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  #8551  
Old 10-25-2016, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Red Hedgehog View Post
I must have missed the genetically engineered field commanders, administrators, scientists, and diplomats not to mention the super-soldiers with a deadly drug addiction.
I assume it has more to do with the Founders preemptively lashing out blindly at people they don't understand and aren't inherently a threat because of an unwarranted victim complex and intense xenophobia/racism, and employing proxies to fight their battles for them.
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  #8552  
Old 10-25-2016, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
I assume it has more to do with the Founders preemptively lashing out blindly at people they don't understand and aren't inherently a threat because of an unwarranted victim complex and intense xenophobia/racism, and employing proxies to fight their battles for them.
(It was a joke because DZ said everything about the Dominion. The Founders allegory was pretty clear)
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  #8553  
Old 10-26-2016, 03:59 PM
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The Magnificent Ferengi is an episode that puts Quark on a rescue mission to save his Mother Moogie from the Dominion and ultimately turns into Weekend at Bernies somehow. It was great.

Boy I can't wait for the next Ferengi episode!

*looks ahead*


nooooooooooooooooo
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  #8554  
Old 10-26-2016, 04:11 PM
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Just go back and re-watch Little Green Men instead.
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  #8555  
Old 10-26-2016, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by TirMcDohl View Post
Just go back and re-watch Little Green Men instead.
Fun fact, that was the first DS9 episode I ever saw. I could barely understand a word out of two because of my limited English at the time.
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  #8556  
Old 10-26-2016, 07:00 PM
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Uh oh

http://io9.gizmodo.com/dont-freak-ou...dis-1788260493
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  #8557  
Old 10-26-2016, 08:05 PM
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Yeah, that's more than a little disconcerting. Maybe this isn't just typical sugar coating of TV production politicking, but it's still typically a bad sign of things to come. We can only hope that the people who step up to the plate to fill the void are competent and studio intervention isn't as bad.
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  #8558  
Old 10-26-2016, 08:25 PM
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I've honestly never been too enamored of any of Fuller's actual shows, so having him contribute in a writing/consulting capacity (like he used to do anyway) isn't a dealbreaker for me. And yeah, sour grapes, I know.
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  #8559  
Old 10-26-2016, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
Yeah, that's more than a little disconcerting. Maybe this isn't just typical sugar coating of TV production politicking, but it's still typically a bad sign of things to come. We can only hope that the people who step up to the plate to fill the void are competent and studio intervention isn't as bad.
That is a bit troublesome. Hopefully, since the show is on an on-demand service, there won't be as much pressure from the studio.

On another note, I never realized until now that the arms dealer Quark and his cousin partner with in Business as Usual was played by the villain from Beverly Hills Cop.
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  #8560  
Old 10-26-2016, 10:51 PM
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There's probably more pressure TBH. CBS is banking on Star Trek carrying its streaming platform into relevance. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that that pressure was interfering too much in production and led to this event.
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  #8561  
Old 10-27-2016, 06:14 AM
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Finished TNG season one yesterday. "The Neutral Zone" could have been good but the intensity of the Romulans' return and the mystery of the mutual threat to both empires was severely undercut by:

1. The presence of a bunch of dumb 20th century nabobs on the Enterprise and
2. The one Romulan saying "We are back." THAT IS TERRIBLE WRITING

Much better season overall than its reputation would indicate, though. In hindsight, the rough first few episodes work pretty than they did at the time as the crew was still learning to work together (vs. the original series, where they had already been together for a while).

Also, I had trouble giving much of a crap about Yar's death, though I do appreciate that it wasn't drawn out — she died pretty much like any redshirt would. Quickly and senselessly.
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  #8562  
Old 10-27-2016, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by SpoonyBardOL View Post
The Magnificent Ferengi is an episode that puts Quark on a rescue mission to save his Mother Moogie from the Dominion and ultimately turns into Weekend at Bernies somehow. It was great.
In a world where Take Me Out to the Holosuite doesn't exist, this is my favourite episode of DS9. I eagerly anticipate the 2018 Octo review.
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  #8563  
Old 10-27-2016, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
2. The one Romulan saying "We are back." THAT IS TERRIBLE WRITING
Nah, it was a pretty good "watch out, we're the top heels now that the insane idea that the Ferengi were going to carry this series has apparently been thrown out" moment.
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  #8564  
Old 10-27-2016, 10:21 AM
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Nah, it was a pretty good "watch out, we're the top heels now that the insane idea that the Ferengi were going to carry this series has apparently been thrown out" moment.
The idea was good and needed, the dialogue was idiotic. If they'd skipped the frozen bumpkin B-plot this could have been a tense and subtle reintroduction to the Romulans instead of just a couple of dudes smirking at the camera and stating their heavy-handed threats and literally spelling out for the viewer "WE ARE THE BAD GUYS NOW."

Just watched "The Child." There was the germ (if you'll pardon the expression) of a powerful episode about consent and the right of choice that surfaces for the 15 seconds during which Deanna suffers a bunch of dudes talking about what to do with her pregnancy as if she weren't even there. Unfortunately I don't think prime time television was ready for that episode back in 1988, so that really intense moment vanishes into a pointless episode built around inflicting something terrible on the only returning female regular from Season One. Whoops.
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  #8565  
Old 10-27-2016, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parish View Post
Finished TNG season one yesterday. "The Neutral Zone" could have been good but the intensity of the Romulans' return and the mystery of the mutual threat to both empires was severely undercut by:

1. The presence of a bunch of dumb 20th century nabobs on the Enterprise and
2. The one Romulan saying "We are back." THAT IS TERRIBLE WRITING

Much better season overall than its reputation would indicate, though. In hindsight, the rough first few episodes work pretty than they did at the time as the crew was still learning to work together (vs. the original series, where they had already been together for a while).

Also, I had trouble giving much of a crap about Yar's death, though I do appreciate that it wasn't drawn out — she died pretty much like any redshirt would. Quickly and senselessly.
But!

It has this:

WORF: Even so, what gives them the right to enter Federation space?
TEBOK [on viewscreen]: Silence your dog, Captain.
PICARD: Lieutenant Worf's question is valid.
THEI [on viewscreen]: To even to ask such a question implies that we need permission. We do not.
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  #8566  
Old 10-27-2016, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parish View Post
Unfortunately I don't think prime time television was ready for that episode back in 1988, so that really intense moment vanishes into a pointless episode built around inflicting something terrible on the only returning female regular from Season One. Whoops.
notable also that when they do dish up an on-the-nose abortion metaphor ("Up the Long Ladder"), it's Riker's body that we're most apparently concerned about.
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  #8567  
Old 10-27-2016, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by chud_666 View Post
But!

It has this:

WORF: Even so, what gives them the right to enter Federation space?
TEBOK [on viewscreen]: Silence your dog, Captain.
PICARD: Lieutenant Worf's question is valid.
THEI [on viewscreen]: To even to ask such a question implies that we need permission. We do not.
Yes. That was a good exchange. If all the Romulan dialogue had been like that, I wouldn't be complaining.

I also liked the bit in "The Child" where Worf volunteered to tuck Wesley in at night. It's nice that he was given a wry sense of humor along with his yellow uniform.
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  #8568  
Old 10-27-2016, 12:38 PM
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notable also that when they do dish up an on-the-nose abortion metaphor ("Up the Long Ladder"), it's Riker's body that we're most apparently concerned about.
Is that the one that's super racist against the Irish?
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  #8569  
Old 10-27-2016, 12:42 PM
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Is that the one that's super racist against the Irish?
I would characterize it as an innocent attempt at humor gone horribly, horribly wrong.

Like, it's not as bad as Code of Honor.

Still bad though.
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  #8570  
Old 10-27-2016, 12:51 PM
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I would characterize it as an innocent attempt at humor gone horribly, horribly wrong.

Like, it's not as bad as Code of Honor.

Still bad though.
The racism not being as bad is debatable.

The quality of the episode is almost certainly as bad.
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  #8571  
Old 10-27-2016, 12:58 PM
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The sad thing is, "Code of Honor" would have been perfectly mundane, bog-standard, Our Imperialism Is The Best Imperialism Star Trek (it's pretty much just a rip-off of "Amok Time"!) if they hadn't made the alien race consist entirely of Tarzan-esque Jungle Negro caricatures. Like, if they were lanky blue space elves played by mostly white actors, no one would have even blinked.
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  #8572  
Old 10-27-2016, 01:33 PM
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But! All other planets are homogenously white!
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  #8573  
Old 10-27-2016, 01:48 PM
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#notallplanets
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  #8574  
Old 10-28-2016, 04:51 PM
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Waltz is almost like Misery, but instead of a famous author being rescued and subsequently held against his will by an insane fan, an injured Captain Sisko is rescued and then held against his will by an insane fan and also the fan is Gul Dukat.

Sisko winds up almost escaping by pushing his unhinged captor even further over the brink, but I can't help but think knowing what happens later how this might have been a mistake.

Gul Dukat: I need you to approve of me. Tell me I'm good and moral and just the best person ever.
Sisko: Instead tell me what you really think about the Bajorans.
Gul Dukat: Oh the Bajorans! Ungrateful backwards people!
Sisko: You hate them don't you?
Gul Dukat: Yes! I hate them sooooo much! Them and their superstitions and earrings and wrinkled noses!
Sisko: You want to kill them don't you?
Gul Dukat: Yes! I do! In fact, I want to KILL THEM ALL
Sisko: Um
Gul Dukat: In fact, I'm going to go get ready to do that RIGHT AWAY.
Sisko: Wait
Gul Dukat: Thank you for the push, Benjamin. See you in the season finale when I kill Jadzia!
Sisko: Shoot.

Way to go, Emissary.


Who Mourns for Morn may not be a Ferengi episode but it's a Quark episode so that's good enough to me to just forget that other upcoming episode doesn't exist (Right? ha ha). But basically everyone's favorite secondary charac... tertiary characte... uh... piece of background decoration, Morn, was killed in an accident and he left everything to Quark.

Also he may or may not have been a secret billionaire, or a prince, or the most wanted thief in the quadrant, or something. Minor detail. Four nefarious types come out of the woodwork to threaten Quark and he has to duck all of them and also he learns that Morn had a stash of 1000 bricks of Gold Pressed Latinum hidden away so it becomes kind of a treasure hunt except they never leave the station and the dough is just kind of shipped to them and then it all falls apart exactly as you would expect when everyone betrays each other but then it turns out the Latinum was fake and Morn faked his death to get those punks off his back and then he barfs up some Latinum to pay Quark for his troubles.

Really my favorite line in that episode was Worf commenting on how Morn was his sparring partner. We never actually see Morn do anything in the entire series and yet he leads the most interesting life in DS9.
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  #8575  
Old 10-29-2016, 01:00 PM
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I may be biased against Star Trek for personal reasons, but what is the big attraction to the series for people in this thread?
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  #8576  
Old 10-29-2016, 01:17 PM
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The basic premise lends itself well to telling all kinds of different stories with a static cast of (generally) likeable characters, and, while there are exceptions, the series manages to be more optimistic than just about any other show on TV.
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  #8577  
Old 10-29-2016, 04:17 PM
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Far Beyond the Stars is a damn good episode, and it has one scene with Avery Brooks at his Avery Brooksiest. (it is rrrrrreeeeeaaaal) Just a great watch, and probably one the best episodes in DS9.

And it is surreal as hell to see some of these actors without their makeup. The episode is fun just for that alone.
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  #8578  
Old 10-29-2016, 05:45 PM
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I may be biased against Star Trek for personal reasons, but what is the big attraction to the series for people in this thread?
I started watching as a kid. For me, it seamlessly filled the Sesame Street void as I grew out of that and needed something still instructional and educational but not for literal babies. It stoked my imagination as a kid and also helped form a lot of the basis for the formation of my world view and sense of morality growing up. It was just fascinating/thought provoking stuff as a kid, and it represented an extremely appealing and forward thinking view of what the world could be if we set aside our differences and worked towards bettering ourselves and humanity.

And as I've gotten older, I've found instead of like everything else from my childhood that's not as good as I remember, Star Trek has actually gotten better. I pick up on things I missed as a child, it's speaks to me differently now as an adult and is still relevant all these years later, and it's even more impressive to me in today's bleak and cynical media landscape to see a show that's still filled with unbridled optimism and inspiration.

I could probably write a whole graduate thesis about why Star Trek is my favorite media-thing ever, but that's the general gist of it.
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  #8579  
Old 10-29-2016, 06:34 PM
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It doesn't hurt that the best series have excellent casting - Deep Space Nine in particular has probably the best ensemble in any television sci-fi show - and the actors tend to actually be engaged with the material. Star Trek is extremely earnest, and the potential of taking a hard turn into the embarrassing looms large over it. Yet the actors lean into their performances, and as often as not elevate the material.
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  #8580  
Old 10-29-2016, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoonyBardOL View Post
Far Beyond the Stars is a damn good episode, and it has one scene with Avery Brooks at his Avery Brooksiest. (it is rrrrrreeeeeaaaal) Just a great watch, and probably one the best episodes in DS9.

And it is surreal as hell to see some of these actors without their makeup. The episode is fun just for that alone.
DS9 - tackling race and gender in the mid-90s in a way that would never get on TV today.
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