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  #151  
Old 08-08-2012, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Karrius View Post
There are actually tournaments run where you're given a set amount of points and gold to build characters with, and then the AI handles the fighting for both players.

http://ffhacktics.com/smf/index.php?board=37.0
That is pretty cool, Karrius; thanks for the link!
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  #152  
Old 08-08-2012, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Tangent Vector View Post
Well, in that case I'd expect there to be an FFT battle simulator out there somewhere.
http://www.slimesalad.com/fft/

(it's a little buggy)

(no one actually files bug reports, so I haven't actually fixed the bugs)

(Mime doesn't do anything)
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  #153  
Old 08-08-2012, 01:37 PM
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A FFT Battle Simulator, eh? Sign me up. When I get home from work, that is. PS, I file bug reports when I find bugs.
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  #154  
Old 08-08-2012, 01:50 PM
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http://www.slimesalad.com/wiki/FFT:Bugs if you would be so kind.
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  #155  
Old 08-09-2012, 08:48 PM
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As it turns out I don't have time for this right now. But I've bookmarked it for later use.
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  #156  
Old 10-02-2012, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Brickroad View Post
Breath of Fire 3 did! Feign Swing is an ability that literally does nothing.
It made me laugh. The same guy teaches Backhand, I think, which is the same strength as a normal attack but will never actually kill an enemy, leaving them with one HP instead.
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  #157  
Old 10-02-2012, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Coinspinner View Post
It made me laugh. The same guy teaches Backhand, I think, which is the same strength as a normal attack but will never actually kill an enemy, leaving them with one HP instead.
BoF3 and 4 have an enemy skill you can learn called Bad Back which also does nothing. In both cases, the skill belongs to very old men who are very powerful, so the skill is something of a free turn for the player. Not sure why you're able to learn it, though.
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  #158  
Old 10-02-2012, 11:26 AM
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Don't forget about Distracted!

Also, Backhand has legitimate uses in both 3 and 4, although moreso in 3.
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  #159  
Old 10-02-2012, 03:10 PM
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I'm gonna post my thoughts as I go through the thread, so forgive me if I bring up long-forgotten points.

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Originally Posted by Spuuky View Post
To me there is one fundamental distinction in the nature of these games, if I'm truly going to divide them down the middle. In Western RPGs, you are the dude. The character is an avatar or extension of yourself. You make the choices. You make the character. Often you see through their literal figurative eyes (first person views are more common, or the closely related third-person-over-the-shoulder view). In Fallout, you're building "yourself" and exploring the world that way. Relatedly it's typically a smaller cast with a focus on an individual, the self, or a small party of people who don't have any identifiable characteristics other than those you personally allocate to them - they rarely speak; in a game like Legend of Grimrock (a distinctly W RPG to me), sure, you have 4 guys, but it's really a single unit that moves through the world, and that unit is essentially "you."

OK, that's already plenty of explanation, although I'm sure I missed a few salient points. By contrast, though, a JRPG is fundamentally a story being told TO you. You move characters through the world, sure, but those characters exist in many predefined ways. In more modern ones, their personalities and appearances are often completely unchangeable - Zidane is a person you watch as she moves through her world. So is Tidus. So is whoever. Even games in which you "create" the character - like Dragon Quest IX - your personality is fundamentally decided upon for you, and you watch yourself travel the world. The combat mechanics vary a lot because they are irrelevant to this approach. Sure, the view is more likely overhead/external/whatever because it's easier to see the action that way so to speak, but see something like Etrian Odyssey where you view the world exclusively in first person but you never really feel like the characters are "you" in a way you do in Skyrim, and you're still told the story and don't make meaningful choices other than those tied to the combat system. As a result of this you'll also get larger casts of characters as they're all the "them" that you're deploying rather than the "you" that you are acting.
So an immediate scoffing response to this led me to a realization: Final Fantasy, the original, is a WRPG. A WRPG with some JRPG trappings, yes, but fundamentally a WRPG.

Anyway, one thing I wish JRPGs would go back to is FF4/6's distinctive characters in terms of gameplay. In both said games, each character had their own distinctive command sets and abilities. Both had some issues with the concept - 4 had your party cycle way too damn much to really appreciate the characters, and the Espers in 6 made the differences between characters mostly meaningless by the time you get to Thamasa - but it's still a really cool concept that I wish was explored more.

Last edited by Lilfut; 10-02-2012 at 03:26 PM.
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  #160  
Old 10-02-2012, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilfut View Post
I'm gonna post my thoughts as I go through the thread, so forgive me if I bring up long-forgotten points.



So an immediate scoffing response to this led me to a realization: Final Fantasy, the original, is a WRPG. A WRPG with some JRPG trappings, yes, but fundamentally a WRPG.
Nah. It is more common for WRPGs to have D&D based mechanics and customizable parties, but a much more important factor here is how you proceed through the game in a generally linear fashion, with no real side quests or decisions to make upgrading your equipment as you reach each new town.
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  #161  
Old 10-02-2012, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Googleshng View Post
Nah. It is more common for WRPGs to have D&D based mechanics and customizable parties, but a much more important factor here is how you proceed through the game in a generally linear fashion, with no real side quests or decisions to make upgrading your equipment as you reach each new town.
I disagree. The decisions aren't quite as monumental, but they're there. Who gets the MASMUNE? Who doesn't get a RIBBON? Which L4 spells do you want to leave off your list?
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  #162  
Old 10-02-2012, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Googleshng View Post
It is more common for WRPGs to have D&D based mechanics and customizable parties, but a much more important factor here is how you proceed through the game in a generally linear fashion, with no real side quests or decisions to make upgrading your equipment as you reach each new town.
Beyond the choices in magic for your magic users, Final Fantasy I's party isn't even all that customizable, either.

Toriyama monsters aside, I'd say Dragon Quest III is much more WRPG-like. Besides most areas usually being blocked off by local enemy walls or not having the necessary keys or transportation, it lets you make your own party members. You choose their name, gender, and job, and in the remakes personality by way of seeds. Once they hit Level 20 you can revocate them to another class, where they keep all their learned spells and abilities and half their stats.
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  #163  
Old 10-02-2012, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Lilfut View Post
I disagree. The decisions aren't quite as monumental, but they're there. Who gets the MASMUNE? Who doesn't get a RIBBON? Which L4 spells do you want to leave off your list?
Are you actually being serious with this? Because that's A- Clearly not the sort of decision I'm talking about, and B- True for basically every RPG ever, in any format/region/subgenre/medium.
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  #164  
Old 10-02-2012, 04:43 PM
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Yeah, you're probably right. This here's my main view on the matter, though:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilfut View Post
Anyway, one thing I wish JRPGs would go back to is FF4/6's distinctive characters in terms of gameplay. In both said games, each character had their own distinctive command sets and abilities. Both had some issues with the concept - 4 had your party cycle way too damn much to really appreciate the characters, and the Espers in 6 made the differences between characters mostly meaningless by the time you get to Thamasa - but it's still a really cool concept that I wish was explored more.
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  #165  
Old 10-02-2012, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Googleshng View Post
Are you actually being serious with this? Because that's A- Clearly not the sort of decision I'm talking about, and B- True for basically every RPG ever, in any format/region/subgenre/medium.
I'm with Google on this. About the closest the original Final Fantasy gets to WRPG territory is spell charges (replaced by MP in the newer remakes) and most of the monster compendium being taken straight out of Dungeons & Dragons. One enemy type in particular, the EVIL EYE, got a full on sprite makeover because it was an honest to God BEHOLDER in the Japanese original.
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