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  #691  
Old 10-04-2017, 06:05 PM
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I beat a game! This one!

Took my sweet ass time at 11 hours and change but found all the items (had to look up a hint for how to get two of them and spoiled the final "power-up" for myself, sadly, ah well).

I thought it was great, never felt plodding to me even with the focus on parries. You become an overpowered god of destruction soon enough anyway and that victory lap to clean up the last few knick-knacks was very satisfying.
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  #692  
Old 10-04-2017, 06:56 PM
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Final boss sucks. Is there a shine spark for spike corridors?
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  #693  
Old 10-04-2017, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chud_666 View Post
Final boss sucks. Is there a shine spark for spike corridors?
Answer to the second part: There isn't a speed booster way to activate it, but if you go into morph ball mode, activate the spider ball, don't move and then drop a power bomb, it'll launch you like a shinespark.
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  #694  
Old 10-04-2017, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chud_666 View Post
Is there a shine spark for spike corridors?
You know how if you use a bomb while spiderballing on a wall it will launch you sideways? Well, just do that with a power bomb and see what happens.
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  #695  
Old 10-04-2017, 07:19 PM
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Oh! Neat.

Just beat:
I liked it, but some areas are a pain in the ass. My final time was 15hrs. Didn’t 100% but def took time to get stuff. I think everything is a bullet sponge to justify counters. Some mid point would be appreciated.

8/10? Yeah.

My metroid power rankings best to worst:

Super
Metroid 1
Prime
ZM
Prime 2
Prime 3
Fusion
Samus Returns
Metroid 2
MOM
Hunters
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  #696  
Old 10-04-2017, 07:26 PM
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Besides the Ice Beam + Missile combo several people have mentioned, another alternative to the counter is to just use Beam Burst on everything. Since every single thing drops Aieon energy when killed, it's surprisingly sustainable if you only use it as needed.
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  #697  
Old 10-04-2017, 07:44 PM
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So, has anybody played the Fusion mode? Anything interesting about it?
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  #698  
Old 10-04-2017, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishi View Post
Besides the Ice Beam + Missile combo several people have mentioned, another alternative to the counter is to just use Beam Burst on everything. Since every single thing drops Aieon energy when killed, it's surprisingly sustainable if you only use it as needed.
Late in game i never countered, but stuff takes a ton of hits in general, to be fair i avoided using missiles because i hate have to hold it down. So, i am the problem!
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  #699  
Old 10-04-2017, 11:36 PM
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That sounds like a good strategy, especially as most enemies will only take a short burst to deal with (except the robots in the later areas that seemingly only yield to a Beam Burst).

A thing that really drives home how beefed up the enemies are in this game is that even the Screw Attack doesn't cut through them in one go.

Last thing I did was beat Diggernaut. I enjoyed the fight but think you could end up seeing that third phase ten times before you take him down. It isn't very clear that you can stay on the vulnerable points while he is electrified (since they glow the same colour, or thereabouts), so you could miss lots of opportunities and go through several cycles just figuring out the best way ahead. It feels like every encounter with this guy wants to be really laborious...
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  #700  
Old 10-05-2017, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klatrymadon View Post
A thing that really drives home how beefed up the enemies are in this game is that even the Screw Attack doesn't cut through them in one go.
This really bothered me. Like, it's okay to trivialize the combat at the end of the game, especially when I've been fighting the same enemies for 8 hours. Bouncing off of enemies like Sonic did not feel right.
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  #701  
Old 10-05-2017, 06:24 AM
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Yeah, by the time you get it you've proven countless times that you know how to deal with the enemies. It's the reward that allows you to do your victory lap and recover the items you missed, etc. Clearly, they wanted the grunt enemies to be no less a hindrance at the very end...

Edit: just fought the Queen Metroid, which was the most enjoyable moment in what has been a fairly unengaging late-game. It's a fight that makes full use of your skillset and can be tackled in a variety of ways, and it's exactly what I've been needing. It was a lot of fun, but I think the game has outstayed its welcome, tbh - I was ready for it to finish ages ago, which is not something I've ever felt about a Metroid game before. I've a low item percentage (just under 50% as I approached the Queen), and I think it's largely because I've been losing interest as I go along. Whenever I see the morph-ball mazes and grapple beam locks that signify nearby item expansions - and it feels like these are in most rooms, as everything's very densely packed - I just keep moving, feeling no desire to bother with them, or even to make a mental note of them and come back later.

This waning interest definitely has a lot to do with the fact that the rooms so often feel like completely artificial/contrived puzzle-boxes and not at all like places worth exploring, but that's a criticism you've been hearing about Zero Mission for years, so I won't go into that.

I'll give it a rest and try to collect my thoughts on the game before waffling further...

Edit: final clear time was 8:27, with about 47% items. It took until 11:03 to grab 100%, though. A fair chunk is only available when you've cleared the game (or when you've got the Power Bombs, which is near the end anyway). It'll be interesting to see what effect this has on speedrunning the game - will 100% runs involve this awkward, boring transporter-hopping period before the Ridley battle, or will something more elegant emerge?

Last edited by Klatrymadon; 10-09-2017 at 07:43 AM.
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  #702  
Old 10-11-2017, 06:05 PM
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Do the metroid fights get...better?
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  #703  
Old 10-11-2017, 06:07 PM
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Y'know I was kinda hoping they'd remaster the original TV ad.
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  #704  
Old 10-11-2017, 06:08 PM
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From Alphas? Yes.

Everything from Zetas onward are full-fledged boss monsters, Alphas and Gammas are just particularly tough regular enemies.
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  #705  
Old 10-15-2017, 02:47 PM
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There are way too many abilities and weapons that open a few areas, then are replaced with slightly better versions that open a scant few more areas, rinse and repeat. It also makes backtracking to previous zones unwise until you have everything, or risk having your progress stopped by the one kind of door monster that you can't kill. It's especially frustrating after Breath of the Wild, where you get all your powers in the beginning and the only real limit on your exploration is your skill and understanding of the tools at your disposal.
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  #706  
Old 10-15-2017, 03:05 PM
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The Diggernaut boss fight is some bullshit.
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  #707  
Old 10-17-2017, 01:56 PM
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The game is really making me work for that power bomb. I must say, when the closest thing your sci-fi adventure game has to an antagonist is construction equipment, maybe add a bit more story and character?
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  #708  
Old 10-17-2017, 06:39 PM
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I take back what I said about the digging robot. I was wondering where all the non-metroid bosses were, and the answer is this one fight. I was not prepared for how difficult and involved that was. It almost makes up for fighting the same three metroids the whole game!
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  #709  
Old 10-19-2017, 12:19 PM
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Metroid: Samus Returns has a lot of glaring problems, but getting the baby metroid as a tag along buddy/powerup is fantastic.
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  #710  
Old 10-19-2017, 06:52 PM
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I got all of the find 'ems and beat the game. If you took every single facet of Samus Returns and cut it in half it would be an infinitely better experience. The best parts for me were the boss fights, namely the non-numbered metroid ones near the end. They went on about a phase or two too long, but boy, were they challenging in a way I haven't seen in a Nintendo game for a good while.
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  #711  
Old 11-20-2017, 02:33 PM
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I found the trick with abusing the melee counters as using them as legitimate melee attacks. Freeze something with the Ice Beam, then smash it by manually hitting your Melee Counter button next to it. It's the counter part that I feel needs more polish, but I'm glad it isn't limited to just aggro counters and can be used for more practical reasons.
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  #712  
Old 12-09-2017, 02:58 AM
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I finally got around to playing this, and I'm liking it well enough. I'm not blown away or anything, but, hey, it's 2D Metroid.
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  #713  
Old 12-26-2017, 07:42 PM
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I just got this for Christmas and ... it's not very good. Every enemy is aggressively annoying, and they are so densely packed that it makes simple exploration a pain. And they so fucking fell in love with the melee counter that they force you do use it in almost EVERY situation. I have only played an hour or two and I already have a PTSD response when I here that "click" that says "another goddamn monster is going to charge at me I better press the button that stops it Jesus Christ I just want to find the next save point!"

And what's worse, the melee button only really works as a counter. If the monster isn't charging me it just doesn't seem to do much of anything to it.

Also, they won't let me use the D-Pad so Samus seems to always be sliding in the wrong direction. But of course they made a "stick in place" button to compensate, but that just slows the game down further as I line up shots instead of just having a 45 degree click like every other good 2D metroid. AND the beams don't stack so I keep having to touch the bottom screen to switch between the normal shot that kills better and the ice beam that keeps (some) enemies from charging me every five goddamn seconds. So when I fight a monster instead of like Super where all I have to worry about is my position and aiming in the general right direction, I have to worry about my position, my weapon selection, one button to shoot, one button to melee when it charges at me, one button to line up a shot, and another button if I need to just start firing missiles!

this one might have to immediately go back on the shelf. I have better game i could be playing.
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  #714  
Old 12-26-2017, 07:59 PM
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Why did you try playing a game that wasn't Super Metroid if what you want to be playing is Super Metroid.
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  #715  
Old 12-26-2017, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleck View Post
Why did you try playing a game that wasn't Super Metroid if what you want to be playing is Super Metroid.
I wanted to play a good metroidvania. Silly me thinking a Metroid game might fit the bill

Why does anyone play any new games rather than just replaying the same games over and over?
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  #716  
Old 12-26-2017, 09:10 PM
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I got completely lost trying to FIND a Metroid somewhere after getting the electric armor, and after quitting the game in boredom/frustration, I agree with everything McClain said. I was very hyped for Returns but was hugely disappointed by it, especially how every single enemy slows you down, the awkward controls, and the implementation of forced melee.

I would later find out in a guide that I'm supposed to get the high jump boots, but the damage is done. I'd rather play a completely different game --say, Dead Cells, SotN, or even the ridiculously hard Sundered than any Metroid at all. It soured me THAT hard.

Last edited by Zef; 12-26-2017 at 10:08 PM.
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  #717  
Old 12-26-2017, 09:16 PM
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I learned my lesson against ignoring my gut and trying to take the positives from the mixed reviews. I went in with an open mind and was still completely underwhelmed and frustrated. Unlike Zelda and Mario, the 2D Metroid is something other people have learned how to make way better than Nintendo somehow.
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  #718  
Old 12-26-2017, 09:29 PM
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I liked Samus Returns well enough but I didn't care enough to finish it. It firmly falls into the this-is-good-but-I'd-rather-play-something-else category.
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  #719  
Old 12-26-2017, 09:36 PM
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I thought it improved considerable about a third of the way through, once you get a few more powers in your arsenal. It still isn't great. I don't know why they decided that fighting needed to be such a chore.
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  #720  
Old 12-26-2017, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McClain View Post
Why does anyone play any new games rather than just replaying the same games over and over?
I mean, your complaints seem to boil down to 'this is different from Super Metroid', so I think I should maybe be asking you this?

In order;

- "There are a lot of enemies" - Have you tried shooting at them a bunch.

- "The melee counter is annoying" - You don't have to use it. You can also jump or roll out of the way of enemies, or just shoot them until they die, like in every other Metroid game.

- "The counter doesn't do anything if I use it at a time where it wouldn't counter anything" - Having tools that work at times and not at others is not a problem.

- "Why not just give me a 45 degree click like the other games, this is too slow" - You can push your thumbpad at a 45 degree angle. If you talk to people who've played this game first and then Super Metroid, of which I've spoken to three, they tend to think that "aim your laser at the enemy" is way simpler than "run around hoping that the enemy stops moving long enough to stay exactly 45 degrees above and to the side of you so you can shoot at it". You need to understand that there is a difference between something being easier and something being different than what you are already good at.

- "I have to switch beams" - Hot take; every other Metroid game with stackable beams makes non-boss combat a huge chore. Like, as soon as you get the ice beam, enemies no longer matter at all, which makes any backtracking one has to do a big snooze. At least putting the Ice Beam on a separate button keeps you awake while you run back through the caves.

Like, it's cool if you don't like it, but I don't think that "I have to learn to play this game" is synonymous with "this game is a bad game".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rascally Badger View Post
I don't know why they decided that fighting needed to be such a chore.
I am honestly baffled at the idea that fighting in this game is somehow more boring than every previous 2D Metroid game's pattern of "mash the shoot button until the enemy is dead", with the occasional wake-up slap of "jump over it and shoot it in the butt".

Excluding bosses, of course.
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