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  #211  
Old 05-04-2016, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by MrChris View Post
If there's a skill you really want, having a low-level character you can powerlevel in order to get the skills is really helpful.

At the same time, playing the game in such a way as to guarantee that your character always have optimal level-up gains is really fiddly and irritating, so I don't recommend doing it as a matter of course.
BoF 4 handled the masters in a more reasonable fashion so you didn't have to use that first degenerate tactic or the fiddly second one.
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  #212  
Old 05-04-2016, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by spineshark View Post
I am deeply convinced that if Dragon Quarter came out now, in an environment where games where you die and continue with better knowledge (and maybe some stat perks) are (close to) mainstream, it'd be rightly recognized as truly great by waaaaaaaay more people. I've really never felt that it was that long, either.
Plus remember that in the PS1 era and early PS2 era, RPGs being really, really long was a selling point, and RPGs with shorter lengths got knocked for being too short in reviews. Now, if you're longer than 40 hours you better be some of the most compelling shit ever.
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  #213  
Old 05-04-2016, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
RPGs being really, really long was a selling point, and RPGs with shorter lengths got knocked for being too short in reviews.
That was like the third stupidest thing about late 90s and early 00s reviews ever, right behind 2D = Bad and "This game is really good but we're docking it points 'cuz it's kiddie and what we perceive as our regular readers are averse to anything that has charm and a soul."
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  #214  
Old 05-05-2016, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by spineshark View Post
...which is as short as *any* console jrpg i've played (it's roughly tied with Eternal Sonata, which was mercifully super short, and Phantasy Star IV, which is large but overall very fast-paced).
Huh, I've always wanted to play PSIV, and hearing that it's less than 20 hours long is making me think I might finally do that. It's what got me to start Dragon Quarter!

Re: tedious optimization strategies in DQ, my understanding is that I probably won't have to restart more than one more time from where I am. I'd rather play most of the game twice than play the first bit 7 times in a row to power-level, that sounds boring as fuck. Especially since you have so few combat options before you get Nina in your party.
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  #215  
Old 05-05-2016, 07:03 AM
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yeah, i only restarted once the first time i beat the game, and plenty of people avoided it completely (i was literally about 1/10th of a percent away). just play normal for as long as you can, then mash dragon stuff as far as you can after that. then if you restart you'll be in good shape. people talk about stuff like saving a bunch of copies of the violet sword to sell but like. it's not that specifically important what you do (as long as you don't forfeit a bunch of stuff unnecessarily by continuing from game over like i already mentioned)
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  #216  
Old 05-05-2016, 07:10 AM
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I haven't played Dragon Quarter since it was new, but I'm 90% certain that I finished it without ever re-starting or engaging with the restore/replay system at all. I recall the D-Counter getting dicey near the end. I doubt I'd have finished it at all if I'd had to re-start, since replaying through the same story content more than once is one of my biggest gaming pet-peeves (every time I play Chrono Trigger I swear that this will be the time that I get all the endings, and then I get 1-2 and decide "fuck this" and stop), and I'm sure I beat it.
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  #217  
Old 05-05-2016, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by MrChris View Post
If you can get Nina apprenticed to, say, Yggdrasil before she gains any levels, she'll see a huge increase in her AP and Intelligence, which are her most important stats in any case (the Defense bonus doesn't hurt either.) Similarly, if you keep Peco from gaining any levels until you can apprentice him to Bunyan or a similarly physically-oriented master, he'll become a terrifying punchbeast.
I never made the giant spreadsheet that would be necessary to make the optimal decisions for masters. :/ I just did whatever seemed like a good idea at the time, which in retrospect may be why certain parts of the game felt excessively difficult.

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Originally Posted by MrChris View Post
Breath of Fire 2 sets you up with at least a couple people in your party from the very beginning, and it might even given them abilities other than Attack, Defend, Run, and Item. This puts it way ahead of the beginning stages of BoF 1.
That's... got no impact, for me, on tedium. You can clear the first boss of BoF at level 5 with ease, and cheese most battles up to Gremlin with the E.Key. Shortly after, you can get your first dragon spells, and your options for party members and equipment basically explode a little further on. It's a little barebones, but it's a functional dragon fantasy quest.

BoF2 is the harbinger of the nonsensical unintuitive BS to come, complete with "God is secretly evil" plot - a plot made mostly of filler, with characters using too many words to say too little. All that might be tolerable, but every single thing from the first game was nerfed.
  • healing and buffing spells no longer have priority, which sucks even more because the healers are some of the slowest characters and most enemies are fast
  • damage spells no longer do set damage, and often do less damage than a physical from your back-row mage (but still cost lots of AP)
  • dragons are single use, cost all AP, and do very little damage if you're not at full AP (to facilitate this situation, you no longer gain actual AP when your max AP increases from a level up, even though you do gain HP)
  • the second tier of dragon spells is easily missed and for some reason non-elemental
  • AP-restoring items cost 10x as much in a game with less ready cash, are way less common, and also inflict HP damage
  • random encounters are extremely... well, extreme. I've never seen an encounter rate anywhere near as high as this, and there's no way to eliminate it (unlike the first game) nor, seemingly, to reduce it even slightly (the spell and item for this effect have never made a difference for me)
  • most character abilities work so rarely or in such a way that you're better off just attacking
  • everything about shamans, TownShip, the Dragon Tear, Cond./Guts, and party management

That's the top-of-my-head list, anyway. I've never actually finished the game because it's such a slog.
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  #218  
Old 05-25-2016, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by JBear View Post
I haven't played Dragon Quarter since it was new, but I'm 90% certain that I finished it without ever re-starting or engaging with the restore/replay system at all. I recall the D-Counter getting dicey near the end. I doubt I'd have finished it at all if I'd had to re-start, since replaying through the same story content more than once is one of my biggest gaming pet-peeves (every time I play Chrono Trigger I swear that this will be the time that I get all the endings, and then I get 1-2 and decide "fuck this" and stop), and I'm sure I beat it.
Yup, I also made it all the way through Dragon Quarter the first time. Well not, really the first time since my first play I got a game over before or during the first boss fight and just started the game over. But I was able to (just barely) get through it from scratch. I think I D-Dived the last three bosses, but that was enough.
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  #219  
Old 05-25-2016, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ThricebornPhoenix View Post
  • random encounters are extremely... well, extreme. I've never seen an encounter rate anywhere near as high as this, and there's no way to eliminate it (unlike the first game) nor, seemingly, to reduce it even slightly (the spell and item for this effect have never made a difference for me)
It's true and all but the little dancing onion guy on the party menu screen is supposed to show how active the enemies are. And will slow down if you fight enough random battles, until finally they're all gone. Note that some areas have tons upon tons of random battles.
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  #220  
Old 05-25-2016, 06:46 AM
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GBA version of BoFII on an emulator with fast-forward is the only way.

The game is actually pretty fun when you can speed through all the tedious nonsense.
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  #221  
Old 05-25-2016, 07:14 AM
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You people who are able to beat this game on one try are gods compared to me.
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  #222  
Old 05-25-2016, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Moon Orbit View Post
You people who are able to beat this game on one try are gods compared to me.
For Dragon Quarter, the trick is to use the resources the game gives you DECISIVELY, but play cautiously. D-Dive to win a battle if you don't see another solution, but maybe you can keep that giant monster at bay with the right set of techniques and have it murder itself on your traps or Nina's glyphs?

Once you get to Elysium, you're supposed to be using D-Dive to solve the guard break mechanic.

Also, remember to use your party XP. The game can still be mostly beaten by throwing the level curve. It's more intense earlier in the game, but a Ryu starting at level 10 was enough for me to plow through the game for my first win after a pair of restarts to get my bearings on the system.
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  #223  
Old 05-25-2016, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghosttaster View Post
GBA version of BoFII on an emulator with fast-forward is the only way.

The game is actually pretty fun when you can speed through all the tedious nonsense.
This is true for basically every JRPG that expects you to grind. The tedious nonsense is only "fun" when you have time for the tedious nonsense.
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  #224  
Old 05-25-2016, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Classic View Post
For Dragon Quarter, the trick is to use the resources the game gives you DECISIVELY, but play cautiously.
You're describing how to play a roguelike. No wonder I liked Dragon Quarter.
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  #225  
Old 05-25-2016, 11:40 AM
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It takes a lot of cues from Japanese iterations on the genre. Like Shiren games, part of the meta is knowing when to accept that you're going to fail and squirrel away your assets for your next attempt.

But...
If we want to be pointlessly reductive: All RPGs without a continue-after death mechanic are roguelikes. They just have a relatively small number of interesting game variations.

Dragon Quarter is more like Dragon Quest in that it promises you: If you understand out systems and put in the time, you will eventually win. You can level past the difficulty curve (to a point). That's simply not true in Nethack. Some runs are simply destined to fail, and if you're already knowledgeable about the game, there's not much way to make an obviously doomed run valuable.
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  #226  
Old 05-25-2016, 01:25 PM
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I think it's important to remember that you can take advantage of the SOL system without starting over from the beginning. Though you will probably need to read up on it online, since the game doesn't explain it well.

Basically, though, you want to fight large groups of enemies (ideally including at least one strong enemy), use you dragon powers to win the battles as fast as possible, then once you've had enough (or your D-Counter is getting close to 100), put any items you want to keep into storage, and select "SOL Restore" from the pause menu, to return to your last 'hard' save point (DO NOT, at any point during this process, save your game using a Save Token).
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  #227  
Old 07-02-2018, 03:47 PM
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Default Im playing the patched actually understandable version

Is this when I finally play through all of Breath of Fire 2?

Find out next time!
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  #228  
Old 07-02-2018, 04:24 PM
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I like that version a whole lot more than the official one! They did a really professional job. I did not beat it though..
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  #229  
Old 07-03-2018, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Falselogic View Post
Is this when I finally play through all of Breath of Fire 2?

Find out next time!
Narrator: It isn't.
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  #230  
Old 07-03-2018, 08:21 AM
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I'm about at the point where I usually quit. Picked up Rand and the Cat Lady (Min?) and met Nina only to have her get blackmailed.

Tune in next time!
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  #231  
Old 07-03-2018, 08:39 AM
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That's hardly very far at all!

You gotta get stomped by Terrapin before you quit at least.
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  #232  
Old 07-05-2018, 01:58 PM
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I didn't get stomped by Terrapin! I didn't get stomped by the fake frog prince, or Trout from the very first town!

I've never been this far in the game before. I'm scared.
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  #233  
Old 07-05-2018, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Falselogic View Post
I didn't get stomped by Terrapin! I didn't get stomped by the fake frog prince, or Trout from the very first town!

I've never been this far in the game before. I'm scared.
Don't worry, you're extremely close to yet another boss that totally sucks!

That statement is true of pretty much the entire game but hey.
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  #234  
Old 07-05-2018, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Falselogic View Post
I've never been this far in the game before. I'm scared.
If you think you're in this for the long haul, I strongly recommend either (1) make sure not let Sten fall too far behind in levels or (2) use a FAQ and look up when you need to grind Sten to get him caught up, after you inevitably let him fall behind.
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  #235  
Old 07-05-2018, 03:28 PM
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The last time I played through (with the retranslation) I found that swapping party members regularly wasn't as bad as I'd feared. When you find a decent weapon for a party member in a dungeon, you can treat it as a reminder to give that character a little time to play. Because of XP scaling it didn't really negatively affect the survivability of my traditional mains (Nina, Rand, Katt), and when you get one of them forced into your party they are less likely to embarrass themselves. Sten is the worst example of this, because he will have to go solo for a part of the adventure and the niche they seemed to envision for him doesn't actually fit the battle system, but there are plenty of other characters you'll need to use for a period of time.

I have to confess that I did not make it through my most recent run, either... though I guess I could pick it back up, in the spirit of classic summer gaming.
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  #236  
Old 07-05-2018, 06:49 PM
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Shrinking down to go into someone's body to fight 'cellulite monsters,' really?

really?
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  #237  
Old 07-05-2018, 07:08 PM
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So you got past Algernon then. Congratulations!!
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  #238  
Old 07-05-2018, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Falselogic View Post
Shrinking down to go into someone's body to fight 'cellulite monsters,' really?

really?
Is that how they phrase it in the re-translation? I sure don't remember that form the original translation.
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  #239  
Old 07-06-2018, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Falselogic View Post
Shrinking down to go into someone's body to fight 'cellulite monsters,' really?

really?
How did you think liposuction worked?
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  #240  
Old 07-06-2018, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by estragon View Post
grind Sten to get him caught up, after you inevitably let him fall behind.
Sten is really good though, so I don't know why you would let him fall behind!
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