The Return of Talking Time

Go Back   The Return of Talking Time > Talking about media > Talking about television games

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-13-2018, 01:53 PM
Ludendorkk's Avatar
Ludendorkk Ludendorkk is offline
Chief Servbot
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Lima, OH
Pronouns: He/Him
Posts: 3,047
Default Hollow Knight

Thought it was time this got it's own thread



The most acclaimed Metroidvania since Symphony of the Night* has finally launched on Switch! I've only played a few hours so far but it is great -- the style is incredibly charming! I'm a bit wary of how long the game is supposed to be, since I've sort of come to the opinion that less is more in the genre, but I'm willing to find out!



* I have no idea if this is objectively true but it sure feels like it on message boards
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-13-2018, 01:56 PM
Patrick's Avatar
Patrick Patrick is online now
of the Black Falcons
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Pronouns: he, him
Posts: 19,584
Default

I want it! I'm going to be out of town for most of the next month, so I'm going to wait until I'm back to pick it up. But, it looks really good and I'm excited to finally play it soon.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-13-2018, 02:15 PM
MCBanjoMike's Avatar
MCBanjoMike MCBanjoMike is offline
Sudden chomper
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 16,636
Default

Hey, I was going to start this thread! Today, even!

In my opinion, Hollow Knight is the metroidvania that every indie game has been trying to be for the last 10 years. In fact, I'd honestly rate it just after Super Metroid as the second best game I've played in the genre, although the game is not without its faults. For better or worse, Hollow Knight is an enormous, sprawling game - and one that gives the player very little guidance. I think this mostly works in the game's favor, since the scope combined with the art direction makes for a world that you can really get lost in, literally and figuratively. The game does some original stuff with its mapping system that I really like: the map doesn't fill in until you get to save point which helps add a sense of tension to the exploration that you don't often get in these games.

I'm short on time right now, but I'll revisit this thread to add some more thoughts on one of my favorite games in recent memory. Just be warned, it's really long!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-13-2018, 02:37 PM
Behemoth's Avatar
Behemoth Behemoth is offline
Dostoevsky is immortal!
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Land of Milk and Honey
Posts: 2,964
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCBanjoMike View Post
I'm short on time right now, but I'll revisit this thread to add some more thoughts on one of my favorite games in recent memory. Just be warned, it's really long!
Your thoughts or the game?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-13-2018, 02:38 PM
Sprite's Avatar
Sprite Sprite is offline
Crazy Old Bird
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York
Pronouns: He/Him/His
Posts: 19,509
Default

I wish I had known about the mapping system before buying it because I have no sense of direction and the lack of a persistent map makes me miserable.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-13-2018, 02:40 PM
Tiers in Rain's Avatar
Tiers in Rain Tiers in Rain is offline
nothing spatial
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Dystopia
Posts: 1,266
Default

I'm glad there is a thread for this game now. I want it very much, can't wait to play it.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-13-2018, 02:54 PM
jpfriction's Avatar
jpfriction jpfriction is offline
Outraged!
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Almost, but not quite, in ND
Posts: 4,317
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprite View Post
I wish I had known about the mapping system before buying it because I have no sense of direction and the lack of a persistent map makes me miserable.
Not sure if I understand the issue. You can buy a new map in each area and there is a compass of sorts you can equip to see where you are on it. Is it the initial jaunts into the new areas that give you trouble?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-13-2018, 02:56 PM
Behemoth's Avatar
Behemoth Behemoth is offline
Dostoevsky is immortal!
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Land of Milk and Honey
Posts: 2,964
Default

I'm also excited to play this! MV is one of my favorite genres, but I haven't had one really resonate with me since the DS Castlevanias.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-13-2018, 03:19 PM
muteKi's Avatar
muteKi muteKi is online now
O tempora! O morays!
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Green chile cheeseburger capital of the world
Pronouns: they're more hobbyist nouns tbh
Posts: 14,351
Default

Boss rush mode is apparently gonna be a free update. I've only seen mention of it during the Nintendo stuff, but I assume this is true for all platforms.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-13-2018, 03:53 PM
Sprite's Avatar
Sprite Sprite is offline
Crazy Old Bird
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York
Pronouns: He/Him/His
Posts: 19,509
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpfriction View Post
Not sure if I understand the issue. You can buy a new map in each area and there is a compass of sorts you can equip to see where you are on it. Is it the initial jaunts into the new areas that give you trouble?
Yes. I get lost very, very easily.

I also just hate walking into a room and seeing blank space on the map. I get the flavor theyíre going for, I just find it aggravating.

That very personal quibble aside, it does seem like a stellar game so far. I like how the soul system streamlines enemy drops.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-13-2018, 05:25 PM
Wendell's Avatar
Wendell Wendell is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,293
Default

For the first boss I left him alive entirely by accident, and when I went back to check in the fight started again. This time I killed him. I wonder if leaving him alive changes anything!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-13-2018, 06:03 PM
MCBanjoMike's Avatar
MCBanjoMike MCBanjoMike is offline
Sudden chomper
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 16,636
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
Your thoughts or the game?
Trust me, the game is far longer than anything I'll ever write about it. A completionist playthrough could easily take 35-40 hours for a new player. Of course, you can speedrun the game in about 40 minutes if you know what you're doing...

Sprite, if you're still interested in the game, there are some ways to mitigate the difficulty of the mapping system. First off, before long you'll be able to buy (some) of the maps in town - although this will require you do explore the areas blind for a little while. But once you have the map, it'll update every time the game saves - even if you die. Since the game uses Dark Souls-style respawning rather than game overs, you can always throw a few lives away on early expeditions into new areas and then return with a partially-completed map. Finally, there's a charm you can equip that shows your current position, and even it works even if the map isn't filled in. So you won't know how to get to where you want to be, but at least you'll have some idea which direction you have to go in.

That said, I won't pretend that this game is for everyone. It is immense and aimless and quite difficult at times. If the thought of learning a challenging boss fight makes you queasy, you might not be in the right place (although most of the really hard bosses are optional). But for people who can get into the game's head space, it is a treat like no other. I've finished it twice in the last 6 months and I absolutely would have played it again if the Switch port had been released before my recent trip, rather than on the last day of it. The art is fantastic, the controls are rock solid, the characters are memorable, there's a ton of great environmental storytelling and the customization system is fun and flexible. After playing a bunch of exploration platformers that fell short, this is the first one I've felt genuinely excited about since Dawn of Sorrow. And it's super weird that people on Talking Time, of all places, haven't really picked up on it! I guess there aren't that many of us PC folks on here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell View Post
For the first boss I left him alive entirely by accident, and when I went back to check in the fight started again. This time I killed him. I wonder if leaving him alive changes anything!
I don't think it changes anything of import, but you'd miss out on the item you get for beating him, which would force you to find a different path into the City of Tears later on.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-13-2018, 06:55 PM
jpfriction's Avatar
jpfriction jpfriction is offline
Outraged!
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Almost, but not quite, in ND
Posts: 4,317
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprite View Post
Yes. I get lost very, very easily.

I also just hate walking into a room and seeing blank space on the map. I get the flavor theyíre going for, I just find it aggravating.

That very personal quibble aside, it does seem like a stellar game so far. I like how the soul system streamlines enemy drops.
Gotcha. Just wanted to make sure you knew Cornifer existed (I guess he is pretty hard to miss). I can think of at least one area where he was a little too well hidden, which made getting around pretty aggravating. Love his humming, though, all is forgiven.

I enjoyed this game a lot (ended up getting impatient and buying it on steam). Really fun to just poke around the new areas trying to find a stag station. Plenty of upgrades, spells, etc to keep combat interesting and it was actually pretty tough to clear some of the later bosses. Bit unusual for the genre.

I will confess to walkthroughing my way through the last few bits and baubles hidden around the map. Long ass game, I was ready to finish up after 40 hours.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-13-2018, 07:19 PM
Sprite's Avatar
Sprite Sprite is offline
Crazy Old Bird
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York
Pronouns: He/Him/His
Posts: 19,509
Default

Yeah I bought the compass the moment I learned it existed. I'm a little salty that it takes up an accessory slot.

I'm also salty that one area I got lost in had map guy gated off past an obstacle I couldn't get past yet (the weird pillars of dark matter). I took that as a sign to take a break.

I'm loving the tight controls! They make learning the bosses a lot of fun.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-13-2018, 07:22 PM
Sprite's Avatar
Sprite Sprite is offline
Crazy Old Bird
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York
Pronouns: He/Him/His
Posts: 19,509
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCBanjoMike View Post
Trust me, the game is far longer than anything I'll ever write about it. A completionist playthrough could easily take 35-40 hours for a new player. Of course, you can speedrun the game in about 40 minutes if you know what you're doing...
I assume a large chunk of that 35-40 hours is the free DLC stuff they added as they went along? HLTB has the main story clocked at 20 hours, which seems more typical of this genre.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-13-2018, 08:08 PM
MJG's Avatar
MJG MJG is offline
?!
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,022
Default

I played the game on its original release and it took me 19 hours. There were some optional challenges and miscellaneous doodads that I didn't pick up, but I felt like I saw most of what the game had to offer.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:05 PM
Olli T's Avatar
Olli T Olli T is offline
concentrate
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 8,583
Default

I kind of want to play this, but I really dislike the spooky aesthetics
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06-14-2018, 04:36 AM
Erilex's Avatar
Erilex Erilex is offline
hourglass figure
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 504
Default

I'm also playing this on the switch! Like Sprite, I have some gripes about the mapping system (and a similarly terrible sense of direction), but that aside, I'm enjoying my time with it a lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olli T View Post
I kind of want to play this, but I really dislike the spooky aesthetics
But it's so cute! The npcs are all adorable. Even the ones that are assholes are assholes in an endearing way.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06-14-2018, 04:45 AM
Octopus Prime's Avatar
Octopus Prime Octopus Prime is offline
Mystery Contraption
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Great White North
Pronouns: He
Posts: 49,021
Default

Itís so weird that undead bug-Men from a decrepit and dying underground kingdom could be so dang adorable. Yet here we are.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06-14-2018, 07:31 AM
Merus Merus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 15,325
Default

I have been looking askance at you lot that you didn't have a Hollow Knight thread. It's one of the best Metroidvanias ever made, and as far as I'm concerned, it is the best. Yes, better than that one.

For instance: remember that bit at the end of Symphony of the Night where you discover a whole entire castle and there's a ton more game to go for the "true" ending? Hollow Knight does that too, except it's all completely new areas. You can have explored every edge of the map, have everything all filled in, and still be missing an entire zone. (And this is all launch content - the DLC added new optional boss fights and convenience systems.) I love the way it tells story by inference. I love the confidence it has in its combat system. (I appreciate that the hardest fights in the game shortcut the death system, so instead of having to trudge back, you just wake up.) I love the way every corner has something to discover, even if it's just a unique enemy or a room with some neat art in it. I love how it rewards curiosity. I love how it punishes curiosity.

But I think my favourite thing about it is how it manages the inherent confusion over 'where to go next' by not having one place to go next - its critical path has several tracks on it, and almost everywhere you could explore has something interesting at the end of it, thanks to the ingenious charm system (essentially, Paper Mario's badges, except each one is unique and says something about where you found it). It keeps a handle on this open structure through marrying traditional gear gating with the key-and-shortcut-based progression of the Souls games, and coupling that with ingenious map design that cunningly funnels you into important areas in several different ways so you're guaranteed to "naturally" "stumble across" it. Not having one place to go is such an obvious idea but it seems like such a waste of content, and Hollow Knight gets around that by just having a shocking amount of content.

This game is made by three people. It's $15.

Get on this train (or stag beetle).
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 06-14-2018, 07:39 AM
Octopus Prime's Avatar
Octopus Prime Octopus Prime is offline
Mystery Contraption
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Great White North
Pronouns: He
Posts: 49,021
Default

This game brought Merus back? Wow, June truly is a season of miracles.

Iíve just beaten Hornet, for presumably the first time, and can now air-dash. Meaning that so many rooms I could only barely miss Are now accessible.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06-14-2018, 08:07 AM
YangusKhan's Avatar
YangusKhan YangusKhan is online now
does the Underpants Dance
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Colorado
Pronouns: he/him
Posts: 7,482
Default

Oh wait, it's only on Steam and now Switch?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06-14-2018, 08:59 AM
MCBanjoMike's Avatar
MCBanjoMike MCBanjoMike is offline
Sudden chomper
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 16,636
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopus Prime View Post
This game brought Merus back? Wow, June truly is a season of miracles.

Iíve just beaten Hornet, for presumably the first time, and can now air-dash. Meaning that so many rooms I could only barely miss Are now accessible.
If you're in the mood for some light sequence breaking, try luring a mosquito over to an area that you can't quite reach and pogoing off it. It'll help you grab a few items a little earlier than you could have otherwise. True doom murderheads will intentionally die in specific areas so they can pogo jump off the shade they leave behind, it completely blew my mind the first time I saw someone do that in a speedrun.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06-14-2018, 09:15 AM
four-so's Avatar
four-so four-so is offline
PROGRAMMED BY NASIR
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Louisiana
Pronouns: ♂
Posts: 5,272
Default

I don't really like the art direction in this game but I've been disappointed with a lot of "good" Metroidvanias - Guacamelee and Salt & Sanctuary come to mind - so I may have to dip my toe here just on the strength of the recommendations. The last really good one I remember playing was Axiom Verge.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-14-2018, 02:38 PM
Loki's Avatar
Loki Loki is online now
Funko Superfan
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Pronouns: He/Him
Posts: 16,319
Default

Hollow Knight is a goat!!!
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06-14-2018, 03:18 PM
Patrick's Avatar
Patrick Patrick is online now
of the Black Falcons
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Pronouns: he, him
Posts: 19,584
Default

I havenít played this yet, but I think heís a bug, Loki.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06-14-2018, 03:26 PM
Sprite's Avatar
Sprite Sprite is offline
Crazy Old Bird
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York
Pronouns: He/Him/His
Posts: 19,509
Default

Yep, it did not take me long to get completely stuck. I only just realized I can mark the map, though, which is great, because itís the one thing I wanted to do! Time to do another loop around these areas looking desperately for something new.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06-14-2018, 03:43 PM
Erilex's Avatar
Erilex Erilex is offline
hourglass figure
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 504
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprite View Post
Yep, it did not take me long to get completely stuck. I only just realized I can mark the map, though, which is great, because itís the one thing I wanted to do! Time to do another loop around these areas looking desperately for something new.
I realized this was probably a thing a while ago, since the colored shell pins I bought in the map store weren't placing themselves in the map automatically like the others did, but I still haven't figured out how to do it.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06-14-2018, 03:48 PM
Octopus Prime's Avatar
Octopus Prime Octopus Prime is offline
Mystery Contraption
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Great White North
Pronouns: He
Posts: 49,021
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
I havenít played this yet, but I think heís a bug, Loki.
Goats are bats?
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06-14-2018, 04:07 PM
Wendell's Avatar
Wendell Wendell is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,293
Default

BATS ARENíT BUGS!!!!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
a bug's strife , atmospheric platformers , better than metroid 3? , buggin' out , bugtroidvania , hollow knight , metroidvania , team cherry , weird bats

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Your posts ©you, 2007