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  #7531  
Old 03-19-2016, 05:38 PM
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I'm not listening to you guys about anything, anymore.
I tried to warn you. I tried.
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  #7532  
Old 03-20-2016, 04:14 AM
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Oh, good. The app saw I was penitent after having suffered enough through Sub Rosa that it made Parallels work again. And it's been a while since an episode that made me dance around shouting "Yaaay" so I'm very glad it did.

And it's a Worf episode that has me dancing around shouting "Yaaay", so that's straight-up weird, that is.

Anyhow, Worf is heading back to the Enterprise after having spent his vacation in a sword fight contest, and it's his birthday. He grouches his way through his party, Worfishly, but odd things keep happening. Subtle Things like the cake changing flavour, the guests at the party changing, people suddenly being in different places, different outcomes to missions and Worf being married to Troi.

After some of these subtle shifts wind up killing Geordi, Worf figures somethings wrong and Data confirms that yep he's probably been popping through incrementally different universes every so often because he fell through a Weird Space Hole. A second, better hint is that the space hole now has hundreds and hundreds of alternate-universe Enterprises pouring out of it. Worf has to flay back through the Space Hole which will cause everything to snap back to the places it's supposed to be, and all the hundreds of Enterprises and just fine with that (well, the one captained by a crazed Riker, driven mad by endless war against the Borg from the Darkest Timeline objected, but then his ship blew up, so NBD) and so Worf heads back through the hole, and everything is fine, and nobody comes to his birthday party, just like he wanted!

Oh, and during the first party, everyone sings "Happy Birthday" in Klingon to him, and Worf pouts because that's not a Klingon song.

The Lower Decks is a Something Different episode that largely ignores the main cast in favour of focusing on a bunch of background extras; the desperate for affirmation Ensign Kissup, the penitent Ensign Rougeblouse, the Logical Scientist Notspock and the boy-crazy nurse gimmekisses

Anyhow, these four chuckleheads are looking for laughs and love in outer space with the help and advice of a sagely bartender (I think Whoopi Goldberg chooses her staff based on how helpful they can be while remaining cheerfully aloof, not how well they can take orders or mix drinks), and while they are deeply curious about the strange rescue mission the Enterprise just underwent, and the odd orders they seem to be given shortly afterward, they're far more concerned about the upcoming employee reviews and whose dating who.

Anyhoo, it turns out that the reason Picard has taken a special interest in browbeating Rougeblouse so severely is because he needed to test her temperament, since she's the only possible candidate on the ship for a dangerous mission (in that she's a somewhat timid Bajoran and, come on, Picard, that's profiling). It turns out that the rescue mission was to pick up a Cardassian spy whose sick of his people being super evil for no real reason, and he needs to take a prisoner back to Cardassia in order to keep up appearances (all the odd requests prior to that we're in preparation for this mission).

Anyhow, as I implied with the name, the mission goes south pretty quickly and the spy and Rougeblouse are both blown to smithereens as soon as a Cardassian has the slightest inclination to blow them up.

And everyone is sad, but they all seem to get over the death of their best friend pretty quickly. Which I suppose is sensible given the average mortality rate associated with working on the Enterprise.
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  #7533  
Old 03-20-2016, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Octopus Prime View Post
(I think Whoopi Goldberg chooses her staff based on how helpful they can be while remaining cheerfully aloof, not how well they can take orders or mix drinks)
Well... Since replicators exist bar staff probably don't really need those skills anymore.

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Originally Posted by Octopus Prime View Post
And everyone is sad, but they all seem to get over the death of their best friend pretty quickly. Which I suppose is sensible given the average mortality rate associated with working on the Enterprise.
"Personal Log: Holodeck just killed another one of my friends. Guess I'll have to start looking for a new one next time I'm off shift."
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  #7534  
Old 03-20-2016, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Octopus Prime View Post
Ensign Rougeblouse
Hey, it's that cadet from The First Duty, the Bajoran I told you to remember!

Writers on DS9 considered making her not having been killed, but captured and in a prison camp to be rescued or something, but nothing ever came of the idea.

Notspock is producer Jeri Taylor's son, and would go on to play another Vulcan with one letter off from his character's name in this episode. He's a Vulcan stuck on Voyager.
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  #7535  
Old 03-20-2016, 02:24 PM
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I assumed she was.

That or Starfleet has a real problem with cadets covering up for the accidental deaths of classmates.
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  #7536  
Old 03-20-2016, 03:42 PM
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So I'm nearly done with DS9 season 1 and, Duet guys, wow.

It's way stronger than everything else in the season, even TNG didn't have as strong an episode in its first season.
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  #7537  
Old 03-20-2016, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by TirMcDohl View Post
Notspock is producer Jeri Taylor's son, and would go on to play another Vulcan with one letter off from his character's name in this episode. He's a Vulcan stuck on Voyager.
Just assume he's the same character, and also that Tom Paris is the same guy from The First Duty. Because they would be if not for royalties.
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  #7538  
Old 03-21-2016, 08:17 AM
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Opted to skip ahead a bit and watched First Contact, my expectations were pretty high since it's supposed to be the Only Good TNG movie. and Generations wound up being about Malcolm Macdowell trying to dynamite his way into Heaven.

Anyhow, end result was a movie that felt like three or four episodes mushed together (including a really short version of Best of Both Worlds) and while they KIND OF fit, they kind of required... a lot of historical revisionism.

Anyhow, Picards having nightmares about his time as Locutus, which means that the Borg are fixin' to attack Earth again (suddenly, Picard and the Borg are like Harry Potter and Voldemort, I guess?) and everyone wants Picard to stay out since they figure his time as Locutus would make him go squirrely if confronted by them again. Which would KIND OF make sense except that there's been a bunch of Borg episodes since then and he's been fine about them. Maybe a little eager to kill 'em, but not over much. Anyhow, Picard defies his orders and the new Enterprise goes in and totally wrecks the Cube effortlessly, but the Cube breaks into a slightly smaller Borg Sphere and opens a SPace Hole to the past and assimilates Past Earth (this doesn't affect the Enterprise for reasons that nobody brings up. Not even a cursory crazy techno-babble explanation).

Anyhow, the Enterprise follows the Sphere into the past and finds it attacking late-20th Century Earth, shortly before the use of the first Warp Engine that let humans come in contact with aliens and start the Federation, expecting that assimilating primitive 21st Century Earth would be much easier then attacking Starfleet in the present, but the Enterprise blows up their ship so no biggy.

Half the crew goes down to Earth to help make sure that the Warp Ship gets built and launches on schedule and are surprised to find that one of the most important and influential people in human history is a loud drunken idiot. Like a surly Doc Brown.

The other half of the crew stays on the Enterprise, where the film suddenly decides to be Alien; since a whole bunch of Borg teleported over during the fight, when everyone was distracted and is working on converting the ship into a new Borg Cube. Picard tries to lead the non-assimilated crew into taking back the ship, but things go south (Borg can assimilate with a touch now, rather than extensive surgery, but, okay, they upgrade a lot, I can get that) and Data gets kidnapped and taken to their stronghold in the Spookiest Part of the new Enterprise. Picard, Worf and a Red Shirt all go off to try to disable the Borgs communication dish so they can't summon any reinforcements from the Borg in this time. Worf suggests blowing up the Enterprise to kill them and Picard freaks out, and then decides that thats a good idea after a talk with one of the past-humans.

Data, meanwhile, is going through a reverse-assimilation, having fleshy bits tacked on to his mighty robot body while the Borg Queen (the Borg have a queen, incidentally. Despite all evidence to the contrary throughout the entire series) tries to seduce him. Might just be personal preferences speaking here, but I'd say that a jaundiced albino Brett Spiner making out with a lady who looks like Robocop if he took off his helmet and drowned is among the least sexy things I've ever seen. Seems to work pretty good on Data, though.

Picard goes back to try to rescue Data by offering to turn back into Locutus as an exchange, but the Queen says "Nah, I like Data more then you anyway." and Data, as it turns out, really enjoyed making out with a corpse a lot more then he expected so he's firmly on Team Borg now. But it was actually a trick, he ruins the Borgs plan to stop the Warp Ship, and blows up some tanks of gas in the Spooky Part of the Enterprise, and the gas melts off all the fleshy bits on all the Borg which kills them (Picards fine, because he's acrobatic) and the Warpship goes off without a hitch, letting humans and Vulcans meet for the first time and the Enterprise heads back to the future, pleased at having saved the Earth and possibly did a slightly more-thorough-than-usual job of wiping out the Borg.

Doesn't really explain why the ship wasn't affected by the time jump, or why the Borg went back to THAT particular time and not earliar when it would have been simpler still to assimilate the Earth, or why, if the Borg had a queen, they needed Locutus, or what was so special about Hugh or Lore, or why Geordi has creepy contact lenses instead of his Visor, or why Crusher is blond...

But it DID give us Picard gunning down Borg with a tommygun he got from the Holodeck, so that's something
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  #7539  
Old 03-21-2016, 08:23 AM
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Well, it's not like they had time to slingshot around the sun so maybe that was as far back as they could go (the Enterprise is caught in whatever timey-wimey field the Sphere is generating at the start).
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  #7540  
Old 03-21-2016, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by SpoonyBardOL View Post
So I'm nearly done with DS9 season 1 and, Duet guys, wow.
The guy who played the Cardassian clerk/war criminal was veteran character actor Harris Yulin, who you have probably seen a million times on TV and in the movies. Most memorably -- "BURNED AT THE STAAAAAAAAKE!" -- he was the judge in the trial scene at the beginning of Ghostbusters II.
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  #7541  
Old 03-21-2016, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Octopus Prime View Post
And it's a Worf episode that has me dancing around shouting "Yaaay", so that's straight-up weird, that is.
I feel compelled to remind you that Brent Spiner's Wild West Tickle Trunk was in fact a Worf episode.

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Originally Posted by Octopus Prime View Post
(this doesn't affect the Enterprise for reasons that nobody brings up. Not even a cursory crazy techno-babble explanation)
Octo, watch the movie better! Like Mightyblue says, there absolutely was a cursory crazy techo-babble explanation. Something about the Enterprise being insulted from the changes by the wake of the temporal vortex that the sphere generated.

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Originally Posted by Octopus Prime View Post
But it DID give us Picard gunning down Borg with a tommygun he got from the Holodeck, so that's something
The holodeck has always been the deadliest thing on the ship, so it's about time that they weaponized it.
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  #7542  
Old 03-21-2016, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by JBear View Post
Octo, watch the movie better! Like Mightyblue says, there absolutely was a cursory crazy techo-babble explanation. Something about the Enterprise being insulted from the changes by the wake of the temporal vortex that the sphere generated.
Well, maybe if Yoshis Island wasn't also so danged compelling I would
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  #7543  
Old 03-21-2016, 10:31 AM
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Something about the Enterprise being insulted from the changes by the wake of the temporal vortex that the sphere generated.
And it was so angry that time decided to just work around it.
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  #7544  
Old 03-21-2016, 03:32 PM
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Aaaaand that's Season 1 of DS9 out of the way.

Huh, so Winn was utterly despicable right from the get-go? I mostly remember her actions from later in the series but I always thought she was someone who gradually become corrupt, I guess not!

Anyway, the finale was good. Not as good as Duet, but still better than much of the rest of the season. Maybe DS9 hits its stride faster than TNG did?

Not jumping into Season 2 just yet though, Daredevil's been calling to me.
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  #7545  
Old 03-21-2016, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Octopus Prime View Post
Data, meanwhile, is going through a reverse-assimilation, having fleshy bits tacked on to his mighty robot body while the Borg Queen (the Borg have a queen, incidentally. Despite all evidence to the contrary throughout the entire series) tries to seduce him. Might just be personal preferences speaking here, but I'd say that a jaundiced albino Brett Spiner making out with a lady who looks like Robocop if he took off his helmet and drowned is among the least sexy things I've ever seen. Seems to work pretty good on Data, though.
Yeah... I was never sure what to make of that whole thing. It's not one of the good aspects of the movie, anyway. I imagine a whiteboard with a list of ideas for the next Star Trek movie, and "Sexy Borg" is underlined.
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Maybe DS9 hits its stride faster than TNG did?
I guess it depends how you look at it - both of them get a lot better in their third season.
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  #7546  
Old 03-22-2016, 04:50 AM
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Thine Own Self was another fun one; Datas sent down to a primitive (say, Renaissance-era) planet checking out all the cool radiation found there, when Space Danger happens and he gets amnesia. And, just like every time that happened to Fred Flintstone he forgets that he's a robot who lives on a spaceship, and assumes he's a Yeti named "Jayden" who has come to trade rare, warm metals with the townspeople.

Logical enough.

Anyhow, since Data winds up spreading radioactive metals all over the town, the population wastes no time in becoming tremendously ill, and the locals assume that the hateful Ice Man from the Mountains has cursed them. They become further convinced that he's evil when one of them punches his face off and sees met underneath.

Data puts his Mighty Robot Brain to the test and discovers a) that Radiation exists, B) Radiation is dangerous for living things and C) how to cure cancer with easily concocted medical supplements dumped into the town well.

Good hustle, there, Data.

Anyhow, the townsfolk still don't trust him, and so they kill him and feel bad when they realize he's also cured them, and then the Enterprise comes back and fixes up Data and his amnesia.

Meanwhile, Troi is convinced she's be more useful in a command position then as an ineffectual psychiatrist, so she takes a test to prepare her for the rifles of command. She's given a test where the only way to win is to kill Geordi.

Masks is a weird one. Much like how Sub Rosa managed to ruin the idea of Crusher dealing with ghosts, Masks wrecked the simple joy of dealing with a Weird Space Thing. That's the franchises bread and butter! Anyhow, what looks like a comment is actually a giant space-library that some aliens shot into space hundreds of millions of years ago, and by getting close to it, it started taking over the Enterprise, turning it into a vaguely-mesoamerican-inspired city. Data gets multiple-personalities, each based on different people and figures from the culture and it's up to Picard and his Super Nerd Skills to figure out what all the hieroglyphs mean so that he can figure out a way to reverse the changes before the Enterprise... Err... Becomes an Aztec City? I guess?

It had Brett Spiner doing a lot of silly voices, at least?
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  #7547  
Old 03-22-2016, 05:00 AM
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So, how does Troi get out of her ripoff of the Kobayashi Maru
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  #7548  
Old 03-22-2016, 06:49 AM
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It was a secret test of character to see if she'd mind killing Geordi.

Between this and that part in Tapestry where the one hint that convinced Picard to abandon his new life was that he was subordinate to Geordi, and how frequently someone orders him to be best friends with someone he hates, I think Enterprise Command just doesn't really like him all that much.

I suppose he is the guy responsible for the Holodeck.
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  #7549  
Old 03-22-2016, 07:04 AM
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I'm late to this one but while I do enjoy First Contact, the idea of a Borg Queen is pretty dumb. It's a dumb thing. I know you wanted a big bad guy in your movie but (keeping in mind I've only seen scattered Borg eps) it seem to be that each one being # of # is that they are parts of a whole and don't do the whole leadership thing. I mean, I like it, but it is a dumb movie.

Also, they would never do this, but a weaponized holodeck would be the best thing ever. It's like a Green Lantern ring, except you can make all the Louis Pastuers with superhuman strength you want.
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  #7550  
Old 03-22-2016, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by SpoonyBardOL View Post
Huh, so Winn was utterly despicable right from the get-go? I mostly remember her actions from later in the series but I always thought she was someone who gradually become corrupt, I guess not!
She was always corrupt, but the writers worked to make her less cartoonishly evil as the series went on. You find out more about her motivations and how she thinks and can even feel sympathy for her sometimes. This is pretty well wrecked in the series finale arc, but a lot of things are, so...

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Originally Posted by Sanagi View Post
Yeah... I was never sure what to make of that whole thing. It's not one of the good aspects of the movie, anyway. I imagine a whiteboard with a list of ideas for the next Star Trek movie, and "Sexy Borg" is underlined.
Yeah, it's pretty clear the writers felt they needed to give their antagonist a personality - someone you could riff dialogue with and who could give voice to the villain's machinations. And that's sort of understandable despite the fact that the Borg work perfectly well as zombies (as Octo pointed out, that whole section on the Enterprise is an Alien-like horror movie). But to make her not only sexy, but using that sex appeal to seduce Data... just a bridge too far. Though it does give data that great line at the end.
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  #7551  
Old 03-22-2016, 08:38 AM
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So, how does Troi get out of her ripoff of the Kobayashi Maru
She orders Geordi to fix the microwave from the inside.

While it's on.
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  #7552  
Old 03-22-2016, 08:40 AM
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Even as a teenager, I thought that the Borg Queen was really, really stupid, for all of the reasons stated. It was the exact turning point where the Borg went from being cool to being terrible, and I decided that they'd mined all of the interesting stories out of them that they could. Which is why I found the latter half of Voyager exhausting. I remember finding out that they were going to add a sexy borg to the cast of Voyager (my mother saw it on Entertainment Tonight) and just giving out one big, long sigh.

That being said, I think I'd be remiss if I didn't take a moment to gush about First Contact. I don't know that it holds up particularly well, but I loved the shit out of that movie when I saw it in theatres. That amazing speech to Lily where Captain Picard smashes the display case is Patrick Stewart at his absolute finest, and the preceding scene where he confronts Worf is just so... loaded. I hang on that scene's every word no matter how many times I watch it. It just makes my blood run hot and cold all at once. There's so much history between those two characters, dripping off of and layering every word... I get emotional even just thinking about it. I can't even fucking think the lines without literally getting goosebumps running up my arms. I swear to god, they're there, right now as I type this:

"If you were any other man, I would kill you where you stand."

"Get off my bridge."

Also, it bears mentioning that the one thing that I remember most about First Contact is that it was the first time that it was cool to like Star Trek. They turned Star Trek into a big dumb action movie, yes, but people like big dumb action movies, so the next week all of the people at school suddenly liked Star Trek. It was pretty neat.
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  #7553  
Old 03-22-2016, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Octopus Prime View Post
They become further convinced that he's evil when one of them punches his face off and sees met underneath.
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  #7554  
Old 03-22-2016, 09:33 AM
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I don't know, the movie did more to make the Borg intimidating again after, like, almost every previous Borg episode did its damnedest to make them all pitiful.

And I could kind of accept the Queen it creating her was a result of the rest of the Borg responding to how well Locutus worked, and how badly they needed leadership after Lore ran the species into the ground, but they were pretty explicit that she'd been around all along and, like, nobody mentioned it. Or else must have deliberately lied about it.

Also, the whole First Contact thing for which the film was named was totally incidental to the plot, and far and away the thing I liked the most.
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  #7555  
Old 03-22-2016, 09:55 AM
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As always: I think First Contact works rather well considering how the script was basically pulled out of their ass after someone (Stewart?) noticed that it made much more sense for Picard to be on the ship fighting the Borg and Riker to be on the surface.

Quote:
I don't know, the movie did more to make the Borg intimidating again after, like, almost every previous Borg episode did its damnedest to make them all pitiful.
And then along comes Voyager....
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  #7556  
Old 03-22-2016, 10:12 AM
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Just think, they were going to set the film in the Renaissance before the producers realized how expensively stupid that would be.
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  #7557  
Old 03-22-2016, 10:14 AM
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Star Trek: Believe it or Not, We Actually Had Worse Ideas.
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  #7558  
Old 03-22-2016, 10:30 AM
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The more you look at First Contact's initial plans, and the outcomes of the other three TNG movies, the more it looks like it was just a lucky fluke that they didn't end up going 0 for 4.
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  #7559  
Old 03-22-2016, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Vaeran View Post
The more you look at First Contact's initial plans, and the outcomes of the other three TNG movies, the more it looks like it was just a lucky fluke that they didn't end up going 0 for 4.
I just want to say, again, that Generations' plot revolved around Malcolm McDowell trying to dynamite his way into Heaven.

That is, like, 90% of the way to being my Perfect Dream script.
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  #7560  
Old 03-22-2016, 12:05 PM
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On the other side of that, Picard's heaven is having Christmas everyday. This is the plot of most of the shittier Christmas specials. Also, evidence that he might secretly be a seven year old.

Also, if I remember right, Kirk's heaven is being a lonely cowboy. Star Trek writers are not really good at imagining things.
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