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Old 07-13-2015, 02:54 AM
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Default X-Men thread of Snikt Bub Jean Ruby Quartz Visor Body and Soul Focused Totality

Guess what I love? It's the X-Men.

X-Men is possibly the most convoluted long-running narrative in comics. I don't know. How many years now without a continuity reset? How many of those years actually worth reading? God knows, but I love 'em. This is the thread to discuss which X-Mens are good, to slag off the ones that are bad, to discuss your experience of X-Men and who's your favourite and all that forum stuff we do.

I've always rather liked the series, though my exposure to the actual comics was, as a kid, very limited. I had a few paperbacks that contained some random stories, mostly team-ups, but I also got a dose of insanity with these two Wildways/Mojo stories I had and loved. I later learned these were reviled, but those crazy spiritual Mojo/Spiral New Mutants/X-Men comics RANG MY BELL.

I didn't get reading again until I picked up a random issue of the UK reprint title "Essential X-Men" (76-100 page digest comic, reprinting 4 or 5 US comics for £3.50) as something to read on holiday. It was a complete, contained little mini-arc about the X-Mens going to space and bringing back a little tame baby Brood, and I kinda dug it. Had no idea what the hell was going on; why is Kitty Pryde intangible? What is S.W.O.R.D, etc? But it was enough to keep me reading, and next up was Schism and the Kieron Gillen run, and those kept me as a fan.

I'm not entirely fond of Bendis' X-Men, it started very strong but he doesn't seem to know what he's doing. We've just reached "The Trial of Jean Grey" over here and it is very difficult to muster interest.

I'm also reading the early-ish Essential X-Men trades (yes, they have the same name as the digest) - big, b/w archives with around 30 issues apiece at a low price. Claremont's stuff is fascinating, especially Essential vol 2 - it's just classic after classic, introducing new characters and elements that will stick around for close to 50 years.

X-MEN. Talk about how good/bad it is. I'm terrible at opening posts. (Reader's voice: And all subsequent posts, har har!)

Edit: "The podcast Rachel and Miles X-Plain the X-Men" is a rather enjoyable little overview of the whole series, nicely digestible. I'm not too fond of the hosts' frequent diversions into really shitty nerd humour and catchphrases ("That'd make a good band name" "Yes. Yes it would.") but they do a good job.
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Old 07-13-2015, 07:15 AM
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I have a weird fondness for the X-Men, even though I've only read the really early Silver Age stuff and a few random issues here and there. But I watched the 90s cartoon and then Evolution when I was a kid and those combined with the movies made me really enjoy the characters. Now that I have Rachel and Miles, I get to enjoy the X-Men without ever having to read the comics.
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Old 07-13-2015, 07:30 AM
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The first few years of the Claremont run (say, from Giant Size #1 until the end of DoFP) are consistantly rock-solid and have some of the absolute best arcs of the series.

If I were to pick one single stand-alone issue to be my favorite, it would be Demon (#143, fitting in riiiight between Dark Phoenix and DoFP), in which Kitty Pryde is left alone in the Mansion because everyone's left for Christmas (because Xavier is a jerk) and is promptly attacked by one of the N'astirth demons that were imprisoned in the mansions backyard, in an issue-long homage to Alien.

So what we have is Kitty, a child, whose only powers are not only purely defensive in nature, but completely ineffective in this case, being forced to rely on her own quick thinking to stop an enemy that would wipe the floor with most any superhero you could name. She eventually wins when she realizes, in a bit of genre-savviness, that since this whole situation is like Alien, the solution is to do what worked in that movie.

It's a single issue, full of tense action and is a perfect sapsule wfor why so many people like Kitty Pryde as a character, and how much of a jerk Professor X is. And that the X-Men have demons haunting their backyard and nobody really ever worries too much about that.
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Old 07-13-2015, 07:40 AM
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I don't regularly read any more but Grant Morrison's and Joss Whedon's runs work pretty well as stand alone, even though the continuity of Morrison's run after he left is a mess (the most jarring case is with the character of Xorn but Ernst was messed with too, unfortunately).

I love the X-Men but it's been a long time since I read most X-books. Part of me wants to go back to read the Ed Brubaker and Mike Carey runs and catch up from their but that is a pretty monumental task. Part of me also wishes they would do what they did with Spider-Man: rather than a bunch of different X-Men series, it could be an almost weekly series by a braintrust of cool writers and artists. And yes, I know different X-Men series have different teams, but maybe it's time for the schism to end and have a huge team (or at least community) a la the Legion of Superheroes.
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Old 07-13-2015, 08:05 AM
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I was pulled into X-Men because I loved the Saturday morning cartoon in the 1990s, and my mind was blown when I heard about how Magneto pulled out Wolverine's claws in Fatal Attractions. I was sucked in by the tail end of that crossover, and was fully bought in, eventually reading basically every X-Book and spinoff until Onslaught.

I remember seeing the promotional art for Onslaught in Wizard when I was 12 or 13 years old. The article (or just promotional copy? I forget--not that there was a big difference with Wizard) was making a big deal about his mysterious identity. I looked at the picture and thought, "That looks like Professor X in a Magneto costume. If this big mysterious secret is just Professor X turned evil by the time when he shut off Magneto's brain, I am going to be really disappointed, because I can tell that by looking at the promo art." So, I was really disappointed.

Onslaught marked the turning point when even as a tween the heavy handedness of crossover marketing was just too obvious. I slowly pared back until I stopped reading serialized comics with no planned endings altogether sometime after Zero Tolerance. After that, I learned to read comics primarily for their creative team, not to chase a new hit of continuity/canon.

I still like the X-Men though, and I will pick up a good TPB when I hear something works as a self-contained unit. Obviously Morrison's run is amazing. It's my favorite X-Men story of all time.

I recently reread the X-Statix omnibus and found it did not hold up as well as I hoped, other than the art, which is glorious retro-silver age. Pretty much the first few issues of X-Force that transition into X-Statix are worth reading, but after that it basically just treads thematic water for a long, long time. I would avoid it.

I enjoyed the first two thick collections of PAD's Multiple Man miniseries and the new X-Factor series that followed it, although it seems they won't release any more of that series in big TPBs, which is too bad. I guess I could get the thin ones, but...

I'm excited to pick up Daily Show head writer and Flop House podcast host Elliott Kalan's Spider Man and the X-Men when it comes out. It's basically guaranteed to be charming and funny, and I liked the screen shots of it that I show floating online.

I kind of wish there was a Chris Bachalo Generation X omnibus? I wonder if that would hold up at all storywise, but I bet the art would still be great. (The deterioration of that series once the new writing/art team took over was another big wakeup call to me to quit caring about continuity and only read comics for creators.)

Recently I've been debating whether to give Whedon's run a go. It's apparently a sequel of sorts to the Morrison run, but I like Morrison's writing about a million times more than Whedon, so it might just disappoint me...

Last edited by estragon; 07-13-2015 at 08:18 AM.
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  #6  
Old 07-13-2015, 09:47 AM
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It sequels some elements (unintentionally in a way that messes with a tiny bit of continuity in the third story) but it really stands out on it's own. I definitely recommend it.

Generation X was a favorite of mine when I was a teen, but recently I read an old issue. Great artwork (the sweet spot when Bachalo was getting more out there but wasn't so chaotic that it hurt my eyes to look at it) but the story (which was supposed to tie in with Onslaught I think but the thrust was that the kids were being hidden away until the whole thing blew over) was a bit weak.

Completely agree about Milligan's X-Force/X-Statix. I loved the book, but around the Princess Di story that wasn't, it began to feel really directionless. The last issue I found interesting was the one where it turned out that El Guapo was in an abusive relationship with his flying skateboard (I love when comics give me the opportunity to type sentences like that) but then he gets offed in the next haphazard story arc. Still, Allred's art is always good (glad to see he's still working with Marvel).
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  #7  
Old 07-13-2015, 11:03 AM
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The best X-man is/was Longshot.
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Old 07-13-2015, 11:20 AM
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Is it true that the 90s cartoon was mostly a who's-who of stories written during the 70s and 80s? Because I tried picking up an X-Men comic book back when the cartoon was new and it must have been right in the middle of the Dark Age of comic books, since it was boring as shit and the art was way the hell overblown like 90s comics were at the time. I think Wolverine was in the middle of a Sentinel factory or something and he was doing nothing but walking around spouting exposition and recounting events involving characters I'd never heard of.
These days Marvel is a lot more tightly focused, so I guess kids don't run into that anymore, but hot damn I would have way rather been reading comics that lined up with the show.
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  #9  
Old 07-13-2015, 11:41 AM
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The 90s cartoon is the 90s X-Men team, but they pretty quickly start telling stories from the 80s, marginally adjusted for the different team set up.

I used to be all about the X-Men, but after reading Morrison's and Whedon's stuff I simply haven't felt the need to read any more X-Men.
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Old 07-13-2015, 12:28 PM
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The 90s cartoon adaptation of the Dark Phoenix saga was astonishingly faithful, except that the body-count dropped to zero. Which really made the fact that everyone wanted to kill Jean seem... disproportionate.
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Old 07-13-2015, 02:43 PM
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I don't know how much you guys know about the X-Men (I'm an X-pert)...

I'm sorry, I'm so, so sorry.
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Old 07-13-2015, 07:59 PM
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Chris Sims once wrote about how Marvel's Silver Age was essentially a synthesis of things that had come before: superhero comics, monster comics, and romance comics. Out of all the Marvel books, X-Men was probably the purest distillation of those elements.
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Old 07-13-2015, 08:30 PM
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My oldest brother got me hooked on X-Men as a kid and I started buying them for myself around 260 or so and I stopped around X-Force 20 something. The New Mutants is my favorite X-Men related thing and all of Claremont's stuff is really solid.

Also, I started penning an X-Men screenplay when I was in college but I never showed it to anyone because it was bad and really embarrassing
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Old 01-04-2016, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Büge View Post
Chris Sims once wrote about how Marvel's Silver Age was essentially a synthesis of things that had come before: superhero comics, monster comics, and romance comics. Out of all the Marvel books, X-Men was probably the purest distillation of those elements.
I realize I'm responding to a month's old post but, Fantastic Four, dude. X-Men was just a weak copy of it until the Claremont/Cockrum/Byrne run of stories made the franchise.

Anyway, I dug out my old issues of New Mutants while I was visiting my parents, just for that sweet Sienkiewicz art. It's weird they gave him as much free reign over his style as they did, considering the general sterility of 80s Marvel.
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Old 07-15-2015, 11:13 AM
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Sorry sugah!
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Old 10-15-2015, 09:33 PM
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Apparently Fox is going to make two X-Men TV shows, one about the Hellfire Club and the other about Legacy?

Hmmm.

I wonder if this will be the DC model of with distinct universes for TV and movies or the Marvel Studios model of "the TV shows can't do anything too important because they share a continuity with the movies."

edit:

oh wait

i just remembered that the continuity in the X-Men movies is so inconsistent from one movie to the next that there is probably no significant difference between the DC approach and the Marvel approach in this situation

Last edited by estragon; 10-15-2015 at 10:04 PM.
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  #17  
Old 10-16-2015, 12:49 AM
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I was going to make a joke about how an inconsistent continuity would make this more faithful to the comics, but I found that to be a) too easy a joke and b) too depressing for a former continuity nerd like me
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Old 10-16-2015, 07:05 AM
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The only potentially decent thing of this announcement is the fact that Kevin Bacon is doing TV shows these days. Otherwise the subject matter is just as baffling as when they though Generation X was a good choice for a TV show in the 90s.
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Old 10-16-2015, 07:19 AM
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I think he subject matter is okay.

I can potentially see the Hellfire Club as an interesting standalone show. A secret society of rich people with super powers is an interesting premise for a show. I think this has a good chance of at least being mediocre.

If they're doing Legion, presumably they want to do something based on the X-Men:Legacy run that was pretty critically successful. This seems like it has a higher chance of failure, but also the potential to be really amazing if they get the right show runners.
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Old 10-16-2015, 07:30 AM
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The Hellfire Club itself was based on the 1960s British Avengers show, wasn't it? So it's got TV roots.
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Old 10-16-2015, 07:40 AM
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The only interesting Hellfire storyline from the comics as far as I'm concerned is Dark Phoenix and they're obviously not going to touch that one.

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Old 10-17-2015, 09:08 AM
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What part of the Gotham watching experience would make you think the people responsible are in their right minds?
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  #23  
Old 10-17-2015, 09:12 AM
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I haven't seen it
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  #24  
Old 10-17-2015, 11:15 AM
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Well, Arrow is doing quite well for itself by being Batman without Batman and is frequently so captivatingly stupid that people want to tune in just to see what dumb thing is going to happen next.

Gotham simply doubled down on all of that.
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Old 10-17-2015, 11:18 AM
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Arrow at least has a Batman substitute. You are tuning in each week to the see the adventures of I Can't Believe its Not Batman.
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Old 10-17-2015, 01:19 PM
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Watching Gotham is like when you need to sneeze, and you feel a sneeze building up, and you prepare yourself to sneeze, and then nothing happens.

In this case, Batman is saying "atchoo"
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Old 10-17-2015, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rascally Badger View Post
I Can't Believe its Not Batman.
I would watch a show called this. Gotham didn't do it for me. It just wasn't the same kind of enjoyable stupid I got from Arrow.
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  #28  
Old 01-04-2016, 02:18 AM
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You've got some gold right there. And some utter, utter shite.
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  #29  
Old 04-26-2016, 07:17 AM
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What is that comic
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Old 04-26-2016, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
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What is that comic
Hitman
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