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  #10501  
Old 11-04-2018, 08:38 PM
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Scanning through The Motion Picture, as one does. And I think if anything qualifies as the most enigmatic line in Star Trek history, space pedophile Stephen Collin's one about [a depressingly optimistic] Voyager 6 disappearing into "What they used to call a black hole" is probably up there.

Like, Black Holes are a theoretical Relativistic construct, incredibly supported by widely-confirmed observational data. But I'd honestly be fascinated what the intent of the line was. TMP arguably has a boring script, but generally not a dumb one. And I really want to know what Alan Dean Foster and Harold Livingston meant in that moment.

Like, The Motion Picture, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, and Alien are the only real primo prestige sci-fi pictures that we got contemporary of the 70s "Age of Aquarius" and "In Search of" era, which is a drastic cultural disservice (also acknowledging second-stringers like Dark Star, The Andromeda Strain, and Capricorn One).

But what did they think Black Holes really were, man? Is the sheer physical terror of Singularity not enough? Were they throwing pre-emptive shade at 70s Disney as they stumbled through the weeds, and somehow made a movie less hip than The Motion Picture?
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  #10502  
Old 11-04-2018, 08:41 PM
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A coy reference to wormholes probably?
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  #10503  
Old 11-04-2018, 08:57 PM
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Yeah, well, actually, yes.

In a movie whose third special effects showcase (and, infamously, the only one Robert & Abel Associates handed in before getting taken off the movie), is a scene where the Enterprise gets thrown into a wormhole, I suppose that's actually something like a setup and payoff.

Sasuga, Foster-kun.
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  #10504  
Old 11-05-2018, 12:36 AM
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If TMP is boring, then I like boring. Did you watch the theatrical cut? Or the Director's Cut? I really wish Paramount would go back and remake the Director's Cut in HD.

I'm going through TNG, and am at Season 3 right now. It's kinda crazy to me how much less I'm enjoying TNG than literally every other Star Trek in the series I recently rewatched. But that's probably because I've only rewatched the other shows a couple of times, and still have the scripts for most TNG episodes memorized like the back of my hand. Some interesting things I hadn't ever taken notice of previously about the show:

- How TNG handles ranks is fascinating/weird. Later shows (probably beginning with Generations) makes a big deal out of when characters get promotions. In Season 2, Geordi gets a slap on the back for becoming a Lieutenant and nothing more. In Season 3, he's suddenly a Lt. Commander with nary a single mention of what happened. Same with Worf when he becomes a full Lieutenant. O'Brien starts out a Lieutenant, but later gets demotions/retcons into an enlisted man? Data is the 3rd in Command, but he's only a Lt. Commander, and to my memory never once gets a promotion in the show or films. Meanwhile, Troi gets a promotion to a full Commander, Crusher/Pulaski is a full Commander, and both Crusher and Troi become line officers, but despite outranking Data, Data still stays 3rd in command? Wesley becomes a full Ensign at some point, but then goes to the academy and loses his rank? Also, Wesley is the only character with a different combadge for some reason. His is completely silver instead of having the gold oval. Why?

- The switch in uniforms in Season 3 is a well-discussed thing. But I'm super fascinated by it. Most of the BG characters in Season 3 still are wearing the S1&2 uniforms. But characters with speaking roles all get the new ones. And the new ones look rather shabby in contrast. I don't remember them looking this way back in the day, but in HD you can see all the seams in the fabric. There are quite a few uniforms early in Season 3 where the seams are blatant and garish and haphazard in an attempt to make them fit the actors better, but in a way that feels lazy or impromptu. It probably didn't show up on SD TVs at all back in the day, but here remastered it's a real eyesore. I imagine after a while, they'll get re-tailored, but it's something I'm obsessing over right now while watching.

- Troi gets a bad rap for not having much to do on the ship or practicing questionable psychiatry. But so far, more often than not, she's giving Picard more useful advice and centering his perspective more than just about any other crew member. It's just too bad they made her wear dumb outfits.

- The Troi x Riker, and Crusher x Picard plots get abandoned somewhere along the lines in Season 2 & 3, and that bothers me. Season 1 is probably one of the worst seasons of Star Trek there is, but the sexual chemistry and innuendo between the cast was fun. Except for that one time Tasha Yar hits on Picard in a moment of weakness? That was just really weird.
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  #10505  
Old 11-05-2018, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
If TMP is boring, then I like boring. Did you watch the theatrical cut? Or the Director's Cut? I really wish Paramount would go back and remake the Director's Cut in HD.
Theatrical cut. It just looks too good in HD (well, the SFX does at least).

It's been a while since I've seen the directors cut, but I remember being up and down on the changes. There's some unalloyed good stuff, like the seemless SFX drop-ins for stuff that Trumbull clearly couldn't get in on time with the theatrical version (the second attack on the Enterprise, the probe invading). But I'm a lot more ambivalent about the other stuff - I thought the full exterior shots for V'Ger were unnecessary, and sort of diminished its mystery, that the new CGI exteriors look even more out of place than than those glorious 70s sci-fi mattes, and that the extended sequence of going into V'Ger's core (the biggest change, arguably) was especially unnecessary, since the dialogue only reiterates themes from both the immediately preceding scene, and the much more impactful one where Spock re-centers on the operating table.
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  #10506  
Old 11-05-2018, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Peach View Post
Like, The Motion Picture, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, and Alien are the only real primo prestige sci-fi pictures that we got contemporary of the 70s "Age of Aquarius" and "In Search of" era, which is a drastic cultural disservice (also acknowledging second-stringers like Dark Star, The Andromeda Strain, and Capricorn One).
I'd throw Silent Running in among the more high-budget weirdo 70s sci-fi films.
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  #10507  
Old 11-05-2018, 02:21 PM
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Silent Running is too preachy and obvious in the first act but when it gets going, it's pretty damned great.
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  #10508  
Old 11-07-2018, 04:51 AM
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Boy, DS9 sure loves to torture O'Brien, huh?
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  #10509  
Old 11-07-2018, 07:20 AM
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The character Miles O'Brien was subjected to such a pervasive malevolent spirit in the form of O'Brien-must-suffer episodes that it spilled over out of the realm of fiction and caused the news anchor Miles O'Brien to lose an arm in a bizarre accident.
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  #10510  
Old 11-07-2018, 07:34 AM
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It's still not as egregious as how often Harry Kim got dumped on. Kim might well be the Trek character with the most onscreen deaths.

(and he can't get a promotion to save his life)
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  #10511  
Old 11-07-2018, 08:03 AM
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Boy, DS9 sure loves to torture O'Brien, huh?
At least once a season. Colm Meaney is a damn good actor.
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  #10512  
Old 11-07-2018, 08:13 AM
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Colm Meaney is a damn good actor.
Just saw his "annoyed by Bashir" performance in The Storyteller and it was . . . so perfect.
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  #10513  
Old 11-07-2018, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meditative_Zebra View Post
The character Miles O'Brien was subjected to such a pervasive malevolent spirit in the form of O'Brien-must-suffer episodes that it spilled over out of the realm of fiction and caused the news anchor Miles O'Brien to lose an arm in a bizarre accident.
This sounds pretty creepy when you consider he'd always come into sickbay with a shoulder injury.
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  #10514  
Old 11-07-2018, 04:48 PM
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Yeah, my first thought was "Kayaking accident?"
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  #10515  
Old 11-07-2018, 08:01 PM
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This sounds pretty creepy when you consider he'd always come into sickbay with a shoulder injury.
Nah, that was just his Everyman appeal. OíBrien is supposed to be this relateable, regular guy with regular guy problems. So the chronic sports injury because he keeps playing that one sport heís probably too old to is just that.

Or, if you want to do a gay reading of his and Julianís relationship, itís his regular excuse to keep coming in to see his beloved doctor.
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  #10516  
Old 11-10-2018, 05:50 AM
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So, apparently Michelle Yeoh is also in talks for a spin-off? She's easily the best actor on Discovery so I'd be all for it.

That's what, four Star Trek shows? After six shows in fifty years? Better enjoy this smorgasboard of Trek because there's no way all these new ones survive. I wonder if Stewart's gig is a mini series.
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Or, if you want to do a gay reading of his and Julianís relationship, itís his regular excuse to keep coming in to see his beloved doctor.
It's hilariously easy to justify this reading, to the point where I wonder if it was intentional.
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  #10517  
Old 11-10-2018, 06:23 AM
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I'm not sure what form Stewart's show will take, but I'm pretty sure I've read somewheres that they plan for it to be a multi-seasonal thing, not just a one-off.
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  #10518  
Old 11-11-2018, 09:48 AM
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DS9's Dramatis Persona is reminiscent of the Naked episodes of TOS and TNG in that it's a season 1 episode where basically everybody's personality changes for Space Magic Reasons. But I think this is the first one that really worked because it's late enough in the season that the characters have established personalities to deviate from, and also the specific personality change is that everyone becomes a scheming, scenery chewing ham who lives for drama and isn't here to make friends, which is a lot more fun than drunk/uninhibited.

(Also, uhhh there are only two more episodes in the season and I keep wondering when this show is supposed to start getting bad? From cultural osmosis I thought season one was supposed to be a slog where everyone is desperate for a skip list or whatever, but so far my biggest complaint is that Captive Pursuit could have used a substantial B-plot. Also, I'm watching in broadcast order*, and I would definitely take this era of DS9 over the same era of DS9.)

*With the caveat that I watched the first 4 and 1/2 season of TNG and then took a few years off before going back to TOS, then picking up where I left off.
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  #10519  
Old 11-11-2018, 10:43 AM
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I was also pleasantly surprised by the quality of season one of DS9. I think it might be that the show's quality ratchets up once it finds its footing so it looks less good in comparison? The only part that made me really roll my eyes was Keiko opening a school with no teaching experience. Why even throw in that she has no teaching experience? Have her double major or something.

I was relieved when they started making fewer doofy decisions like sending the entire senior staff on life-threatening away missions. Who's running the station? Quark?
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  #10520  
Old 11-11-2018, 11:13 AM
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The only part that made me really roll my eyes was Keiko opening a school with no teaching experience. Why even throw in that she has no teaching experience? Have her double major or something.
Yeah, that was hilarious.

I think that since the initial concept of DS9 was to be like a western frontier outpost, the idea was that they would also have a school in the style of that trope where it's just somebody's mom doing their best for the children.

In general though, Star Trek falls apart if you start to think too much about whether people are following Best Practices (or even bare minimum ethical guidelines) for their professions. So I just . . . don't.
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  #10521  
Old 11-11-2018, 02:08 PM
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Also, uhhh there are only two more episodes in the season and I keep wondering when this show is supposed to start getting bad? From cultural osmosis I thought season one was supposed to be a slog...
I hope by now you've learned that Star Trek fans are full of shit. DS9 S1 is bad is a meme that's probably a holdover from back in the day with TNG-fans having whiplash over the fact that DS9 was not!TNG and thus bad. I know that was definitely the case for me.

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The only part that made me really roll my eyes was Keiko opening a school with no teaching experience.


What if I told you, every teacher begins their career with no teaching experience?
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  #10522  
Old 11-11-2018, 02:49 PM
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What if I told you, every teacher begins their career with no teaching experience?
I think he means starting one with no experience, not teaching with no experience.
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  #10523  
Old 11-11-2018, 03:03 PM
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What if I told you, every teacher begins their career with no teaching experience?
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  #10524  
Old 11-11-2018, 03:26 PM
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It would not be much of a stretch for a massively advanced future society to just have a drop and use school curricula and materials-to-be-replicated list for just such a purpose.
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  #10525  
Old 11-11-2018, 03:35 PM
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Emergency Holographic Teacher
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  #10526  
Old 11-11-2018, 03:54 PM
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In general though, Star Trek falls apart if you start to think too much about whether people are following Best Practices (or even bare minimum ethical guidelines) for their professions. So I just . . . don't.
Speaking of this, it's starting to become hilarious how Crusher has become the, "Welp, I guess it's time to perform an illegal autopsy!" character.

The demands of the plot ensure that her judgement is always right to do so, but she still comes across to me as just a little too trigger happy for corpse desecration.

(I'm sure this stood out less when it took years and years for all these episodes to trickle out . . . But still funny to me.)
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  #10527  
Old 11-11-2018, 04:37 PM
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Speaking of this, it's starting to become hilarious how Crusher has become the, "Welp, I guess it's time to perform an illegal autopsy!" character.

The demands of the plot ensure that her judgement is always right to do so, but she still comes across to me as just a little too trigger happy for corpse desecration.

(I'm sure this stood out less when it took years and years for all these episodes to trickle out . . . But still funny to me.)
Part of the reasons why I liked Chakotay was he would often step in and be like, "Hey, we don't know these people's death rituals, in order to respect their dead we can't so much as point a tricorder at these cadavers."
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  #10528  
Old 11-16-2018, 04:45 AM
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I really like how DS9 handles its kid characters, particularly after dumb ol' Wesley. When they do end up on adventures, they react to them the way a kid would, and if they help out, they help out the way a kid would. They make Jake out to be a bit of a genius but he still makes stupid decisions all the time because he's young. It's also cool how they manage to get dramatic tension out of Jake and Ben while keeping their relationship loving and healthy.
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  #10529  
Old 11-16-2018, 06:40 PM
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Because there were scenes of Ben and Jake just bonding, shooting the breeze, talking about his schoolwork, or his writing, or the current events on the station. We never got that kind of chemistry between Beverly and Wes.
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  #10530  
Old 11-20-2018, 02:42 PM
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More TNG. I don't have a lot to say about this rewatch, at least nothing that probably hasn't been said a million times before by others. Just finished watching "Sarek". An obviously good episode, but one that still carried subconscious resentment heldover from being a child. It was a disturbing episode to see as a little kid - one of your heroes ravished and made small by time. As an adult I appreciate it much more, but it hits even harder.

One thing I never noticed, and which I adore for its subtlety, is the final scene in the transporter room. Picard and Sarek bid each other farewell, and briefly quip about how they now share a bond of understanding that strengthens each other. And while it's easy to dismiss it as pleasantries and kind words (which I always had, given Picard & Sarek's penchant for loquaciousness), it's a lot more and can be taken at face value. Because just as the transporter beam engages, Sarek reaches out and takes the hand of his wife. Which is just a beautiful moment with so much packed into it, but if you blink you'd completely miss. The implication being that Sarek held so much regret and sadness over his inability to share his feelings for his loved ones, and the mind-meld with Picard helped him make strides there so he could find the strength and resolve to show the tenderness he'd always wanted to but stopped himself from doing. Good stuff
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