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  #31  
Old 05-02-2008, 10:24 AM
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(I'm in the comic nerd minority in thinking he's badass and not a douche),
I was, too, until Millar explicitly made him a douche with no room for interpretation.

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Suprisingly and not, he did the same here, but it felt like this was the part he was meant to do.
Tony Stark really was Robert Downey about 20 years earlier.
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  #32  
Old 05-02-2008, 10:43 AM
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Tony Stark really was Robert Downey about 20 years earlier.
Yeah, when I heard the casting I thought it was perfect.
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  #33  
Old 05-02-2008, 01:11 PM
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Very good. So glad I read this thread before I went, so I knew to stick around.

I'm not a comics guy at all (superhero or otherwise), but Iron Man always seemed pretty badass, and I like Tony Stark and his many, many flaws.

The movie's really great fun, go see it even if you're not a comics person.

And dammit, every time I see one of these movies, I have this urge to renew my City of Heroes/Villains subscription.. and every time I do, I regret it. =/ Urgh...
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  #34  
Old 05-02-2008, 04:57 PM
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I think the effects really sold me.

There's just something about that incredibly sexy gold and red suit.

Damn I want to be Iron Man.

Anyway, I felt this movie was well-worth my $3.50; I'll definitely be getting the dvd.
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  #35  
Old 05-02-2008, 05:12 PM
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I think I may have to wait for the DVD on this one. I tried to go earlier today and couldn't make it out of the driveway.
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  #36  
Old 05-02-2008, 06:02 PM
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They did it! They finally made a comic book movie where the hero is funny throughout the movie! This is what I really missed in the Spider-man movies, kudos to Iron Man for picking up the slack.

I have no idea how they're going to pull off what is suggested in the post-credits scene, though. It's pretty awesome, but it also could be a total train wreck.
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  #37  
Old 05-02-2008, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Crested Penguin View Post
They did it! They finally made a comic book movie where the hero is funny throughout the movie! This is what I really missed in the Spider-man movies, kudos to Iron Man for picking up the slack.

I have no idea how they're going to pull off what is suggested in the post-credits scene, though. It's pretty awesome, but it also could be a total train wreck.
I don't think they'll move ahead with that project until they put out a few more solo hero movies. Captain America etc.
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  #38  
Old 05-02-2008, 10:00 PM
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I have no idea how they're going to pull off what is suggested in the post-credits scene, though. It's pretty awesome, but it also could be a total train wreck.
Easy enough I'd say-only comic fans really know what's going on with that dialog, and it's not like the entire operation is just putting some guys in spandex. Next movie make a passing comment about government's Avengers Initiative providing funding for suit development, blah blah blah....

I'm not so sure an Avengers flick will happen-it'd have to be within a few years really and since Thor, AntMan, and Cap are all in different stages of development hell and each carrying it's own flavor of "really? you want a big budget for this?" to it says it's unlikely. Of the bunch, I think Cap is the only one with any legs.

Never was much of an AntMan fan....just seems a little too silly, and a Norse god? Nah....I quite like the Ultimates Thor and that's what I'd love to see not as a solo movie but just a minor character in an Avengers flick.
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  #39  
Old 05-02-2008, 10:27 PM
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Whoo-ee, lotsa spoilers here. Since it only opened today in the US, I'll white it out.

Related to the final, post-credits scene:

I'm really looking forward to seeing how they'd "update" Cap'n America's origin. That is, if they update it at all --I can easily see them staying true to the made-during-WWII, frozen-for-sixty-years storyline, and letting the movie's focus shift to Cap readapting to modern America and its modern enemies.

On the other hand, the other fundamental staple of the Avengers, Thor, is one of the most fantastical superheroes in the Marvel Universe. Spidey, the F4, Hulk, DD, and the X-Men are easily explainable through pseudo-science mutations; Iron Man and Cap, through hyper sci-fi. These are somewhat neutral concepts which almost any audience can buy without issue. But bring in Thor, and all of a sudden you're introducing gods and whole pantheons which might rub some people the wrong way (in a "suspension of disbelief" way, not necessarily a "religious" manner.)

Then again, I haven't really followed the Avengers past the ancient "still-frame" cartoons. I hear that the Ultimate universe tries to adhere more to a modern interpretation of the MU. How does Thor's more mythological aspects work in that?


As to the movie itself:

Having let a day go by after watching the movie, I've let the gee-whiz high die down a bit and reexamined my thoughts on it. While I still think it's a heated contest for the top 3 comic-based movies, and it's still a day-one purchase on DVD or Blu-Ray, I think my major gripe with it is that there's far too much "origin," and far too little "hero" in it. There's only one actual mission to protect the innocent, and the final duel was more like an internal spat between Stark executives than an actual Good Vs. Evil throwdown (all those people on the highway have more than enough reason to toss a couple dozen civil lawsuits at Stark Enterprises. ) Contrast this with Spidey 1, where the origin was dealt with swiftly and we had plenty of time to see him grow into the heroic role: the "you mess with one, you mess with all of us" scene, as cornball as it was, felt honest and real, whereas Iron Man didn't really do anything to earn the superhero status that Tony thought he had gotten.

That said, I still love the movie, I just feel I need to watch it from a different perspective than that from which I watch other superhero movies. I think it's much more about Stark becoming Iron Man, and his personal redemption, than about him becoming a hero to the world at large. Maybe if I walk into the movie with that perspective, I'll like it even more.

Oh! And did anyone else think "Zero Suit!" during the suit-up scene, when he officially donned the final design for its first mission? My mind immediately flashed to Samus' Power Suit in that sequence.
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  #40  
Old 05-02-2008, 10:28 PM
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Seeing as how they got Sam Jackson to play Nick Fury, it's obvious a direction like The Ultimates has been considered. Also, there's that one rumor how Jackson as Fury is also supposed to make an appearance in the Incredible Hulk. As for more solo movies, I say skip 'em! The Avengers find Cap, so he's tied to them...but I guess that'd be an amazing end to a WWII style movie, waking up in the present... and if they go with the direction of Ultimate Thor (I really hope they do), he's got that ambiguous origin thing going...

This is too much comic book talk for me. But Saturday is Free Comic Book day, so I guess that's a'ight.
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  #41  
Old 05-03-2008, 02:25 AM
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About that Avengers Initiative. Remember that Hulk was part of the original Avengers. They'll probably add him into this new Avengers team as well. Don't assume it'll be 100 % based on Ultimates.
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  #42  
Old 05-03-2008, 06:00 AM
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It was a good film and certainly worth the admission, but not awe-inspiring like Spiderman 1 & 2. There were definitely some very cool scenes, like the fighter flight, design and building of the v.2 armor and everything having to do with Stark's fancy computer interfaces, and in the end, the scene building up to "I am Iron Man." Seems like they're really building up and saving up for the sequel (as well as whatever comes from the things discussed above). It's very much an introductory movie where they're holding out on the Iron Man goodness to establish characters and develop them. However, the break from the constant fighting of superhero movies is refreshing as well, and the character interactions are handled really well and in an interesting way - with the exception of the baddie, who was just an excuse to kick any and all dogs available, and to provide a somewhat underwhelming big fight at the end of the movie. Whatever motivations the antagonist might have had, they were completely undermined by the baffling and unfounded actions forced upon the character to bring some sense of conclusion to the movie.
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  #43  
Old 05-03-2008, 07:34 AM
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If there's one character that really needs a canon immigrant, it's Iron Man. I hope they invent a really good villain for him out of whole cloth so they can give it to him in the comics.

Meanwhile, Batman fuckin' invented canon immigrants and how many really awesome villains does he have?
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  #44  
Old 05-03-2008, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Merus View Post
If there's one character that really needs a canon immigrant, it's Iron Man. I hope they invent a really good villain for him out of whole cloth so they can give it to him in the comics.

Meanwhile, Batman fuckin' invented canon immigrants and how many really awesome villains does he have?
Iron Man's (second-)best antagonist actually IS one - Doctor Doom. Sure, he's an FF villain, but he works SOOOOO much better as the opposite to Stark. Magic vs. Science, Western Capitalism vs Eastern Monarchy, good ol' American freedom vs tyranny... it's amazing that no one came up with the idea until both characters had been around for 10 years or so.

Of course, Doom got stuck in the FF movies, so he'd need to be a salvage job.

(The Mandarin is a bit of the same thing, and probably better movie villain because of the FX potential in the rings, but Doom's a much better thematic match. Sort of how Luthor almost works better as a Batman villain than a Superman one)

Of course, the best Iron Man antagonist is the alcoholism, which is supposed to be the focus of the second movie. It'll probably wind up being way too introspective and dark for the audience looking for a beat 'em up, but I'll sure as hell like it.
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  #45  
Old 05-03-2008, 01:17 PM
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Just saw this, thought it was really good, definitely one of the best comic book movies to come out of this recent run of them, perhaps ever (I mean there's not a lot pre-dating the recent run but still). Downey was great, the writing was spot-on, etc.

Now, I know the difficulty of trying to surprise an audience with decades-old source material, but could they at least not make the villain bald with a big bushy villain beard? Literally the very second I saw his still image in that presentation I knew he was the bad guy, and I say this as someone who had absolutely no clue who Obadiah Stane was going into the movie. I mean, they could try is all I'm saying. In fact, I'm gona go ahead and say that "anything involving Stane's character" was the weakest part of the film by far. Otherwise we've got Stark's personal conflicts which, as we learned from Spider-man 2, are far more interesting. In fact, this is the exact same problem that we had in S-M2 - the parts of the movie concerning the villain just sucked.

Because of that, the last 30 minutes "typical hero/villain rar comic book conflict resolution" was less jarring to me but no less lame, especially when the actual fight started. And the comic book pseudoscience took a turn for the especially bad right then. Optical sensor cables conveniently located on the back exterior of this gigantic hunk of metal? Reactor Explosions only shooting straight up into the sky? That's almost as bad as extinguishing a nuclear fusion reaction in the Hudson River. And yeah, I could have seen more of Iron Man in action, but it's more important to have well-developed characters and a good story than it is to get explosions and fighting.
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  #46  
Old 05-03-2008, 01:36 PM
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Actually, if the reactor mainly produced pure electrical energy it probably would just go straight up into the sky, as would any hydrogen powered explosion. This doesn't discount comic physics at all, but not every kind of "explosion" is really an explosion or in the shape of a giant ball of fire. That's Hollywood physics, mostly.
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  #47  
Old 05-03-2008, 01:42 PM
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Also, what was up with him revealing his identity at the end? With hints of continuity creeping into movies (Avengers), might that also be a hint at what became his role in Civil War? God I hope not. Did like that scene though.
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  #48  
Old 05-03-2008, 02:00 PM
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Also, what was up with...
That was my second thought. My first though was that it was him a) flipping the bird at the concept of hiding behind alibis and spin doctors, b) facing responsibility head-on (the whole "accountability" subthread that the reporter was beating him over the head with) and c) hells yeah he's Iron Man and he LOVES it. At least, I hope that's what the filmmakers went for. The alternative (Civil War) would be too stupid to contemplate.

I liked how the Mandarin got a nod in the shape of the "Ten Rings" organization. As for the alcoholism being the focus of the sequel, I thought he was over that? I definitely don't remember him drinking at all after getting back to the States.
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  #49  
Old 05-03-2008, 02:20 PM
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I am really surprised that no one else has mentioned that the final fight was similar to Metal Gear Solid, in that the hero disables the villain's optical functions so that he has to open the suit and become vulnerable. It was just kinda cool, is all.
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  #50  
Old 05-03-2008, 05:07 PM
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I hear that the Ultimate universe tries to adhere more to a modern interpretation of the MU. How does Thor's more mythological aspects work in that?
Maybe it's been revealed since I haven't caught up, but last I knew in the Ultimate universe, his power came from the chestpiece, which was a human invention. The guy just happened to be nuts and convinced he was Thor. Something along those lines. Important thing being, not ACTUALLY Thor.

I'd think the Cap story of being frozen and found by SHIELD has plenty of merit still.
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  #51  
Old 05-03-2008, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Scud View Post
Maybe it's been revealed since I haven't caught up, but last I knew in the Ultimate universe, his power came from the chestpiece, which was a human invention. The guy just happened to be nuts and convinced he was Thor. Something along those lines. Important thing being, not ACTUALLY Thor.

I'd think the Cap story of being frozen and found by SHIELD has plenty of merit still.
Yeah, except Ultimate Thor IS really a god.
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  #52  
Old 05-03-2008, 07:38 PM
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Saw it.

Loved it.

I don't know jack squat about the comics version of the Iron man character, but the movie character is awesome.
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  #53  
Old 05-03-2008, 08:10 PM
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That was my first though too, Zef, and that's definitely how Downey's performance brings it across in the movie. It's just with all the other movies/tie-ins they're talking about, I panicked a little on reflection.

I thought the thing with Ultimate Thor was that everyone thought he was batshit until they saw him summoning some ghosts or spirits from Asgard and were like Oh Shit, he really is a god.
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  #54  
Old 05-03-2008, 08:33 PM
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Best part of the movie: when I realized what "Strategic Homeland Intervention, Engagement and Logistics Division" stood for and my brain started to geek itself out, just as my dad was leaning over to ask "What does that stand for? 'Shithead'?"
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  #55  
Old 05-03-2008, 09:46 PM
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Best part of the movie: when I realized what "Strategic Homeland Intervention, Engagement and Logistics Division" stood for and my brain started to geek itself out, just as my dad was leaning over to ask "What does that stand for? 'Shithead'?"
Your dad made that part. I won't be able to watch that without giggling now.
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  #56  
Old 05-03-2008, 10:27 PM
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I thought it was pretty darn good. Robert Downey Jr. was fantastic, I like him more each time I see him. The scene where Iron Man beat up the terrorists was great. Bridges was good too, but his part got pretty cheesy as it went on and especially in the end.

Fifth best modern Superhero movie after the first two Spider-Men, X-2, and Batman Begins.

I'm really getting tired of the Stan Lee cameos. They get more pointless each time.
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  #57  
Old 05-03-2008, 10:48 PM
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saw it. loved it.
best supers movie since x-2. way better than any spiderman, super man, or batman.
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  #58  
Old 05-03-2008, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Adrenaline View Post
I thought it was pretty darn good. Robert Downey Jr. was fantastic, I like him more each time I see him. The scene where Iron Man does stuff was great. Bridges was good too, but his part got pretty cheesy as it went on and especially in the end.

Fifth best modern Superhero movie after the first two Spider-Men, X-2, and Batman Begins.

I'm really getting tired of the Stan Lee cameos. They get more pointless each time.
That scene might've looked nice, but raises some big questions regarding the legality of the events (which could extend to real life, if one were so inclined) and their accountability, especially when we consider the ending sequence.
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  #59  
Old 05-03-2008, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by juanfrugalj View Post
That scene might've looked nice, but raises some big questions regarding the legality of the events (which could extend to real life, if one were so inclined) and their accountability, especially when we consider the ending sequence.
He's rich with military contracts, though, so he can effectively do anything he wants. He could snap a baby in half and throw it at a widow and he'd get away with it.

Oh, and I saw it today (despite my expectations that I would have to wait). Awesome stuff.
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  #60  
Old 05-03-2008, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by juanfrugalj View Post
That scene might've looked nice, but raises some big questions regarding the legality of the events (which could extend to real life, if one were so inclined) and their accountability, especially when we consider the ending sequence.
You know, it's thoughts like that that lead to crap like Civil War.*

I too, saw it and enjoyed it. I like this version of Tony Stark compared to the current MU version or the lame Ultimate version.


*I am, in no way, saying you can't think that way. I'm just saying let it go and don't over-think it too much
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