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  #421  
Old 02-10-2019, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ShakeWell View Post
I don't know, maybe it's me, but I've been playing both III and Hard Corps since their original releases and while I've managed to beat III on Hard, I've never gotten the best ending in Hard Corps.

But I will agree that Shattered Soldier is the hardest of all of them, mostly due to progression being gated by memorizing the levels. Sure, you can reflex your way to the end of each stage, but if you didn't blow up all the bafmodads on that wall on your way there, you can't see the final stages. And yet... I still like Shattered Soldier? A former friend and I were pretty obsessed when it came out and we managed to get to, I think, the 2nd to last stage in co-op (which is even harder, because both of you have to perform flawlessly), but that end run is just too damn much. (Also, as I've said before, literally no one on earth cares about the larger Contra meta-narrative, but I'm still a little ticked that they turned Lance Bean into the bad guy.)

EDIT: This reminds me of another unpopular (outside of this forum, anyways) opinion I have - I love hard games, but easy modes and accessibility are good, actually, and the notion that someone could make it through Contra without throwing their controller against a wall would not take away from the largely-worthless pride I have in my ability to crack it wide open without using the code or continuing (or even losing a life, on a good day).
Hey, *I* cared about the larger meta-narrative of Contra...

...once I discovered there was one.

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Capcom does a much better job of putting its old games on new systems than most devs do, but I really do wish that Capcom would do a better job of curating its games library when it comes to the older 3D stuff. Dino Crisis and the PSone era Resident Evil games deserve to be on all the modern consoles just as much as the Devil May Cry games and every major RE game from the Dreamcast onwards do.

My wish for a Dino Crisis remake or reboot is not just 'cuz I think the game would be awesome in RE Engine, but also because, like Onimusha (which I bought the remaster of 'cuz I want more remasters), I just want Capcom to acknowledge the series' existence at all.
Maximo HD Collection.

Do it, Capcom.

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Originally Posted by FelixSH View Post
Metroid (NES) is not only a fascinating game, but it also is not replaced by Zero Mission. ZM is great in itself, but it changes the atmosphere completely.

The NES game throws you into this alien, antagonistic world, and that the game came out during a time when games where in general crushingly hard, only helped that feeling. The background is just this black void, everything is weird and frightening, Samus is absurdly weak, and you have no orientation, except for your sense of direction and a handdrawn map. You are out of your depth, and the game tries to make you feel that as hard as possible. I love especially the black background, it alone makes this game feel sci-fi and creepy to me in a way few other games do. Partly it's just that I love seeing space. It's one of the reasons why I love Star Trek so much.

Anyway, ZM really only takes the general structure. It might follow the progression and use the same basic map (I don't know, it's just what I read about it), but everything is more colorful and cartoony. The player is spoiled by such absurd things as a minimap, saving instead of a password and not having to farm for health upon death. It's a way more welcoming game, but it loses the sense of pure antagonism against the player. It feels sterilized, I think. I don't mean this as a critic against the game, I'm just not sure what other word I could use. It makes the game more accessible, and it feels way closer to Super Metroid than to the NES game.

I love both games, but I think I like the NES game more, just because it feels more like one of a kind.

-------------------------

When I'm at it, a related point about gaming in general is that games don't have to be fun, or relaxing, or welcoming, or whatever (which probably isn't an unpopular opinion here, but I feel it still is in general. They don't have to be anything. Metroid (NES) feels antagonistic against the player, and I love it for that. Castlevania is not for me, but it feels like it makes Simon deliberately hard to control, which feeds into what the game tries to do. Some games deal with harsh themes like suicide, and are all the more rich for it, even if they don't give me the cozy feel of a Kirby game. SaGa games are deliberately different from standard JRPGs, and are all the more fascinating and interesting for it. The list goes on.

As there is now such an insane amount of games, just from the genres I like, that I will never be able to experience them all (and this doesn't even take into account that I also need time for books, movies, and of course stuff outside of media like friends). Games should try to reach a small audience who loves weird, alienating experiences, even if these experiences turn off 99% of all players (only if that is what they want to do, of course). There is more than enough for everyone now.
On the point of save files versus passwords, don't forget the NES game originally used save files in Japan, just like Zelda.

-----

On Wizards & Warriors, I really do love the original. Plus, it reminds me of my mom -- as I recall, she was the one who wanted it, and I remember riding with my dad to Sky City (I think) one evening to get it. Think I wound up enjoying it more over the years, though.

And it was cool when Kuros appeared on Video Power as part of the Power Team.

Ironsword was a bit tough for me, but I liked the "assemble the sword" aspect. I had this one toy sword that was comprised of three pieces, and sometimes I'd pretend I was gathering the pieces to form the Ironsword.

I really wish that WayForward or someone would create either a remake of the original game or a sequel.
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  #422  
Old 02-10-2019, 06:33 PM
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Resident Evil--the 1996 game--exists in a sort of liminal and contradictory space between universal recognition and revisionist preferentiality. It's often invoked on the strength of its humorous qualities--mockingly, but with a sense of kitschy endearment informed by nostalgia--through almost reflexive recitations and impressions of its famous dialogue scenes, down to mimetic reproductions of its voice actors's very cadence and intonation in the lines they recorded so long ago. It's inextricable from the game's reputation, and the developers play up and into the infamy, as countless Capcom games--within or without the series--wink and nod towards the collected aphorisms and proverbs of Barry Burton and others. This affection towards its memetic aspects is emblematic of how the game has been perceived in hindsight--recognized as a trailblazer, but as a thing best left to fond memories outside of the easily isolatable elements to be riffed on into perpetuity. The situation is exacerbated by Resident Evil having been remade in 2002 for the GameCube, and it is this version, through its comparative modernity, deep elaboration on the original and ultimately, thorough excellence, that lives in the minds and hearts of Capcom and players alike as the game to return to should they want to revisit the Spencer Mansion once more, or venture into the Arklay Mountains for the first time outright. This has been accomplished through a combination of lopsided availability between versions (the GameCube remake has been more consistently ported and kept in contemporary circulation) as well as the longstanding and distressing forward-facing that video games as a medium and an industry are plagued by, habitually disregarding and dismissing its past and history if a more acceptably modern option exists. Why chance it with an antiquated relic that's only good for a laugh?
In a lot of ways, the original version of Resident Evil is the platonic ideal of a great horror experience: some of the dialogue and performances are worthy of a chuckle (and I will say, my friends and I were riffing on "Master of Unlocking" and "Jill Sandwich" more or less immediately), but there are moments that are scary (or were, before I knew the game front-and-back), not just jump scares of the dogs jumping through the window, though that did scare the bejeezus out of me the first time, but moments of genuine dread. I have said before that I have a soft spot for the original Resident Evil, even with the REmake existing, because it was the first PS1 game I ever owned. I was on the hype train so much, that when my parents bought us a PS1, I told them I didn't want a game right away, because I wanted Resident Evil when it came out. (My sister, ever the exemplar of great taste, picked Twisted Metal for her game, and still has her longbox copy of it. I had to re-buy a longbox of RE1 years later, because I dumped it in favor of Director's Cut later on.)

Also? Possible unpopular opinion here, but Deadly Silence, aside from its flatulent title, is probably the 2nd best way to play RE1 after REmake.

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Originally Posted by LBD_Nytetrayn View Post
Maximo HD Collection.

Do it, Capcom.
DO IT, COWARDS.

Last edited by ShakeWell; 02-10-2019 at 07:00 PM.
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  #423  
Old 02-10-2019, 06:56 PM
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Deadly Silence is really good. Niceties like a constant map display, skippable room transitions, subtitled dialogue, quick-turn and contextual knife button all add up to change the impression the game gives by a lot, ridding it of some of its perceived antiquity. The Rebirth mode additions like altered puzzles and knife battles are interesting too.

I can't really separate my feelings about the game from my personal history with it, either. The layout of the Spencer Mansion is as familiar to me as the real-life buildings I frequent; the introduction of the first zombie made me crawl under a table to hide when I was little; it was a communal game that me and my siblings all loved and played together. All of that stands not just as fond incidental nostalgia but as record and empirical proof of its hopefully discussed merits.
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  #424  
Old 02-10-2019, 07:00 PM
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Also, here's weird thing that I think influences my opinion: I had a friend with a 3DO at the time, so I had actually played Alone in the Dark before RE, and while it's very popular for people to "well, actually" when talking about Resident Evil and its influence, it felt leaps and bounds ahead of AitD, even at the time. To a borderline embarrassing extent. I think this is evidenced by the fact that RE (at least the Director's Cut, though I can still clear the original US release) is still very playable, and going back to AitD is really rough.
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  #425  
Old 02-10-2019, 07:14 PM
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Speaking of Resident Evil and its influence, I really hope we'll be seeing an awesome Peklo post about Sweet Home in the near future. Resident Evil did start off initially as a pitch for a remake of that li'l Japanese horror movie RPG before it very much became its own entity.
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  #426  
Old 02-10-2019, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ShakeWell View Post
Also, here's weird thing that I think influences my opinion: I had a friend with a 3DO at the time, so I had actually played Alone in the Dark before RE, and while it's very popular for people to "well, actually" when talking about Resident Evil and its influence, it felt leaps and bounds ahead of AitD, even at the time. To a borderline embarrassing extent. I think this is evidenced by the fact that RE (at least the Director's Cut, though I can still clear the original US release) is still very playable, and going back to AitD is really rough.
AitD is the missing link between a Sierra adventure game and Resident Evil, but if the discussion is in actual influence it's safe to say the most AitD was influencing was stuff like Doctor Hauzer.

I'll also stick up for Deadly Science as friendly enough to be one of the better introductions to classic style RE for a new player if you just want to get both a perspective on the history while having the most convenient possible version, which isn't a bad position to be in for one of the most important games ever.
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  #427  
Old 02-10-2019, 07:58 PM
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It's probably already been said in this thread, but Metroid Fusion is a fantastic game.
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  #428  
Old 02-10-2019, 08:28 PM
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It's probably already been said in this thread, but Metroid Fusion is a fantastic game.
Yep. I don't know that I've played many games that fill you with dread as much as the SA-X parasite. I know popular opinion has turned against it these days, but I don't care about the periods of linearity; the game still plays really well.
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  #429  
Old 02-10-2019, 10:19 PM
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The second generation of game consoles is very much underappreciated.
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  #430  
Old 02-11-2019, 03:13 AM
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It's probably already been said in this thread, but Metroid Fusion is a fantastic game.
Yes, and the story gives it a feeling of creeping dread that no other Metroid has managed.
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  #431  
Old 02-11-2019, 03:28 AM
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The second generation of game consoles is very much underappreciated.
What do you mean by second generation?

I always took it to mean the NES/SMS era.
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  #432  
Old 02-11-2019, 04:59 AM
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I have to admit that, like most, the REMake has largely supplanted the original game in my head (in fact, it's my favourite RE game), but in many ways the original was my introduction to horror as a genre (since I'd always shied away from horror movies), so that formative part will always uniquely belong to the original for me. The REMake will always be what I think of first when I picture "Resident Evil", but I when I picture "being scared by a video game", tensely waiting as a primitive CG door slowly opens, meeting my first Hunter after watching the cutscene put it right behind me, and clutching my cousin in shared terror when that first fucking dog jumped through that window will never be supplanted.

Last edited by JBear; 02-11-2019 at 10:00 AM.
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  #433  
Old 02-11-2019, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by ShakeWell View Post
EDIT: This reminds me of another unpopular (outside of this forum, anyways) opinion I have - I love hard games, but easy modes and accessibility are good, actually, and the notion that someone could make it through Contra without throwing their controller against a wall would not take away from the largely-worthless pride I have in my ability to crack it wide open without using the code or continuing (or even losing a life, on a good day).
Yes. I remember reading a post a long while ago by an infamous game blogger about difficulty and accessibility that really rankled but also stuck with me (he was against games being "easy"). I got the sense that for some folks, building raw skill is the only important element of a game. It's such a limiting concept. Games should be for everyone.

Some of my favorite gaming memories are of playing the original Contra with my buddy down the street. We'd play with Game Genie, using codes that gave us unlimited lives, invincibility, and permanent weapons. It even stopped enemies from firing their bullets. We'd play the game over and over. I still have the codes memorized. It wasn't until adulthood that I finished the game codes-free.
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  #434  
Old 02-11-2019, 07:57 AM
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Escape from Monkey Island is not just a good game, but a good, unfairly maligned Monkey Island game. The Monkey Kombat game and the big robot fight at the end are also fun and good.
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  #435  
Old 02-11-2019, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Octopus Prime View Post
What do you mean by second generation?

I always took it to mean the NES/SMS era.
SMS/NES is 3rd gen. 2nd is 2600, Odyssey2, Colecovision, etc.
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  #436  
Old 02-11-2019, 09:53 AM
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Escape from Monkey Island is not just a good game, but a good, unfairly maligned Monkey Island game. The Monkey Kombat game and the big robot fight at the end are also fun and good.
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  #437  
Old 02-11-2019, 10:21 AM
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SMS/NES is 3rd gen. 2nd is 2600, Odyssey2, Colecovision, etc.
In that case, I strongly agree.
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  #438  
Old 02-11-2019, 11:38 AM
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In a lot of ways, the original version of Resident Evil is the platonic ideal of a great horror experience: some of the dialogue and performances are worthy of a chuckle (and I will say, my friends and I were riffing on "Master of Unlocking" and "Jill Sandwich" more or less immediately), but there are moments that are scary (or were, before I knew the game front-and-back), not just jump scares of the dogs jumping through the window, though that did scare the bejeezus out of me the first time, but moments of genuine dread.
There's something to be said for the original game's ability to freak me out even when you know it's coming, it has to be, you know it, you can just tell... And I think it's in that sense of dread you mention. The game ratchets it up so that monster encounters are practically punctuation, and the real essence of the whole thing is in the anticipation, the waiting to see how and when that growing sense of unease and alarm in your head will be proven terrifyingly right.
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  #439  
Old 02-11-2019, 11:50 AM
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The second console generation has always left me a little cold. I don't have the nostalgic attachment to the 2600 and friends that folks growing up in the early 80s did, and the games have always felt just a little too primitive to hold my attention. I can absolutely appreciate the general aesthetic and art style of the carts, labels, and packaging from that era, but that's about as far as it goes for me.

I'm only saying this because I'd love to read some impassioned writing about this game era. If Yar's Revenge is your favorite game, I wanna hear about it!
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  #440  
Old 02-11-2019, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Dracula View Post
The second console generation has always left me a little cold. I don't have the nostalgic attachment to the 2600 and friends that folks growing up in the early 80s did, and the games have always felt just a little too primitive to hold my attention. I can absolutely appreciate the general aesthetic and art style of the carts, labels, and packaging from that era, but that's about as far as it goes for me.

I'm only saying this because I'd love to read some impassioned writing about this game era. If Yar's Revenge is your favorite game, I wanna hear about it!
I don't know about favourite, even just of the era (big fan of Pitfall, River Raid, Combat, and Frostbite, among others), but I actually quite like Yar's Revenge and always have, so I can take a stab at it. It's funny that you chose that as an example, because I would say it's easily one of the more ambitious and sophisticated titles of the era, but not one where its reach exceeded its grasp, such as the infamous ET (which I also liked, but that's a whole 'nother thing).

First of all, it comes with some delightful packaging and an amazing pack-in comic to help players understand the craziness that's happening in-game, although, as you say, you don't need any convincing of the appeal of the extras.

As for the game itself, it has this delightfully surreal quality that's kind of lost today, I think, but that I very much felt as a child. It was all kind of mysterious and scary. As I always understood it from my half-remembered initial read of the pack-in comic, you are some kind of weird bug monster that can shoot or chew through the blocks protecting the bad guy. The bad guy periodically can turn into this weird pinwheel and fling itself at you, and also fires this seeking projectile, but the latter can't hurt you when you hide in the neutral zone, which is the trippy multi-coloured band running down the centre of the screen that makes it hard to see. So you fire at a distance, hide in the middle, and then, once you're ready you dive in and start literally chewing through what remains with your mandibles, triggering the firing of THE ZORLON CANNON, which can hurt you as well as the bad guy if you don't get out of the way! And once you do nail the timing of that shot, the whole screen gets nuked with this bad-ass screen-filling explosion!

That's the basic formula, which you repeat ad infinitum, but the game mixes things up by changing the enemy shield to be composed of moving blocks, and then moving the entire thing up and down the screen, and then both at once. Also, the game supports several different playstyles, from plinking away with your shots from far away, diving in and aggressively chewing through, or spending a bunch of time hanging out in the safety of the neutral zone.

Anyway, it's a game about a gross bug, so you should love it, Drac.

In general, I really loved the Atari. I had a giant library of games, and some of them were too sophisticated for me (Star Raiders would forever remain an enigma), so "primitive" rings a bit hollow to my ears. It was my first system, and still one of my favourites. Obviously that's pretty inextricably tangled up in nostalgia for that period in my life, but I bet that if you and I sat down with an Atari and a copy of Combat then you'd find yourself having a fun afternoon.


ETA: Oh, and the sound design in Yar's is stellar too! The neutral zone causes this steady unnerving thrum to underscore everything, the spiral attack is conveyed with a panic-inducing alarm noise to give you advance warning, and THE ZORLON CANNON is accompanied by whirring as it travels. To say nothing of of the big echoing boom that accompanies a successful hit.
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  #441  
Old 02-11-2019, 12:32 PM
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One seldom-touted feature of the 2600 is that many (most?) of its games had alternate modes to play with. Most famously, Combat allowed you to play tanks, airplanes, and maybe some other stuff, but there was also stuff like Asteroids giving you different special abilities. If you've played Asteroids, you've probably played with the hyperdrive/teleporter ability, but the 2600 also let you play with stuff like a shield or an instant 180.

Alas, Pitfall just came with the one mode, but it was still one of the best 2600 games despite that.
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  #442  
Old 02-11-2019, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ShakeWell View Post
SMS/NES is 3rd gen. 2nd is 2600, Odyssey2, Colecovision, etc.
I do question the decision to lump ColecoVision and the 5200 in with older systems like the 2600 and Intellivision. Clearly the 5200 was the 2600's successor, and it was released five years later (the traditional gap between console cycles). Furthermore, the NES (in its Famicom form) was just one year younger than the 5200 and ColecoVision. I'm not sure it's fair or accurate to put the 2600 and 5200 together in the same generation just because they both were released before the crash.

Last edited by ArugulaZ; 02-11-2019 at 02:06 PM. Reason: Uh, slip of the tongue.
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  #443  
Old 02-11-2019, 12:47 PM
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I mentally lump the 5200 and Colecovision into that nebulous half-gen range where you’d get things like the Turbografx, Dreamcast or WiiU.
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:00 PM
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I mean, console generations are kinda silly anyhow, when you consider how the Famicom's lifespan arguably crosses two or three of them, and many of its games could comfortably fit into the trappings of any of those generations. But I digress.

Jbear, I think you're totally right that I just need to sit down with someone who has a ton of fondness for Atari games and soak it in.

My main experience with that generation was briefly owning an Intellivision (or, more accurately, the Sears version of the same console) that I picked up at an antique store. It had Donkey Kong, Tron, Astrosmash, and a number of other titles, and most of them had the translucent acetate sheet that you fit over the paddle to map out the controls. I had to go to Radio Shack and buy one of those old fashioned TV/antenna switch boxes so it would work on my TV (this was back in 2005 or 2006). I loved trying all the games out, but I found I didn't have much desire to keep playing it after that initial test, and eventually sold it. I was definitely missing a personal connection.
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  #445  
Old 02-11-2019, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Octopus Prime View Post
What do you mean by second generation?

I always took it to mean the NES/SMS era.
ShakeWell, covered it already, but yeah the SMS/NES/7800 are 3rd gen. The 1st gen is all those dedicated Pong-clone units. And the 2nd gen is everything between those two points because the Wikipedia editors who originally came up with this numbering system probably didn't care much for this era -- I mean, what kind of person would lump the 2600 and 5200 into the same generation? (I could continue on this point more, but in short I think what is commonly called the 2nd gen should be considered 2 separate generations of hardware, with the Intellivsion being the dividing line.) FAKE EDIT: I wrote this before ArugulaZ made their post.

Anyhow, the 2600 wasn't the only system of the era with cool games. I personally have a soft spot for the meager Channel F, which has a couple genuine greats. Dodge It is a simple but great title where you must dodge an increasing amount of bouncing objects in an enclosed space. And Video Whizball is sort of like Videoball except nearly 40 years older (they are, surprisingly, completely unrelated.)
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  #446  
Old 02-11-2019, 04:39 PM
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I'm one of those folks that doesn't necessarily appreciate the second generation as much, but I did get to experience some of it last month at Hardcore Retro Gaming. Our theme was Pre-Famicom systems/games. I fiddled with some Colecovision, including Gateway to Apshai. And I got into a high score battle with one of the other forum denizens in the arcade version of Moon Patrol. (I'm in the lead right now with a top score of about 108,000.)

(Also, anyone that wants to join in is more than welcome. We're doing fan translations this month.)
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  #447  
Old 02-11-2019, 07:47 PM
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I don't have a ton of experience with the Atari 2600, but everyone should have the chance to play 4-player Warlords.

For those unfamiliar, Warlords is like 4 Square meets Breakout. You've got a paddle and a castle to protect. A ball flies around destroying castle pieces it hits. You knock the ball into your opponents castle and protect your own. It is simple and perfect. When my dad was going through his Atari collection phase (by which I mean he bought all the atari systems and games from area flea markets and then gave all the working systems to friends and relatives), the game we would always use to test out systems was Warlords. My brothers and I tried out a ton of games, but this was the one we always came back to.
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:05 PM
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Secret of Evermore is a delightful, atmospheric romp through a Saturday morning cartoon and deserves more love than it gets just because it wasn't Seiken Densetsu 3.
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:36 PM
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Man that would a hell of a cartoon
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  #450  
Old 02-11-2019, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Issun View Post
Secret of Evermore is a delightful, atmospheric romp through a Saturday morning cartoon and deserves more love than it gets just because it wasn't Seiken Densetsu 3.
Agreed. It's always been a shame that the game never got a Virtual Console release, or at least a few Brave Exvius characters, since that game's open to including gacha material that's outside the house of Final Fantasy.

I'm guessing like Startropics it tends to get ignored in nostalgia grab titles 'cuz it was a 90s game that never got released in Japan. Though Nintendo at least (usually*) remembers that Startropics existed long enough to toss it and its sequel up on its retro games services.

* I don't think the Startropics games are on 3DS, and who knows when or if they'll hit Switch's subscription service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki View Post
Man that would a hell of a cartoon
I think something kinda like that existed; it was called Mighty Max. Never saw the show in syndication where I lived, but I did used to have some of the toys, like the two-headed dragon man and the giant dragon island playset.
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