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  #2821  
Old 10-17-2017, 10:26 AM
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That the prequels are good is true... from a certain point of view.
A certain point of view...? You said the prequels betrayed and murdered the Original Trilogy.
  #2822  
Old 10-17-2017, 10:43 AM
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THE PREQUELS: He never told you what happened to Star Wars.
A FAN: He told me enough. He told me you ruined it.
THE PREQUELS: No. I am Star Wars.
A FAN: That's not true! That's impossible!
  #2823  
Old 10-17-2017, 10:46 AM
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Never cared for the prequels. I think they're bad Star Wars movies, which still makes them better than most of what comes out of Hollywood. Sure, the acting and wooden dialogue don't do much, to say the least, but I always felt the tone was off. In a lot of ways, it felt like an entirely different IP. They have some great moments but holistically they're fairly meh.

I largely feel the same way about Rogue One, in retrospect. Great moments that don't add up to something special, unfortunately. (I'd still rather watch Rogue One than the prequels.)

Oh, and the Han Solo movie is called "Solo", not "Mr. Lando Calrissian's Wild Ride" as I had hoped.
  #2824  
Old 10-17-2017, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by four-so View Post
Never cared for the prequels. I think they're bad Star Wars movies, which still makes them better than most of what comes out of Hollywood. Sure, the acting and wooden dialogue don't do much, to say the least, but I always felt the tone was off. In a lot of ways, it felt like an entirely different IP. They have some great moments but holistically they're fairly meh.

I largely feel the same way about Rogue One, in retrospect. Great moments that don't add up to something special, unfortunately. (I'd still rather watch Rogue One than the prequels.)
I agree. I love a lot of little details and ideas but none of them feel right to me. I'm glad that other people enjoy them!
  #2825  
Old 10-17-2017, 11:12 AM
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Oh, and the Han Solo movie is called "Solo", not "Mr. Lando Calrissian's Wild Ride" as I had hoped.
On the bright side, it gives me the opportunity to make a million and one "solo movie" puns.
  #2826  
Old 10-17-2017, 11:55 AM
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Breakfast is a social construct, eat whatever you want whenever you want

Also JJ Abrams is a competent journeyman director with some flaws in his work but nothing major
EVERYTHING is a social construct! The social compact you sign onto as a member of society says you will only eat an Egg McMuffin when forced to, and certainly not for dinner!
  #2827  
Old 10-17-2017, 12:15 PM
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Designated breakfast times are more of an antisocial construct.
  #2828  
Old 10-17-2017, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by four-so View Post
Oh, and the Han Solo movie is called "Solo", not "Mr. Lando Calrissian's Wild Ride" as I had hoped.
I really hope Lando will be in The Last Jedi in some capacity, even though no trailer has indicated it. Maybe Snoke is another one of his business schemes that has gotten out of hand. Hell, I'd even settle for him just showing up as a spokesman in a holographic commercial in the background.

And we all of course know what that commercial would be for.
  #2829  
Old 10-19-2017, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Bongo Bill View Post
The character who has a Campbellian arc is Jar Jar, and I think that many viewers were disoriented by looking for someone cool to identify with and finding Goofy instead.
It now occurs to me that the Phantom Menace would be greatly improved if Jar Jar were literally Goofy. Make it happen, Disney
  #2830  
Old 10-19-2017, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Fredde View Post
I really hope Lando will be in The Last Jedi in some capacity, even though no trailer has indicated it.
There's a casino world but all we hear about in relation to it is Benicio del Toro. I hope he's in IX at least.
  #2831  
Old 10-20-2017, 12:32 AM
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Whenever Lando isn't on the screen, all the other characters really should be asking, "Where's Lando?"
  #2832  
Old 10-20-2017, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Ludendorkk View Post
Whenever Lando isn't on the screen, all the other characters really should be asking, "Where's Lando?"
Did he die on the way back to his home planet?
  #2833  
Old 10-20-2017, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Dracula View Post
Actually though, I've always wanted to like the prequels, and I've always found that I can increase enjoyment of things if I alter my interpretation of them in some way, so keep feeding me this ammunition.
Try watching basically any Star Wars movie with the following in mind; "The Jedi are the bad guys." It's a fun time!
  #2834  
Old 10-21-2017, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Sarcasmorator View Post
There's a casino world but all we hear about in relation to it is Benicio del Toro. I hope he's in IX at least.
Casino world? Does this mean Snoke is really Robotnik!?
  #2835  
Old 10-21-2017, 05:55 PM
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So is any intentional manipulation of the Force a Dark Side act? The purest actions that involve the Force are the ones in which people give themselves over to its will - Luke during the trench run, Chirrut on Scariff, *maybe* Rey during the duel with Ren. And the Force's greatest agent - R2-D2 - never telekinetically lifts a thing or pulls a mind trick on anyone.

Luke certainly slings a lot of stuff around, but that coincides with his arc that takes him dangerously close to giving wholly into the Dark Side on account of Obi-Wan and Yoda's manipulations.
  #2836  
Old 10-21-2017, 06:03 PM
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Yoda's take - "fear, anger, aggression: the Dark Side are they" - seems an accurate enough take to me.
  #2837  
Old 10-21-2017, 08:20 PM
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In the context of the movies, I'm pretty sure the Dark Side is less the emotions themselves and more the refusal of the practitioner to properly control them; the Sith are all about manipulating people via their emotions while failing to recognize that their emotions are manipulating them in turn, where the Jedi get a technical pass due to their denial of self but in reality fail almost as egregiously due to their rejection of emotion to begin with.

E: Rebels makes this point particularly obvious, being that as much as it's a show about the formation of the greater Rebel Alliance, it's also a show about a pair of Force users struggling to use the Jedi teachings to create a new path forwards as neither of them have the option of remaining serene and separate from the galaxy.
  #2838  
Old 10-21-2017, 11:54 PM
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The greatest trick the Sith ever pulled was convincing the Jedi they didn't exist.
  #2839  
Old 10-22-2017, 08:01 PM
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Now I watch Attack of the Clones.

This movie open with Padme's space ship turning upside down and then being blown up. It's a fairly good metaphor for what happens for what happens to the galaxy in it. I think that the opening shots of spaceships in all these Star Wars is pretty significant. I'll be paying attention to them moving forward.

A New Hope: a small spaceship desperately flees a large Evil Triangle, which catches and eats it. The film deals with the galaxy's domination by the Empire.
The Empire Strikes Back: an Evil Triangle lays eggs.
The Phantom Menace: a small Evil Triangle intimidates a much larger Destructo-Sphere.

All Jedi end up doing exactly what they say they aren't there to do in this movie. Obi-Wan in particular is hilariously hypocritical. Anakin, meanwhile, is shown as chafing against their authority during the scene where they chase Zam through Blade Runner's Los Angeles.

I love the design of Palpatine's office.

This movie's full of disguises. It's the most semiotically rich Star War of them all, and it makes some sacrifices to achieve this density. In particular, to a greater extent than any of the others, in the interests of speed, it relies on spoken exposition to establish the plot logic, and dialog is not George Lucas' strong point. He can establish really strong dramatic irony with lines like "If droids could think, none of us would be here" and "If an item doesn't appear in our records, it does not exist," and make a character's feelings perfectly clear by having them describe them explicitly, but this bluntness doesn't suit a movie that's all about lies and manipulation.

For instance, it's seemingly a throwaway line during Anakin and Padme's departure for Naboo that the Chancellor authorized an investigation into the attacks on Padme's life. That means Palpatine is the one who set Obi-Wan on the trail that leads to Geonosis. It's not obvious that the whole trail of clues - the venomous insects released by the droid sent by Zam who was conspicuously killed by Jango Fett who lives on Kamino where Darth Tyranus ordered a clone army - was planted, specifically so that following them would lead to war.

One thing that is striking me on a rewatch is how thoroughly Padme's life is controlled by people around her. It is subtler than Anakin's situation, but it adds an element to their tragic relationship.

Hayden Christiansen is portraying a very challenging character in this, one who is, himself, acting all the time. "Wooden" is completely wrong. While Natalie Portman sort of melds Padme's public and private personas - the peace-loving loyalist idealist who keeps a gun in her throne and indulges in the thrill of war - Christiansen alternates between the stiffened formality of Anakin the dutiful pupil, and the tempest of emotions - frustration, loneliness, horny, self-loathing - that he holds in check.

Lot of gorgeous shots in this movie. This was the first major film to be shot on a digital camera, and the resolution of the camera was less than 1080p, and I noticed a few artifacts. I'm not sure how much they touched it up for the blu-ray (I know they replaced the puppet Yoda in The Phantom Menace with a CGI one who's much better-looking than the CGI Yoda in this one). Some of the digital compositing has visible seams. Some of the CGI is not as well-animated as we've become used to in the intervening 15 years. Meanwhile, a lot of the props and sets are very smooth and very brightly, evenly lit - a bit of Wes Anderson - to make them look less real.

Yoda, who warns against fear so often, is the voice of fear in most of his scenes.

The sound in the scene where Obi-Wan and Jango are in the asteroids around Geonosis is famous, but the visual design is great too. The lighting in particular.

Duality between water and sand. It'd be a theme even if Anakin hadn't tried to segue into a smooch after calling it out explicitly.

Anakin picks up a handful of sand from his mother's grave and swears he'll never lose a loved one again. Then he gets a chance to save another parent, and he's about to lose him again. Then Padme leaps into action to prevent him from being too late again.

Count Dooku's temptation of Obi-Wan is an ambiguous scene to me. Side note: Count Dooku is a tremendous sci-fi name. Combine "Count Dracula" (naturally, portrayed by Christopher Lee) with "Prince Barin" (as worthy an allusion as any), you get Count Duke. Anyway. It's an ambiguous scene to me. Is Dooku in over his head and trying to gain an ally before Darth Sidious' machinations sweep him away? Is he a genuine idealist trying to create a sincere - if conspicuously libertarian - alternative to the failing Republic? There doesn't seem to be any other reason for him to try to recruit Obi-Wan.

The images of the Geonosians' "ultimate weapon," aside from introducing the Death Star plans as an object (I will discuss this more when I reach Rogue One), reminds us that spheres are a strong recurring symbol. Fittingly for a movie about the origin of the Galactic Empire, there are tons of proto-Death Stars all over the place. Geonosis has its little Trade Federation starships, back from The Phantom Menace and now more spherical than ever. But Kamino is more interesting - in addition to the domes, the interior has the lifeless mechanical corridors, the huge columns of plasma (same ones as Naboo, interestingly enough - though in that case it seemed to mean that the Empire was always there underneath the Republic), and the converging lines motif. Though it's only in the next one that Coruscant itself becomes a Death Star.

The ending from the arena scene echoes the Battle of Hoth, and a cloud of dust obscures all before Yoda says "The shroud of the Dark Side has fallen." The movie uses disguises, smoke, rain, debris, darkness, steam, dust, and more to render things invisible. The Jedi are aware that they can no longer see the future, the present, or the past.

In the end, the war that will turn the Republic into the Empire has begun. All acknowledge it. The future Emperor receives good news. (Side note: the movie's twist is that Darth Sidious wanted all of this to happen. Dooku's motives were a mystery, and the mystery is revealed at the end. It's less of a mystery if you put too much stock into the idea of a unified Red Team, or if you previously noticed that Palpatine and Sidious have the same jowls. It's fun to pretend, though.) Ominous scenes of proto-stormtroopers assembling on Coruscant while proto-Star Destroyers take off, and then an even more ominous scene of Anakin marrying Padme.

Attack of the Clones is the hinge of the tragedy. This is the movie in which the reasons why everyone chooses evil over good are laid bare. In this film's sequel, these decisions are reaffirmed and made irrevocable.
  #2840  
Old 10-22-2017, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Bongo Bill View Post
Count Dooku's temptation of Obi-Wan is an ambiguous scene to me. Side note: Count Dooku is a tremendous sci-fi name. Combine "Count Dracula" (naturally, portrayed by Christopher Lee) with "Prince Barin" (as worthy an allusion as any), you get Count Duke. Anyway. It's an ambiguous scene to me. Is Dooku in over his head and trying to gain an ally before Darth Sidious' machinations sweep him away? Is he a genuine idealist trying to create a sincere - if conspicuously libertarian - alternative to the failing Republic? There doesn't seem to be any other reason for him to try to recruit Obi-Wan.
Its a genuinely strange and stiff scene, even compared to the others in the movie. Dooku wasn't the most well-developed character: I vaguely remember someone saying that he was a hot-headed Jedi pupil that asked too many questions. I don't know why he would want to convert Obi-Wan either except because its what the plot demands. The one thing of significance that happens is Dooku outright tells Obi that Sidious is controlling the republic. Obi just calls bullcrap on it, though. There's hardly any tension to it save to plant the idea in the back of his mind, but the film only uses it for dramatic irony.

I had assumed on my first watching that he was genuinely an idealist. He had been built up that way. However he knew Sidious by name and calls him master. There's no way he wasn't in on it to some degree. But in the upcoming film, he looks shocked when Palpatine orders him killed so he must not have known he was acting a pawn the whole time. All of that juicy development happens behind the scenes. It sucks.
  #2841  
Old 10-22-2017, 10:18 PM
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Dooku doesn't know that Palpatine is Sidious' alter ego. There was a deleted scene that tells a bit more about him, and explains why there's a statue of him in the Jedi library. He quit the Jedi Order because he's a political radical, and joined up with Darth Sidious in order to gain the power needed to achieve his goals. But he ended up playing Sidious' game instead, getting deeper and more compromised, sort of foreshadowing Anakin's own later thwarted hopes to betray him.
  #2842  
Old 10-23-2017, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Bongo Bill View Post
Side note: Count Dooku is a tremendous sci-fi name. Combine "Count Dracula" (naturally, portrayed by Christopher Lee) with "Prince Barin" (as worthy an allusion as any), you get Count Duke.
I mostly like it because no Star Wars is complete without a few double-vowels. Especially Os.
  #2843  
Old 10-23-2017, 10:38 AM
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I mostly like it because no Star Wars is complete without a few double-vowels. Especially Os.
Attack of the Clones is so much bantha poodoo.
  #2844  
Old 11-01-2017, 08:56 PM
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New "teaser". Looks like a commercial spot.
  #2845  
Old 11-01-2017, 09:11 PM
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Oh shit I just realized that this is officially coming out Next Month
  #2846  
Old 11-05-2017, 08:55 PM
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Super Mario Odyssey made me skip a week. Now I have watched Revenge of the Sith.

I don't care who you are, the whole rescue sequence at the beginning owns. This is what establishes the conditions for the rest of the film: Anakin is incredibly hot shit, a badass among badasses, who singlehandedly changes the course of the war. Because of his heroics, the war is nearly won, and the question of whether Palpatine will surrender his emergency powers is now what looms over everyone's head.

Revenge of the Sith is written like a classical stage play, albeit one that has the budget to cut away from Coruscant to actually show the fantastical action scenes that a playwright would most likely instead have someone describe in summary. Indeed, following the command ship's crash landing, such a summary is basically delivered.

Most Star Wars are adventures. In this one, the adventures are something that they cut to in order to break up the main through-line, Anakin's enmeshment in a number of overlapping schemes. They all come to a head at once with the death of Mace Windu. At that time, he is isolated and disoriented, without certainty and without allies. He succumbs to his possessive love, the flaw underlying his fear of loss, and submits to being enslaved anew.

The Order 66 montage fucking rules.

Padme insists that Anakin could never kill the younglings but she knows perfectly well that he could. She's one of two people to whom he confessed his prior infanticide. Even then, she doesn't betray him. Very significant that Obi-Wan instead follows her without her knowledge.

The contrast between Anakin and Obi-Wan parting before all the shit goes down and their reunion on Mustafar is delicious. Talk of arrogance and disobedience. The lies Obi-Wan has to tell himself in order to be able to fight at all.

There's a lot of sunlight imagery in this. The most pivotal events happen during sunsets. The sun is setting on the Republic, of course. Maybe there's some connection there to The Force Awakens.

The fight on the floor of the Senate is powerful imagery, and its aftermath has some visual echoes to Luke's fall from Bespin.

Obi-Wan tells Anakin not to try the flip jump attack because it's the exact move he used against Darth Maul and he knows exactly how to block it.

Compared to The Phantom Menace, the film has a clear protagonist rather than being an ensemble piece. Compared to Attack of the Clones, it is less dense with detail. And people basically knew that it wasn't gonna have a happy ending. And it's got the most different planets. For these reasons it's been the best-received of the prequels.

My gut feeling is that the ending montage won't connect very well with Rogue One, but I'll find out for sure next weekend, when I think I'll do a double feature.
  #2847  
Old 11-06-2017, 01:27 PM
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  #2848  
Old 11-08-2017, 07:05 AM
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Calling it now: dramatic post-jedi scene where Rey is fighting someone with a lightsaber and then wins by just stabbing them with an off-hand normal knife.
  #2849  
Old 11-08-2017, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Bongo Bill View Post

There's a lot of sunlight imagery in this. The most pivotal events happen during sunsets. The sun is setting on the Republic, of course. Maybe there's some connection there to The Force Awakens.
Do you think the makers of the new films have looked to 1-3 in any serious manner? I feel like they haven’t rewritten anything, but it seems generally ignored.
  #2850  
Old 11-08-2017, 10:58 AM
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Do you think the makers of the new films have looked to 1-3 in any serious manner? I feel like they haven’t rewritten anything, but it seems generally ignored.
Depends on what you mean by serious, I guess. It seems like they kindly acknowledge them, at least in interviews and the like, but largely ignore them within the framework of the new movies themselves.* Mind you, we haven't seen The Last Jedi yet but I'd be surprised if there's any major (or even minor) callbacks to the prequel trilogy.

*New saga films, anyway. There are the few scenes in Rogue One with Bail Organa and he alludes to Obi-Wan.
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