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  #61  
Old 09-19-2018, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Meditative_Zebra View Post
I don't think this is for me but the continuing popularity of these retro mini consoles gets me hopeful that there will be a mini Saturn. That's a device I would be excited for!
That would be great, but Iím betting ease of emulation would be the barrier here. I havenít been in the emulation scene for a while now, but last I checked the Saturn was notoriously hard to emulate and lacked the fan base to put in the effort to make it work. These devices are only made possible because theyíre easy to make and cost their company almost nothing, so itís pure profits. A mini Saturn would probably demand a bunch of R&D on Segaís part to develop a good Saturn emulator, which theyíd be very unlikely to do. Itís kind of the reason I suspect the PS2 classics died out - they probably had to tailor the emulation on a game by game basis and it costed too much. Sure would be nice though.
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  #62  
Old 09-19-2018, 04:15 PM
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Don't you have a Vita?
...what the hell is a Vita?!
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  #63  
Old 09-19-2018, 04:18 PM
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The flipside to this and related devices is that in service of presenting a curated, tiny fraction of a system's library, they promote a sort of "canonized greats" perception and interaction with the system they're supposed to represent. Games people know, games people have played, games that have sold well previously. There's no room for anything new to be discovered through a fresh context, and it's even more highlighted here than with the NES and SNES minis because of how vast, experimental and diverse the PlayStation library was
That is a very good point that I am agreeing with even more than usual as I fall deeper in love with Alundra 2.

Consensus opinions need to be questioned and overthrown sometimes, and I feel like the highest value of revisiting old consoles in any form is to try the many gems that slipped between the cracks into obscurity, or were misunderstood and underappreciated when they were new. Instead, companies seem more excited to just offer people a chance to play things they already played, which seems so backwards, even though yeah, clearly there's a market for it, so I get it, it just...feels like a waste! And seems kinda counter-intuitive!

The older I get, the less 'nostalgia' I yearn for...I ended up barely playing my SNES Classic until it had the likes of Eternal Filena slammed into its husk. I still think plenty of my old favorites are great, and love 'em, but any time I spent playing them on the SNES Classic felt kinda hollow. It really drove home how much more interested I was in discovering new favorites instead of revisiting old ones.

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Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
Itís kind of the reason I suspect the PS2 classics died out - they probably had to tailor the emulation on a game by game basis and it costed too much. Sure would be nice though.
I played Digital Devil Saga's downloadable version on the PS3, and its emulation had massive, glaring issues, with every cutscene's audio having PROBLEMS
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  #64  
Old 09-19-2018, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Peklo View Post
That said, I do think it's illuminating to witness the generational effect mold the reactions to this versus how the NES and SNES minis were received and talked about.
What have you noticed? I haven't seen as much frothing demand, but aside from intensity, the reaction feels about the same to me.
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  #65  
Old 09-19-2018, 04:36 PM
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It might be a premature observation because only a quarter of the games for this have been announced, but for the SNES mini there was a huge outpouring of "yeah they nailed it, this is incredible!!!" gushing, give or take a grievance about Chrono Trigger not being there. The NES mini had grousing about its selection, but it still immediately became a Desirable Object in the conversation, to an even more heightened degree as it became harder to find and purchase.

With the PlayStation Classic, I've perceived more suspicion about its existence and the way it proposes to bring back the experience of the system, and ambivalence as to its reason to exist. Whether that's because people feel these game are available to them through other means, or whether the games announced aren't connecting with the audience on a gut level, or because this is the limit of childhood nostalgia for a particular age range, I don't know, but it's likely all of the above to varying degrees. I also think that for some people, PlayStation and its generation of 3D visuals and related game design are a more subjectively fraught thing to repackage for the purposes of nostalgia than universally entrenched and beloved 8 and 16-bit iconography and experiences. The cultural perception of early 3D visuals does not engender the same kind of genuine or kitschy appreciation as its 2D predecessors, by and large.
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  #66  
Old 09-19-2018, 04:42 PM
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... fall deeper in love with Alundra 2.
Alundra... 2?

I tried to love that game, but it beat me down.
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  #67  
Old 09-19-2018, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Daikaiju View Post
Alundra... 2?

I tried to love that game, but it beat me down.
If this helps you appreciate its virtues:

The 'easy' difficulty mode in the American release was the Japanese version's lone and intended difficulty setting, the 'normal' mode was actually a poorly balanced fiasco put in by the localizers.
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  #68  
Old 09-19-2018, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Peklo View Post
With the PlayStation Classic, I've perceived more suspicion about its existence and the way it proposes to bring back the experience of the system, and ambivalence as to its reason to exist. Whether that's because people feel these game are available to them through other means, or whether the games announced aren't connecting with the audience on a gut level, or because this is the limit of childhood nostalgia for a particular age range, I don't know, but it's likely all of the above to varying degrees. I also think that for some people, PlayStation and its generation of 3D visuals and related game design are a more subjectively fraught thing to repackage for the purposes of nostalgia than universally entrenched and beloved 8 and 16-bit iconography and experiences. The cultural perception of early 3D visuals does not engender the same kind of genuine or kitschy appreciation as its 2D predecessors, by and large.
I've likened the early 3D stuff on SAT/PS1/N64 as being in the midst of some pretty heavy growing pains along the lines of Intellivision and Atari 2600 stuff. While there are some definite gems on those consoles (Pitfall! and Adventure come to mind) you don't see as strong of an outpouring of support in general for the corresponding throwback consoles as the NES/SNES classic did, and I think it's because the libraries have a lot of rough design edges. This probably isn't helped by the fact that the number of obvious tentpole releases I can think of for the console are pretty minimal -- Final Fantasy (7), Crash Bandicoot (which just got an enhanced rerelease package), Spyro the Dragon (in a similar situation), Ape Escape, Symphony of the Night, and...Parappa?

What I really want out of a collection like this is off-kilter but intriguing stuff that might not have been localized before. Stuff like Enix's Suzuki Bakuhatsu, Konami's Bishi Bashi Special, or Polygon Magic's Incredible Crisis. Maybe something you could call "The Ultimate Net Yaroze Collection".

I guess what I really want must be a cross between the Ouya and WarioWare Gold.
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  #69  
Old 09-19-2018, 05:27 PM
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Star Fox 2 being on SNES Classic was a case of these things living up to their FULLEST POTENTIAL, and if the PS Classic has some previously unlocalized or unreleased surprise up its sleeve I would be very impressed.
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  #70  
Old 09-19-2018, 05:29 PM
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Let us not invoke Thrill Kill.
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  #71  
Old 09-19-2018, 05:35 PM
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It's honestly almost quaint that this got an AO for violence, compared to the montage of gleeful ultraviolence in your average E3 press conference.

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  #72  
Old 09-19-2018, 05:36 PM
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I get that opinions are more divided on the PSone greats than, say, SNES. The console was much more reliant on third parties for its success, a lot of 90s 3D and 3D gameplay hasn't aged as gracefully as 90s 2D ventures. And really, even selecting 20 games doesn't do the library justice.

Still, I like the selection that's been shown so far. And lest we forget, there are still many people who haven't owned Sony platforms between the PS2 and PS4. Xbox 360 was the favored HD boy outside Japan last gen, and Sony always fumbled the ball when it came to its handhelds.
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  #73  
Old 09-19-2018, 05:42 PM
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My desire for PS1 Classic games is split between wanting genera defining works like Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy VII and Symphony of the Night and nostalgic jank like Omega Boost and Battle Arena Toshinden.
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  #74  
Old 09-19-2018, 05:47 PM
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Thrill Kill can remain buried, but only because its incredible game engine lived on in "Wu-Tang: Shaolin Style".

And as far as "Wu-Tang: Shaolin Style" goes, I will accept it not being on the PS Classic ONLY BECAUSE that game lives or dies by having full four-player simultaneous matches.
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  #75  
Old 09-19-2018, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by muteKi View Post
you don't see as strong of an outpouring of support in general for the corresponding throwback consoles as the NES/SNES classic did, and I think it's because the libraries have a lot of rough design edges.
That might be part of it, but I don't think it accounts for everything. The 8 and 16 bit eras are loaded with poorly designed shovelware. And even the greats of those eras are often nigh inaccessible to the unindoctrinated with regards to difficulty curves, punishing trial & error game design, and unforgiving game over states.

I think a lot of it boils down to nostalgia and audience. A lot of people my age, and I assume similarly aged people on this board, the 32bit era wasn't their first pony ride and they came to it with a much more critical eye than earlier console cycles. So the nostalgia won't be as overwhelming and pure versus say, your first gaming console. And those voices are going to balance out the other voices where the 32bit era was their first gaming experiences. My little brother has reverence for games like Medievil, Parappa, Tekken 3, Monster Rancher, Legend of Dragoon, Legend of Legaia, Spyro, Spider-Man, Resident Evil 2, Twisted Metal, THPS, Crash Bandicoot, Darkstalkers 3, Wipeout XL, Syphon Filter, Blasto, Etc, where I have little to none. There's tons of younger millenials and kids even younger who are beginning to get money and hold a lot of reverence for the 32 bit era. The only thing that will tank this is a poor selection of games and not understanding who their audience is.
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  #76  
Old 09-19-2018, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by estragon View Post
It's honestly almost quaint that this got an AO for violence, compared to the montage of gleeful ultraviolence in your average E3 press conference.
I watched like a third of this video and was almost tempted to yell out "ow my component parts" when somebody exploded.

I could see Thrill Kill getting an M rating just because that's the kinda rating stuff with bloody model parts falling off got (also the insane asylum thing and cannibal wielding a leg), but this stupid game is definitely tame compared to what passes for M-rated nowadays. Outlast is way more deserving of an AO than this dumb thing
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  #77  
Old 09-19-2018, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
I think a lot of it boils down to nostalgia and audience. A lot of people my age, and I assume similarly aged people on this board, the 32bit era wasn't their first pony ride and they came to it with a much more critical eye than earlier console cycles. So the nostalgia won't be as overwhelming and pure versus say, your first gaming console. And those voices are going to balance out the other voices where the 32bit era was their first gaming experiences.
That's pretty much the gist of it, yeah. I'm 38, plenty old enough to remember the NES and SNES heyday and to have a vibrant, if predictable, nostalgia for those machines. My PSX was the first non-Nintendo system I owned, and I bought it on the strength of FF7 and Symphony of the Night. It was the summer before my senior year of H.S.; I was 17. So while there is nostalgia and appreciation there, it's certainly a lesser nostalgia. I don't mean to wax poetic but the difference is between being an innocent kid, when the world is shiny and new and everything has a sheen to it, and being a teenager staring into the abyss of adulthood, not quite there yet but old enough for life's shine to have dulled considerably.
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  #78  
Old 09-19-2018, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Deptford View Post
Star Fox 2 being on SNES Classic was a case of these things living up to their FULLEST POTENTIAL, and if the PS Classic has some previously unlocalized or unreleased surprise up its sleeve I would be very impressed.
Yeah, this thought sprang to mind for me too. The fact that Sony has donned a Sakurai wig and is trying to build a Smash Bros.-like hype cycle by drip-feeding the titles makes it seem like they could have something up their sleeve. But then again, maybe it's just a marketing mook that thought Nintendo botched their announcements by revealing everything up front and figured "I can do better!"
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  #79  
Old 09-19-2018, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by four-so View Post
That's pretty much the gist of it, yeah. I'm 38, plenty old enough to remember the NES and SNES heyday and to have a vibrant, if predictable, nostalgia for those machines. My PSX was the first non-Nintendo system I owned, and I bought it on the strength of FF7 and Symphony of the Night. It was the summer before my senior year of H.S.; I was 17. So while there is nostalgia and appreciation there, it's certainly a lesser nostalgia. I don't mean to wax poetic but the difference is between being an innocent kid, when the world is shiny and new and everything has a sheen to it, and being a teenager staring into the abyss of adulthood, not quite there yet but old enough for life's shine to have dulled considerably.
I'll be 40 next month and this is similar to my own experience (though I didn't play all the way through MGS and SotN until the mid-2000s). Even so, I have a fondness for the PS1's JRPG output, especially FF7,8,9 and Tactics and Xenogears.
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  #80  
Old 09-19-2018, 07:16 PM
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What would be hilarious is if FF8 was included, and there was a even a viral campaign of 'Not on the Switch... not on the XBox One... This Christmas, the place for Final Fantasy VIII is... PlayStation Classic."
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  #81  
Old 09-19-2018, 07:19 PM
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I was wondering why there was a patch pushed out to PSVitas and PSTVs to fix an exploit out of the blue. They don't want to compete with backed up games on their own hardware. Good thing I hacked my Vita literally the day before that happened.

Last edited by LancerECNM; 09-19-2018 at 10:29 PM.
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  #82  
Old 09-19-2018, 07:26 PM
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I was wondering why there was a patch pushed out to PSVitas and PSTVs to fix an exploit out of the blue. They don't to compete with backed up games on their own hardware. Good thing I hacked my Vita literally the day before that happened.
In good jesting fun:

Why Spend $99 on a PlayStation Classic When You Can Hack a PSP and Never Shut the Fuck Up About It?
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  #83  
Old 09-19-2018, 07:34 PM
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I'm 36 but I'm still excited about having a li'l PlayStation-shaped box that can play ancient 3D games from my high school days.
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  #84  
Old 09-19-2018, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Deptford View Post
The older I get, the less 'nostalgia' I yearn for...I ended up barely playing my SNES Classic until it had the likes of Eternal Filena slammed into its husk. I still think plenty of my old favorites are great, and love 'em, but any time I spent playing them on the SNES Classic felt kinda hollow. It really drove home how much more interested I was in discovering new favorites instead of revisiting old ones.
I got a ton of play out of both Classics, and still have lots of play to come. The ideal way to play, for me, is to go in chronological order, only moving on to the next game when I'm satisfied that I'm done with the current one. For most of the games, that means beating them, though I fudged that rule a bit with stuff like G&G.

There's value in curated collections, and I love the structure they can bring to picking something to play. It's like a tour of the system's life. If I stuff every ROM ever onto a thing I end up playing nothing.

None of this undermines the points about lack of preservation, of course. The death of PS Archives is a tragedy. But I love these tiny systems and the joy they've brought to my life.
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  #85  
Old 09-19-2018, 08:43 PM
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Ugh! They did this article already! It's like they're writing these with a Mad Libs page and a pencil!

(Also, I'll have you know that you can permanently hack a 3000 without a Pandora battery and it's really not that hard and... I'm one of those guys, aren't I?)
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  #86  
Old 09-19-2018, 09:07 PM
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(Also, I'll have you know that you can permanently hack a 3000 without a Pandora battery and it's really not that hard and... I'm one of those guys, aren't I?)
I'll be one of those guys with you. My hacked 3000 rules. Waiting for the 7th Dragon 2020-II English patch atm...

I'll probably end up getting a Playstation Classic unless all the remaining games are uninteresting to me. I really like these mini consoles!
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  #87  
Old 09-19-2018, 10:07 PM
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I was just thinking, if this is successful and all the next logical step would be the PSone Classic. Like, make a mini unit shaped like the babby-sized reissue of the PlayStation, with the LCD screen you could attached to it to make it kinda sorta portable.

Or hell, just attach two halves of a DUALSHOCK to an LCD screen and give it access to the PSone Classics store. I'd buy it. No I mean a real DUALSHOCK, not the Vita. You know, with all the shoulder buttons and rumble. And give it some real damn memory space and SD card compatibility!
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  #88  
Old 09-19-2018, 10:38 PM
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look, i need my space griffon vf-9, retranslated FF7, and mega man powered up okay

also i guarantee the PSClassic itself will be hacked within nanoseconds
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  #89  
Old 09-19-2018, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Deptford View Post
Consensus opinions need to be questioned and overthrown sometimes, and I feel like the highest value of revisiting old consoles in any form is to try the many gems that slipped between the cracks into obscurity, or were misunderstood and underappreciated when they were new. Instead, companies seem more excited to just offer people a chance to play things they already played, which seems so backwards, even though yeah, clearly there's a market for it, so I get it, it just...feels like a waste! And seems kinda counter-intuitive!
Unfortunately, it seems like the populous (not the game) really likes to play the same small number of games over and over. My local video game store has game night Fridays where they set up consoles and arcade games. There are just so many games to choose from, but all I ever see people playing are Duck Hunt, Super Mario World, Mega Man X, Metal Slug X, some Street Fighter II, and (of course) Konami's X-Men.


As for people asking about Gran Turismo 2, that game has licensed cars and licensed music, so probably never. In fact, the Playstation days had lots of (racing) games using licensed music, so I'm looking forward to things like Ridge Racer, Crash Team Racing, and "Racing." On the bright side, I don't have to worry about Test Drive: Off Road wasting space on this collection.
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  #90  
Old 09-19-2018, 11:01 PM
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Yeah, I'd already assumed that Sony getting Namco to put Ridge Racer Type 4 on it was their way of saying "We can't afford to license all that car and music shit again just for an old PSone ROM."
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