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  #1261  
Old 06-22-2016, 10:41 PM
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More Knights down. Propeller and Polar are finished, one more in this set.

I seem to have nothing to spend my money on. I bought all the armor and shovel upgrades. I went to the haunted house (I FOUND MATCHSTICK WTF), I did Mr. Hat, I have all the magic and meal tickets bought, and I have all the relics so far. Is there... anything to do with this gold now?

Like, it's cool that I bought all the buyable stuff so far. BUT, it also leads to a minor peeve. The gold loss on death thing. It's a cool risk management system for death in place of lives or continues (which are such an outdated nonsense system anyway). If you can get back to where you were, you recover your penalty and go on your merry way, no problem!

But it also stresses me out because I... I just... I can't just leave my gold there...! And then sometimes I die getting it back. So I didn't permanently lose any, but have to go get it again. There was one stage in propeller knight's area where I got kinda stressed out because I kept dying on the same pit, not because I couldn't get past it but because I couldn't recover my gold without dying, and I kept doing both. I lost a few bags too because getting stressed made me try to rush through the previous screen and die there as well before picking it up... and so on.


This is going to be especially annoying for me now because I have a bunch of gold I can't spend and when I die I'll be dropping huge chunks of change and even though I know the amount I drop does not matter for the exact reason that's causing the large drops, I'll freak out over possibly losing like 2000 gold! And I'll probably need gold again after one more boss and I go to the next area! Aaaaagh!
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  #1262  
Old 06-22-2016, 10:43 PM
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And I'll probably need gold again after one more boss and I go to the next area! Aaaaagh!
Minor Spoiler: No you won't.
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  #1263  
Old 06-22-2016, 11:00 PM
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Minor Spoiler: No you won't.
So I really just don't need any more gold (except for the last few relics) and can relax about it?

Phew.
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  #1264  
Old 06-23-2016, 03:33 AM
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Well, there's an achievement for having a lot of it, but that's easier to get in either NG+ or a No-Upgrade run, so nbd
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  #1265  
Old 06-23-2016, 01:42 PM
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Got the Decked Out achievement, opened the last area! Here we go!

The thing about classic style indie games is that they're short. I don't know if that's a good thing, or a bad thing, or both. But it's like, well, almost done now!

Wonder if going back in for the plague knight play would be better done immediately while the base game is still fresh in my mind, or given some time? Actually, immediately might be better.
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  #1266  
Old 06-23-2016, 02:02 PM
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Plague controls REALLY differently than Shovel. It may severely impact your enjoyment if you jump right in, to be honest.
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  #1267  
Old 06-23-2016, 02:07 PM
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Man. Yacht Club's management really has their shit together.
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  #1268  
Old 06-24-2016, 07:12 PM
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And finished!

The hardest stages for me were propeller Knight's stage, with 14 deaths (luckily he was the second boss I beat that sitting because I remember having to put the game down) and the second tower ascent stage (16 deaths, almost all if not every single one on the goddamn rainbow statue motherfuck a bullshit part). Those were the only two I noticed with double digit deaths but there was a 9, too. Probably the first ascent. They really kicked up the platforming in those areas, like a very noticeable jump in difficulty.

89% items...? I'm not sure what else there was to get. Did it count music sheets? Because I didn't get all the music. And there's an empty armor slot but it's for weird system bonuses...? Is that it? I'm playing on PC, I dunno if I can...?


I found it strange that there were all those optional?/side/map-wandering bosses that, at least in my play, only ever showed up once each. Was there more to those I missed? Were they just kinda tossed in there?

Early on some random treasure levels popped up on the world map but I think it was only once, in the first area? Weird that they disappeared.


Anyway it was wonderful. I guess I'll wait and go back before doing Plague Knight, though if I go in expecting something completely different I might not need an adjustment period...?
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  #1269  
Old 06-24-2016, 08:02 PM
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You did work out that you can use relics to retrieve gold right?
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  #1270  
Old 06-24-2016, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Egarwaen View Post
You did work out that you can use relics to retrieve gold right?
I swear I tried that and it didn't seem to work. Boo.

Oh well. It ended up not mattering. I did lose over 10,000 gold to dying in the last ascent stage but I already had everything so ~YOLO~
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  #1271  
Old 06-25-2016, 12:26 AM
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I swear I tried that and it didn't seem to work. Boo.
Pretty sure they all do but I know the fishing rod does
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  #1272  
Old 07-01-2016, 06:45 PM
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If I have any gripes about Plague of Shadows, it's that there are maybe one too many weapon variations and a few too many bursts that I didn't find a whole lot of use for.

Other than that? An absolutely stunning expansion. I want to say "this is how to do DLC", but it's probably pretty unfair to set the bar so high for other devs when Yacht Club have gone way, way, way above and beyond.

Oh, one more gripe: I kind of wish the final battle involved teaming up with Mona the way Shovel Knight teamed up with Shield Knight.
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  #1273  
Old 07-02-2016, 01:56 PM
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I started Plague of Shadows and it's pretty excellent.

I got the floaty burst and I'm not sure if/when/why I'd even look at the other ones.

There are a ton of weapon combinations which is really neat for versatility, though I do find myself quick-swapping all the time.

The tonic thing is neat, with a small heal and buff until death. On the other hand, every single death I've had as Plague Knight has been platforming-based. I haven't once died of running out of health. I can't remember exactly if it's the same parts I had trouble with played as Shovel Knight, but it's the same basic thing that happened to me there: Die in some pit due to a hit knockback, then die over and over while retreiving or trying to retreive my fucking gold which becomes the worst platforming challenge of the level. The dark sections of Specter Knight's level were just as aggravating and un-fun as they were on Shovel Knight, maybe moreso. The ghosts on the very last pit kept knocking me in, then doing it again as I tried for my gold. Fucking Shit.

That gold recovery mechanic is neat overall but the placement seriously needs an adjustment for pit deaths. Both characters.


I got the relic trade in Specter Knight's level, but I missed the one in King Knight again. I found the outline door, obviously, but I couldn't seem to get through it. (Went back. It's up, I guess, though even that seemed unresponsive. Weird.) Not sure how handy the explosion will come in.
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  #1274  
Old 07-02-2016, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul le Fou View Post
I got the floaty burst and I'm not sure if/when/why I'd even look at the other ones.
I don't think you can do anything while floating except float, which can be a problem when you want to throw bombs all the time forever.

(also once you have the flow of jump-burst-bomb-jump-burst down, you can sail over levels like you're kirby or something)
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  #1275  
Old 07-02-2016, 02:59 PM
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I'm pretty sure I can still throw bombs while floating! But it might be worth getting one of the attack bursts and just tear past stuff.


What are some of your favorite weapon/burst combos? I've liked lob/green tracing fire/long fuse for general fighting. Component seems good since it's basically identical to black powder plus additive explosion, though maybe that slows down its pure potential blast-away rate? Is quick fuse useful for much? Hm maybe with component and you just work on a lot of big explosions... hmmm... so many potential combinations...
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  #1276  
Old 07-02-2016, 03:04 PM
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Don't have my copy right on hand to verify the names, but the Boomerang, Break-on-impact and Big-Explosion potions combine together wonderfully.

Big Explosion, in particular, shreds bosses and mini-bosses. Even ones with shields.
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  #1277  
Old 07-02-2016, 03:25 PM
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I'm pretty sure I can still throw bombs while floating! But it might be worth getting one of the attack bursts and just tear past stuff.
It's probably the fact that you can't charge bursts while floating that I was thinking of, which is like 80% of your mobility.
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  #1278  
Old 07-02-2016, 11:03 PM
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The powder name you're looking for, Octo, is Cluster.

Which I also really like. Shame it kind of obsoletes Cascade Powder, though. My go-to bomb was Float Casing, Cluster Powder, and Remote Fuse.
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  #1279  
Old 07-04-2016, 02:56 PM
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The airship level is still some shitty-shit bullshit that I hate. Fuckin'. Shit. Hate it. Bullshit. Fuckin' bullshit. I finished the level with less gold than I started. At one point, trying to get through the 3-screen wind-tunnel section, I went from 7000 to 800. Thank god I already had all the stuff and didn't need any more gold. Still kind of infuriating.


Just the last two levels now, and since they were the hardest platforming in the game before, and the platforming is generally harder with Plague Knight, I'm kind of dreading them. (I also haven't done the ghost manor because there's only gold as a reward and I don't need it, and doing those orb kills with bombs seems like a compounded pain in the butt, especially for the boss fight.)


Again, notable thing with Plague Knight vs Shovel Knight is that I have never died once to damage. Not once. Not against a boss, or enemies in a level, or anything. Every single death has been from platforming. Spikes, pits, whatever. (And of course a big percentage of those are from trying to recover gold after platforming deaths.) With Shovel Knight I would occasionally take a few tries to beat a boss or take enough damage from enemies that I'd get killed during a level. I guess I've used my tonics to recover from low life in the same way I've used ichor potions to save my life as shovel knight, so that's something. But I still took way more damage as shovel knight, to the point where it was something I actually had to worry about. Plague knight is just, will the platforming fuck me, or will I land it?


I think I need to use arcana more. If I'd remembered to regularly use Vat, for instance, I'd probably have saved myself a ton of headache.


Also nobody told me the last burst was SCREW ATTACK, OH MY GOD YESSS HAHA IT'S SO GOOD.


Messing around with more bombs. Spark+long is pretty good with lob (I think Lob is my favorite casing overall. Most reliable/all-purpose. Between that and Bounce you really have any situation covered... the rest tends to be fiddly and not actually much better? Though orbit is really good in platforming-heavy segments when you want to just focus on your jumps.)

Whirl is interesting... Standing it's just a short range attack but with a jump it does a bit of back and forth... but it's a lot less reliable that way. I think I'd rather use Orbit if I'm looking for something to follow me and hit what comes near. Bounce might be neat with the right combos. Spark, maybe?

I like cluster a lot, and end up using it most of the time, though a miss is a harsher penalty. And I typically just use Long fuse for everything.
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  #1280  
Old 07-04-2016, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul le Fou View Post
Also nobody told me the last burst was SCREW ATTACK, OH MY GOD YESSS HAHA IT'S SO GOOD.
yesssssssssssssssss

also yeah, the platforming is trickier with plague, no qualms about that. vat helps a lot if you can remember to use it before you fall, and once you reach the top of the skill cliff, you'll be gliding through even propeller knight's stage like a speedrunner. but, well...it is a cliff, for sure.

I think most of the time, for bombs, I just used the basic powder, Bounce, and Long. Mainly because I was in the air all the time forever, and firing death upon the ground never ever ever gets old. Orbit+Cluster is pretty good for Propeller Knight, I found, because otherwise he likes to deflect your bombs. (Though you can also use Bounce/Cluster/Impact and land the bomb right in front of him, so that he still gets caught in the blast.)
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  #1281  
Old 07-04-2016, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul le Fou View Post
I think I need to use arcana more. If I'd remembered to regularly use Vat, for instance, I'd probably have saved myself a ton of headache.
If you're having trouble with platforming, you should definitely be using more arcana. The Vat and the upward sword slash are both lifesavers. I used them throughout the entire game.
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  #1282  
Old 07-04-2016, 06:18 PM
Cuarzo Falcone Cuarzo Falcone is offline
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The airship level is still some shitty-shit bullshit that I hate. Fuckin'. Shit. Hate it. Bullshit. Fuckin' bullshit. I finished the level with less gold than I started. At one point, trying to get through the 3-screen wind-tunnel section, I went from 7000 to 800. Thank god I already had all the stuff and didn't need any more gold. Still kind of infuriating.
No kidding. I remember about a quarter of my deaths in Plague of Shadows were in the airship level (mostly against Propeller Knight, but half of that was falling into holes, so).
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  #1283  
Old 07-04-2016, 07:08 PM
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Beat it! I definitely died more as Plague Knight than I did as Shovel Knight. The hardest levels where I died the most were the same, even down to the same parts of the same levels, as my Shovel run.

Even at the last boss, though, I didn't die to taking damage (one death on the first stage... from falling into the pit. So still platforming. Womp womp) and beat the second and third stages my first time.

The ending was adorable.

If I have one complaint it's that while there're ostensibly a ton of possible combinations, ultimately most of the upgrades ended up just not being that useful. Maybe it was just a style thing and it's more about finding what works for you instead of good or bad ones, but I just couldn't get a number of them to work for me.
~I was using lob and bounce for the entire game. Orbit was useful for a few platforming segments. Float was too finnicky to get much use out of, bounce I think I used once ever. I used whirl a bit when I got it but found it ultimately not that useful.

~Once I got cluster that was basically it; there were some enemies where say spark was more useful to a small degree, but cluster was all-around the best. I shoulda tried cascade earlier, I was using component or tracer for the early game. They weren't bad, but weren't great either.

~Fuses too; I used either long or impact pretty much the whole game. I tried using sentry a number of times for mobile enemies, but it just had too short a range to ever actually be useful. I don't think I even tried remote.

~The final Burst was quite good, but ultimately I probably should have stuck with float. Would have made several of the more frustrating platforming segments a LOT easier. IN fact, why the fuck DIDN'T I switch to float...?! Gah. Hindsight. I've only myself to blame. Bullet was okay but Frost was useless, and I used it for quite a while.

~The big bomb arcana was pretty useful as, well, a big bomb. Not entirely sure if a lob-cluster basically obsoleted it though. Life leech definitely came in handy; a bit finnicky, but I guess it needed to be for balance. Vat was a lifesaver on some platform segments. The upward staff seemed like it would be more helpful than it ended up being; maybe it was because of animation timings or something, I don't know, but I found it never actually saved me that much when I tried using it. Maybe I just needed more practice. So that's 3, maybe 3 and a half useful spells; about the same number as useful relics, maybe more. The smoke bomb helped in like, two parts; it was a bit too finnicky with the horizontal travel to be useful in general application. I could see someone putting it to great effect during some boss battles though... hmmm... Similarly for run potion and berserker potion; they helped with 1, maybe 2 segments, but weren't really necessary even for those areas. And what was up with the fast-attack melee staff? Did anyone find a use for that thing?

~Did anyone mess around with the wall-bouncing cloak? I had it on for a bit of a stage or two but it kept throwing me around and I couldn't really see a positive use for it. Once I got the loot cloak I just used that until I had all the items, which didn't really take long. After that I used heavy, to help with platforming. I don't think I died more than a scant few times to the momentum effect, but the knockback reduction saved me quite a bit. I just switched to Ornate for the final boss. Fancy~
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  #1284  
Old 07-04-2016, 08:16 PM
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I recall finding float casing quite useful for a lot of awkwardly placed enemies, or for times when enemies would be moving around a lot. I think I swapped between lob, float and bounce quite frequently.
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  #1285  
Old 07-05-2016, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul le Fou View Post
If I have one complaint it's that while there're ostensibly a ton of possible combinations, ultimately most of the upgrades ended up just not being that useful. Maybe it was just a style thing and it's more about finding what works for you instead of good or bad ones, but I just couldn't get a number of them to work for me.
Most of the game is about finding what tools work for you and the rest really rewards you for remembering what tools you have. Plague of Shadows really benefits from the player taking a moment to pause the game, take a deep breath, and look over all their options when the game's getting frustrating.
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  #1286  
Old 07-05-2016, 08:14 AM
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If you're having trouble with platforming, you should definitely be using more arcana. The Vat and the upward sword slash are both lifesavers. I used them throughout the entire game.
This can't be overstated. I leaned on both of these hard for my first few playthroughs. They're great safety nets and improve your aerial mobility!

Float burst is another thing I relied on heavily until things started clicking, and now I can't go back to it (screw attack is way too good, though I sometimes throw some frost in there to mix things up). The wall-bounce cloak is interesting. You can string some really fun jumps together, reach impressive heights, and get a positioning edge on enemies with it. But it has caused inconvenience at times when I don't want to use it. Still, with a bit more practice, I can see me keeping it on and never looking back. That's what I love about this game. There are several options to make things manageable, but it's really satisfying to master the more difficult tools.

My standby bombs of choice for late game, replays, and new game + is the Whirl-Spark-Remote. They have huge hitboxes that are easy to aim and manipulate, they just shred enemies, and you're rarely left vulnerable waiting on a missed shot. I think this one can be a bit overlooked.

Paul, you really should try the ghost manor with Plague...
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  #1287  
Old 07-05-2016, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul le Fou View Post
~Did anyone mess around with the wall-bouncing cloak?
Once you've mastered the normal controls, this thing adds a ton more options for moving around without touching the ground. I didn't discover how great it is until Propeller Knight, but the extra height and ability to bounce from platform edges saved me from a lot of pits there.

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  #1288  
Old 07-05-2016, 11:48 AM
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Yeah, the sheer amount of options you get both for attacking and platforming as Plague Knight are incredible -- everything has either a niche where it is super useful or can be used in a combination that will carry you the entire game. As good as Plague of Shadows is, at times it feels like a waste because the new mechanics are totally good enough to have an entirely new game built around them. I do hope the other two Knights can feel as fresh.

Plague Knight is basically a character action... er, character but for platforming
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  #1289  
Old 07-05-2016, 02:34 PM
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Plague Knight's mechanics are quite honestly my favorite thing to happen to platformers since wall jumping and dashing in Mega Man X. Shovel Knight was already amazing, but I wish they'd just keep doing sequels with Plague.
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  #1290  
Old 07-05-2016, 03:41 PM
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Anyway I love this game and can't wait for another new character so I can play it again.

Also allow me to reiterate that the end of PoS is totally adorable.
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