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  #1051  
Old 11-28-2018, 11:42 PM
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Default Firefly is not a good Bebop guys

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Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
JFC, now theyíre making Carmen Sandiego into Lupin III 😒
Uhhh why are you acting like this is anything other than an amazing pitch


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Originally Posted by Octopus Prime View Post
Conversely, I canít think of anything that made Bebop so appealing that was dependant on it being animated.
The amazing animation for one!
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  #1052  
Old 11-28-2018, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Ludendorkk View Post
The amazing animation for one!
But more seriously, the flexibility of animation allowed it to be as playful as it was with genre and tone. I think basically everything that made Bebop appealing was dependent on animation.

Maybe computer animation has advanced to the point that a live action TV show can be that stylistically deft, but I'm skeptical unless this thing has an enormous budget.
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  #1053  
Old 11-29-2018, 12:45 AM
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One thing that Bebop has that Firefly doesn't is a Pembroke Welsh Corgi main character.

This is a significant difference!
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  #1054  
Old 11-29-2018, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Ludendorkk View Post
Uhhh why are you acting like this is anything other than an amazing pitch
Honestly, a lot of it boils down to distrust. But it's also worth nothing that Netflix is already giving us Lupin III. (In the form of Cowboy Bebop)

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Maybe computer animation has advanced to the point that a live action TV show can be that stylistically deft, but I'm skeptical unless this thing has an enormous budget.
There's no way this show is getting the enormous budget it would need, and you cannot convince me that there's any amount of budget that could get this to play well in live action:

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  #1055  
Old 11-29-2018, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
Honestly, a lot of it boils down to distrust. But it's also worth nothing that Netflix is already giving us Lupin III. (In the form of Cowboy Bebop)
What...what does this sentence mean?
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  #1056  
Old 11-29-2018, 06:51 AM
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Cowboy Bebop is obviously an amalgamation of dozens, likely hundreds of different inflences. But Shinichiro Watanabe has gone on the record many times saying the biggest influence for him making Cowboy Bebop was Lupin III, and how the core dynamic of those characters were the basis for Bebop. Itís pretty obvious when you think about it. Spike is Lupin, Jet is Jigen, Faye is Fujiko. (and a little less obvious, Vicious is Goemon.)
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  #1057  
Old 11-29-2018, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
Honestly, a lot of it boils down to distrust. But it's also worth nothing that Netflix is already giving us Lupin III. (In the form of Cowboy Bebop)

There's no way this show is getting the enormous budget it would need, and you cannot convince me that there's any amount of budget that could get this to play well in live action:

I donít think theyíre going to do a scene by scene remake. Hopefully they realize that the show has to be its own thing and play to live actionís strengths.
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  #1058  
Old 11-29-2018, 08:08 AM
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Firefly is Cowboy Bebop, and Cowboy Bebop is Lupin, so Firefly is Lupin
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  #1059  
Old 11-29-2018, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Becksworth View Post
Itís my understanding that Cowboy Bebop was originally aired in Japan on a broadcast TV network out of order for a handful of episodes before being prematurely canned, only to later achieve cult status from its full run on a satellite TV network and eventual theatrical release. Firefly even ripped off its pathway to nerd culture popularity from Bebop!

Of course I kid. Itís not like Firefly outright copied scenes almost down to the line from Cowboy Bebop or anything. *cough*Outlaw Star*cough*
To be fair, as far as I can recall, it was only that one scene. And itís kind of hard to shoot a scene where a large piece of luggage is revealed to secretly be a sleepy naked lady distinctly each time.
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  #1060  
Old 11-29-2018, 01:14 PM
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Firefly and Cowboy Bebop are kinda textbook "same on paper but couldn't be more different" shows. For instance, one way that Firefly differentiates itself from Cowboy Bebop is by being very bad.
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  #1061  
Old 11-29-2018, 01:48 PM
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A billion people wearing trenchcoats over white sneakers at nerd conventions couldn't possibly be wrong, teg.
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  #1062  
Old 11-29-2018, 01:49 PM
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Firefly and Cowboy Bebop are kinda textbook "same on paper but couldn't be more different" shows. For instance, one way that Firefly differentiates itself from Cowboy Bebop is by being very bad.
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  #1063  
Old 11-29-2018, 02:12 PM
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I like Firefly, but it leans way more into "space western" while bebop is much more a Tarantino-esque melange of inspirations (Jazz, hip-hop, Latin-America, Star Wars, etc).

I could be down with live-action Bebop, but I'm pretty sure it would take a budget the size of a small country's GDP to do with any kind of justice, and I just doubt that's going to happen. Hopeful, but not optimistic.
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  #1064  
Old 11-29-2018, 03:29 PM
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I always thought Firefly had a tone closer to the old Sonic cartoon. The similarity to Bebop wasn't something that ever came to mind for me, and the closest thing I can think of that might resemble it (Bebop) is probably Leverage
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  #1065  
Old 11-29-2018, 03:30 PM
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Honestly though I would probably fund any show that wanted to describe itself as "It's Leverage, but in space, and there's a corgi"
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  #1066  
Old 11-29-2018, 03:53 PM
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Two tiny details that make me a little optimistic about the Cowboy Bebop thing: The teaser uses "3-2-1 Let's Jam" and the top line of the presser calls it " jazz-inspired, genre-bending." If they get the music right, it'll go a long way to capturing the right feel. I could VERY easily imagine a western adaptation of Bebop missing the point and going with a "safe" score.
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  #1067  
Old 11-29-2018, 03:53 PM
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Honestly though I would probably fund any show that wanted to describe itself as "It's Leverage, but in space, and there's a corgi"
I would watch the hell out of that.
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  #1068  
Old 11-29-2018, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McClain View Post
Two tiny details that make me a little optimistic about the Cowboy Bebop thing: The teaser uses "3-2-1 Let's Jam" and the top line of the presser calls it " jazz-inspired, genre-bending." If they get the music right, it'll go a long way to capturing the right feel. I could VERY easily imagine a western adaptation of Bebop missing the point and going with a "safe" score.
I have zero faith that anyone on this side of the pacific outside of Guillermo del Toro has even the foggiest understanding of what makes these animes good (re: the drums from that eva trailer) so my expectations are essentially so low that they're six feet under. If it turns out to not be an unmitigated disaster, great. But what I'm expecting instead is for Faye to be cast as a white woman.
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  #1069  
Old 11-29-2018, 04:23 PM
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Oh, its gonna be cast with white people. We need a Bruce Lee type for Spike? How about Sam Worthington?
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  #1070  
Old 11-29-2018, 04:32 PM
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I'm okay with future space anime being cast with some white people if the characters read originally as ambiguous. If the character was actually written as Asian, like Faye was, then yeah, she damn well should be an Asian actress. Spike was born on Mars and is ??? so whatever, I guess, let Keanu play him (no, not really, please god no).

I know he's not drawn that dark, but Jet always read as black to me, probably mostly from his English VA.
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  #1071  
Old 11-29-2018, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by McClain View Post
I'm okay with future space anime being cast with some white people if the characters read originally as ambiguous.
Hard, HARD disagree. I would be deeply offended if that were the case. (Another reason I'm not setting myself up for disappointment here.) The racial/ethnic ambiguity on display in Cowboy Bebop is not just the regular "Western" confusion of "why do anime characters look white?" Bebop makes it a point to portray a vision of humanity that's ascended to live in the heavens, leaving behind old national and ethnic boundaries. Everyone is ethnically ambiguous because the world of Bebop is one where we're several hundred years into a future of ethnic melting pots doing their thing. There's a real opportunity here to take that idea and do it justice with hiring a staff of mixed race actors to portray these characters. As someone who is polyethnic myself, this is very important to me. Taking characters whose ethnicity is ambiguous on account of coming from many different places and just going "meh, w/e make 'em white" is some deeply offensive shit to me. It's already common that society/Hollywood likes to erase or simplify the complexities that is the mixed race person. And it's part of why Keanu Reeves was such a strong candidate to play Spike by fans (at least me) for so long, because here's a guy who looks like me and whose ethnic background is mixed and complicated just like what the characters in Bebop aught to be.
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  #1072  
Old 11-29-2018, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by McClain View Post
let Keanu play him (no, not really, please god no)
Unironically do let Keanu play him, Keanu Reeves is basically always a delight.

(They probably can't afford him.)
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  #1073  
Old 11-29-2018, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
Hard, HARD disagree. I would be deeply offended if that were the case. (Another reason I'm not setting myself up for disappointment here.) The racial/ethnic ambiguity on display in Cowboy Bebop is not just the regular "Western" confusion of "why do anime characters look white?" Bebop makes it a point to portray a vision of humanity that's ascended to live in the heavens, leaving behind old national and ethnic boundaries. Everyone is ethnically ambiguous because the world of Bebop is one where we're several hundred years into a future of ethnic melting pots doing their thing. There's a real opportunity here to take that idea and do it justice with hiring a staff of mixed race actors to portray these characters. As someone who is polyethnic myself, this is very important to me. Taking characters whose ethnicity is ambiguous on account of coming from many different places and just going "meh, w/e make 'em white" is some deeply offensive shit to me. It's already common that society/Hollywood likes to erase or simplify the complexities that is the mixed race person. And it's part of why Keanu Reeves was such a strong candidate to play Spike by fans (at least me) for so long, because here's a guy who looks like me and whose ethnic background is mixed and complicated just like what the characters in Bebop aught to be.
Sorry, I should have said "not Asian" rather than "white." Because, yeah, most of Bebop is filled with folks who are either a POC or appear mixed. if Spike was suddenly a white dude with light hair and blue eyes it would suck, for sure.
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  #1074  
Old 11-29-2018, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
I have zero faith that anyone on this side of the pacific outside of Guillermo del Toro has even the foggiest understanding of what makes these animes good
Guillermo del Toro is exceptional at many things, but I don't think he's a great fit for this either. While he's absolutely a peer of Miyazaki, Cowboy Bebop is all but tailor-made for James Gunn to adapt.

(Shane Black could do very well too, as long as we're fantasy-casting. Er, The Nice Guys Shane Black, not The Predator Shane Black.)
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  #1075  
Old 11-29-2018, 10:18 PM
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Guillermo del Toro is exceptional at many things, but I don't think he's a great fit for this either. While he's absolutely a peer of Miyazaki, Cowboy Bebop is all but tailor-made for James Gunn to adapt.

(Shane Black could do very well too, as long as we're fantasy-casting. Er, The Nice Guys Shane Black, not The Predator Shane Black.)
I literally can't think of anyone alive who could do Bebop justice, which is exactly why I've never wanted a live action version. Maybe like...if the Coen Brothers directed all the moody scenes and comedic scenes and someone else did the action scenes? And even then that still sounds wrong? I have no idea how they can pull this off.

Also I hope 1000% they don't try to do the main story and just do all one-off episodes about catchin' bandits

Also also I am extremely here for live-action Big Shot The Bounty Hunters
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  #1076  
Old 11-30-2018, 03:28 AM
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I don't have much to add to the dicussion. But reading it made me frustrated again that your Netflix has so many great shows that my Netflix doesn't. I want Firefly on Netflix too, damnit. And also Frasier, the Good Place (I mean, come on, it's great and new, why doesn't it stream anywhere here?), and the other stuff I don't remember just now.

I love Netflix, but this really frustrating. Anyway, carry on with your discussion.
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  #1077  
Old 11-30-2018, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Alixsar View Post
Also I hope 1000% they don't try to do the main story and just do all one-off episodes about catchin' bandits
Personally, if I were put in charge of making a live action Bebop, I'd try to sidestep the whole "do the original justice" issue as much as I can by making a sequel/companion series instead of remake. Next Generation this thing. Have Jet sell off the Bebop and retire, and have a whole new crew of destitute misfit bounty hunters with shady pasts bouncing around the solar system. That way we don't have to worry about will they be able to do X from the original, or will actor Y portray character Z right.
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  #1078  
Old 11-30-2018, 06:29 PM
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Guillermo del Toro is exceptional at many things, but I don't think he's a great fit for this either.
Let me be clear, I was in no way endorsing or recommending del Toro for directing this. I generally do not partake in fantasy castings or things of that nature. I was merely remarking how pretty much nobody in Hollywood knows the first thing about anime except maybe this one rare exception. (Also should have mentioned the Wachowskis.) And I wouldn't trust a single person in Hollywood to actually do it right.

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Originally Posted by Becksworth View Post
Personally, if I were put in charge of making a live action Bebop, I'd try to sidestep the whole "do the original justice" issue as much as I can by making a sequel/companion series instead of remake. Next Generation this thing.
Seems like a good idea until you realize that 1) "let's replace all the characters in this character driven show" is a fundamentally bad idea, and 2) "Next Generation this thing" generally doesn't work so good:



Netflix is re-dubbing Evangelion. And without any of the old dub voice actors. I personally couldn't give a crap, but the internet sure turned a 180 on Netflix & Eva real swift like.
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  #1079  
Old 11-30-2018, 06:59 PM
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I always thought Firefly had a tone closer to the old Sonic cartoon.


Firefly (2002)
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  #1080  
Old 11-30-2018, 06:59 PM
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the only question I have about Cowboy Bebop: Rebob is will it still have the episode with the Columbia or is that gonna be like a SpaceX rocket or something now
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