The Return of Talking Time

Go Back   The Return of Talking Time > Talking about media > Talking about TV and film

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-05-2009, 05:43 PM
Peach's Avatar
Peach Peach is offline
Remembers Love
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Fargo and Gamoorhead
Posts: 3,145
Default Help Me Gundam.

So I watched the third Mobile Suit Gundam movie again yesterday evening. It's nice, after two jumpy, thoroughly compromised messes, to watch a film that presents something like a coherent, dramatically-sound narrative, excusing, of course, some occasionally goofy dialogue. The point of this post isn't to take shots at a quarter-century-vintage highlight reels though. I'm now equipped to revisit the Gundam metaseries. It's just that I'd like some assistance charting a course through its, er, treacherous waters.

At various points, I've watched the entirety of Gundam Wing, The 08th MS Team, War in the Pocket, and Char's Counterattack, though nearly all of those in the distant past. I've spent enough time on /m/ to understand how grave an omission it is that that list features neither Turn A Gundam nor Zeta Gundam. I'll undoubtedly get to those sooner than later, but besides that pair of 800-pound gorillas, everything is fair game.

What are the merits and flaws of the various series, heedless of vintage, universe, or their status as 'canon'? Could it be that the OVAs are better than the main event, or do they serve as little more than showcases for mecha porn and the effects of staff changes? What about the manga? I've heard people swear by Crossbone Gundam, and perhaps Gundam: The Origin serves as a better vehicles for the original series' story than the compilation films.

Guys, let's talk about Gundam.

Last edited by Peach; 07-05-2009 at 06:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-05-2009, 05:53 PM
Dizzy Dizzy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 27,309
Default

I find your thread title offensive to Italians!

Ahem. Anyways. As someone with very little experience or knowledge with Gundam except what gets flown overseas, I like The 08th MS Team very much. I loathe G Gundam though. Sorry, fans.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-05-2009, 10:37 PM
Torgo's Avatar
Torgo Torgo is offline
We Hardly Knew Ye
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Valley Isle
Posts: 9,718
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
As someone with very little experience or knowledge with Gundam except what gets flown overseas, I like The 08th MS Team very much.
This right here. 08th MS Team is fantastic.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-05-2009, 11:36 PM
mr_bungle700 mr_bungle700 is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 8,756
Default

The climactic battle in episode 10 of 08th MS Team is approximately one billion times better, in every conceivable way, than any action scene in a recent movie about giant robots that I will avoid naming. It not only has great choreography, but it also has a significant amount of plot and character weight behind it. Plus, the final outcome is something that a certain director who I will avoid naming could never have the maturity and thoughtfulness to conceive of.

That sequence is one of my top candidates for the title of Greatest Giant Robot Fight of All Time.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-05-2009, 11:44 PM
Torgo's Avatar
Torgo Torgo is offline
We Hardly Knew Ye
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Valley Isle
Posts: 9,718
Default

Can someone tell me weather or not Gundam Wing is truly the pile of crap I've always taken it to be? I've never really gotten an impression on what its place is among the fandom at large. Like a lot of tender young nerds, it was my first exposure to Gundam, and I mostly hated it. It's been nearly ten years and I don't really have a clear vision of it any more other than angsty, god-moding pretty boys and dull monologue-ing.

And Just Communication. And White Reflection.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-05-2009, 11:49 PM
teekun's Avatar
teekun teekun is offline
heh
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,105
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torgo View Post
Can someone tell me weather or not Gundam Wing is truly the pile of crap I've always taken it to be? I've never really gotten an impression on what its place is among the fandom at large. Like a lot of tender young nerds, it was my first exposure to Gundam, and I mostly hated it. It's been nearly ten years and I don't really have a clear vision of it any more other than angsty, god-moding pretty boys and dull monologue-ing.

And Just Communication. And White Reflection.
I absolutely despise Gundam Wing and cannot for the life of me explain why it has such a large, rabid fan-base.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-06-2009, 12:10 AM
MarsDragon's Avatar
MarsDragon MarsDragon is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 991
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torgo View Post
Can someone tell me weather or not Gundam Wing is truly the pile of crap I've always taken it to be? I've never really gotten an impression on what its place is among the fandom at large. Like a lot of tender young nerds, it was my first exposure to Gundam, and I mostly hated it. It's been nearly ten years and I don't really have a clear vision of it any more other than angsty, god-moding pretty boys and dull monologue-ing.

And Just Communication. And White Reflection.
Just go watch a couple of episodes The hivemind is not going to help you get a good, un-biased look at the series.

...that said, this part of the hivemind really likes Turn-A and G Gundam for entirely different reasons. Turn-A is Gundam where they stripped out most of the action and concentrated on the characters and it's great; G is Gundam where they stripped out most of the characters and message and concentrated on awesome robot action and it's great.

Crossbone is also excellent, with the usual UC mix of characters and action. Also features a likable protagonist, which is sort of rare for Gundam. And I have to throw in another vote for X, which features another likable protagonist, though I haven't finished watching it yet. 0083 is worth watching because yay gorgeous animation and Dendrobium, but that's about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sven
SEED is slow to start, but gets really freaking great from about episode 30 (or whenever the Alaska arc starts) onward. The last couple of episodes are a bit "and then X dies, and then Y dies", but they accomplish the rare-for-anime feat of actually making you give a damn about most of the supporting characters before wiping them out wholesale. They also take some of the focus off the sterotypically troubled teen hero and put it on adult characters, which is refreshing to anyone who isn't a 14-year-old Japanese girl.
This is the exact opposite of every single thing I have ever heard about SEED, and the exact opposite of what I've seen of it through SRW.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-05-2009, 11:52 PM
Dizzy Dizzy is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 27,309
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_bungle700 View Post
The climactic battle in episode 10 of 08th MS Team is approximately one billion times better, in every conceivable way, than any action scene in a recent movie about giant robots that I will avoid naming.
I can't remember but was that the one where the old grunt everyone thought wasn't skilled turned out to be very skilled and stealthily took out an entire platoon? Memory is vague here.

(He caused the enemy combatants to sweat and say, "This guy is an ace!" I think.)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-06-2009, 02:37 AM
SpoonyGundam's Avatar
SpoonyGundam SpoonyGundam is online now
The Great
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,279
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_bungle700 View Post
The climactic battle in episode 10 of 08th MS Team is approximately one billion times better, in every conceivable way, than any action scene in a recent movie about giant robots that I will avoid naming. It not only has great choreography, but it also has a significant amount of plot and character weight behind it. Plus, the final outcome is something that a certain director who I will avoid naming could never have the maturity and thoughtfulness to conceive of.

That sequence is one of my top candidates for the title of Greatest Giant Robot Fight of All Time.
Yes, this. It's pretty much the high point of the entire franchise to me.

08th MS Team and G Gundam are my favorites, but basically for completely different reasons. If you don't think it's hilarious that Mexico's space colony in G Gundam is shaped like a giant sombrero, then the series is probably not for you.

Turn A Gundam is just behind those two as far as my favorites go. It starts out kind of slow, but Loran is generally a pretty likeable dude and Harry Ord is the best Char since Char.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-06-2009, 02:48 AM
Torgo's Avatar
Torgo Torgo is offline
We Hardly Knew Ye
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Valley Isle
Posts: 9,718
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoonyGundam View Post
If you don't think it's hilarious that Mexico's space colony in G Gundam is shaped like a giant sombrero, then the series is probably not for you.
From the sounds of it I think G Gundam was made just for me.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-06-2009, 02:51 AM
`Hrist's Avatar
`Hrist `Hrist is offline
TT Pokemon Champion
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Japan
Posts: 4,399
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoonyGundam View Post
Yes, this. It's pretty much the high point of the entire franchise to me.
I'll second that. Thinking on it, I really can't think of a better fight in any of the Gundams that I've seen. Maybe Kamille vs. Scirocco, which is pretty lofty company in my estimation.

The best part about that fight is that Norris' domination feels completely plausible. He has good tactics, moves around well, and puts on a clinic against the good guys. It takes Shiro being equally brilliant to finally bring him down, and even then Norris basically wins in the end. Just excellent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoonyGundam View Post
Turn A Gundam is just behind those two as far as my favorites go. It starts out kind of slow, but Loran is generally a pretty likeable dude and Harry Ord is the best Char since Char.
Been meaning to watch Turn A, if only because it's the "distant finale." I liked what I've seen in SRZ Alpha Gaiden and SRW Z quite a lot. Harry Ord's sunglasses are silly though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoonyGundam View Post
If you don't think it's hilarious that Mexico's space colony in G Gundam is shaped like a giant sombrero, then the series is probably not for you.
It's a well done super robot anime, from what I've seen. Lots of over-the-top, fun attacks. That's why it's so great in SRW. Funny, my favorite thing having to do with G Gundam was not even in the series:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4qb2...eature=related

I think this fight makes both Wing and G look good. Seriously, lol.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-05-2009, 05:53 PM
teekun's Avatar
teekun teekun is offline
heh
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 8,105
Default

I'm no Gundam expert, but I have to say that watching Char's Counterattack before seeing Zeta is a horrible travesty that needs to be corrected as quickly as possible.

Also never ever ever ever ever try to watch ZZ.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-05-2009, 06:10 PM
Badinage's Avatar
Badinage Badinage is offline
ILU Tiger Millionaire
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 722
Default

I really do want to see the first, original series. Unfortunately, the DVDs seem hard to find and apparently the U.S. DVDs of the abridged movies have been discontinued. I remember being told that the movies work well in summing it up. Either way, I kind of wish I could find either the movies or the DVDs of the series.

Which of the other Gundam series are really good to see? 08th MS Team, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-05-2009, 06:25 PM
Traumadore's Avatar
Traumadore Traumadore is offline
An Animal of Joy
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 7,912
Default

I have them on VHS! My Mom got them for me back in like ninth grade when I actually wanted Gundam Wing. I really enjoyed the original gundam universe alot more though. It was so much more human, and the more vintage robots were just cool. I have a little 2 inch tall Zaku and Gelgoog on my computer right now.

Now I have no interest in the alternate universe series' however. They seem so much more gawdy and flippant than the original universe.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-06-2009, 08:08 PM
John's Avatar
John John is offline
hidden in snow
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 2,894
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggumbeard View Post
I really do want to see the first, original series. Unfortunately, the DVDs seem hard to find and apparently the U.S. DVDs of the abridged movies have been discontinued. I remember being told that the movies work well in summing it up. Either way, I kind of wish I could find either the movies or the DVDs of the series.
I believe I've got the whole original series on DVD (and region 1 releases, not some bootleg from Taiwan) as well as a bunch of other Gundam and various anime from my earlier years. Pretty sure I had 08th MS Team, Char's Counterattack, half of Wing, some other stuff. I'd be willing to part with them for very cheap, like the price of shipping and maybe some extra dollars. I paid full retail price back then, but time has healed those wounds.

Let me check some boxes, and I'll make a post in the Buy/Sell/Trade thread. The stuff's been under my stairs for years, might as well get rid of it.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-05-2009, 06:26 PM
Josh_AnimeBum's Avatar
Josh_AnimeBum Josh_AnimeBum is offline
Semi-Lurker
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bob's Country Bunker
Posts: 585
Default

It's funny you should post a Gundam thread today, since I just popped in 0080 to rewatch while eating dinner.

You have a few options when it comes to checking out UC Gundam. Some people like to go in chronological order of release or by timeline. Either one works fine, since you have seen the movies (which are considered canon unlike the TV series) you can pretty much go to 08th MS Team, 0080, or MS IGLOO, 0083, or Zeta. All of them are worth checking out (although I cannot vouch for IGLOO)

Turn A can be watched pretty much anytime since it is not strictly UC. I haven't seen it myself either.

I did however once read Tomino's Gundam novels several years ago, however finding those reasonably priced is not very likely. They make a significant number of changes from the original (including everyone being recruits, an actual sexual relationship between Amuro and Sayla, Amuro's death followed by Char joining with the White Base crew as a pilot of another gundam. They weren't great, but definitely an interesting read as a sort of "what if" written by the creator of the series.

And since someone brought up Gundam, has anyone heard anything about a potential Hi-Def release of the original movies with the original mono soundtrack? I only have the trilogy on VHS since I refuse to buy the current US DVD one with the changed sound effects/music and would love to upgrade (with subtitles) even if it cost me Japanese prices.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-05-2009, 06:45 PM
Sven's Avatar
Sven Sven is offline
For Great Apollo Justice
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 21,019
Default

SEED is slow to start, but gets really freaking great from about episode 30 (or whenever the Alaska arc starts) onward. The last couple of episodes are a bit "and then X dies, and then Y dies", but they accomplish the rare-for-anime feat of actually making you give a damn about most of the supporting characters before wiping them out wholesale. They also take some of the focus off the sterotypically troubled teen hero and put it on adult characters, which is refreshing to anyone who isn't a 14-year-old Japanese girl.

Oh, and unlike so many other Gundam series, it got the psychology right: the good guys are almost always overwhelmed and fighting against difficult, if not impossible odds. This isn't a series like Wing or 00 where there's wholesale slaughter of overmatched mooks by the good guys to the delighted shrieks of killcount-obsessed fanboys. Because of the setup - which I'm not going to spoil - every fight is more about survival than the norm for Gundam, particularly in the first half of the series.

Plus, it's basically original Gundam mixed with Macross. Now that all the whiny "oh, they're just retelling the original series" reception from the hardcore fans is long past, it's aged very well (especially the soundtrack, which has a very John Williams-y, timeless feel to it).

Sadly, the same can't be said for its sequel, SEED Destiny, which was a haphazard attempt to continue a storyline BEFORE they abruptly came to the realisation that no one liked their new lead characters 13 episodes in.

Last edited by Sven; 07-05-2009 at 10:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-05-2009, 08:21 PM
Posaune's Avatar
Posaune Posaune is offline
What Time Is It?
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,664
Default

I absolutely loved G Gundam, but it's not really Gundam.

It seems like you've already hit most of the UC Gundam stuff, too.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-05-2009, 08:29 PM
Figure Four's Avatar
Figure Four Figure Four is offline
This is what happens!
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 844
Default

I'd like to recommend the forgotten Gundam series, After War Gundam X. It's got a good story, some kick ass mechs, and even though it's run was cut short they still managed to have a decent ending.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-12-2009, 03:20 PM
Master-J's Avatar
Master-J Master-J is offline
100% camo in tall grass
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: University of Puget Sound
Posts: 294
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Posaune View Post
I absolutely loved G Gundam, but it's not really Gundam.
Until I started watching it again yesterday, I'd forgotten how much insanity they condense into each episode. I love it.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 02-03-2010, 03:48 PM
DiGiKerot's Avatar
DiGiKerot DiGiKerot is offline
You wanna contract, Boss?
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 486
Default

Just a heads up for anyone wanting to watch some Gundam - in the lead up to the release of Gundam Unicorn, Bandai are making selected Gundam shows available to watch in the US and parts of Europe via a number of different streaming sites for a limited period of time.

The immediately important ones are that you can watch dubbed First Gundam on Crunchyroll and subtitled Zeta Gundam on ANN from now up until April 22.

The rest of the schedule can be seen here.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 02-03-2010, 03:53 PM
Alixsar's Avatar
Alixsar Alixsar is offline
The Shogun of Harlem
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Harlem
Posts: 23,644
Default

That's awesome as hell. Even if you don't like Gundam, that's just a swell thing for a company to do.

Incidentally, I didn't know they finally made Unicorn into a show. That's overdue.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 02-03-2010, 03:54 PM
Calorie Mate's Avatar
Calorie Mate Calorie Mate is offline
A No.1
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: East
Posts: 20,174
Default

"Gundam Unicorn"?
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-03-2010, 03:58 PM
`Hrist's Avatar
`Hrist `Hrist is offline
TT Pokemon Champion
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Japan
Posts: 4,399
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calorie Mate View Post
"Gundam Unicorn"?
Shuttup it's awesome.

And my blu-ray is so pre-ordered.

Talking Time viewing party!?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 02-03-2010, 04:00 PM
Alixsar's Avatar
Alixsar Alixsar is offline
The Shogun of Harlem
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Harlem
Posts: 23,644
Default

It's not as bad as "Crossbone Gundam".
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-03-2010, 04:01 PM
Calorie Mate's Avatar
Calorie Mate Calorie Mate is offline
A No.1
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: East
Posts: 20,174
Default

No, I really think it is.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-10-2010, 11:58 AM
DiGiKerot's Avatar
DiGiKerot DiGiKerot is offline
You wanna contract, Boss?
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 486
Default

So, hey, apparently Bandai Ent. have finally managed to get clearance from Japan to release Subtitled First Gundam TV on DVD.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-10-2010, 03:22 PM
`Hrist's Avatar
`Hrist `Hrist is offline
TT Pokemon Champion
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Japan
Posts: 4,399
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiGiKerot View Post
So, hey, apparently Bandai Ent. have finally managed to get clearance from Japan to release Subtitled First Gundam TV on DVD.
Still waiting on Gundam X and Victory.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 10-22-2010, 05:13 PM
Egarwaen's Avatar
Egarwaen Egarwaen is offline
Inherently Stealthy
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sebastopol, CA
Posts: 13,858
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by `Hrist View Post
Still waiting on Gundam X and Victory.
And Turn A. And I'd like ZZ, just for the sake of completeness.

Also, I've finally gotten to 00 Gundam S2 in my Netflix queue. I'd forgotten just how over-the-top and awesome it was. It's like they went "You know what? Fuck it. TURN EVERYTHING TO 11!!!"

The episode where they rescue Allelujah and Princess Armcandy from the prison is possibly the best episode in the entire series.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 10-24-2010, 11:10 AM
Excitemike's Avatar
Excitemike Excitemike is offline
Space Prez
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,893
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiGiKerot View Post
So, hey, apparently Bandai Ent. have finally managed to get clearance from Japan to release Subtitled First Gundam TV on DVD.
Hey, that's pretty neat.

Remember the anime about teens who build gundam models and then battle with them? As a fan, I have never felt so serviced.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
ウエアブー , anime , anime ja nai , animeanimeanimeanimeanime , doozy bots , gundam , irritable bowel orphans , toy commercials , zeig zeon

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Your posts ©you, 2007