 AM
Parish's Avatar
Parish Parish is offline
Your life is forfeit
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rally, Nerf Cackolacka
Posts: 11,263
Default

I have never seen that strip, but it is Very Good.
Reply With Quote
  #1000  
Old 10-30-2017, 10:44 AM
shivam's Avatar
shivam shivam is offline
gatchapon 3*
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Mateo
Posts: 24,074
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcasmorator View Post
If you like Penny Arcade still, great! I'm not saying you shouldn't. But it's not for me anymore.
The center panel here is one of my all time favorite pieces of media anywhere.
Reply With Quote
  #1001  
Old 11-24-2017, 06:55 PM
Serephine's Avatar
Serephine Serephine is offline
contains words & diagrams
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 10,121
Default

I hate how every time I think it's safe to go back into the water you get a comic like from Wednesday where the punchline is "I'm an old man who doesn't like Polygon.com, PS eat at Subway" and I'm just like, at what point in our development as adults did Jerry and I go in widely divergent paths? And then I remember that one of us actually learned something from that whole shitshow a few years back.
Reply With Quote
  #1002  
Old 11-24-2017, 07:23 PM
Dawnswalker's Avatar
Dawnswalker Dawnswalker is offline
Love and Peace
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,827
Default

You'd think they'd be nicer to Polygon, seeing as they picked up many of the staff who lost their jobs when PA Report folded.

And why is it always Polygon? I don't recall them ever calling Mike or Jerry out in a particularly nasty manner (including the times when they probably should have.)
Reply With Quote
  #1003  
Old 11-24-2017, 07:37 PM
conchobhar's Avatar
conchobhar conchobhar is offline
[kɾoˈxuːɾ]
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Snowy climes of Canada
Posts: 2,622
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawnswalker View Post
And why is it always Polygon? I don't recall them ever calling Mike or Jerry out in a particularly nasty manner (including the times when they probably should have.)
Polygon is known for its cultural criticism of nerd media, which means that in certain circles it's derided as an "SJW" site. And Penny Arcade has, consistently, made dog whistles towards this crowd.
Reply With Quote
  #1004  
Old 11-24-2017, 08:32 PM
The Raider Dr. Jones's Avatar
The Raider Dr. Jones The Raider Dr. Jones is offline
Oily Butt Thing
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bull City
Posts: 10,659
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawnswalker View Post
And why is it always Polygon?
It used to be IGN, but I think IGN got too boring to use as a regular target some time in the last several years.
Reply With Quote
  #1005  
Old 11-24-2017, 09:09 PM
Serephine's Avatar
Serephine Serephine is offline
contains words & diagrams
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 10,121
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by conchobhar View Post
Polygon is known for its cultural criticism of nerd media, which means that in certain circles it's derided as an "SJW" site. And Penny Arcade has, consistently, made dog whistles towards this crowd.
Yeah, that's kind of what's blowing my mind here. I've been vaguely following the post episode recaps in the thread here and /yo apparently Marvel's The Punisher Exclusively on Netflix isn't that great according to a lot of yall/, so like, why is that the particular hill the one where they want to erect a crucifix? Not just offer a measured critical response, but to use this particular disagreement of opinion as the reason to use Penny Arcade as the forum wherein they want to promote this kind of message, which is "yo fuck Polygon". Like, are they upset Polygon fired a serial harasser?

It's this kind of shit that gets my hackles up and I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw it. Back on the corpse cart with you Penny Arcade.
Reply With Quote
  #1006  
Old 11-24-2017, 09:14 PM
estragon's Avatar
estragon estragon is offline
この世の最も無智なる者
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 15,468
Default

In the very dumb accompanying text post, Jerry is mad because he thinks Polygon's punisher review is, basically, too pretentious. He thinks this because it places the show in a larger context, instead of just focusing on the show itself. Like many capital-G Gamers, the PA guys do not recognize any style of writing as legitimate other than a consumer reports style breakdown.
Reply With Quote
  #1007  
Old 11-24-2017, 09:28 PM
will's Avatar
will will is offline
>TRANCE
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: They / Them
Posts: 2,264
Default

They explicitly said Hey gameragrad you're doing a good thing, so ...
Reply With Quote
  #1008  
Old 11-25-2017, 07:37 AM
Mr. Sensible's Avatar
Mr. Sensible Mr. Sensible is offline
Spear of Justice
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: VA/TN
Posts: 4,915
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by estragon View Post
In the very dumb accompanying text post, Jerry is mad because he thinks Polygon's punisher review is, basically, too pretentious.
This coming from Jerry is pretty fucking rich
Reply With Quote
  #1009  
Old 11-26-2017, 01:14 PM
Ample Vigour's Avatar
Ample Vigour Ample Vigour is offline
Merry Christmas, Ma
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 22,210
Default

PA has a powerful business interest in teaching their readers to reflexively discount any entertainment media that isn't Penny Arcade Amalgamated Humor Industries, LLC.

Shit like this always has two audiences. The first is the consumer, who has to be trained to rely on PA for news and recommendations. The second is the industry, who are reminded that PA does undisclosed advertorial content for very reasonable rates.
Reply With Quote
  #1010  
Old 11-26-2017, 02:02 PM
The Raider Dr. Jones's Avatar
The Raider Dr. Jones The Raider Dr. Jones is offline
Oily Butt Thing
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bull City
Posts: 10,659
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ample Vigour View Post
PA has a powerful business interest in teaching their readers to reflexively discount any entertainment media that isn't Penny Arcade Amalgamated Humor Industries, LLC.
I would be really interested to know whether the strip and the site, separate from the event-running arm of the business, is bringing in newer, younger readers, or whether that audience is just steadily aging into their 40s with the creators.
Reply With Quote
  #1011  
Old 11-26-2017, 05:58 PM
Ample Vigour's Avatar
Ample Vigour Ample Vigour is offline
Merry Christmas, Ma
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 22,210
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Raider Dr. Jones View Post
I would be really interested to know whether the strip and the site, separate from the event-running arm of the business, is bringing in newer, younger readers, or whether that audience is just steadily aging into their 40s with the creators.
Brings Gareb Shamus's Wizard World pivot to front of mind.
Reply With Quote
  #1012  
Old 11-26-2017, 08:35 PM
four-so's Avatar
four-so four-so is offline
All are Santa Saturn
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3,104
Default

If anything, Penny Arcade should critique Polygon's unnecessary editorializing, like half the shit Ben Kuchera writes.
Reply With Quote
  #1013  
Old 11-26-2017, 09:14 PM
estragon's Avatar
estragon estragon is offline
この世の最も無智なる者
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 15,468
Default

"Unnecessary" compared to what?

I'm having trouble comprehending that suggestion, because I am struggling to find any standard to explain why Polygon's articles are "unnecessary" that doesn't apply just as equally or even more so to everything Jerry has written for the past decade.

(I'm not particularly into much of Polygon's written content. If I want writing in that general genre — and I do! — I think Kotaku and Waypoint do a much better job. But I think it's fine that they write articles, whether they interest me or not. I really don't get the "stop writing these unnecessary articles!!!" complaint that you see so often in nerd culture.)
Reply With Quote
  #1014  
Old 11-26-2017, 10:29 PM
four-so's Avatar
four-so four-so is offline
All are Santa Saturn
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3,104
Default

"Unnecessary" wasn't intended to be any kind of objective factoid, so I don't know how to answer that. Unnecessary compared to the stuff I personally find interesting? Dunno. I primarily use most gaming sites - Polygon, Kotaku, USgamer, etc. - for preview information on upcoming titles and sometimes for industry buzz. Reviews aren't something I care a great deal about and I usually glance at opinion pieces if they look relevant to me. So, my comment is mostly just snark, less about Polygon, which is fine on the whole, and more about Kuchera's opinion output. YMMV, understandably. (And it could just be Kuchera in particular. I've disagreed with Kat on USgamer about more than a few things but I don't ever feel like she's wasting my time.)

Jerry is forgiven for his flights of fancy because I find them entertaining, if not necessarily humorous. (And sometimes they're humorous in a way that I'm pretty sure is unintended.) Groan-worthy? Sometimes. Pretentious? Usually. But "pretentious and entertaining" ranks higher for me personally than "pretentious and superfluous." (I'm referring to the writing on the landing page, not the comics. The comics are still batting better than average but not usually for anything they have to "say" about games.)

On a related note, I wish Mike would do more of the writing.
Reply With Quote
  #1015  
Old 11-28-2017, 12:00 PM
The Raider Dr. Jones's Avatar
The Raider Dr. Jones The Raider Dr. Jones is offline
Oily Butt Thing
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Bull City
Posts: 10,659
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ample Vigour View Post
Brings Gareb Shamus's Wizard World pivot to front of mind.
Wizard figured out sooner than most that Content was a bad business to be in and getting worse.

(coincidentally, it seems like just about all of PA's major missteps and failures, the ones that didn't come out of Mike's fat yap, involved the notion that maybe Content would be a good business to get into after all.)
Reply With Quote
  #1016  
Old 11-28-2017, 12:36 PM
madhair60's Avatar
madhair60 madhair60 is offline
New Video World is out!
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 14,630
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by will View Post
They explicitly said Hey gameragrad you're doing a good thing, so ...
I don't believe this is true. I've found two instances of it being mentioned by them, one reproduced below and another in video form in which Jerry describes staying silent towards GG as "letting the terrorists win".

Newspost

Quote:
It is the height of ridiculousness that I feel compelled to come down on one side or another of the “death threats” issue. Like Danny Glover, I am too old for this shit. One of the ways you know I am too old is that I make references Danny Glover. Here’s what’s going on: a distilled form of Abuse is being iterated on a profound and gruesome scale. Such people cannot be allowed to win. Ever.

You can’t threaten people with death, and I resent very strongly being made to type that out. Not only can you not do that because you can’t fucking do it, it has the power to obliterate everything else you say. In fact, it obliterates everything the people around you are trying to say. That’s what has happened now. I know that this situation is more complex than anyone is willing to enunciate. I know that “Gaming Journalism” is a contradiction in terms. But they’ve broken your banner, now, and you helped them do it. I grieve for the ones who tried to do it right. When your media doesn’t represent you, or actively attacks you as it has here, it’s not your media. You’ll have to make your own, and it’s not impossible. It’s more possible now than it has ever been in human history, and you’re reading an example of it at this moment. Go your own way.

I’ve enunciated a reasonable position though, right? That you can’t threaten people’s lives? Watch me get crucified for it; let my crossbeams be made from two sturdy hashtags.
I know I'm the guy who always defends PA, but I don't see much distinction between this Polygon comic and the GamesRadar/EGM/IGN/Gameinformer stuff they've always done.
Reply With Quote
  #1017  
Old 11-28-2017, 12:49 PM
estragon's Avatar
estragon estragon is offline
この世の最も無智なる者
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 15,468
Default

You may not remember this, but "I condemn vaguely defined death threats and won't say they're related to GG, but also this coordinated harassment campaign is Actually a complicated issue and now let's talk about what this is really about: ethics in game journalism" was the bog standard pro-GG line at the time that post was written.

The way it concludes by circling around to proclaim himself the real victim here is some real deep scumbag behavior.

Last edited by estragon; 11-28-2017 at 01:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #1018  
Old 11-28-2017, 12:58 PM
conchobhar's Avatar
conchobhar conchobhar is offline
[kɾoˈxuːɾ]
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Snowy climes of Canada
Posts: 2,622
Default

That blog post isn't a denunciation of GG so much as their abusive 'tactics'. Everything after "you can't threaten people with death" is Jerry saying "but actually there's a good movement here that we shouldn't condemn".
Reply With Quote
  #1019  
Old 11-28-2017, 12:58 PM
chud_666's Avatar
chud_666 chud_666 is offline
120 Days
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Salo
Posts: 7,988
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by four-so View Post
If anything, Penny Arcade should critique Polygon's unnecessary editorializing, like half the shit Ben Kuchera writes.
Didn't he work for them?
Reply With Quote
  #1020  
Old 11-28-2017, 01:00 PM
madhair60's Avatar
madhair60 madhair60 is offline
New Video World is out!
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 14,630
Default

To my memory, the pro-GG line was "GG is about journalism and it's fucked up that all of us are being called harrassers", which is not what's written here outside of a very bad faith reading. Also it's pretty disingenuous to call these "vaguely defined death threats" when there's literally nothing else it could be.

I don't think it's the best statement in the world but I don't think it's "explicitly (saying) Hey gameragrad you're doing a good thing". Quite the opposite in fact.

Not interested in arguing the toss about it (I'm sick) and we're probably never going to agree on this. "A distilled form of Abuse is being iterated on a profound and gruesome scale. Such people cannot be allowed to win. Ever." That's pro-GG to you?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
didn't read but hate it , i have all the games , penny arcade , webcomic

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Your posts ©you, 2007