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  #31  
Old 07-05-2018, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Peklo View Post
wow what a stellarly written mature game

Was this really the best reader input that could be highlighted? I thought the article was supposed to cast the game in a favourable light!
USGamer is fucking trash. If this is the kind of thing they choose to highlight to portray the games favourably, what does that say about any of these choices?
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  #32  
Old 07-05-2018, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Pajaro Pete View Post
faris is the same tired cross dressing trope that's prevalent in anime and video games: "i'm actually _____, i just dress this way as a means to an end"
This is a reading not supported by anything in the game itself. Faris is never portrayed as anything less than comfortable and confident in her presentation. This only counts as "crossdressing" if you view any sort of non-conformity to traditional gender roles as such.
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  #33  
Old 07-05-2018, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
And pretty much every FF game before 7 is prohibitively grindy for me to ever fully enjoy again.
You should not ever have to grind in FF4-6 unless you're doing some kind of self-imposed challenge run. They're very breezy games, balanced almost ridiculously in the player's favor.

(That being said, a lot of people do accidentally impose challenge runs on themselves by hoarding items or whatever.)
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  #34  
Old 07-05-2018, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by conchobhar View Post
This is a reading not supported by anything in the game itself. Faris is never portrayed as anything less than comfortable and confident in her presentation. This only counts as "crossdressing" if you view any sort of non-conformity to traditional gender roles as such.
The literal, actual text from the game:
artz: Yeow! Lenna- this- he-

Galuf: Oh, my stars and comets! HE'S A SHE!

Faris: Well- maybe I am! You got a problem with it!?

Lenna: Of course not... Just, why were you trying to hide it?

Faris: When I was just a lad- er, lass, a pirate band took me in. I've been one
of them ever since.

Bartz: Yeah, so?

Faris: Well, would YOU want to be the only girl on a ship full of pirates?

Bartz: ...Ah, right. Yeah.

Galuf: Haw! I knew from the start that you were too pretty to be a man!
*whew...*

Faris: Anyhow- make fun of me for really being a woman and I'll shiver your
timbers but good!
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  #35  
Old 07-05-2018, 11:00 AM
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I wonder if anyone has asked Kat why they decided to highlight that comment.

It's awful and not a credit to the game at all (I haven't play Tactics Ogre but I can't imagine any game being improved by that detail.)
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  #36  
Old 07-05-2018, 11:02 AM
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Faris is a trans. Don't @ me.
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  #37  
Old 07-05-2018, 11:06 AM
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One thing I notice in that dialogue because I was playing it not that long ago is that the English localization adds gender confusion to Faris's dialogue that was not present in the original text. There's no equivalent to "When I was just a lad- er, lass."

Quote:
主「レナ、こ、こいつ…
ガラフ「女じゃ!
ファリス「悪いか!
レナ「でも、どうして?
ファリス「おれは、小さいころ海ぞくに、ひろわれて 育ったんだ…
主「それで、男のフリを?
ファリス「海ぞくで、女じゃあバカにされるからな…
ガラフ「フム。たしかに男にしては美しすぎると思っとった!
ファリス「でもなあ!女だからってバカにすんなよ!
Faris consistently uses male speech patterns, while also explicitly self-identifying as a woman.

It's definitely played for gay panic jokes, but in their pursuit of a gay panic set up they accidentally wrote a genderqueer/nonbinary character. (Faris was assigned female at birth and still self-identifies as female, but uses male pronouns.)
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  #38  
Old 07-05-2018, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Falselogic View Post
I wonder if anyone has asked Kat why they decided to highlight that comment.

It's awful and not a credit to the game at all (I haven't play Tactics Ogre but I can't imagine any game being improved by that detail.)
one would assume it's to try and liken the game to try hard edgy fantasy schlock like cultural phenomenon game of thrones (which, to be fair, Oz is written as try hard edgy fantasy schlock, but he's also a fairly minor antagonist, all things considered)

Last edited by Pajaro Pete; 07-05-2018 at 11:17 AM.
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  #39  
Old 07-05-2018, 11:35 AM
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Faris is also aro-ace.

Still don't @ me.
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  #40  
Old 07-05-2018, 11:47 AM
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I always thought Faris was a tomboy. I guess we all see what we want to see.
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  #41  
Old 07-05-2018, 12:04 PM
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I always thought Faris was a female that adopted male traits, speech, and mannerisms as a survival tactic, per what the game seems to heavily imply all on its own.

Faris may be aro-ace, I don't really know, but that seems to be the case for all of the main characters within the context of the game. But I've only played through it once so I could be misremembering. Is there any romance in the game besides the brief bits shown with Bartz's parents?
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  #42  
Old 07-05-2018, 12:05 PM
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I mean there's also the fact that western society has so thoroughly accepted the idea of tomboy, that a lot of transmasculine folk have thought they were "just tomboys".

It's both empowering (for cisladies) and also an effective gaslighting (self or otherwise) tactic.

Kinda like how it's easier for transdudes to "pass" because it's ok to be "boyish" looking (ie slightly feminine), whereas transwomen are easily dismissed as "men in dresses". Which makes me rage.
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  #43  
Old 07-05-2018, 12:28 PM
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Considering Faris was effectively raised by that pirate brigade I don't think it's really reasonable to read that line as "I'm woman but I had to deny my own identity to fit in", especially considering that is the past and at no point beyond that does she desire or feel comfortable presenting feminine. It's still a very harsh reading to read:
Quote:
Faris: When I was just a lad- er, lass, a pirate band took me in. I've been one
of them ever since.

Bartz: Yeah, so?

Faris: Well, would YOU want to be the only girl on a ship full of pirates?

Bartz: ...Ah, right. Yeah.
As this straight forward sort of "I became a new person to survive". It's just as easy to read it as accepting her environment and not allowing her born gender to prevent her from becoming part of personal identity. I don't think that's a survival tactic I think that's just her acknowledging and further ignoring gender-norms.

And i don't really care if the response is that it's a wonky reading of gay-panic because the game isn't very committed to that idea en masse.
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  #44  
Old 07-05-2018, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by four-so View Post
Faris may be aro-ace, I don't really know, but that seems to be the case for all of the main characters within the context of the game. But I've only played through it once so I could be misremembering. Is there any romance in the game besides the brief bits shown with Bartz's parents?
Galuf and Bartz are both portrayed as being horny for Faris. This is part of the game's gay panic and gender essentialism. The game creates tension by suggesting that these two men may in fact be attracted to another man. The heteronormative and gender essentialist punchline of the joke that relieves the tension is the reveal that they were not attracted to another man, because Faris is actually a woman.

But uhhhh obviously a text where two dudes have the hots for a self-identified woman who prefers male pronouns and presents as a man is extremely amenable to queer readings of all three characters.
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  #45  
Old 07-05-2018, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pajaro Pete View Post
one would assume it's to try and liken the game to try hard edgy fantasy schlock like cultural phenomenon game of thrones (which, to be fair, Oz is written as try hard edgy fantasy schlock, but he's also a fairly minor antagonist, all things considered)
Yeah, that's what I assumed. Definitely not the best thing to highlight, but "Hey look it's kinda like that dark and edgy fantasy show you like" was probably the intent.
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  #46  
Old 07-05-2018, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pajaro Pete View Post
one would assume it's to try and liken the game to try hard edgy fantasy schlock like cultural phenomenon game of thrones (which, to be fair, Oz is written as try hard edgy fantasy schlock, but he's also a fairly minor antagonist, all things considered)
To be fair. Tactics Ogre (and FFT) heavily draw inspiration from IRL history and all the insane political intrigue of warring medieval states of that time and place in the Balkans (I think?) and that kind of shit is exactly what Game of Thrones also leans on for inspiration in a moment of convergent evolution. So if the intent is to draw parallels to GoT, it's not unwarranted or inappropriate. Just kinda 👀

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivers View Post
I always thought Faris was a tomboy. I guess we all see what we want to see.
As estragon pointed out, it's a situation that is very amenable and open to a queer reading. But if I had to guess just knowing Japanese culture and the writers here, there's nothing remotely that progressive and queer-positive going on as their writing motivation. Tomboys aren't meant to be trans-gendered, they're just girls who like to do boy-things. I'd very much like for this game to be saying something more, but I'm not willing to give its creators/Japan that benefit of the doubt. Especially when, in Japanese media, tomboys on average mostly exist so that a sufficiently masculine lead can come along and teach them how to be proper girls.
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  #47  
Old 07-05-2018, 01:08 PM
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Thank goddess the author is dead and the media can mean whatever you want it to.
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  #48  
Old 07-05-2018, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
To be fair. Tactics Ogre (and FFT) heavily draw inspiration from IRL history and all the insane political intrigue of warring medieval states of that time and place in the Balkans (I think?) and that kind of shit is exactly what Game of Thrones also leans on for inspiration in a moment of convergent evolution. So if the intent is to draw parallels to GoT, it's not unwarranted or inappropriate. Just kinda 👀
If the intent is to get readers interested in the game because it draws from the same political-military quagmire as Game of Thrones, with a similarly large cast each with their own motivations and interests, then say that. Don't tell an anecdote about a character who links incest to trans panic and then expect it to somehow do the heavy lifting in making that comparison for you.
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  #49  
Old 07-05-2018, 01:16 PM
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That highlighted comment also jumped out to me as bizarre. Tactics Ogre is a top 5 all timer for me and... uh... Oz is the last thing I would highlight about the game.
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  #50  
Old 07-05-2018, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Westerhof View Post
If the intent is to get readers interested in the game because it draws from the same political-military quagmire as Game of Thrones, with a similarly large cast each with their own motivations and interests, then say that.
I am also baffled about what that bizarre reader mail was quoted at length or included at all, but she does also say that:

Quote:
Its dense lore; grim outlook, and winding politics bring to mind Game of Thrones at points, which is a remarkable thing to say for a game developed in an era dominated by cartoon mascots.
It's not the sentence immediately before the quote, but it is the sentence preceding the sentence immediately before the quote. I think the goal of quoting the reader e-mail was maybe to try to illustrate that idea, but it was not a strong example.
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  #51  
Old 07-05-2018, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Falselogic View Post
Thank goddess the author is dead and the media can mean whatever you want it to.
People are free to believe whatever they want personally, but let's not pretend that everyone subscribes to the same philosophy of literary analysis as Death of the Author.
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  #52  
Old 07-05-2018, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by estragon View Post
It's not the sentence immediately before the quote, but it is the sentence preceding the sentence immediately before the quote. I think the goal of quoting the reader e-mail was maybe to try to illustrate that idea, but it was not a strong example.
I don't even think that comparing it to GoT is the worst thing you can do to bridge a gap in understanding with the readership but I would've highlighted a, you know, positive aspect of GoT that TO shares.
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  #53  
Old 07-05-2018, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Falselogic View Post
Thank goddess the author is dead and the media can mean whatever you want it to.
The rise of the internet also means that the author's not quite dead after all. Much like Film Studies, you can argue either way.
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  #54  
Old 07-05-2018, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Galadrome View Post
I don't even think that comparing it to GoT is the worst thing you can do to bridge a gap in understanding with the readership but I would've highlighted a, you know, positive aspect of GoT that TO shares.
for a lot of people, the selling point of game of thrones is the gross shock content
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  #55  
Old 07-05-2018, 01:37 PM
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Next person to @ me or Gaer on this gets blasted into space or Skyrim. Whichever you find more horrifying.
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  #56  
Old 07-05-2018, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Pajaro Pete View Post
for a lot of people, the selling point of game of thrones is the gross shock content
These are the same people who find Cards Against Humanity a compelling game, aren't they?
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  #57  
Old 07-05-2018, 01:39 PM
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i always wanted to be an astronaut
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  #58  
Old 07-05-2018, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Falselogic View Post
These are the same people who find Cards Against Humanity a compelling game, aren't they?
i don't follow
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  #59  
Old 07-05-2018, 01:41 PM
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i don't follow
Some people have played CAH with gross people which makes it a gross game. But that's the people's fault, not the game's.
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  #60  
Old 07-05-2018, 01:58 PM
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Edit: Missed False's post already urging people to move along.

That TO reader op is legit terrible though.
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