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View Poll Results: Just how much fuckery should we subject the game to?
Routing changes and/or combat changes (diff enemies, spells, AI, etc) 13 72.22%
Go all in and potentially add new dungeons with brand new content 5 27.78%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

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  #391  
Old 10-12-2017, 03:03 PM
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LaularuKyrumo LaularuKyrumo is offline
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How so? There are plenty of NPCs that give you a thing and then poof. If we can have eight TITANs, why not DOOR REPAIR CHARGEs?

also GENDRID is a great idea, especially if we have Princess SARA teleport the LIGHT WARRIORs to the far end of PRAVOKA.
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  #392  
Old 10-12-2017, 03:28 PM
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Because those NPCs are giving you items. No NPC gives you gold.

Maybe you could reskin a chest as an NPC? Would still need to program it to have negative gold (if that works go with that, actually).

PIRATEx7, GENDRID, BRINN.
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  #393  
Old 10-12-2017, 04:28 PM
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Just have a Key Item called 20 RUPEES. There'll be a blocking NPC saying PAY ME FOR THE DOOR REPAIR CHARGE, and Brick'll find 20 RUPEES some time after that.

EDIT: If we want to be really trolly about this, the same dungeon where you find 20 RUPEES could also have things like 300 ZORKMIDS, 50 COINS, and so on. Everything but the 20 RUPEES would just be a gold amount that gets added to your money total. We'll see if he actually checks his Key Items.

Last edited by dtsund; 10-12-2017 at 04:39 PM.
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  #394  
Old 10-12-2017, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtsund View Post
Just have a Key Item called 20 RUPEES. There'll be a blocking NPC saying PAY ME FOR THE DOOR REPAIR CHARGE, and Brick'll find 20 RUPEES some time after that.

EDIT: If we want to be really trolly about this, the same dungeon where you find 20 RUPEES could also have things like 300 ZORKMIDS, 50 COINS, and so on. Everything but the 20 RUPEES would just be a gold amount that gets added to your money total. We'll see if he actually checks his Key Items.
oh my god ... can we make EVERY road block item work like that? The TNT, ROD, RUBY, and just change the currency?
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  #395  
Old 10-12-2017, 06:11 PM
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LaularuKyrumo LaularuKyrumo is offline
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I was just going to make the NPC give an item that's a negative gold amount, instead of having it come out of a chest (because the code is the same as far as the game is concerned, whether an NPC gives gold or an item, it's still an "item")

but this idea is SO MUCH BETTER.

Incidentally, my current project is mapping out which NPCs use which dialogue options precisely, and the conditions associated--I've noticed that not only do certain plot triggers (e.g. rescuing Princess Sara) cause various NPCs to change their dialogue, but certain NPCs don't even appear until after their associated plot triggers (e.g. defeating PIRATEs in Pravoka). Having a tighter knowledge on how the events adjust NPC dialogue will give me more freedom to convert NPCs into gags, like the Door Repair Charge guy.

Coincidentally, from my brief forays into the pertinent menus as part of the FFHackster In A Nutshell post, I theorize (but have made no attempt to validate) that the code used for the TITAN can be reused on other NPCs who demand different key items--a 20 RUPEES item, for example. And yes, since the gold objects have their names decoupled from the actual gold values, it would be easy enough to implement the suggested 300 ZORKMIDS gag.
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  #396  
Old 10-17-2017, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destil View Post
Monsters can't get value from ALIT, because the routine for their elemental defense reads from ROM instead of RAM. Which is a shame, I like that more than intrinsic lightning resist.

We could fix that bug, though. Would actually make XFER good because it can strip all resists, not just dispel magic defenses.
So I'm already working on the first pass of changes. I would love to know if this proposal has any chance of working, because I love making the Anti-Element spells functional for monsters, as well as making XFER a useful spell. I fear that if too many changes get made, someone will have to take apart whatever version we've got and apply manual hex edits, which sounds terrifying.

So far I've done a couple minor dialogue tweaks, added some walls to the Temple of Fiends that force a full trip around the ring (until you come back later with the KEY), and changed the PIRATE fight to GENDRID, PIRATEx5. The new PIRATEs have 24hp instead of a measly 6, and are lead by GENDRID, the vile necromancer.

Code:
GENDRID
Defensive stats: HP 100, ABSORB 10, MORALE 255, AGILITY 10, Resistant to Ice + Status + Death + Poison, Weak to Fire, UNDEAD-family, MAGE-family
Offensive stats: DAMAGE 10, Hit% 16, Crit% 1, 1 hit/round, Sleep on hit (though he'll never use those stats, as right now he only ever casts magic), Spell threshold 128/128, Spell list MUTE SLEP FOG2 HEAL ICE ICE STOP LOK2
Rewards: 500gp 1000xp
I'm thinking I might take one of the useless direct damage monster skills and turn it into a single-target MUTE, since I was mistaken in my original claim that MUTE is single-target. It most definitely is not, and it seems to stick to every party member pretty reliably.
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  #397  
Old 10-24-2017, 09:12 PM
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So I learned something interesting from Brick's latest FF1 stream.

WARP takes you back one floor, no matter how you got there. McDohl cast WARP immediately after rescuing Princess Sara, and it took him back to the Temple of the Fiends.

I don't know that we can really exploit that somehow, outside of forcing Bl.MAGEs in the party (though Brick is likely to bring one anyways) but it is pretty gosh darn hilarious.
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  #398  
Old 10-24-2017, 09:18 PM
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aturtledoesbite aturtledoesbite is offline
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It's a great way to skip half the ICE CAVE because if you WARP after falling down a hole, you'll be put on top of the hole.
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  #399  
Old 10-24-2017, 09:54 PM
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you maybe could create a situation where warp can't get you out of, say, the marsh cave by looping stairs down in such a way that it is impossible to get out with just warp.

The other idea, of course, is to make the princess warp you into a trap room so you HAVE to warp back to the temple of fiends. I'd try to start brick with the spell if possible just to make it impossible to get stuck.
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  #400  
Old 10-24-2017, 10:03 PM
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I don't think you can make an infinite loop with WARP, sadly.
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  #401  
Old 10-24-2017, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post
I don't think you can make an infinite loop with WARP, sadly.
Maybe not infinite, but certainly enough stairs to make it impossible to escape with your warp charges. Just do a series of floors with just a set of stairs down. Assuming I understand how the spell works.
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  #402  
Old 10-24-2017, 10:21 PM
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Ah, right, spell charges are real limited, aren't they.

In that case it'd be real easy. You could have the cave go back and forth between floors, too; you don't need ten different floors.
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  #403  
Old 10-25-2017, 09:32 AM
EvilDeeMer EvilDeeMer is offline
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Whenever you travel between maps (ie without going to world map), the game adds the new floor/exit data to the stack. WARP just goes back one level in the stack. I'm not sure if you can overflow the floor stack like you can in FFIV.

Also, there is a limit to the number of 'staircase' tile definitions you can create. To make numerous stairs b/w the same two floors, you'd need to redefine existing tiles.

While I'm on the subject, there are three (IIRC) kinds of staircase definitions you can use: 1) takes you to a specific map and coordinate; 2) same as EXIT spell; 3) same as WARP spell. Most of the stairs you take deeper in a dungeon are type 1 and the return stairs are type 3. This saves space since the game only needs half of the staircases in the game to be defined.
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  #404  
Old 10-25-2017, 10:47 AM
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FADE available in Coneria as a level 1 spell, replacing RUSE.

But it's actually still RUSE, just renamed.
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  #405  
Old 10-25-2017, 11:37 AM
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Also NUKE, replacing LIT.

And it's also just LIT.
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  #406  
Old 10-25-2017, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDeeMer View Post
I'm not sure if you can overflow the floor stack like you can in FFIV.
Yes. This is why the fastest TAS speedrun for FF1 is under seven minutes.
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  #407  
Old 10-25-2017, 11:55 AM
EvilDeeMer EvilDeeMer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokeytax View Post
Yes. This is why the fastest TAS speedrun for FF1 is under seven minutes.
I see.

This is actually a great example of what I was talking about: Princess Sara normally teleports you to Corneria Castle 2F after beating Garland. As mentioned upthread, if you cast WARP, it will take back to the ToF. For this reason, the game cannot have a normal WARP-type stair here. Instead, it's a type 1 to take you directly to 1F, which also has a type 1 to take you to 2F. By taking this pair of stairs repeatedly, the TAS causes the stack to overflow and perform ACE.

Hacking is cool
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  #408  
Old 10-25-2017, 01:39 PM
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LOCK is secretly given the effects of XXXX, and PURE casts FADE.
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  #409  
Old 10-25-2017, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDeeMer View Post
While I'm on the subject, there are three (IIRC) kinds of staircase definitions you can use: 1) takes you to a specific map and coordinate; 2) same as EXIT spell; 3) same as WARP spell. Most of the stairs you take deeper in a dungeon are type 1 and the return stairs are type 3. This saves space since the game only needs half of the staircases in the game to be defined.
I'm not sure if that is incredibly smart or incredibly dumb or both at the same time (somehow).

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDeeMer View Post
Whenever you travel between maps (ie without going to world map), the game adds the new floor/exit data to the stack. WARP just goes back one level in the stack. I'm not sure if you can overflow the floor stack like you can in FFIV.
Is this actually possible? I've heard about it but never actually seen it anywhere.
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  #410  
Old 10-25-2017, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torzelbaum View Post
I'm not sure if that is incredibly smart or incredibly dumb or both at the same time (somehow).

Is this actually possible? I've heard about it but never actually seen it anywhere.
You'll see it in an FF4 TAS. Of course, FF4 actually handles its stairs properly, so it's more difficult; from what I remember, the first place that lets you break the game is the Dwarf Castle, because it loops so the game can't just handle which room you're in by seeing how far down the stack you are.
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  #411  
Old 10-25-2017, 09:55 PM
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Well, in any event, I plan on having Sara warp you to either Matoya's Tarin's cave or the Peninsula of Power, so that stair in the castle won't even be able to stack overflow anymore.

Anyway, any progress on properly reading RAM data instead of ROM for weakness/resistances? Would be pretty nice to not have to learn the ASM involved myself...
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