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  #2281  
Old 11-19-2017, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Büge View Post
I'm disappointed, but not surprised, that Steppenwolf looked like a generic Thanos ripoff and not dressed like the Sheriff of Nottingham and riding a cyborg dog.
I'm still surprised DC went with Steppenwolf as the villain for their great cinematic debut.
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  #2282  
Old 11-19-2017, 01:42 PM
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I'm pretty shocked too. I'm a pretty big New Gods/Kirby guy and I'd put Steppenwolf pretty far down the list of Darkseid minions, let alone Justice League antagonists. I assume that must date back to when this was Justice League Part 1, with Part 2 coming a year later. I assume then he was just a prelude to a full on Darkseid invasion. Once that plan was scrapped he either needed some kind of lieutenant; like the Female Furies, Kalibak, or Kanto; or to be made a lieutenant for someone like (assuming Darkseid is off the table) Virman Vundabar or Desaad. By himself he is just not enough.
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  #2283  
Old 11-19-2017, 01:53 PM
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Even if they were forced to stick with the d-list Apokalips villains, Mantis or Mokkari would have had more potential narrative heft as a Justice League villain.

Ideally, Glorious Godfrey, but that would have resulted in a pretty different kind of superhero movie.
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  #2284  
Old 11-19-2017, 02:57 PM
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I left Granny Goodness and Glorious Godfrey off my list of possible additions on purpose. Godfrey because adding him would have probably meant structural changes and Granny because I don't think the world is ready to see Superman punch out a rude Grandma.
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  #2285  
Old 11-19-2017, 04:42 PM
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I bet they could have just cribbed from the Superman Animated Series and done an Intergang + Kanto story to lead into the New Gods stuff.
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  #2286  
Old 11-19-2017, 04:48 PM
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I can guarantee Steppenwolf was chosen because of the N52 Earth 2 story. Guaranteed. Justice League really plays out like a combo of the first plot lines of N52 Justice League and Earth 2 put together.
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  #2287  
Old 11-19-2017, 09:30 PM
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I will print out and eat every criticism I've made of the DCEU if Batfleck ever, ever utters, in his most gravelly voice, the phrase "Granny Goodness and her Female Furies."

But yeah, WH is right. Steppin' Wolf was a major villain in the new Justice League comics origin, so it makes "sense" to pick him based on that. Unfortunately, I don't think the moviegoing public is exactly well-versed on The New 52 --hell, I read comics, but I've been mostly Marvel since 2011, so I didn't even know he existed until I saw a Comics Explained installment on YouTube that, well, explained the whole arc.
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  #2288  
Old 11-19-2017, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zef View Post
I will print out and eat every criticism I've made of the DCEU if Batfleck ever, ever utters, in his most gravelly voice, the phrase "Granny Goodness and her Female Furies."
I'm not saying I don't want that I don't want to see that; I very much do. The more Kirby the better, which is not my opinion but an objective fact.

Quote:
But yeah, WH is right. Steppin' Wolf was a major villain in the new Justice League comics origin, so it makes "sense" to pick him based on that. Unfortunately, I don't think the moviegoing public is exactly well-versed on The New 52 --hell, I read comics, but I've been mostly Marvel since 2011, so I didn't even know he existed until I saw a Comics Explained installment on YouTube that, well, explained the whole arc.
Earth 2, because I read all of New 52 Justice League and I'm not sure that Steppenwolf even appeared in the Darkseid War story. I dropped Earth 2 book after a year or so when it was just making me mad that it wasn't JSA, and I don't remember anything with Steppenwolf before then. WB had a bit of a problem because the Justice League has no good, or at least movie ready, origin story. This was mostly the New 52 origin with as much of the New Gods stuff sanded off as possible. No Darkseid or brief trip to Apocalypse to save Superman. Also, no Superman smashing parademons with a bus or Aquaman sicking the fattest sharks on them.

I still think it would have been better if Steppenwolf had revived Superman in an attempt to conquer the Earth and Batman brought Lois to help Clark remember himself instead of Batman coming up with a cockamamie mad science scheme that works and has no negative repercussions outside of ten minutes of brought-back-to-life confusion.
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  #2289  
Old 11-19-2017, 10:01 PM
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I just want to know if they play Steppenwolf at any point while Steppenwolf is on screen.
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  #2290  
Old 11-19-2017, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Excitemike View Post
I just want to know if they play Steppenwolf at any point while Steppenwolf is on screen.
That would only serve to confuse me even more. And if he starts reading the novel during that scene then it will only get worse.

...

Wait... Do you mean the song or a song by the band?
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  #2291  
Old 11-20-2017, 09:55 AM
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Honestly, the fact that no one knows anything nor cares about Steppenwolf makes him a fine choice for a lead-in to Darkseid and his better known and defined minions like Granny Goodness, Desaad and Glorious Godfried. The problem (as usual in the DCEU) is in the execution - he's an utterly generic "destroy the world" badguy with a plan, now that I think about it, eerily similar to Zod's from Man of Steel. The Marvel movies have proved that a boring villain isn't necessarily the WORST thing, but Steppenwolf is easily as bad as Malekith (Thor 2) in that regard. Plus he's entirely made of distractingly-bad CG, which... like, why? He's just a guy! Even the Scorpion King had a better excuse than this.
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  #2292  
Old 11-20-2017, 10:14 AM
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That's the thing though, aren't like 90% of the DCEU movies all filmed largely as green screen with the only real location shots being the non-action character bits? A lot of what makes Marvel movies work is that a lot of them blend tons of practical effects into their CGI stuff, which helps avoid the 'dark and rainy' problem a lot of CGI heavy pictures face. So they look much more realistic, despite most of what's going on in the frame being CGI and post-prod augments.

Which I guess doesn't surprise me, since it's Disney and they have ILM at their beck and call, but every time I see a clip from BVS or JL it looks just like the third Matrix movie from a decade ago.
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  #2293  
Old 11-20-2017, 10:31 AM
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Yeah, one of the downsides of filming over green screen, as I understand, is you lose a lot of color contrast. Even a lot of Marvel movies with the sort of "concrete" color balance they have used appear more vibrant than DCEU endgame setpieces.
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  #2294  
Old 11-20-2017, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rascally Badger View Post
Earth 2, because I read all of New 52 Justice League and I'm not sure that Steppenwolf even appeared in the Darkseid War story. I dropped Earth 2 book after a year or so when it was just making me mad that it wasn't JSA, and I don't remember anything with Steppenwolf before then. WB had a bit of a problem because the Justice League has no good, or at least movie ready, origin story. This was mostly the New 52 origin with as much of the New Gods stuff sanded off as possible. No Darkseid or brief trip to Apocalypse to save Superman. Also, no Superman smashing parademons with a bus or Aquaman sicking the fattest sharks on them.
It's the N52 JL story in so much that it begins in the same way, and the threat is more or less the exact same, just sub Steppenwolf in for Darkseid. Bats gets hit by a random parademon, the same happens to others, they track motherboxes, and they use it as an excuse to band together really fast to fend off the advance guard of an invasion.

It's Earth 2 however, because that comic is more or less the same scenario occurs (the story ofwhich began pretty much directly after you dropped it), except Steppenwolf is initially in charge of this invasion. It's ironic then, that your suggestion for how it should have gone down, is exactly what happened in Earth 2. In Earth 2, Superman was thought to have died during the first expulsion of Apocalypse. But what really happened was that Steppenwolf captured him and later unleashed a brainwashed clone (Bizarro) to take over Earth 2 a second time. Then IIRC Bizarro Supes karate chops Steppenwolf's head in half. All of this would have been pretty good stuff for a JL movie. Well, up until Earth 2 turned to shit when the writers decided it would be more interesting to let Apocalypse win, letting Earth 2 get turned into the new Apocalypse.
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  #2295  
Old 11-20-2017, 03:53 PM
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$96 million. Woof.
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  #2296  
Old 11-20-2017, 04:00 PM
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$96 million. Woof.
Will they end it? reboot this reboot with Flashpoint? Give up entirely?

Theoretically overseas could float this, but who knows.
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  #2297  
Old 11-20-2017, 04:05 PM
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Scuttlebutt had production budget around $300 mil, with maybe another couple hundred mil in advertising on top.

Maybe?
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  #2298  
Old 11-20-2017, 05:05 PM
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Yeah this wasn’t just a must-win, this needed to set records. Fuck
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  #2299  
Old 11-20-2017, 05:17 PM
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It was looking for a while like these movies were critic-proof and zeitgeist-proof after Man of Steel, BvS, and Suicide Squad. But apparently you still can only make movies almost everybody hates for so long before even comic blockbuster audiences eventually begin to notice they don't actually have to watch every one of these things.

(I'm a monster who actually likes BvS more than most Marvel movies. Just talking about conventional wisdom, not my personal assessment...)
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  #2300  
Old 11-20-2017, 05:20 PM
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If your movie needs to make a billion worldwide to break even, you've likely already lost.

I doubt they reboot. At least, not any more so than they've already planned to after readjusting after BvS and putting a bunch of nonsense movies into production. They might not pay off that post-credits scene and I really don't think we'll see Snyder back, but we'll see Wonder Woman 2 and Aquaman is already nearly in the bag. Reeves will get to make his Batman movie.
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  #2301  
Old 11-20-2017, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estragon View Post
It was looking for a while like these movies were critic-proof and zeitgeist-proof after Man of Steel, BvS, and Suicide Squad. But apparently you still can only make movies almost everybody hates for so long before even comic blockbuster audiences eventually begin to notice they don't actually have to watch every one of these things.

(I'm a monster who actually likes BvS more than most Marvel movies. Just talking about conventional wisdom, not my personal assessment...)
My personal DC ratings by me, a fan.

1. Man Of Steel
2. Wonder Woman
3. BvS
4. Suicide Jai
5. JL

JL is the weakest despite fun casting, if only because it Marvels the most, same strength and weaknesses as those. I prefered the Sturm and Drang f Snyder, the hot Jai mess of Suicide and WW is beyond reproach.
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  #2302  
Old 11-20-2017, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Rascally Badger View Post
I doubt they reboot.
They'll just put it on ice!

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  #2303  
Old 11-21-2017, 10:58 AM
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Part 2, of now 3.

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  #2304  
Old 11-21-2017, 02:03 PM
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The irony that this project is becoming bloated and out of control is not lost on me.
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  #2305  
Old 11-21-2017, 02:12 PM
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As much as I love MovieBob's analysis, he... probably needs to edit himself.

Then again, he himself admitted that his Pixels review drew in a lot of new followers because of its bile, so I can't quite blame him for milking this cow for all it is worth.
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  #2306  
Old 11-21-2017, 02:19 PM
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We all just want engagement.
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  #2307  
Old 11-21-2017, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Büge View Post
The irony that this project is becoming bloated and out of control is not lost on me.
It's kinda like how the pizza roll serial killer bits in that first Red Letter Media thing were funny, because the joke was that only a crazy sick fuck would edit together 90 minutes of obsessively nitpicking a movie they hated, and then success killed both the gimmick and the joke.
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  #2308  
Old 11-21-2017, 02:48 PM
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So it goes with Faustian bargains.
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  #2309  
Old 11-21-2017, 03:47 PM
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For what it's worth, I undertand his desire to be thorough. And I'm learning a lot about film structure.
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  #2310  
Old 11-28-2017, 07:57 AM
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I saw it on the cheap thanks to moviepass, but I thought Justice League was actually pretty good? JL is always kind of a hard team up to write, they're all a bit too important for their own good vs. the avengers that are all kind of nobodies in comparison aside from T.G. Cid Thor.

JL had some thrilling moments: the chase scene in this for the box with the amazons wasn't trash like the batmobile chase in BVS was. Additionally, all the characters ranged from 'good enough' to 'fun'. Steppenwolf wasn't as unremarkable as I was anticipating from what everyone said, I liked his speech about making everyone love him. There were a lot of story beats that were just really bizarre and with the Elfman score, I did kind of find myself wishing that a young Burton was at the helm...

I'm normally so against the over 2 hours long thing, but I felt the film actually could've benefited from another 15 minutes of run time to really cement Cyborg as something other than a plot device. Maybe they could trade off some time with batman to achieve it. When Steppenwolf rips him apart at the end, that should be really emotional. I've read that the original cut has it a certain way, but let's face it when it comes to the DC stuff, EVERYTHING is 'in the alternate cut!'.

However, I am definitely sick of the extreme color grading in these films, it made the abundant CGI a lot more palatable, but I'm ready for these films to start looking less like this and more like Wonder Woman.

Also with the credits scene: it's laughable that Lex thinks he can create anything that stands up to Superman alone, nevermind the rest of the JL.
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