The Return of Talking Time

Go Back   The Return of Talking Time > Talking about media > Talking about television games

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 10-22-2017, 08:07 AM
Pombar's Avatar
Pombar Pombar is offline
Curious Young Gent
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Beijing
Posts: 9,673
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by estragon View Post
I don't know how I could be any more clear that this is absolutely not more of the same.
Not in terms of the game’s content but in terms of me liking the idea but not enjoying the final product, I mean. Saga-ey stuff tends to either be a massive fave of mine or utterly fail to hold my interest. Hard to tell with this one.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 10-22-2017, 08:53 AM
Sprite's Avatar
Sprite Sprite is offline
Crazy Old Bird
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 18,406
Default

Quote:
Duck Mecha
SOLD
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 10-22-2017, 12:51 PM
Ahamkara's Avatar
Ahamkara Ahamkara is offline
A smoothing criminal
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Somewhere between a rhetorical question and a punchline.
Posts: 588
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by estragon View Post
Oh, I forgot to post about it, but I played through what I gather is about the first 1/3 of this on a long trip a few weeks ago.
Thank you for the thorough early impressions, estragon!

Quote:
"This is too much like FFVI/Chrono Trigger (almost universally agreed upon as some of the greatest JRPGs of all time), but I wanted a slightly improved Legend of Legacy (thought of as a janky broken disaster)" is a complaint that I don't think will find a lot of agreement, but it's how I feel.
I was more or less expecting this to be the case after seeing some of the gameplay footage. I think I'll probably be sharing that complaint as well, considering how much I liked TLoL, but at least more people will find a lot to like here.

Quote:
*You can do a quicksave anywhere, in addition to normal saves. They're real saves that don't disappear after you open them, so you can just quicksave before a touch encounter if you want to push the limits of what your party can do with something you're obviously not "supposed" to fight. (The negative side of this: At least early on, these are pretty much the only challenging battles.)
At least for the quicksave feature, that's how it worked in TLoL as well. I like the little walking character sprites they show on your save to indicate your current party.

Also, it seems like your characters are generally more SP starved early on with the low values they start out with. Have there been any challenges when it comes to management of that (especially now that auto SP recovery in battle is a talent you have to unlock)?

Quote:
Some specific elements that bother me other than "this is Final Fantasy VI-2: Now With Sparks and Battle Formations instead of Legend of Legacy 2":

*It seems like it was designed with the XL 3DS models in mind, because in large zoomed out towns so many character models for NPCs are next to indistinguishable on my normal sized model. This is a problem in a game where there are multiple species of NPCs, and that's a central part of the story. Am I talking to a human, a kind of semi-furry elven type, or an animal servant (working as kind of grunts to the semi-furry elven types enslave humans). It takes something away that this isn't obvious.
*I feel like, in an attempt to be more accessible, they pared down what features are available early on. I kept thinking I missed some NPC conversation that would turn on a certain feature, but no it just comes really late. It feels like an overly cautious overcorrection to people being overwhelmed by Legend of Legacy.
I have a regular sized New 3DS, which is a bit bigger than the original. Think the screen size might be a problem there? I suppose I should just check it myself, haha.

Also, thank you for the heads up on the second part.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pombar View Post
Not in terms of the game’s content but in terms of me liking the idea but not enjoying the final product, I mean. Saga-ey stuff tends to either be a massive fave of mine or utterly fail to hold my interest. Hard to tell with this one.
Which of the SaGa-ey games have you both liked the idea of and enjoyed the final product?
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 10-22-2017, 01:06 PM
estragon's Avatar
estragon estragon is offline
この世の最も無智なる者
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 15,670
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahamkara View Post
Also, it seems like your characters are generally more SP starved early on with the low values they start out with. Have there been any challenges when it comes to management of that (especially now that auto SP recovery in battle is a talent you have to unlock)?
I haven't had this problem at all. Characters recover SP at the end of random battles even without the talent you're taking about (which is more of a mid-game thing, I've almost taught it to a few people), which adds recovery in battle every turn. There are also cheaper talents accessible in the early game that reduce costs for specific skill lines. Because the difficulty is so low for random battles (again, think 16-bit Final Fantasy, not Legend of Legacy), you can quickly recover SP before a boss fight or something by fighting a few mindless battles at 4x speed with only 0 SP skills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahamkara View Post
I have a regular sized New 3DS, which is a bit bigger than the original. Think the screen size might be a problem there?
I'm also playing on a regular sized New 3DS, and the characters in some towns feel really small. It's a shame, because the art style is adorable. It's not a game breaker, but it feels like it would read better on an XL system.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 10-22-2017, 02:01 PM
Ahamkara's Avatar
Ahamkara Ahamkara is offline
A smoothing criminal
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Somewhere between a rhetorical question and a punchline.
Posts: 588
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by estragon View Post
I haven't had this problem at all. Characters recover SP at the end of random battles even without the talent you're taking about (which is more of a mid-game thing, I've almost taught it to a few people), which adds recovery in battle every turn. There are also cheaper talents accessible in the early game that reduce costs for specific skill lines. Because the difficulty is so low for random battles (again, think 16-bit Final Fantasy, not Legend of Legacy), you can quickly recover SP before a boss fight or something by fighting a few mindless battles at 4x speed with only 0 SP skills.
The SP recovery at the end of random battles sounds like it was added with the balance update they did some time ago. I recall the demo not having that feature at all, but that's the demo and not the actual game, of course.

Talents that reduce costs for skill lines sound pretty nifty. I imagine they'd be a priority to get since they're cheap and available so early, but I'm not aware of what else might be helpful at that early part of the game. Faster running speed was another talent you could unlock, I think.

And shame about the lower difficulty in random battles, though part of that might be because of the larger party sizes and lack of needing to use elemental contracts to cast magic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by estragon View Post
I'm also playing on a regular sized New 3DS, and the characters in some towns feel really small. It's a shame, because the art style is adorable. It's not a game breaker, but it feels like it would read better on an XL system.
I imagine blowing up the screen would just make those small characters a bunch of large pixelly blobs, since the 400x240 resolution would still be the same but stretched over a larger screen.

And there's no 3D, right? I heard about that, which is unfortunate because 3D was part of what helped give TLoL its visual clarity and pop (heh).
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 10-22-2017, 02:26 PM
estragon's Avatar
estragon estragon is offline
この世の最も無智なる者
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 15,670
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahamkara View Post
And shame about the lower difficulty in random battles, though part of that might be because of the larger party sizes and lack of needing to use elemental contracts to cast magic.
I think it was a conscious balance choice based on complaints about battles in Legend of Legacy being too hard. You don't get a full five member party until pretty far into the game. It gets a little more difficult after you get a full party. Maybe the back half of the game will be more satisfying in this respect.

The lack of elemental contracts simplifies things though, definitely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahamkara View Post
I imagine blowing up the screen would just make those small characters a bunch of large pixelly blobs, since the 400x240 resolution would still be the same but stretched over a larger screen.

And there's no 3D, right?
No, the same NPC models look adorable when the screen is zoomed in. It's just that they're so tiny in some zoomed out towns you can't tell what they are.

Yes, there's no 3D.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 10-22-2017, 02:37 PM
Ahamkara's Avatar
Ahamkara Ahamkara is offline
A smoothing criminal
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Somewhere between a rhetorical question and a punchline.
Posts: 588
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by estragon View Post
I think it was a conscious balance choice based on complaints about battles in Legend of Legacy being too hard. You don't get a full five member party until pretty far into the game. It gets a little more difficult after you get a full party. Maybe the back half of the game will be more satisfying in this respect.

The lack of elemental contracts simplifies things though, definitely.
That makes sense. I imagine even the four member parties you have early on in the game make things a bit easier since you'd have an extra member attacking while one guards.

And not needing to contract for magic speeds up stuff a lot, too, though I'll miss the elemental tug-of-war battles with bosses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by estragon View Post
No, the same models look adorable when the screen is zoomed in. It's just that they're so tiny in some towns you can't tell what they are.

Yes, there's no 3D.
Yeah, I was talking about if you took the same zoomed out image and saw it on an XL instead. The game should have allowed us to zoom the camera in when in town (like how FFIII DS did it, iirc?). And ouch on no 3D, since those extra 400 horizontal pixels would have helped somewhat.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 10-22-2017, 03:01 PM
Sami's Avatar
Sami Sami is offline
Obsession or passion?
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,891
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by estragon View Post
Yes, there's no 3D.
Wonder if Nintendo has also been telling third parties to drop the 3D, like they've done with their own games? Their marketing as of late seems to focus on the 2DS and New 2DS, and out of all their upcoming and recent releases, Samus Returns looks like the only one that even has 3D anymore.

Dragon Quest XI also skipped the 3D among others. Definitely seems to be a trend.

Of course, I don't mind. I never liked the 3D. Just something I've observed lately.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 10-22-2017, 03:58 PM
Ahamkara's Avatar
Ahamkara Ahamkara is offline
A smoothing criminal
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Somewhere between a rhetorical question and a punchline.
Posts: 588
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sami View Post
Wonder if Nintendo has also been telling third parties to drop the 3D, like they've done with their own games? Their marketing as of late seems to focus on the 2DS and New 2DS, and out of all their upcoming and recent releases, Samus Returns looks like the only one that even has 3D anymore.

Dragon Quest XI also skipped the 3D among others. Definitely seems to be a trend.

Of course, I don't mind. I never liked the 3D. Just something I've observed lately.
It's a peculiar trend that makes me wonder if they've depreciated the function in recent updates to 3DS dev kits and software.

If you're in EU, I heard that they were slowly phasing out the New 3DS XL, as it hasn't shown up in marketing there for the past few months or so. Seems like the recent limited edition SNES version was one of the last ones to be available on the market.

And at least the 3D was toggle-able in 3DS models. It felt so weird playing 7th Dragon III without any 3D at all.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 10-22-2017, 04:48 PM
Pajaro Pete's Avatar
Pajaro Pete Pajaro Pete is offline
so exciting!
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 18,819
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sami View Post
Wonder if Nintendo has also been telling third parties to drop the 3D, like they've done with their own games? Their marketing as of late seems to focus on the 2DS and New 2DS, and out of all their upcoming and recent releases, Samus Returns looks like the only one that even has 3D anymore.

Dragon Quest XI also skipped the 3D among others. Definitely seems to be a trend.

Of course, I don't mind. I never liked the 3D. Just something I've observed lately.
i'd assume it's less "nintendo asked them to de-emphasize the 3D" and more "the system cannot handle these graphics and 3D at the same time"
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 10-22-2017, 08:07 PM
Ahamkara's Avatar
Ahamkara Ahamkara is offline
A smoothing criminal
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Somewhere between a rhetorical question and a punchline.
Posts: 588
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pajaro Pete View Post
i'd assume it's less "nintendo asked them to de-emphasize the 3D" and more "the system cannot handle these graphics and 3D at the same time"
I haven't seen too much of DQXI beyond a few snippets here and there, but I can't imagine it being that strenuous on the console when DQ VII was able to do it (and on original 3DS hardware, too). M&LSS DX also doesn't seem that much more technically demanding than the previous 3DS games, but I can't remember if they also ran at 60 fps or not.

Does Fire Emblem Warriors not feature 3D either? That'd be weird, especially since the 3DS version can only run on the New 3DS/2DS XL models.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 10-22-2017, 08:27 PM
Pajaro Pete's Avatar
Pajaro Pete Pajaro Pete is offline
so exciting!
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 18,819
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahamkara View Post
I haven't seen too much of DQXI beyond a few snippets here and there, but I can't imagine it being that strenuous on the console when DQ VII was able to do it (and on original 3DS hardware, too). M&LSS DX also doesn't seem that much more technically demanding than the previous 3DS games, but I can't remember if they also ran at 60 fps or not.

Does Fire Emblem Warriors not feature 3D either? That'd be weird, especially since the 3DS version can only run on the New 3DS/2DS XL models.
Dragon Quest 8 3DS didn't have 3D because of the hardware limitations, I'm assuming the same is true for 11. Hyrule Warriors Legends disabled 3D when playing on normal 3DS because of the hardware limitations. So that's what I'm going off of.

Obviously this doesn't speak for everyone making games on the 3DS, but these are specific examples of people saying "Yeah we didn't do 3D because it caused performance issues"
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 10-22-2017, 08:38 PM
Ahamkara's Avatar
Ahamkara Ahamkara is offline
A smoothing criminal
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Somewhere between a rhetorical question and a punchline.
Posts: 588
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pajaro Pete View Post
Obviously this doesn't speak for everyone making games on the 3DS, but these are specific examples of people saying "Yeah we didn't do 3D because it caused performance issues"
I'd guess that it'd be due to the cost of spending time on optimization, probably. Budgets for development of 3DS games this late into the game must be significantly lower by now to account for the decrease in active users and possible sales.

Since we're still on this subject, have we heard anything about DEEP Strange Journey featuring steroscopic 3D?
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 10-23-2017, 02:21 PM
Coinspinner's Avatar
Coinspinner Coinspinner is offline
We have got the maxim gun
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Miam-- er, Atlantis
Posts: 2,166
Default

I only learned of this game yesterday, in the EO5 manual.

Looks more interesting than Legend of Legacy, but it would be harder for it not to. And I am very ready to put the 3DS behind me. Tempting though.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 10-23-2017, 03:16 PM
Sami's Avatar
Sami Sami is offline
Obsession or passion?
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,891
Default

I'm very ready to keep playing games on my 2DS and/or New 2DS several years into the future.

Trouble is, I'm not sure which games will be out of stock sooner rather than later. I don't like buying games just to stockpile them, but games like The Alliance Alive will probably be in short supply, especially a few years after launch. So there are some titles like this that I might have to snap up even if I don't get to play them right away.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 10-23-2017, 05:28 PM
MetManMas's Avatar
MetManMas MetManMas is online now
Come, noble knights!
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 19,147
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pajaro Pete View Post
Dragon Quest 8 3DS didn't have 3D because of the hardware limitations, I'm assuming the same is true for 11. Hyrule Warriors Legends disabled 3D when playing on normal 3DS because of the hardware limitations. So that's what I'm going off of.

Obviously this doesn't speak for everyone making games on the 3DS, but these are specific examples of people saying "Yeah we didn't do 3D because it caused performance issues"
Also the 3D support in the Gen 6 & 7 Pokémon games tends to be minimal to the point where they might as well not have it at all. Doing stereoscopic 3D on the 3DS means the system is rendering the same scene twice, using extra polygons and processing power. This especially shows in the E.V. training shooter minigame in X and Y, which supports the slider but takes a noticeable performance hit when it's on.

There are some companies that caught onto Not 3D running better than 3D early. Super Street Fighter IV 3D, which normally runs at 30 frames, has an option to set the game to 2D, where it runs 60 just like the console versions. Dead Or Alive Dimensions does similar when the 3D slider is off.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 12-06-2017, 12:35 AM
Ahamkara's Avatar
Ahamkara Ahamkara is offline
A smoothing criminal
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Somewhere between a rhetorical question and a punchline.
Posts: 588
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetManMas View Post
Also the 3D support in the Gen 6 & 7 Pokémon games tends to be minimal to the point where they might as well not have it at all. Doing stereoscopic 3D on the 3DS means the system is rendering the same scene twice, using extra polygons and processing power. This especially shows in the E.V. training shooter minigame in X and Y, which supports the slider but takes a noticeable performance hit when it's on.

There are some companies that caught onto Not 3D running better than 3D early. Super Street Fighter IV 3D, which normally runs at 30 frames, has an option to set the game to 2D, where it runs 60 just like the console versions. Dead Or Alive Dimensions does similar when the 3D slider is off.
Likewise, there are plenty of examples of polygon-intense games that were able to support both full 3D and a stable 30fps or higher minimum frame rate on original 3DS hardware (i.e. Kid Icarus Uprising, Kingdom Hearts 3D, Code Name: S.T.E.A.M., the Monster Hunter games). Game Freak really hasn't been known for performance optimization prowess for a long while now, going as far back as Diamond and Pearl with their maximum frame rate of 15fps on the original DS.

On the topic of fighting games, Tekken 3D: Prime Edition runs at a full 60fps in 3D, though it helps that Arika used their technical wizardry with their engine that was built from the ground up for the 3DS. And Super Smash Bros is the other obvious example that also runs at a full 60fps in 3D, but it helps that it has access to the extended RAM mode.

In the end, it still goes back to this point:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pajaro Pete View Post
Obviously this doesn't speak for everyone making games on the 3DS, but these are specific examples of people saying "Yeah we didn't do 3D because it caused performance issues"
Nobody really wanted to make major games that were New 3DS-exclusive at the cost of the potential audience. Extended RAM mode would have been nice for a few more games, though.


Anyways, here's a (not so) new trailer for the game:



Bit of a strange choice to rename Ursula "Azura", though.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 12-06-2017, 07:59 AM
narcodis's Avatar
narcodis narcodis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Salt Lake City UT
Posts: 3,543
Default

Very pumped for this game.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 12-06-2017, 08:00 AM
Loki's Avatar
Loki Loki is offline
2018 is the new 2017
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,821
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by narcodis View Post
Very pumped for this game.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 12-06-2017, 08:06 AM
estragon's Avatar
estragon estragon is offline
この世の最も無智なる者
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 15,670
Default

Oh, update on my earlier post: The difficulty gets less braindead once the scenario becomes less linear.
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 12-13-2017, 11:09 AM
Tanto's Avatar
Tanto Tanto is offline
Fishing for Felbloom
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NoVA
Posts: 9,508
Default

March 27 for the western release.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 12-13-2017, 11:15 AM
narcodis's Avatar
narcodis narcodis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Salt Lake City UT
Posts: 3,543
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanto View Post
March 27 for the western release.
Nice. Early 2018 is gonna be full of JRPGs for me to crush.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 12-13-2017, 07:27 PM
Wolf's Avatar
Wolf Wolf is offline
Ancient Nameless Hero
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,761
Default

Damn, I thought it was supposed to be coming in February. Oh well, not like I'm lacking for games to play.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 12-14-2017, 03:31 AM
Ahamkara's Avatar
Ahamkara Ahamkara is offline
A smoothing criminal
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Somewhere between a rhetorical question and a punchline.
Posts: 588
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcodis View Post
Very pumped for this game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by estragon View Post
Oh, update on my earlier post: The difficulty gets less braindead once the scenario becomes less linear.
That's very good to hear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanto View Post
March 27 for the western release.
Thank you, Tanto!

And here's a new trailer to accompany that release date reveal:

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
happening , kawazu-flavored , legend of legacy , saga , spiritual successor

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Your posts ©you, 2007