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  #10321  
Old 05-14-2018, 07:22 AM
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Default His name is Wallace Shawn.

You don't know who the Grand Nagus is played by?



Inconceivable!
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  #10322  
Old 05-14-2018, 07:41 AM
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I felt that I shouldn’t get into a bidding war with a Ferengi when death is on the line, and now I know why.
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  #10323  
Old 05-14-2018, 05:58 PM
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Are the Organians related to the Q (Continuum)?
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  #10324  
Old 05-14-2018, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopus Prime View Post
I felt that I shouldn’t get into a bidding war with a Ferengi when death is on the line, and now I know why.
Are Ferengi immune to Iocaine powder?
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  #10325  
Old 05-14-2018, 10:44 PM
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Default This may be the nerdiest post I've ever made.

re: Star Trek economics, replicators, and the need (or lack thereof) for money

If Star Trek posits a universe where Star Fleet no longer needs money because replicators have eliminated scarcity and if replicator technology is common across the major alien races then why did the Cardassians need to subjugate the Bajorans into slavery during their occupation and make them strip-mine the planet? Just to keep them busy so that they couldn't cause trouble?

Now my train of thought is going down a rabbit hole and thinking that If the U.S. had replicators and we could just press a button and make things come into existence the trash problem would be atrocious. There's already huge landfills in every city and litter is common and the ocean has a patch of plastic trash the size of Texas so I feel like it being able to instantly conjure things into existence would lead to an even greater abundance of stuff than already exists in our modern industrialized society and that a high percentage of that stuff would wind up as trash. So now I'm imagining that one of Starfleet's main missions is trash disposal. Starfleet has spaceships and discovers aliens and wages war and gathers up all the trash on the planet and dumps it off on distant systems safely away from where it would dirty the view of a citizen of the United Federation of Planets. All the officers on the Enterprise or other starships that royally screw things up wind up with their careers derailed and shunted off to a position as a glorified trash collector on a starship whose ongoing mission is to gather a payload of trash from Ursa Minor and launch into some wayward and unimportant star system's sun.
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  #10326  
Old 05-15-2018, 01:09 AM
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After having watched the Redemption (and related episodes) arc of TNG, I have a feeling Sela might be the real reason why Romulus blows up. Here's a little hypothesis...
  • Being in custody of the Federation, Guinan somehow comes into contact with her. She explains to Sela about her mother's true origins (from being in a different timeline). Sela doubts Guinan's claims, but eventually learns the truth when she escapes and manages to get a hold of Classified Federation documents that show Tasha Yar as having been killed in Vagra II.
  • Feeling betrayed having lived her life as Romulan, not to mention suffering from an existential crisis, Sela now vows revenge on Romulus. She happens upon Tolian Soran's work on Trilithium, and hatched a scheme to cause a star nearby Romulus to go supernova. Unlike Dr. Soran's work, the results would not be "instantanious".
  • Upon hearing Sela's escape, Guinan tries to warn Picard about what Sela's motives would be should she have learned about her true origins. Picard warns the council, and subsequently Spock.
  • Sela eventually gets apprehended, but the damage had already been done: The star close to Romulus is set to go supernova in a matter of months. Spock, under the aid of the Vulcan Science Academy, construct the Jellyfish, and the events of Star Trek '09 occur.
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  #10327  
Old 05-15-2018, 04:35 AM
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The thing about replicators is that you can also put garbage back *into* them. Instant cheap recycling!

At least, I've always assumed that's how it works. Having tiny miniature nuclear fission reactors in every room on a spaceship has always struck me as slightly weird, but eh.
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  #10328  
Old 05-15-2018, 05:41 AM
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With transporters, waste disposal should be a piece of cake since it can recombine waste into any useful combination of its constituent parts, and it can all be transported somewhere else with ease. So our modern concept of waste disposal I've always assumed is a non-issue for them.
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  #10329  
Old 05-15-2018, 05:46 AM
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So all the toilets on the Enterprise pipe directly into the replicators? Including the food ones?
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  #10330  
Old 05-15-2018, 07:51 AM
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Has Star Trek ever even shown a toilet? Do people of the future still make poo-poo and pee-pee? I'd google the answer, but
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  #10331  
Old 05-15-2018, 08:45 AM
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It was in Star Trek 5: The One We Don't Talk About.
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  #10332  
Old 05-15-2018, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfried View Post
After having watched the Redemption (and related episodes) arc of TNG, I have a feeling Sela might be the real reason why Romulus blows up. Here's a little hypothesis...
  • Being in custody of the Federation, Guinan somehow comes into contact with her. She explains to Sela about her mother's true origins (from being in a different timeline). Sela doubts Guinan's claims, but eventually learns the truth when she escapes and manages to get a hold of Classified Federation documents that show Tasha Yar as having been killed in Vagra II.
  • Feeling betrayed having lived her life as Romulan, not to mention suffering from an existential crisis, Sela now vows revenge on Romulus. She happens upon Tolian Soran's work on Trilithium, and hatched a scheme to cause a star nearby Romulus to go supernova. Unlike Dr. Soran's work, the results would not be "instantanious".
  • Upon hearing Sela's escape, Guinan tries to warn Picard about what Sela's motives would be should she have learned about her true origins. Picard warns the council, and subsequently Spock.
  • Sela eventually gets apprehended, but the damage had already been done: The star close to Romulus is set to go supernova in a matter of months. Spock, under the aid of the Vulcan Science Academy, construct the Jellyfish, and the events of Star Trek '09 occur.
That would have been a much better story than the compost heap that was John Logan's script for Star Trek Nemesis.
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  #10333  
Old 05-15-2018, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by q 3 View Post
Has Star Trek ever even shown a toilet? Do people of the future still make poo-poo and pee-pee? I'd google the answer, but
Yes they do. There's even an episode in Voyager that talks about it when the toilets stop working. Bolians especially need to use the bathroom uh... Frequently and lustily.
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  #10334  
Old 05-15-2018, 10:06 AM
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This reminds me how I keep forgetting to bring up how the NX-01 has the most luxurious showers ever shown on Trek, despite being a small ship where almost every other set is a bit scaled back.
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  #10335  
Old 05-15-2018, 10:32 AM
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Somewhat related, but "sonic showers" sound like the worst thing

A utopian future where I can't get my rub-a-dub-dub on is no utopia at all!
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  #10336  
Old 05-15-2018, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Vaeran View Post
Somewhat related, but "sonic showers" sound like the worst thing

A utopian future where I can't get my rub-a-dub-dub on is no utopia at all!
You and Janeway agree
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  #10337  
Old 05-15-2018, 10:46 AM
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Best Captain confirmed
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  #10338  
Old 05-15-2018, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Vaeran View Post
Best Captain confirmed
Obvs.

She also hates time travel and me and Val's HC is that she gets a migraine every time there's some timey-wimey bullshit, no matter where in the universe.

it makes the finale even better cos ofc Future Janeway just plops extra strength migraine meds in front of Present Janeway and says "you're gonna need this".
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  #10339  
Old 05-15-2018, 12:13 PM
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Speaking of Janeway is the best captain.

I burned through DS9 and now I'm onto Voyager. I've always maintained that Voyager was Actually Pretty Good, Really™ but it's amazing how much better it feels without franchise fatigue and a bit of a more mature perspective on things. I just watched an episode in Season 2 where nothing happened all episode except everyone kept wondering around the ship lost because the ship's spacial layout was being constantly warped, and it was *incredible*.

I'm also constantly thinking back to Janeway-criticisms I always hear internet troglodytes spew. One of the more pernicious ones is that Janeway doesn't seek council or blows off the opinions of her staff frequently. It's something I've found to be completely untrue so far. (There was actually a few jarring moments early where she confronted both Tuvok and IIRC Chakotay on separate occasions in private where she has a semi-meltdown because she relies on their opinions and input and steadying influences to do her job and she doesn't know how she'll be able to do her job effectively without those rocks to lean on.)

But beyond that, I don't think critics are taking into account her unique qualities as a character. Picard is a natural delegator and bureaucrat, so we see that often. Kirk almost has a codependent relationship with Spock and McCoy where they play angel and devil on his shoulder to inform all his decisions. And Sisko is in command of a whole space station, and by merit of that station's importance, basically an entire sector, he has to be diplomatic and confer to other authorities. But Janeway? She's captain of a lone ship, marooned and exploring the far reaches of the galaxy. She's out encountering the unknown every day. But she's also first and foremost a trained scientist. Other shows have dedicated science officers (Spock, Data, Dax) to offer expertise and input to their captain. But Janeway IS the science officer. Often she shoots down advice here or there because she actually does know best.

This shuffling of character roles is secretly one of Voyager's strengths, and it's kind of a pity it both doesn't get celebrated enough, or honestly explored enough within the show. The Vulcan is a security officer. The captain is the scientist. The doctor is a first aid kit. The pilot is a nurse. Half the crew are enemy combatants. The terrorist first officer is a peace-loving hippy. The Asian-guy is a lady's man? When the show explores these dichotomies and emphasizes the resilience and adaptability of people, it really shines. You can tell that during initial planning of the show this was something they were going for, but the subsequent writers just kinda didn't know how to deal with it.
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  #10340  
Old 05-15-2018, 12:20 PM
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Janeway also wants to be the one that takes any blame or flack for decisions. Which I think is especially important in their situation.

"I am your captain and that means I will step on necks to protect you and take the flak."

She's also 150% dedicated into getting ALL of her crew home: Starfleet and Maquis alike. As a counterpoint for ds9's "war means casualties" Janeway (and Voyager) consider any possible casualties to be an absolute dealbreaker (there are no red shirts). It's an excellent contrast imo.
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  #10341  
Old 05-15-2018, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meditative_Zebra View Post
So now I'm imagining that one of Starfleet's main missions is trash disposal. Starfleet has spaceships and discovers aliens and wages war and gathers up all the trash on the planet and dumps it off on distant systems safely away from where it would dirty the view of a citizen of the United Federation of Planets. All the officers on the Enterprise or other starships that royally screw things up wind up with their careers derailed and shunted off to a position as a glorified trash collector on a starship whose ongoing mission is to gather a payload of trash from Ursa Minor and launch into some wayward and unimportant star system's sun.
Careful now, that kind of talk could start some trouble.

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  #10342  
Old 05-15-2018, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Büge View Post
That would have been a much better story than the compost heap that was John Logan's script for Star Trek Nemesis.
I can't believe some people are willing to trash the Alternate Timeline movies to defend Star Trek Nemesis, especially after having watched Star Trek Beyond, which is Nemesis Done Right. Edit: Okay, now that I think about it, I don't think there is such a thing as a "Nemesis Done Right".

Last edited by sfried; 05-15-2018 at 10:37 PM.
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  #10343  
Old 05-19-2018, 04:47 AM
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Necessary Evil is an episode I probably would have enjoyed more if I wasn’t employing my usual “Listening to it while I play a video game” method of watching Star Trek. As it is, I found it kind of hard to follow. Plus I had to keep muting it so I could listen for the tell-tale scritching of hidden Skultulas.

Anyhow; Quark has been hired by a former client of his (I’d question how that order of operation works, but she’s an attractive woman wearing a clingy dress, and he’s Quark) to track down a lock box her deceased husband hid on the station. And as soon as he does he’s attacked and nearly killed by a mystery assailant.

And the whole thing reminds Odo of the first case he was ever assigned, and which he was never able to solve (making me question how he wound up with the job, frankly); investigating the murder of aforesaid husband and also serving as Odos introduction to about half the main cast.

Which is what really threw me off for most of the episode because of how little attention I was paying to the screen; it’s really hard to tell what was a flashback scene when you aren’t looking at the screen.

Anyway; the lockbox contained a list of names for the rebel cell that Kira was a part of, and the dead husband was a traitor to that cell who was planning on selling them out to the Cardassians for fat stacks. And Kira was the one what murded him good.

And Odos selective sense of absolute justice lots to overlook that because Kira’s his buddy.
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  #10344  
Old 05-19-2018, 04:27 PM
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I remember really liking the ending to this one at the time just because I didn't at all expect a twist that would leave neither Kira nor Odo looking particularly good.
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  #10345  
Old 05-21-2018, 02:15 AM
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The Thaw - Voyager S2E23: I don't usually write about specific episodes, but this one really stuck out to me. I vivdly remember watching this episode as a kid and absolutely hating it. And today, I find myself enthralled and utterly entranced by it.

Voyager finds a small handful of people in suspended animation, marooned after an ecological catastrophe and waiting for decades for the environment to heal itself. It isn't just a normal deep-sleep however. Their minds are all plugged into a VR shared experience. This form of long stasis combined with entertainment was only supposed to last for a set duration, but its inhabitants never woke up, so Voyager sends a few technicians into their VR to find out what went wrong.

Turns out, the simulation they were living in gained sentience, and realizing that their existence would cease to be if the VR inhabitants all woke up, they decided to hold them hostage by killing them if they ever tried to leave (if you die in a dream logic). The AI here, are characterized by some pretty nutso space-clown iconography.

The space-clowns always unnerved me, and was definitely the root cause of my hating the episode as a kid. They're pretty creepy and gross! And they're intentionally embodying the idea of 'fear' per the theme of the episode and how they kill their hostages (scare them to death, basically). But man, watching this as a grown-ass adult, it's simply amazing. This is some octo-good levels of Star Trek. It's just gonzo silly.

And then it ends on a legitimately amazing note. Janeway Has Had Enough of This Shit and decides to show this fear-monster what fear is really about. So she subs herself in during a hostage exchange, but has the courage, temerity, and wit to trick the fear-monster and turn the tables on it. And the episode doesn't end with the usual coda of the crew talking on the bridge and musing about what happened and the lesson they learned. Instead, it ends with Janeway staring down this horror-clown and bringing it to heel. As its existence slowly fades into the void, she taunts it and makes it feel fear instead. And god damn, Janeway is such a fuckin' badass. She has so much presence and is super fierce. She is the best space-mom, and I'd follow her through hell and back. Like seriously, watch this shit:



Also, Michael McKean as The Clown really knocks this one out of the park.
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  #10346  
Old 05-21-2018, 04:24 AM
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Janeway vs Space Kefka was a great moment, yes.

(Kinda sad that clip cuts out his last line though. Drat.)
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  #10347  
Old 05-29-2018, 06:24 AM
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I generally don't like Voyager or Janeway, but I did like The Thaw. And that's odd, because it seems to wind up in a lot of "worst of Voyager" lists online. It goes down better if you cast aside your expectations and approach it as an episode of classic Trek, with the same limited budget, outrageous costumes, and hammy acting.

Janeway's gambit to trap and delete Fear was surprisingly clever... I'm used to this captain making questionable decisions (turning on a combat droid in spite of her science officer's objections, for instance) but it felt like she was thinking two steps ahead in this episode. Also, as was mentioned, Fear's death is brilliant. No overblown CGI; just a simple, effective fade to black that eclipses the villain's desperate face.

Anyhoo. Watching the Deep Space Nine episode Second Sight right now. I'm looking forward to Octopus Prime's synopsis, because I think there's a lot for him to digest here, and Sisko's love interest is played by Salli Richardson, the woman who voiced the street smart lady cop from Gargoyles. I'm reminded of just how different this show was in its early seasons, before the Dominion War ratcheted up the intensity. The mood is calmer, the characters more casual, the situations more varied.

Sisko in particular is soft-spoken, warmer, and more introspective. It seems like after he went up in rank and shaved his head, he lost a little of his humanity in the process. I mean, I admire Sisko for making all those tough choices in wartime, but at the same time I miss the moments where he was bonding with his son over dinner or having friendly conversations with Dax.
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  #10348  
Old 05-29-2018, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArugulaZ View Post
Janeway's gambit to trap and delete Fear was surprisingly clever... I'm used to this captain making questionable decisions (turning on a combat droid in spite of her science officer's objections, for instance)
I'm now about halfway through the third season of Voyager, and it's reconfirming a lot of my previous evaluations of Janeway as a captain. I'm not finding her particularly any more or less prone to making "questionable decisions" than any of the other captains we follow. She's far less likely to transport herself down to a planet blindly putting herself and thus her whole ship at immense risk like Kirk. And she never recklessly started interstellar wars the way Sisko did. And she never willingly brought a bunch of children and civilians into battlezones or emergencies the way Picard does.

That's not to say she doesn't make brash decisions, but there's a moment at the end of the most recent episode I watched that I feels puts it all into perspective:

S3E13 - Fair Trade: Neelix finds himself being a sucker for an old friend's illegal dealings, and increasingly finds himself in deeper levels of shit and also putting his friends and crewmates into more and more peril. The entire impetus for this, is the fact that Neelix is becoming increasingly terrified of losing his role/home on the ship, as Voyager is about to cross into uncharted space he knows nothing about and thus cannot lend effective council anymore. And at the end of the episode, Janeway gives him a stern talking to and masterfully both puts her foot down and gives him an invisible, reassuring hug. Neelix explains his terror, both at losing his place on the ship and also not being able to guide Voyager safely from here on. And Janeway, rather touched but also taken aback, explains something to Neelix that I think people critical of her (and other captain's) brashness need to reconsider once and a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janeway
None of us knows what's coming, that's what Starfleet is about.
The members of Starfleet are first and foremost, explorers. The very nature of their job is to go out into the unknown and be brash. If everyone just made only the most safe and logical decisions, they'd never leave their solar systems. An idea that recalls the entire mantra of the show, which is decidedly not "to safely tread where others have gone in the past". Making "questionable decisions" is kind of the whole point and allure of being an explorer of the frontiers.

Anywho, that was a really strong Neelix episode. I really love Neelix and the growth he displays as a person.
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  #10349  
Old 05-29-2018, 01:49 PM
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To be fair, Picard would never have taken children with him, and also not civilians, I guess. He at least dislikes kids. That was likely just a decision from higher up.
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  #10350  
Old 05-29-2018, 02:14 PM
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I don't think that's fair though. The whole point of the D is that the saucer section can separate in times of emergency so the civilians can sit in safety while the drive section goes off gallivanting. But Picard almost never does this, despite having plenty of opportunities to do so. We all know the real reason is because of production costs, but in-universe it's hard to look at it as anything but reckless behavior.
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