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  #31  
Old 12-12-2017, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Ample Vigour View Post
I reread those parts and I really don't see it. He comes across as stilted, but not calculating.
the constant stuff about her being a 'film snob' when she'd taken ONE class on film? Please.
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  #32  
Old 12-12-2017, 08:25 AM
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There's not a huge amount of "there" there with Robert, Margot never really learns much of him and so we kind of have to read into him, but that last bit says a lot.

But also this story is about the godawful contortions that women* perform in order to make things go smoothly for the men around them!
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  #33  
Old 12-12-2017, 08:32 AM
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It's telling that Margot understands at the end that the whole relationship was a farce, for both people, but Robert doesn't.
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  #34  
Old 12-12-2017, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by upupdowndown View Post
the constant stuff about her being a 'film snob' when she'd taken ONE class on film? Please.
Stilted and defensive, but again not calculated. I'm not calling him a nice man, but the PUA read rings hollow to me.
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  #35  
Old 12-12-2017, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Ample Vigour View Post
Stilted and defensive, but again not calculated. I'm not calling him a nice man, but the PUA read rings hollow to me.
ah okay, I think this is a terminology dispute

I'm not saying he was negging her in a calculated PUA way

I'm saying that he was negging her because that's what our culture teaches dudes to do to assert their power over women

he probably thought he was being playful

"if a boy teases you it's because he likes you"

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But also this story is about the godawful contortions that women* perform in order to make things go smoothly for the men around them!
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Originally Posted by Dracula View Post
It's telling that Margot understands at the end that the whole relationship was a farce, for both people, but Robert doesn't.
yeah, exactly
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  #36  
Old 12-12-2017, 09:27 AM
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Ample Vigour Ample Vigour is offline
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Originally Posted by upupdowndown View Post
ah okay, I think this is a terminology dispute

I'm not saying he was negging her in a calculated PUA way

I'm saying that he was negging her because that's what our culture teaches dudes to do to assert their power over women

he probably thought he was being playful

"if a boy teases you it's because he likes you"
You're coming through loud and clear now. Building on that and

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Originally Posted by Dracula View Post
It's telling that Margot understands at the end that the whole relationship was a farce, for both people, but Robert doesn't.
this is what I've been thinking about in terms of that unnamed protagonist I mentioned upthread: If you think of the story from that perspective, then there's an obvious rising/falling action.

Who is the protagonist? The patriarchy. What does the protagonist want? To be reinforced by having these two people act out a poisonous relationship. Does it get what it wants? There's a close call during and after the sex scene where Margot realizes she doesn't want any of this and her friend tells the truth to Robert, who almost accepts that at face value. All is lost until Robert saves the day at the last second.

e: I think Protomartyr put it well.

Quote:
But it all changed when he came of age
It was nothing like the simulated game
The women didn't love him
The races all ignored him
His proclamations failed
So he screamed
"Now you bend!"

The devil in his youth

I will make them feel the way I do
I'll corrupt them till they think the way I do
The devil in his youth

You will feel the way I do
You'll hurt the way I do

He was easily abused
The devil in his youth

Last edited by Ample Vigour; 12-12-2017 at 09:54 AM.
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  #37  
Old 12-12-2017, 05:24 PM
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Hey, props to this board for keeping it all real and offering solid analysis and discussion. There's a discussion about this story on another board I read that's REALLY going to shit on both sides of the gender line.
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  #38  
Old 12-12-2017, 06:37 PM
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Hey, props to this board for keeping it all real and offering solid analysis and discussion. There's a discussion about this story on another board I read that's REALLY going to shit on both sides of the gender line.
Of course it did. I don't post there.
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