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  #5311  
Old 02-09-2019, 07:59 AM
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JBear JBear is offline
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Man, ya'll killing it. Good work!
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  #5312  
Old 02-09-2019, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crut View Post
Looks like we have a sweet spot.

Loving the TT representation in the top ten.
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  #5313  
Old 02-09-2019, 10:42 AM
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No streak , DDNe got paralyzed by an ogre mage amongst a riled up Orc:2. Tele landed me next to a two-headed ogre.
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  #5314  
Old 02-10-2019, 07:24 AM
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I lost my MiBe in tomb. I don't think I'll try 15-runing again. All traps hitting you in tomb is just nuts, constantly being marked and netted.
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  #5315  
Old 02-10-2019, 09:27 AM
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I was hoping someone would talk about the new trap implementation, because the way it was discussed in the changelog sounded pointlessly vicious and I was sure it couldn't be as bad as it was sounding, but I guess it is.
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  #5316  
Old 02-10-2019, 07:28 PM
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It's fine for most of the game. In areas with a ton of traps (tomb, some vaults, sometimes Z:5) it's absolutely miserable.
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  #5317  
Old 02-11-2019, 05:21 AM
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The thing for me, like always, is that it bothers me that it doesn't make much sense thematically. I'll always be someone for whom theme is more important than mechanics, and it's clear that the Crawl dev team always prioritizes mechanics over theme. Sure, all those mechanical traps in Tomb ceased to be relevant ages ago, but they were thematic AF, and this new "invoking traps" makes no goddamned sense. "This bug/zombie/ghost fell onto a switch, I guess?" I miss the days when I used to live in fear of a simple blade trap. As always, Crawl continues to take two steps forward, one step back. That's still an overall positive, but it can be frustrating!

(Well, frustrating to watch, at least, in my case. >_<)
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  #5318  
Old 02-11-2019, 08:02 AM
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It made some sense for Zot traps, maybe, sort of -- they were magical in nature. Net traps, though? ???
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  #5319  
Old 02-16-2019, 12:12 AM
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Congrats to Gerad and Crut for having active streaks currently at 4 games each!

My DEMo is now ready to do the Orb/Tomb run. I'm planning to start at 10am PST on Saturday.
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  #5320  
Old 02-16-2019, 11:13 AM
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rk made that look easy. But holy heck I feel for you now Gerad, that looks like it would be miserable on a melee character.

Also thanks to that win, we are on the frontpage!

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  #5321  
Old 02-18-2019, 10:36 PM
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Six in a row!

I picked Chaos Knight for the last one because I just wanted it to end...

I like these tournaments because it's about the only time I'm focused when I play.

Anyhow, I'm out of town for the next few days. So, I think I'll just leave it there.

It's always a blast watching all of you play! Keep up the good crawling!
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  #5322  
Old 02-18-2019, 11:02 PM
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aturtledoesbite aturtledoesbite is offline
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just wanna mention

"Hello My Name Is Ignacio Montoya" is a wonderful team name and i applaud those people

also i know i said i'd play and then i ended up not

i got busy these weeks, sorry
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  #5323  
Old 02-19-2019, 09:10 AM
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I've likewise been super busy and ... er, playing FFIV FE in my free time.
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  #5324  
Old 02-19-2019, 06:30 PM
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I AM BACK

sorry I kinda just fell off the face of the earth but I feel like I wanna get back into Crawl again. Wish me luck on some insane banners! (Can't join a clan cause it's late AF but whatever!)
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  #5325  
Old 02-19-2019, 10:34 PM
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Well with the loss of my very promising mummy I think I am done for the tournament. Sorry I did nothing but fail this time team. I think alarm traps triggering when enemies step on them is just one thing too much for my playstyle to handle. Maybe next tournament I will be in better health and can focus more.
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  #5326  
Old 02-20-2019, 09:09 PM
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Gerad Gerad is offline
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Sorry to hear, Sporo. Sometimes the breaks just don't go for you.

At Capt's request: the damage calculation part of my .rc file:

Code:
###############
# Damage Calc #
###############
<
  local previous_hp = 0
  local previous_mp = 0
  local previous_form = ""
  local was_berserk_last_turn = false

  function AnnounceDamage()
    local current_hp, max_hp = you.hp()
    local current_mp, max_mp = you.mp()
    --Things that increase hp/mp temporarily really mess with this
    local current_form = you.transform()
    local you_are_berserk = you.berserk()
    local max_hp_increased = false
    local max_hp_decreased = false

    if (current_form ~= previous_form) then
      if (previous_form:find("dragon") or
          previous_form:find("statue") or
          previous_form:find("tree") or
          previous_form:find("ice")) then
        max_hp_decreased = true
      elseif (current_form:find("dragon") or
          current_form:find("statue") or
          current_form:find("tree") or
          current_form:find("ice")) then
        max_hp_increased = true
      end
    end
    if (was_berserk_last_turn and not you_are_berserk) then
      max_hp_decreased = true
    elseif (you_are_berserk and not was_berserk_last_turn) then
      max_hp_increased = true
    end

    --crawl.mpr(string.format("previous_form is: %s", previous_form))
    --crawl.mpr(string.format("current_form is: %s", current_form))
    --crawl.mpr(string.format("max_hp_increased is: %s", max_hp_increased and "True" or "False"))
    --crawl.mpr(string.format("max_hp_decreased is: %s", max_hp_decreased and "True" or "False"))

    --crawl.mpr(string:format("you_are_berserk is: %s", you_are_berserk and "True" or "False"))
    --crawl.mpr(string:format("was_berserk_last_turn is: %s", was_berserk_last_turn and "True" or "False"))


    --Skips message on initializing game
    if previous_hp > 0 then
      local hp_difference = previous_hp - current_hp
      local mp_difference = previous_mp - current_mp

      if max_hp_increased or max_hp_decreased then
        if max_hp_increased then
          crawl.mpr("<green>You now have " .. current_hp .. "/" .. max_hp .. " hp.</green>")
        else
          crawl.mpr("<yellow>You now have " .. current_hp .. "/" .. max_hp .. " hp.</yellow>")
        end
      else
        --On losing health
        if (current_hp < previous_hp) then
          if current_hp <= (max_hp * 0.30) then
            crawl.mpr("<red>You take " .. hp_difference .. " damage,</red><lightred> and have " .. current_hp .. "/" .. max_hp .. " hp.</lightred>")
          elseif current_hp <= (max_hp * 0.50) then
            crawl.mpr("<red>You take " .. hp_difference .. " damage, and have " .. current_hp .. "/" .. max_hp .. " hp.</red>")
          elseif current_hp <= (max_hp *  0.70) then
            crawl.mpr("<red>You take " .. hp_difference .. " damage,</red><yellow> and have " .. current_hp .. "/" .. max_hp .. " hp.</yellow>")
          elseif current_hp <= (max_hp * 0.90) then
            crawl.mpr("<red>You take " .. hp_difference .. " damage,</red><lightgrey> and have " .. current_hp .. "/" .. max_hp .. " hp.</lightgrey>")
          else
            crawl.mpr("<red>You take " .. hp_difference .. " damage,</red><green> and have " .. current_hp .. "/" .. max_hp .. " hp.</green>")
          end
          if hp_difference > (max_hp * 0.20) then
            crawl.mpr("<lightred>MASSIVE DAMAGE!!</lightred>")
          end
        end

        --On gaining more than 1 health
        if (current_hp > previous_hp) then
          --Removes the negative sign
          local health_inturn = (0 - hp_difference)
          if (health_inturn > 1) and not (current_hp == max_hp) then
            if current_hp <= (max_hp * 0.30) then
              crawl.mpr("<green>You regained " .. health_inturn .. " hp,</green><lightred> and now have " .. current_hp .. "/" .. max_hp .. " hp.</lightred>")
            elseif current_hp <= (max_hp * 0.50) then
              crawl.mpr("<green>You regained " .. health_inturn .. " hp,</green><red> and now have " .. current_hp .. "/" .. max_hp .. " hp.</red>")
            elseif current_hp <= (max_hp *  0.70) then
              crawl.mpr("<green>You regained " .. health_inturn .. " hp,</green><yellow> and now have " .. current_hp .. "/" .. max_hp .. " hp.</yellow>")
            elseif current_hp <= (max_hp * 0.90) then
              crawl.mpr("<green>You regained " .. health_inturn .. " hp,</green><lightgrey> and now have " .. current_hp .. "/" .. max_hp .. " hp.</lightgrey>")
            else
              crawl.mpr("<green>You regained " .. health_inturn .. " hp, and now have " .. current_hp .. "/" .. max_hp .. " hp.</green>")
            end
          end
          if (current_hp == max_hp) then
            crawl.mpr("<green>Health restored: " .. current_hp .. "</green>")
          end
        end

        --On gaining more than 1 magic
        if (current_mp > previous_mp) then
          --Removes the negative sign
          local mp_inturn = (0 - mp_difference)
          if (mp_inturn > 1) and not (current_mp == max_mp) then
            if current_mp < (max_mp * 0.25) then
              crawl.mpr("<lightcyan>You regained " .. mp_inturn .. " mp,</lightcyan><red> and now have " .. current_mp .. "/" .. max_mp .. " mp.</red>")
            elseif current_mp < (max_mp * 0.50) then
              crawl.mpr("<lightcyan>You regained " .. mp_inturn .. " mp,</lightcyan><yellow> and now have " .. current_mp .. "/" .. max_mp .. " mp.</yellow>")
            else
              crawl.mpr("<lightcyan>You regained " .. mp_inturn .. " mp,</lightcyan><green> and now have " .. current_mp .. "/" .. max_mp .. " mp.</green>")
            end
          end
          if (current_mp == max_mp) then
            crawl.mpr("<lightcyan>MP restored: " .. current_mp .. "</lightcyan>")
          end
        end

        --On losing magic
        if current_mp < previous_mp then
          if current_mp <= (max_mp / 5) then
            crawl.mpr("<lightcyan>You now have </lightcyan><red>" .. current_mp .. "/" ..max_mp .." mp.</red>")
          elseif current_mp <= (max_mp / 2) then
            crawl.mpr("<lightcyan>You now have </lightcyan><yellow>" .. current_mp .. "/" ..max_mp .." mp.</yellow>")
          else
            crawl.mpr("<lightcyan>You now have </lightcyan><green>" .. current_mp .. "/" ..max_mp .." mp.</green>")
          end
        end
      end
    end

    --Set previous hp/mp and form at end of turn
    previous_hp = current_hp
    previous_mp = current_mp
    previous_form = current_form
    was_berserk_last_turn = you_are_berserk
  end
>

I didn't come up with it, I copied it from some dude!
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  #5327  
Old 02-23-2019, 08:17 AM
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Gerad Gerad is offline
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Way to finish that HuAK off, Capt! Sorry I didn't see it!
For a streak, too!
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  #5328  
Old 02-24-2019, 10:54 AM
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CaptBlasto CaptBlasto is offline
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Thanks Gerad! Winning the HuAK means that I now have won a game with every background in Crawl! Unfortunately, the 3-streak was not meant to be, I lost the TrFi of Uskayaw in Zot:5. I gained the berserkeritis and teleportitis muts while fighting an orb of fire. I was teleported while berserk into a lung. I panicked a little bit and immediately read a tp scroll instead of surveying my surroundings, and that tp'd me into a worse position. I was immediately netted and that was pretty much it.

I absolutely hate the trap changes. The fact that you can be marked or netted as you descend downstairs or walk into view of an enemy, with no possible counterplay, is just terrible game design. At least with Vault Sentinels you can have high MR, and with netting creatures you can skill accordingly. There is nothing you can do to stop an enemy from stepping on an alarm or net trap you didn't know existed until they trigger it as you enter the level. I think I wouldn't mind them as much if enemies still triggered them while offscreen, but now enemies will not touch them unless you are on screen. It just makes for a more frustrating and unfun experience.
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  #5329  
Old 02-25-2019, 07:46 PM
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Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup 0.23 Tournament closing thoughts post!

First and foremost, I am again honored to have played with a great group of players. You are all tremendous crawlers, and I look forward to learning something new from each of you every time I watch. Every tourney has rocked, and this was no exception.

I thought we did really well. For only five players we scored over 10k points and landed in 12th place. That's really awesome. Only thing we didn't do is to kill Murray, that slippery bastard. Nice job, one and all.

Here are some of my thoughts on the new changes: (link to changelog)

Let's start with the big one
Code:
* Trap system overhaul:
  - Traps that generate on the ground are always revealed.
  - Exploration has a chance to trigger a "trap effect" independent from
    terrain traps. The possible effects are alarm, shaft, and teleport near
    monsters.
  - Monsters only trigger traps in sight of the player.
  - Alarm traps now always Mark the player whenever they are triggered in LOS.
  - Net traps now try to net the player whenever they are triggered in LOS.
  - New trap: dispersal trap. When triggered, every actor in sight of the trap
    is blinked.
  - Trap placement in Ossuaries, Zot:5, and Tomb has been overhauled. In Zot:5
    and Tomb, all mechanical traps save for net traps have been removed.
  - Grate traps (triggered by pressure plates) have been removed.
This is the biggest change and the one with the most controversy. It's kind of bullshit, in my opinion. The new traps cost Capt and Gerad in Zot:5 and rkdn in Tomb:3 (and I only survived netting twice in Tomb:3 on pure luck). And therein lies my biggest beef:

The only places that these new rules make significantly more difficult are Zot:5 and Tomb:2/3. And seriously, those are the two areas in the game that I don't think need any more buffs. No matter how badass my character, there are plenty of things that can go wrong in those areas. (See also the mutation changes from a while back, and the Tomb stair changes.)

I guess I'd prefer an overhaul that made traps a threat throughout the game. Maybe use them as mid tier threats that the player needs to puzzle through. Akin to those early vaults surrounded by clouds or something. But I guess to do that you need to solve the other problem which is the traps are no longer in the player's control. Seeing them is great, but I didn't really see a way to tactically avoid them if needed.

Also, dispersal traps strike me as pointless.

Quote:
* New Gauntlet portal to replace Labyrinths:
- Gauntlets have the player choose a path through several combat arenas,
each of which contains (sometimes exotic) monsters and loot.
- Access to each arena is one-way using transporters. Teleports and Passage
of Golubria are disabled.
- All paths lead to a minotaur who guards a pile of treasure and the exit.
- Gauntlets are found where Labyrinths previously generated.
These are really hard. I've always thought the labyrinths were a waste of time, but these are just so nasty. Feel like they need to be balanced more for when they generate. The buffs the minotaur got in .22 already made labyrinths dangerous, not sure I need to get by a couple wizards and a green death in addition at level 12.

Now some smaller things that I encountered:
Code:
* Fedhas' protection of plants from player spells is extended to LOS-wide
  attack spells.
This is a nice little buff to Fedhas.

Code:
* Wand charges for wands of digging, enslavement, flame, paralysis, polymorph,
  and random effects have been reduced.
Did anyone else struggle with this? Particularly with wands of digging? In three of my consecutive games I found 3, 0, and 7 charges of digging. Really made some of the endgame irritating.

As an aside, I wouldn't be surprised to see digging removed at some point. Many of the other ways to manipulate the environment have been cut in the last few versions (LRD, Disintegrate), and digging seems so rare now, that I wouldn't be shocked to hear the the devs are trying to cut down on the "diagonal tunnel dig" strats.

Code:
Monster weapons, armour, and wands are identified and revealed to the player when the monster is first seen.
I guess this is nice. Doesn't really feel roguelike-y to me, though.

Code:
* Killer Klowns now have a pie throwing ability that damages the player and
  effects them with one of Vertigo, Silence, -Potions, Stat drain, rF-, or
  polymorph to bat, pig, or wisp form.
This was fine. I like it when things are a bit more thematically chaotic. The Klowns should be weird and crazy. More changes like this are fine with me. Xom should grant his followers Klown Pies to throw.

What thoughts do all of you have on 0.23?
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  #5330  
Old 02-25-2019, 08:20 PM
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Sporophyte Sporophyte is offline
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Perhaps it was just my utterly miserable luck this tournament but I was finding myself marked by alarm traps constantly. Being forced to burn consumables to get away repeatedly from huge groups of enemies means eventually the tools run out and death comes. I have no clue how you did so well streaking with these changes to traps, but congrats on fantastic playing.

The one time I found the new gauntlet level it had two vaults that would have been impossible and one that was very easy. I'm ultimately unsure if the change to labyrinths really improved things or not, but the old way was just kind of a waste of time.
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  #5331  
Old 02-26-2019, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sporophyte View Post
Perhaps it was just my utterly miserable luck this tournament but I was finding myself marked by alarm traps constantly. Being forced to burn consumables to get away repeatedly from huge groups of enemies means eventually the tools run out and death comes. I have no clue how you did so well streaking with these changes to traps, but congrats on fantastic playing.
I have no idea how I streaked anything. I'm going to call it good RNG. Praise Xom! Tomb:3 in particular almost killed me between the 'regular' nonsense and the net traps. I don't even go in there without a suite of level 8 or 9 spells anymore.

I think you hit the nail on the head noting the consumable cost to the trap changes. I was really hard up for potions of healing and scrolls of teleportation for large sections of my runs. Wasn't really understanding the problem at the time, but I was using them to get out of trouble early way more often.
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  #5332  
Old 02-26-2019, 11:30 AM
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Gerad Gerad is offline
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I had one death in tomb:3 and two in zot:5. In fairness, the two in zot were avoidable (though new traps were a contributor). I don't think the one in tomb was. Just shouldn't have tried, which sucks when you have 14 runes.
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  #5333  
Old 02-26-2019, 05:45 PM
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Also, my Tomb:3 death was probably the result of not hasting on my final trip and bad muts. If hasted, I might have been able to move and blink through one of the doors (an ushabti was blocking the one I could maybe have gotten to with an additional turn).
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  #5334  
Old 02-27-2019, 02:32 AM
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The streak is doth continue. I'm not sure how I did this. I was just messing around. I always die in this. Maybe I made some Centaur cheese?

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  #5335  
Old 02-27-2019, 06:01 AM
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Gerad Gerad is offline
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Whoa, in that one crazy sprint! I've never beaten that one, though I think Capt has.
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  #5336  
Old 02-27-2019, 04:48 PM
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Rosewood Rosewood is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptBlasto View Post
rk made that look easy. But holy heck I feel for you now Gerad, that looks like it would be miserable on a melee character.

Also thanks to that win, we are on the frontpage!

I have to give it up to "Tab and Dab" for a hilarious AND thematic team name.
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  #5337  
Old 02-27-2019, 05:52 PM
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CaptBlasto CaptBlasto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crut View Post
The streak is doth continue. I'm not sure how I did this. I was just messing around. I always die in this. Maybe I made some Centaur cheese?

Congrats! Centaur seems like an odd choice for this, though maybe the fast movespeed helps for getting to the rings? I think I've won with DD and Ghoul
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  #5338  
Old 02-27-2019, 08:03 PM
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Gerad Gerad is offline
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+hp is nice, and Ce has that and movespeed?

I say this as someone who has never won arena of blood.
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  #5339  
Old 02-27-2019, 08:40 PM
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So I know I posted a primer for arena of blood years ago, but I'm my opinion the way you die in this is getting slowed so that the hasted hell Lords are able to move next to you and swing in the same turn. I think they do 200+ damage. Typically you move early game to get the rF and sinv rings and then you post up near or on the exit so that you only have to survive one turn of getting beat on to escape.

If the centaur lets you get those rings earlier I can see that movespeed working out. Also it could help if you have to move onto the exit. Do centaurs take less time to ascend stairs? If so that would help a lot too.

DD is strong because of damage shaving as every little bit helps, and they get a lot of natural MR to help avoid the slow. Ghoul is strong because of torment immunity and poison resistance, while still having a large HP pool. I'd imagine gargoyles would just get slaughtered with their low hp totals. Formicid is good because of stasis and the ability to dig a kill tunnel, though I'd imagine it's hard to escape then.

I know tatterdemalion back in the day told us that there is actually a rune to get after getting the orb, but I've never tried for it.
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  #5340  
Old 02-28-2019, 03:31 AM
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JBear JBear is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptBlasto View Post
Do centaurs take less time to ascend stairs?
Nah. In fact, the balance to how good centaurs were otherwise used to be that they took 3 times as long to go up or down stairs, tripping over their hooves and whatnot. Made the usual stair-dancing pretty untenable.
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+72 club , because crawl loves you , carry the black torch , chei of staff , cheigoyle too stronk , chief of staff , dungeon crawl , hubris is smite-targeted , italo disco , jorgrun , line of sight hell , orbit of destruction , orc jesus , roguelike , rougelike , rouse the idle dead , there is no hrm , there is only plaay , xom notices you , zot traps

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