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  #181  
Old 01-29-2014, 08:45 AM
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Yeah Links should have it's own collumn, or "Other Notes" might start getting cluttered.
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  #182  
Old 01-29-2014, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post
Actually, someone had turned on a filter hiding all of the RPGs and forgot to turn it off. Fixed.

EDIT: Next time games start disappearing, check the sort buttons on each column. If one of them looks like a funnel instead of a down arrow, then a filter's still on. Just click on it and click "Select all" to turn it off.
Well done, sir! You have a keen eye.


I also think thread links are a great idea: LP, Fun Club, and dedicated game threads alike. I did some fiddling and it looks like we'd need dedicated columns for each, though. If a cell contains multiple URLs then the link-rendering becomes disabled, meaning you'd have to copy-paste the URL into a new tab/window to get anywhere, which of course isn't ideal.

And, although not necessary with a properly labeled column, the spreadsheet supports labeled links through the use of a formula. For example, here's how a "Fun Club" link for Xenoblade looks:

=hyperlink("http://www.talking-time.net/showthread.php?t=15203";"Fun Club")
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  #183  
Old 01-29-2014, 08:54 AM
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I see no problem at all with a few extra columns at the end for appropriate links.

Also damn I need to update LET'S READ STAR FOX more. I'll try and squeeze one in today.
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  #184  
Old 01-29-2014, 09:02 AM
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I went ahead and froze the first column of each sheet so we can always see the game title when scrolling horizontally.
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  #185  
Old 01-29-2014, 09:11 AM
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I don't want to remove other people's critisims, but some of these make me go "Wait, you played this right?

For example, Shinobi 3D had someone say that you can't skip the cutscenes. I removed that because you totally can. You just press start.

Also the complaints about Metal Gear Rising Revengance's Camera: I have no doubt whoever wrote that did so with complete honesty as their only intention, but having played the hell out of that game over the last few weeks, I never once had a problem with the camera movement speed. Furthermore the camera has a lock on feature that is perfectly adequate.

I don't want to say no someone else's opinions are invalid but damn.
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  #186  
Old 01-29-2014, 09:19 AM
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I didn't struggle with the movement speed, but found in close quarters and otherwise the camera can be a complete butt, even with lock-on. This was expressed by others in the thread, too (which I can't find right now).

I still think the Ace Attorney games should be seperated. As should the Professor Layton games. I've added entries for them, applying and adapting the original text to the first game in the series'. Feel free to revert if there's disagreement, but other series' haven't been bundled together like this, and I feel there is a quality difference in the AA games especially that should be remarked upon.

Edit: Should we have a seperate tab for queries, or something? Maybe red text for queries...? Or just keep it all here.
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  #187  
Old 01-29-2014, 09:35 AM
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It's cool to have the game names column locked, but I don't think we really need to have the top row locked in place at all times (with the instructions for changing the colors to green or gold). You see that thing every single time you load up a tab, that should be plenty.
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  #188  
Old 01-29-2014, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhair60 View Post
Edit: Should we have a seperate tab for queries, or something? Maybe red text for queries...? Or just keep it all here.
I vote for keeping the discussion in-thread for now. If we do decide that in-document would be better then we can use the comments feature of the spreadsheet. Once all the fur has flown the dialog can be marked as "resolved" and the comment goes away. For anyone trying out the Comments feature, be careful if you're already logged into Google because it will display your Google username, which you may not want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCBanjoMike View Post
It's cool to have the game names column locked, but I don't think we really need to have the top row locked in place at all times (with the instructions for changing the colors to green or gold). You see that thing every single time you load up a tab, that should be plenty.
Hmm, that might be hard to pull off without removing the color instructions entirely because I don't think we can freeze Row 4 without freezing everything above it. I suppose we could add a separate instructions tab and move it there.
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  #189  
Old 01-29-2014, 09:59 AM
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I added my name as the 15th 'seconded' person for Mega Man 9 and it's still Green.

Also, does anyone know why there's a square with a 1 on it on the GBA tab?
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  #190  
Old 01-29-2014, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAT View Post
I don't want to say no someone else's opinions are invalid but damn.
I've spent the vast majority of my time with this thing adding counterpoints to games I love dearly. Just acknowledging a flaw -- or even something that might possibly be considered a flaw -- for someone who might be turned off by it is a worthwhile use of the field, I think. For example, I don't really have a problem with linear games, but I know some people are really annoyed by them, so I've been trying to note when a game doesn't have much room for exploration. That doesn't make, say, Fire Emblem or Chrono Trigger any worse to me.

As for factual inaccuracies, I don't see any problem with deleting those.
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  #191  
Old 01-29-2014, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick View Post
I added my name as the 15th 'seconded' person for Mega Man 9 and it's still Green.
Then make it yellow! It's not automated.

Anyway, I did it for you.
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  #192  
Old 01-29-2014, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanto View Post
As for factual inaccuracies, I don't see any problem with deleting those.
Does that include the quote in the Mega Man 6 row about its 'great master weapon lineup'? Because Really?


Really?

Last edited by SpoonyBardOL; 01-29-2014 at 10:31 AM. Reason: Or maybe that's too snarky I dunno
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  #193  
Old 01-29-2014, 10:34 AM
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A pet peeve of mine is when a game is criticised for not being a different game. This bothers me in general and perhaps doesn't need to be addressed here, but I'd throw it out and see what people think. Counterpoints to Kirby's Adventure like "the powers only have one move each" is like critisizing Super Mario Bros for not having the leaf powerup. A game should be rated on its own merits. Not for failing to live up to later sequels or different games in the same series (Dragon Quarter to the earlier BoFs or Crystal Bearers to Crystal Chronicals for example).
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  #194  
Old 01-29-2014, 10:35 AM
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Game length is absolutely worth it's own column.

Forum thread... may not be? Due to our thread shortage fears jumping into a thread at random for info can be worthless at times. Decent if you want to talk about/ask questions about a game I suppose.
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  #195  
Old 01-29-2014, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhair60 View Post
Then make it yellow! It's not automated.

Anyway, I did it for you.
Oh, duh. I don't know why I assumed it was automated.
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  #196  
Old 01-29-2014, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki View Post
A game should be rated on its own merits. Not for failing to live up to later sequels or different games in the same series (Dragon Quarter to the earlier BoFs or Crystal Bearers to Crystal Chronicals for example).
Perhaps, but they won't be. If someone plays Kirby Super Star Ultra or Kirby's Return to Dreamland or Kirby Triple Deluxe and comes to this list looking to see if the earlier Kirby games are worth their time, they're going to want to know how they compare. I think it's perfectly valid to compare games to similar games (especially those in the same series) so people have a sense of where they fit in.

Nobody comes to a game free of expectations. It's as important to note what a game isn't as to say what it is.
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  #197  
Old 01-29-2014, 10:57 AM
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Perhaps, and I can totally see that side of the issue, but it seems wrong to me to list that as a criticism. Maybe that kind of thing would be more appropriate for Other Notes?
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  #198  
Old 01-29-2014, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoonyBardOL View Post
Does that include the quote in the Mega Man 6 row about its 'great master weapon lineup'? Because Really?


Really?
This isn't a problem, because in that case there's an easy solution: A counterpoint that concisely explains why that is wrong.
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  #199  
Old 01-29-2014, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick View Post
Also, does anyone know why there's a square with a 1 on it on the GBA tab?
Yes, madhair added a comment to the tab. I'm sure he intended to insert a note when promoting a game to ALL THE TYRANTS but used a comment instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick View Post
Oh, duh. I don't know why I assumed it was automated.
Because I faked you out by floating the idea and parking the implementation in the sandbox tab. But now I prefer color changes being manual because it's something more to do in the garden.
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  #200  
Old 01-29-2014, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki View Post
Perhaps, and I can totally see that side of the issue, but it seems wrong to me to list that as a criticism. Maybe that kind of thing would be more appropriate for Other Notes?
I guess the issue here is that I see the Counterpoints column as less "Damning criticism" and more "Here are some potential hazards or quirks you might want to know about before you decide to play this game." Especially given that we are dealing exclusively with games at least one Tyrant likes.
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  #201  
Old 01-29-2014, 11:11 AM
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Madhair's generally right in his criticisms, there's no problem with having some voice in the document, but it should be useful above all else.

Also, the weapons in six are better than the ones on three, even if the overall game design is worse and gives you fewer spots you'll want to use them.
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  #202  
Old 01-29-2014, 11:11 AM
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The spreadsheet has taught me one thing.

I do not like the games TT likes.
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  #203  
Old 01-29-2014, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki View Post
A game should be rated on its own merits. Not for failing to live up to later sequels or different games in the same series (Dragon Quarter to the earlier BoFs or Crystal Bearers to Crystal Chronicals for example).
That's not exactly what's been bugging me, but...well, here, I'll quote this just in case:

Quote:
Killed the series (arguably) because it was such a drastic change from standard Breath of Fire gameplay. Well, until iOS milked the BoF name, anyway.
I just removed that from the Dragon Quarter entry (previously, I added the "(arguably)" because I didn't want to delete it outright). It doesn't really have anything to do with the quality of the game, and besides, who knows that the series would have continued if a different (less good) game had been made?
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  #204  
Old 01-29-2014, 11:35 AM
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Ok I really don't want to derail the thread and make this a thing but

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destil View Post
Also, the weapons in six are better than the ones on three
How, exactly? I fully accept that I just might not be seeing something. But if I remember right most of the weapons in Six were mostly re-skinned projectiles that used the same sound effect as the buster, even, which made them feel even more samey. At most the Blizzard attack had an odd attack formation, though of dubious usefulness, and Flame Man's weapon could also melt ice in the, like, two stages it appeared in. Everything else was seen before. Wind Man's weapon was Snake Man's, Centaur Man's was Gravity Man's (without the novelty of sending enemies into the sky), the Yamato Spear was the Needle Cannon, the Plant Barrier is the least impressive shield weapon in the series, Knight Crush's weird 'loop around' trajectory didn't save its short range.

Tomahawk Man's weapon is the only one I'd remotely consider useful, but only against bosses designed to be right in its odd line of fire.

The above point is most important, I really can't think of many stages where you would switch to the Master Weapons in lieu of the buster, let alone the Rush Jet. Mega Man VI is probably one of the worst offenders in terms of 'is boss weak to weapon? then use. else, use buster' in the series.

I don't mean to rant like this in a non-Mega Man thread, but I just can't grok the notion that Mega Man VI's Master weapons could be considered useful, let alone 'great'. What am I not seeing?

(You know what, I'll even put all this behind a spoiler tag so you don't need to see it if you don't want to. I dunno, maybe this should be continued in the general Mega Man thread?)

EDIT: And then I did.

Last edited by SpoonyBardOL; 01-29-2014 at 11:58 AM.
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  #205  
Old 01-29-2014, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by breakman View Post
Quote:
Killed the series (arguably) because it was such a drastic change from standard Breath of Fire gameplay. Well, until iOS milked the BoF name, anyway.
I just removed that from the Dragon Quarter entry (previously, I added the "(arguably)" because I didn't want to delete it outright). It doesn't really have anything to do with the quality of the game, and besides, who knows that the series would have continued if a different (less good) game had been made?
I agree with your editorial move here. I added "Significant change from standard BoF gameplay" to the Other Notes column, because I think it's a helpful note.
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  #206  
Old 01-29-2014, 11:40 AM
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Oops. Replaced comments with notes.

i boan't noooote
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  #207  
Old 01-29-2014, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destil View Post
Game length is absolutely worth it's own column.

Forum thread... may not be? Due to our thread shortage fears jumping into a thread at random for info can be worthless at times. Decent if you want to talk about/ask questions about a game I suppose.
I agree about game length - people have been using it as a point for or against certain games, but not everyone has the same time to invest in a game. Personally, I'm generally happier when a game is really short, rather than upset. But putting an estimated length column in lets the reader judge for themselves whether the length will be off-putting.

I don't see why we can't have links to relevant threads, it would be a good way to find more discussion on a game that you're interested in playing.
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  #208  
Old 01-29-2014, 12:18 PM
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The problem is a thread will start with pre-release hype and speculation years before the game comes out, and there's no way of knowing where actual discussion starts (or if it's cut off for a month of fun club as the discussion moves).
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  #209  
Old 01-29-2014, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destil View Post
The problem is a thread will start with pre-release hype and speculation years before the game comes out, and there's no way of knowing where actual discussion starts (or if it's cut off for a month of fun club as the discussion moves).
Well that's more of a general problem with this forum. It still wouldn't hurt to link a game's thread, in case the reader wants to learn more or see what people thought of a game back when it first came out.
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  #210  
Old 01-29-2014, 12:35 PM
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So there was clearly this massive shared-spreadsheet-shaped hole in the heart of Talking Time that nobody realized was there until it was filled.

I just wanted to make clear, in case it wasn't already, that just because I'm the "owner" of the spreadsheet doesn't mean I want to be a dictator or even the final arbiter. Add columns, play around, do whatever (just do it consistently -- if you add a column in one tab you really need to take the time to add it in the others); if it's a good idea it'll stick, and if it doesn't work someone'll come along and change it.

Just keep it friendly. That's all I ask.

(That said, I like the extra columns idea for TT links, game length, etc. More data is good for making buying decisions!)
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