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  #10801  
Old 05-12-2019, 12:16 PM
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I really hope that the Seven of Nine/Naomi Wildman relationship from Infinite Regress keeps getting attention.

Quote:
NAOMI: Well, if I can learn to be perfect, too, then Captain Janeway will have to make me her Bridge Assistant.
SEVEN: No such rank exists aboard this vessel.
NAOMI: Not yet.
SEVEN: And you hope to achieve this goal by emulating me?
NAOMI: Are you mad?
SEVEN: No. There are many on this crew that would benefit from your example.
NAOMI: So you'll teach me?
SEVEN: Your objective is admirable. However, your neocortical development is incomplete. You would require several months of accelerated growth in a Borg maturation chamber.
They really got a great young actor to portray Naomi, and Seven has Worf quality deadpan in these interactions. I definitely laughed out loud at "No. There are many on this crew that would benefit from your example."
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  #10802  
Old 05-12-2019, 06:41 PM
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Hey, two really good episodes of DS9 just popped up. Profit and Loss is another intrigue episode with a Casablanca-inspired final act. This might be my least favourite Garak appearance so far, in that it makes Garak's motivations look a little more straight forward than in previous episodes but still, as always, he is a delight and his scene with Quark in his shop is riveting.

Blood Oath is also very good. I was expecting after all the build up that the Albino might be a more interesting and/or complicated character but overall it is quite strong. It actually reminds me of the 47 Ronin (minus, you know, 43) in that much of the story is the preamble and build up to the meeting. Great character work with some classic Trek baddies turned tragic heroes.

Here's hoping it keeps this quality. Also, more Garak episodes please. They are always a treat.
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  #10803  
Old 05-13-2019, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estragon View Post
I really hope that the Seven of Nine/Naomi Wildman relationship from Infinite Regress keeps getting attention.
You're in luck.
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  #10804  
Old 05-14-2019, 06:01 AM
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I saw the DS9 documentary last night (What We Left Behind), and I really enjoyed it! It was both interesting and funny. The theatre I watched it in was almost empty, though. There were maybe a dozen of us? I hope that's just a local thing rather than representative of how well it was received elsewhere. (Although even then it's still a bummer because I've been excited for Fathom Events stuff to actually come here and I'm worried it'll be short-lived if this is the kind of turn-out they're getting.)

It opens with a musical number of Max Grodénchik (read: Rom) singing I Left My Heart in San Francisco with parody lyrics ("I left my Quark and Captain Sisko"), and ends with another musical number sung by a quartet of Grodénchik, Armin Shimmerman (Quark), Casey Biggs (Damar), and Jeffrey Combs (Weyoun/Brunt).

My favourite factoid that I didn't know is that the reason early Sisko has no beard and no bald head is that the studio wouldn't let Brooks rock that look, even though it was his preference, because they were concerned it would be too "street" (the exec spends a good awkward 15 seconds searching for a different word to use instead and then just gives up).

Also, Ira Steven Behr at one point says that he regrets that they didn't made Garak explicitly gay and have him start a relationship with Bashir.

The 20+ minutes of HD remastered footage looks fucking amazing on the big screen and makes me very sad that we're probably never getting a full remaster. I enjoyed the draft for a first episode of season 8 more than I thought I would, although I'm not convinced it was worth as much screen time as they gave it. The end credits imply that they left a lot of stuff on the cutting room floor that I would likely have rather seen.
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  #10805  
Old 05-14-2019, 01:18 PM
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I need to see this.
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  #10806  
Old 05-14-2019, 02:22 PM
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Damn it! I bought a ticket for this specifically because JBear mentioned it here, and completely forgot it was last night. I guess at least I improved the sales numbers, but I hope there's another way to see it coming at some point.

Glad it was good, I'll definitely check it out once I figure out how.
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  #10807  
Old 05-14-2019, 02:28 PM
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It will get a digital and physical release at some point.

(I vaguely remembered August, but maybe that's a false memory.)
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  #10808  
Old 05-14-2019, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Unusual View Post
Hey, two really good episodes of DS9 just popped up. Profit and Loss is another intrigue episode with a Casablanca-inspired final act. This might be my least favourite Garak appearance so far, in that it makes Garak's motivations look a little more straight forward than in previous episodes but still, as always, he is a delight and his scene with Quark in his shop is riveting.

Blood Oath is also very good. I was expecting after all the build up that the Albino might be a more interesting and/or complicated character but overall it is quite strong. It actually reminds me of the 47 Ronin (minus, you know, 43) in that much of the story is the preamble and build up to the meeting. Great character work with some classic Trek baddies turned tragic heroes.

Here's hoping it keeps this quality. Also, more Garak episodes please. They are always a treat.
Blood Oath is always a favorite... total fan service, but totally satisfying. Michael Ansara was one of the Klingons, which is especially great because I'm a fan of his other character, the Batman villain Mr. Freeze.
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  #10809  
Old 05-14-2019, 09:49 PM
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I'm at the series finale of Voyager. This show has been Good, sometimes Very Good, sometimes pretty Whatever. So basically par for the course on the Star Trek curve.

It's notable to me that Seven of Nine gets so much attention compared to the rest of the crew and I have to wonder if it has something to do with, like, showrunners having actor favoritism? Robert Picardo got a whole lot of episodes as The Doctor as well. I'm just curious about any behind-the-scenes reasons why. Maybe the writers just had more ideas for episodes of those characters!
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  #10810  
Old 05-15-2019, 03:44 AM
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The executive staff had started the show expecting Neelix to be the breakout character, and that misfired horribly, so they were left scrambling to find something to latch on to. They had found success with Data in TNG, so they tried the same kinds of stuff with The Doctor.
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  #10811  
Old 05-15-2019, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TirMcDohl View Post
The executive staff had started the show expecting Neelix to be the breakout character, and that misfired horribly, so they were left scrambling to find something to latch on to. They had found success with Data in TNG, so they tried the same kinds of stuff with The Doctor.
Ah yes, there was an episode in season 7 that was literally the plot of Measure of a Man from TNG except about The Doctor.
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  #10812  
Old 05-15-2019, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TirMcDohl View Post
The executive staff had started the show expecting Neelix to be the breakout character, and that misfired horribly, so they were left scrambling to find something to latch on to. They had found success with Data in TNG, so they tried the same kinds of stuff with The Doctor.
Yeah, when you think about it the Doctor and Seven of Nine were both rebottling Data's whole "artificial human" thing in different ways.
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  #10813  
Old 05-15-2019, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by MetManMas View Post
Yeah, when you think about it the Doctor and Seven of Nine were both rebottling Data's whole "artificial human" thing in different ways.
Same with Spock and Odo. It's a very popular character archetype in Trek.
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  #10814  
Old 05-15-2019, 02:56 PM
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I watched an episode of DS9 last night that confirmed that baseball dies in 2042 and only 300 people watched the World Series that year. It was a middling episode, but that random line made me pretty happy (also Rumplestiltskin was there). Then again, basically all Odo did the entire episode was walk around the Promenade and radio Sisko and be mad about some weird shit that showed up there, and that was pretty great.

The previous episode had an obstinate old man who refused to move because "BAH TO PROGRESS I'm an old man and I like dirt" or whatever; it's a pretty bog standard Star Trek tradition vs. progress conflict, but I liked the scene between Sisko/Kira towards the end. The entire thing hinged on Kira's relationship with Old Man™, which felt entirely hollow but we're supposed to believe she loves him like a father after talking to him, like, once.

And then the episode ends with her burning his fucking house down and him being like "I'm gonna die now" and her saying "No you won't" and the credits just show up immediately. It felt super abrupt and super drawn out at the same time, which is impressive in a way. Just a super weirdly paced episode overall.

That said! It had a B plot that was Nog and Jake on a trading quest to turn some soy sauce into money and they had to keep trading with people for stuff, and it was insanely dumb, and I liked it A LOT.
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  #10815  
Old 05-15-2019, 03:40 PM
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That episode with Obstinate Old Man is great. Fantastic even! It works on so many levels.

You say, "The entire thing hinged on Kira's relationship with Old Man™, which felt entirely hollow but we're supposed to believe she loves him like a father after talking to him, like, once." I say phooey to this! Sure, Kira doesn't really know this guy. But she knows this guy. She's seen this guy all her life. He's a dude she can immediately identify with and can project past relationships she's had onto him because he's very relateable to her. Some people just connect when you first meet them for a number of reasons. Old Man is one of them.

And more than this specific guy all of a sudden becoming special and important overnight, this guy is important because of what he symbolizes to Kira. Kira spent her whole life fighting against The Man for guys like this, and now she finds herself on the other side of things, having to ruin this guy's life because now she's The Man and it will serve The Greater Good. This is not the shit she signed up for, and she has to seriously re-examine her beliefs and resolve. It's a really profound moment of character growth for someone who was once a freedom-fighter/terrorist who now has to put on a new shirt while still maintaining their morality/beliefs. I loved it.
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  #10816  
Old 05-15-2019, 03:40 PM
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They probably got the idea for the No-Jay Consortium from an old video file of TaleSpin Quark found in a pile of random junk.
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  #10817  
Old 05-15-2019, 04:27 PM
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I was lead to believe that Insurrection was terrible but it's maybe tied with Star Trek IV for my favorite Star Trek movie. I understand why it would do poorly commercially compared to First Contact, but as a big budget episode of The Next Generation it was very well done.

I was also lead to believe that Frakes and Sirtis' commentary track would be extremely funny, and it was. (They're more down on the movie than I am, but that's fine with me, because they're down on it in a very funny way.)

Also, I was extremely not expecting Dukat to show up again on DS9 leading a Heaven's Gate style cult for Bajorans, but I thought it basically worked. I like this version of a wraith centric story more than that one time Jake and Kira went DBZ on each other.
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  #10818  
Old 05-15-2019, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
That episode with Obstinate Old Man is great. Fantastic even! It works on so many levels.

You say, "The entire thing hinged on Kira's relationship with Old Man™, which felt entirely hollow but we're supposed to believe she loves him like a father after talking to him, like, once." I say phooey to this! Sure, Kira doesn't really know this guy. But she knows this guy. She's seen this guy all her life. He's a dude she can immediately identify with and can project past relationships she's had onto him because he's very relateable to her. Some people just connect when you first meet them for a number of reasons. Old Man is one of them.

And more than this specific guy all of a sudden becoming special and important overnight, this guy is important because of what he symbolizes to Kira. Kira spent her whole life fighting against The Man for guys like this, and now she finds herself on the other side of things, having to ruin this guy's life because now she's The Man and it will serve The Greater Good. This is not the shit she signed up for, and she has to seriously re-examine her beliefs and resolve. It's a really profound moment of character growth for someone who was once a freedom-fighter/terrorist who now has to put on a new shirt while still maintaining their morality/beliefs. I loved it.
Yeah the last bit is the part of the show I liked, and while that's not usually what I watch Star Trek for, it was actually good and I liked it! If DS9 has more of this, which my understanding is that it indeed does, then I think I'll like it.

And I get the IDEA of the first part of what you said, I just don't think it worked in execution. It just felt really dragged out.

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Originally Posted by estragon View Post
I was lead to believe that Insurrection was terrible but it's maybe tied with Star Trek IV for my favorite Star Trek movie. I understand why it would do poorly commercially compared to First Contact, but as a big budget episode of The Next Generation it was very well done.
Yeah the problem with that movie is what you just said; it's essentially a big budget TV episode, but people have different expectations with Movie Trek™. I thought it was Kinda Bad But Still Enjoyable™
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  #10819  
Old 05-15-2019, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estragon View Post
Also, I was extremely not expecting Dukat to show up again on DS9 leading a Heaven's Gate style cult for Bajorans, but I thought it basically worked. I like this version of a wraith centric story more than that one time Jake and Kira went DBZ on each other.
Wellll....
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  #10820  
Old 05-15-2019, 11:17 PM
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That episode, yeesh. Dukat went from regular villainy to cartoonish supervillainy at that point. Also, it's kind of distressing how Bajorans vacillate from determined in the face of adversity to superstitious and hopelessly gullible.

Insurrection wore on my nerves. They killed a dude with plastic surgery for cryin' out loud!
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  #10821  
Old 05-16-2019, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by estragon View Post
Also, I was extremely not expecting Dukat to show up again on DS9 leading a Heaven's Gate style cult for Bajorans, but I thought it basically worked. I like this version of a wraith centric story more than that one time Jake and Kira went DBZ on each other.
I didn't see this episode until like a few years ago so I always figured Dukat's arc was much more solid. He goes from swearing revenge on Sisko and Bajor to actually doing it, being laser-focused on that goal and thereby throwing in with the Pah Wraiths because it's the fastest and most deliciously appropriate way to tear down Sisko and beat him at his own game.
But this episode happens right in the middle of that and serves only as a speed bump that resets Dukat's character, putting his quest on hold, portraying him as being directionless and content to sit on his old bag of tricks. It's as if the writers briefly forgot what they were doing with him.
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  #10822  
Old 05-16-2019, 09:13 AM
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I kind of figure that entering into a close personal relationship with a godlike being while you are very mentally unwell could have a major impact on the trajectory of your life.

So . . . I don't see it as particularly weird or off.
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  #10823  
Old 05-16-2019, 09:22 AM
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I didn't think Dukat's storyline really went off the rails until, like, the very end of the show, and even then the writers maintained consistency with his personality the whole time.
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  #10824  
Old 05-16-2019, 09:29 AM
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Whoever made the decision for the grandiose antagonist in Voyager's Counterpoint to have an underling named Prax that he barked orders at constantly was a genius.

I could not get enough of that guy yelling, "Prax!"
An extremely good name to yell, over and over. It's a real ear worm.
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  #10825  
Old 05-17-2019, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alixsar View Post
That said! It had a B plot that was Nog and Jake on a trading quest to turn some soy sauce into money and they had to keep trading with people for stuff, and it was insanely dumb, and I liked it A LOT.
I just realized that they actually did similar plots in a few episodes later on in the show.
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  #10826  
Old 05-18-2019, 11:41 AM
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I'm watching the "prayer in schools" episode of DS9, and Bajoran Priestess Lady is exuding a very powerful Smug White Middle Class Evangelical Christian™ energy, and it hurts me physically

Which like hey good job on the performance, but also please shut up GAWSH

Edit: Okay, at least now she's been outed as Blatantly Evil™, so I guess it's okay

Edit Edit: I think this episode works pretty well, especially because it really highlights what makes DS9 and TNG different. It starts off like TNG; a polite disagreement between differing philosophies, but then it ends with a terrorist bombing and attempted political assassination, and the whole thing was Bajoran Priestess Lady just doing a vicious power grab and manipulating her followers into doing her bidding. It really is a "darker" Star Trek that still feels like, ya know, the hopeful/eutopian Star Trek from before.

Last edited by Alixsar; 05-18-2019 at 12:06 PM.
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  #10827  
Old 05-18-2019, 03:50 PM
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And she's played by none other than Nurse Ratched!
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