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  #781  
Old 07-14-2014, 07:17 PM
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How on earth is D&D not worth its own thread?
It totally is.
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  #782  
Old 07-18-2014, 07:36 PM
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Probably my highest Race score yet. I was winning anyway, but it was awesome to be able to drop the Planet Buster and pulverize some random world for giggles on the last turn.
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  #783  
Old 09-07-2014, 07:24 PM
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Dice shaming.

Last edited by Lucas; 09-21-2014 at 11:30 AM.
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  #784  
Old 09-21-2014, 11:30 AM
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Has anyone here played Feng Shui and can share their thoughts on it/the Feng Shui 2 kickstarter? I'm as inclined to back it as not, since Robin D. Laws, but I've never so much as seen the original game.
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  #785  
Old 09-21-2014, 12:59 PM
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taaaaaaaabletop simulator

TAAAAAAAABLETOP SIMULAAAAAAAATOR

Seriously why did I drop 16 bucks on that garbage? I cannot for the life of me figure out what I'm doing with trying to add in a custom game, and there's no in-game documentation OR web-based tutorials. NOTHING EXISTS. I know people have made cool games for this but HOW THE FUCK DID THEY DO IT?

I JUST WANT TITAN IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK GOD FUCKING DAMMIT AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
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  #786  
Old 09-22-2014, 06:34 AM
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Has anyone here played Feng Shui and can share their thoughts on it/the Feng Shui 2 kickstarter? I'm as inclined to back it as not, since Robin D. Laws, but I've never so much as seen the original game.
I never played the original, but I'm reading the backer draft and it sounds like a pretty clean, fun game for running dumb action flicks. The system's quite straightforward, and most of the rules complexity winds up in special rules for PCs (feat/stunt-style).
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  #787  
Old 09-22-2014, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
Has anyone here played Feng Shui and can share their thoughts on it/the Feng Shui 2 kickstarter? I'm as inclined to back it as not, since Robin D. Laws, but I've never so much as seen the original game.
I've also been thinking about backing Feng Shui 2, but I did read that character creation is a little flat mechanically, you pick an archetype and that's about it so it's focused a bit more on pick up and play. There is a sidebar that says you can swap things out, but talk to the GM and that it might unbalance things, which isn't really a response I particularly like (but that's probably a whole other discussion).

Still will probably back it since everything else I've heard about it sounds pretty great.
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  #788  
Old 09-22-2014, 10:59 AM
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But character creation options are generally what get me interested in RPGs! I'm kind of disappointed now.
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  #789  
Old 09-22-2014, 12:11 PM
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Initial character creation is very focused on archetypes, for quick pick-up-and-play potential. However the creation rules mention that there's an opportunity to customize characters more after the first session.
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  #790  
Old 09-22-2014, 03:18 PM
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Isn't that the basic plot progession of cheesy & terrible martial arts movies though? Take one basic apprentice/sad sack, throw in a girlfriend/sister kidnapping, training montage or two and then you're off to fight the big bad?
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  #791  
Old 09-22-2014, 05:59 PM
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Isn't that the basic plot progession of cheesy & terrible martial arts movies though? Take one basic apprentice/sad sack, throw in a girlfriend/sister kidnapping, training montage or two and then you're off to fight the big bad?
Yup! Actual character creation in Feng Shui seems to focus on the "melodramatic hook" (your reason for going over the top) and working with the GM to turn that into a reason to get involved. It's less about "what are my baseline numbers" and more about "why am I about to kick every ass?"
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  #792  
Old 09-22-2014, 06:03 PM
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I think you guys might be selling me on the system now.
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  #793  
Old 09-22-2014, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Egarwaen View Post
Yup! Actual character creation in Feng Shui seems to focus on the "melodramatic hook" (your reason for going over the top) and working with the GM to turn that into a reason to get involved. It's less about "what are my baseline numbers" and more about "why am I about to kick every ass?"
It is my opinion that every session of every game should start with this question.
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  #794  
Old 09-22-2014, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
I think you guys might be selling me on the system now.
I dunno how kosher it would be, but if you back Feng Shui you get a copy of the beta draft, and if you end up disliking the rules you can always back out of it. I've been thinking of doing that because while I love stuff like the melodramatic hook, I'm less sure about the mechanics (I'm the guy who gets really annoyed when someone just says you can fix a game by houseruling it or when the advice from the authors say rules can be left up to the GM).

Last edited by kaisel; 09-22-2014 at 08:53 PM.
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  #795  
Old 09-23-2014, 05:41 AM
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What I've read so far of Feng Shui, at least, isn't very much in that school. There's a lot that's dependent on GM interpretation, but the rules are very lenient and focused on the action movie experience. By the rules as written:

- if something is necessary to advance their agenda, the characters automatically discover it. Investigative abilities are more about discovering things that make you seem cool or which provide a definite advantage in an upcoming scene.
- while fights are oriented around a very tuned action economy, the rules say that trying to deal damage is the baseline value of an action. Characters trying to deal damage and get some edge or bonus effect, or deal damage through unconventional means, should still get their baseline attack plus whatever else they're trying to do.
- many action movie stunts are automatic. The rules say to only involve a roll if there's a chance of serious injury or if there's something else on the line.

Like most of Robin Laws' work, randomization is minimal. The baseline roll is d6-d6, with the option to add in another positive d6 by expending resources. 6s on all dice explode.
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  #796  
Old 09-28-2014, 03:28 AM
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So my cousin is visiting, and on random impulse bought a copy of Sentinels of the Multiverse. Then on another random whim he just gave it to me because it doesn't fit in his luggage. It's pretty nifty! It's one of those newfangled co-op card game deals, like the Pathfinder thing, and this game I need to raise the money to get into print one of these days. There's a couple expansions which even out the numbers quite a bit, but basically it goes like this with the base game:

You have 1 of 4 villain decks sitting there, pretty much doing its own simple-AI based thing. You've got your Darkseid knockoff constantly spamming in huge swaths of wimpy minions, you've got your evil mad scientist type who just starts off with a countdown clock before he pulls the moon into the earth, and meanwhile he just kinda hides behind various forcefields and sentry guns and such, etc.

Then everyone's playing 1 of 10 heroes who are pretty mechanically distinct. The super obvious batman knockoff just kinda hides in the shadows for the first few rounds then comes out with a gadget for every occasion, while this elemental weirdo is setting up super elaborate reactionary combos dealing and taking fire and ice damage, and martyr-y angel lady is throwing around huge damage but also major self-inflicted damage over time.

And then there's 1 of 4 setting decks, throwing in neutral-ish hazards every round, like big ol' krakententacles smacking whoever has the least HP, and pterodactyls stealing people's stuff. So... there's lots of variety is my point.

Also they really aren't all that balance-concerned in the grand scheme of it. Some villains are just straight-up tougher than others, some heroes get way too big of a boost/penalty in certain environments, but meh, you work out combos of things that balance nicely.
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  #797  
Old 10-06-2014, 02:30 PM
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I ended up looking at an old Pathfinder PC I made a while ago in preparation for a possible campaign that might be happening.

Big spell lists that you have to choose exactly which two you're going to use for the day, tons of fiddly little incremental bonuses, and feats feats feats feats feats. I don't know if I can go back to Pathfinder after 5E.
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  #798  
Old 10-14-2014, 11:05 AM
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This spun off of a conversation in the whole certain hashtag thread in television games, but I figured since I was going to talk specifically about tabletop stuff, here was a better place for it so as not to derail the other thread.

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Originally Posted by Egarwaen View Post
That's very much not true. Des is a joke, and pretty much only supported by a dedicated and vocal fringe. Mainstream tabletop developers and publishers have pretty aggressive policies to expand the diversity and inclusivity of the hobby; Onyx Path, Evil Hat, MWP, Monte Cook Games, and Posthuman Studios all do, WotC does but aren't great about sticking to it. I have no idea about Privateer Press, Catalyst Game Labs, or Fantasy Flight Games, and I've heard good things about Paizo but don't have personal experience with them.

That's basically all the top names based on present top seller lists.

Community-wise? Yeah, there's still a lot of vocal shitheads around, but they're more and more marginalized and not given serious treatment. The problems with the tabletop RPG hobby have more to do with professionalism and employment practices (pay-on-publication contracts, eg) than anything else.
I'll agree that it's getting better, but it's still pretty dismal. The RPG community still has massive issues, and even the companies are still making a ton of mistakes. D&D still has its consultant issues, and while Mearls has said they're doing some diversity panel, they've not actually released any more information about it (and he said that during the summer when the consultant controversy was at its peak), and those two consultants have enough of a following that fans did make some creators step away from the hobby.

Second I was talking the tabletop community as a while, rather than just the RPG community, miniatures in particular. I mean you have Kingdom Death, Games Workshop, Raging Heroes, Relic Knights, and Infinity, all either made a ton of money on Kickstarter, or are fairly popular games, and their communities see nothing wrong with it, and tend to use the same censorship/freedom of speech arguments that some of the more toxic video game elements use in their defense.

I admit I don't know enough about CCGs to know how the art/community is for those aside from some stories from the last few years and I don't know if those have gotten better. As a whole, I feel that tabletop gaming is just as bad, if not worse, a lot of it is due to the smaller size of the hobby so more noxious voices are louder/easier to hear.

I'll agree that the RPG community as a whole has gotten better however, Paizo's done some good work, Privateer's dropped a lot of their more sexist marketing in the miniatures field. And I definitely agree that professionalism and employment practices in the tabletop field are as big a problem.
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  #799  
Old 10-14-2014, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by kaisel View Post
I'll agree that it's getting better, but it's still pretty dismal. The RPG community still has massive issues, and even the companies are still making a ton of mistakes. D&D still has its consultant issues, and while Mearls has said they're doing some diversity panel, they've not actually released any more information about it (and he said that during the summer when the consultant controversy was at its peak), and those two consultants have enough of a following that fans did make some creators step away from the hobby.
They've also been banned from RPG.net's forums, meaning they're locked out of the hobby's primary meeting place. In this, they join a long list of toxic, abusive assholes from all sides of the political spectrum. Their fans are aiding and abetting them, but are largely shouted down and shut out by the mainstream. Their damage is pretty much isolated, and they're a subject of mockery or totally ignored.

I guarantee that the fuss over their presence in the 5e PHB credits as, basically, "people we talked to about D&D" gave them more visibility, mind-share, and influence than their presence or actual contribution did. Do they need to be shut down and prevented from causing further harm? Absolutely. But this effort needs to be focused on shitty things they've actually done to be effective, not imagined sins involved in the development of a game that is, if anything, wholly contrary to their espoused philosophies.

As for WotC, I don't expect much from them. They're easily the most mainstream of RPG publishers, being owned by Hasbro, meaning they've got a ton of corporate America baggage that smaller, leaner publishers like Evil Hat or Onyx Path just plain don't. They're also, honestly, pretty irrelevant to the larger hobby or professional community since - judging from their credits sections - most of their writing & development is in-house rather than freelance. The fact that they're making a push for diversity at all - in art and in-text expression - is pretty significant.

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Second I was talking the tabletop community as a while, rather than just the RPG community, miniatures in particular.
I don't consider the two groups part of the same community or hobby. There's some overlap but, as markets go, they're remarkably disjoint. I did freelancing work for a company that made their big design push in the 90s miniatures / RPG cross-marketing. By the mid-2000s - when I was involved - they'd discarded the cross-marketing almost entirely because it just didn't work. Stuff that sells in one market doesn't sell in the other, and cross-over product tends to be niche at best in its "home" market. The vast "silent majority" for both hobbies - people who buy but don't participate much, if at all, in the community - generally play what they're into, only what they're into, and that's it.

EDIT: Similarly, if you look at CCGs, all of the "crossover" ones either failed hugely and destroyed their paired RPG lines (Doomtown / Deadlands) or wound up getting picked up by a niche fanbase that's completely different from the RPG (VTeS / Vampire: the Masquerade). L5R is the notable exception, and even there I've seen no end of grousing from each of the CCG / RPG sides of their fanbase about the other half.

Last edited by Egarwaen; 10-14-2014 at 12:08 PM.
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  #800  
Old 10-14-2014, 11:46 AM
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This was definitely a misstep, but I think everything mentioned in this piece goes a long, long way toward outweighing any contribution that Zak S and RPGPundit may have had.
man, that article is great, and makes me really happy about 5e.
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  #801  
Old 10-14-2014, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by kaisel View Post
I admit I don't know enough about CCGs to know how the art/community is for those aside from some stories from the last few years and I don't know if those have gotten better.
I would say that it has gotten better, at least in terms of Magic: The Gathering. There's a lot more diversity in representation and fewer exploitative images.
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  #802  
Old 10-14-2014, 12:15 PM
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man, that article is great, and makes me really happy about 5e.
My one complaint is that the dwarf art is all severely at odds with the description of dwarves:

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Dwarven skin ranges from deep brown to a paler hue tinged with red, but the most common shades are light brown or deep tan, like certain tones of earth. Their hair, worn long but in simple styles, is usually black, gray, or brown, though paler dwarves often have red hair.
That's actually a really interesting description! The norm for dwarves - oft a stand-in for Scandinavian / northern cultures - is that they're not white.

What do we get in the art? Red-haired pale-hued dwarf after red-haired pale-hued dwarf.
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  #803  
Old 10-14-2014, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Nich View Post
This was definitely a misstep, but I think everything mentioned in this piece goes a long, long way toward outweighing any contribution that Zak S and RPGPundit may have had.
Despite not particularly liking 5e, I gotta say the art is really good and I hope they stick with that direction. I do wish Mearls would at least acknowledge that the two consultants may have said/did some problematic stuff instead of steadfastly defending them though. But yes, I do agree that the artwork

Quote:
Originally Posted by Büge
I would say that it has gotten better, at least in terms of Magic: The Gathering. There's a lot more diversity in representation and fewer exploitative images.
That's good to hear, it seemed like that to me just based on some of the more modern art for cards, but I don't play enough Magic to really tell. My experience was with the WoW TCG which had pretty embarrassing art that you can see now in Hearthstone.

Egarwaen: I had a huge thing typed up, but I think what it comes down to is that I think acknowledging the two consultants is kind of a big deal coming fro WotC (whose D&D branch at least has a habit of sticking their foot in their mouth by not vetting contributors). Even though the consultants really didn't do a whole lot on the game itself, I think that courting their audiences, and trying to use them to gain their audiences was something that doesn't sit well with me because their audience tends to be the more toxic side of the industry, and it's a bigger shame since D&D is still the biggest game name recognition-wise.

It would be a minor thing, but for a while you got designers like Fred Hicks and Sage LaTorra defending both the consultants until they read up on both of them and realized just how bad both of the consultatns could be.

As for the minis-RPG crossover, I don't know the exact number. My group tends to dabble in a bit of everything, so my experience may be wide-off the mark, so I can amend my comment to the "tabletop miniatures community" is less welcoming toward women than the video game industry.

Though I'll agree that the RPG industry is getting better than it was even just a year ago.
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  #804  
Old 10-14-2014, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by kaisel View Post
Egarwaen: I had a huge thing typed up, but I think what it comes down to is that I think acknowledging the two consultants is kind of a big deal coming fro WotC (whose D&D branch at least has a habit of sticking their foot in their mouth by not vetting contributors). Even though the consultants really didn't do a whole lot on the game itself, I think that courting their audiences, and trying to use them to gain their audiences was something that doesn't sit well with me because their audience tends to be the more toxic side of the industry, and it's a bigger shame since D&D is still the biggest game name recognition-wise.

It would be a minor thing, but for a while you got designers like Fred Hicks and Sage LaTorra defending both the consultants until they read up on both of them and realized just how bad both of the consultatns could be.
Consider this: people who are way more involved in the community than Mike Mearls had no idea what these guys had been up to. After the decision to involve them had been made - after the book was published with their names in it - what Mearls could do or say is definitely very limited due to contract and corporate policy. He doesn't have the freedom to publicly speak his mind regarding WotC policy, especially not about a freelancer, as that probably verges on HR territory.
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  #805  
Old 10-14-2014, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Egarwaen View Post
That's very much not true. Des is a joke, and pretty much only supported by a dedicated and vocal fringe. Mainstream tabletop developers and publishers have pretty aggressive policies to expand the diversity and inclusivity of the hobby; Onyx Path, Evil Hat, MWP, Monte Cook Games, and Posthuman Studios all do, WotC does but aren't great about sticking to it. I have no idea about Privateer Press, Catalyst Game Labs, or Fantasy Flight Games, and I've heard good things about Paizo but don't have personal experience with them.
Paizo is pretty damn great on the diversity front, which is likely due to being one of the few woman-owned companies in the business. Their employment record is pretty good on at least the gender and trans fronts, not sure about race, and they make a strong effort to reflect all that in everything they publish too. Of course, when you publish on a tight monthly schedule, you can't always correct it when you request a 50 year old black man in full plate and get an 18 year old white girl in a bikini. Which is a thing that happens disturbingly often.
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  #806  
Old 10-25-2014, 10:21 PM
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Hey, finally played Fiasco. It was so amazing, can't believe the stuff we came up with in 90 minutes. Or the stuff that came out of our mouths. I'm definitely going to whip up a playset to do a prologue for our upcoming 5e D&D campaign.
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  #807  
Old 10-28-2014, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Traumadore View Post
Hey, finally played Fiasco. It was so amazing, can't believe the stuff we came up with in 90 minutes. Or the stuff that came out of our mouths. I'm definitely going to whip up a playset to do a prologue for our upcoming 5e D&D campaign.
For some reason, Fiasco's been a hard sell to people for me, which is such a damn shame because it's just buckets of fun.

Also! Looking at starting an apocalyptic campaign, possibly. What is TT's opinion on play by post? Pretty low, as I recall, I'm just checking.
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  #808  
Old 10-29-2014, 07:41 AM
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For some reason, Fiasco's been a hard sell to people for me, which is such a damn shame because it's just buckets of fun.
I have this same problem.
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  #809  
Old 10-29-2014, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traumadore
Hey, finally played Fiasco. It was so amazing, can't believe the stuff we came up with in 90 minutes. Or the stuff that came out of our mouths. I'm definitely going to whip up a playset to do a prologue for our upcoming 5e D&D campaign.
Fiasco's great, but every time I play with my group up here, it goes straight to the gutter which makes it hard for me to want to play very often, which is a damn shame.

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Originally Posted by gahitsu View Post
Also! Looking at starting an apocalyptic campaign, possibly. What is TT's opinion on play by post? Pretty low, as I recall, I'm just checking.
Play by post is hard to do well for most systems I've found. One thing to check into instead of strictly play by post would be Storium though it's super rules light. Other than that, I know play by post is possible to do well, but those games seem few and far between. I keep meaning to look for a system deliberately created for play by post or play by email to try to see if it's most systems that's the problem or just the nature of PbP.
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  #810  
Old 11-14-2014, 06:14 PM
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I'm kind of tempted to start a Drowning & Falling play by post over Thanksgiving weekend.
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