The Return of Talking Time

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  #31  
Old 04-25-2019, 07:53 PM
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Oh, yeah, I forgot, Nat and Hawkeye fighting to commit suicide definitely felt silly. Also Hawkeye’s coming out of this with a resurrected family so he’s not going to die but come on I’d rather Hawkeye die than Natasha. I did think the opening with Hawkeye’s family worked but if you’re going to make me choose between him and... any Avenger that’s not a hard choice.

Natalie Portman filmed new stuff (?) but like didn’t interact with anyone? Powerful.

When all the Avengers come back for the third act 😭😭😭😭😭🥰🥰🥰🥰🥰

Actually the A-Force moment felt weird to me. It was a nice moment but also distracting because I have seen the other movies, and also this movie, and I know that vastly more characters are men than women. Why are the comparatively few women suddenly a team for this task? Anyway, congrats to them all.

Was satisfied with the Nebula content!

America’s ass!!
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  #32  
Old 04-25-2019, 08:05 PM
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It was exactly like a comic book crossover, for good and bad. Very bloated, good character work, funny when it needed to be. It had all the same flaws that Infinity War had, but an extra forty minutes, essentially to squeeze in the Doctor Who style lingering goodbyes.

This is how you keep secrets on a huge blockbuster movie: most scenes have three or fewer actors, sets are either tiny or completely green screen. Tons of cameo appearances, but many have no lines. This script was cut into three page chunks and no one at any point had the entire thing at once, and that includes the writers.

I'm not disappointed, I had a great time. My kid cried when Tony bought it! I teared up at Cap's ending! But there's a lot of daylight between the early reviews and the movie I just saw.
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  #33  
Old 04-25-2019, 08:07 PM
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Also wondering if the Black Widow movie is a fake out. They are not really giving her anything to work with in these movies, I don't even know what a solo movie would look like.
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  #34  
Old 04-25-2019, 08:13 PM
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I’m sure whatever’s truly happening will only render this and all subsequent soul stone sacrifices even more dramatically inert.
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  #35  
Old 04-25-2019, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Excitemike View Post
This is how you keep secrets on a huge blockbuster movie: most scenes have three or fewer actors, sets are either tiny or completely green screen. Tons of cameo appearances, but many have no lines. This script was cut into three page chunks and no one at any point had the entire thing at once, and that includes the writers.
haven't both captain marvel and spiderman mentioned that they weren't given the script pages until the day they were shooting and even then they weren't given any context to what's actually supposed to be happening in their scenes (especially ones that involved fight scenes or heavy green screen use) too? seems like not a great way to film a movie, tbh.
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  #36  
Old 04-25-2019, 08:16 PM
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So Peter Parker gets turned to dust. Then 5 years go by, then he comes back and fights in the Battle for Mordor. Now he... goes back to school? And Ned is there! Like "hey buddy, good to see you". Why is Ned still in high school? Shouldn't he be like 20??
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  #37  
Old 04-25-2019, 08:17 PM
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Oh also the scene that everyone on twitter was making fun of Hawkeye’s hair for happened right after Natasha’s death. Not entirely the film’s fault but, for me... felt goofy.

Anyway, I too was not blown away but I definitely enjoyed this more than Infinity War.
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  #38  
Old 04-25-2019, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Excitemike View Post
So Peter Parker gets turned to dust. Then 5 years go by, then he comes back and fights in the Battle for Mordor. Now he... goes back to school? And Ned is there! Like "hey buddy, good to see you". Why is Ned still in high school? Shouldn't he be like 20??
Ned died, too, I think is the implication. MJ as well if the sequel apparently takes place after this. (was wondering if it wasn’t going to be one more prequel, but apparently not)
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  #39  
Old 04-25-2019, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Pajaro Pete View Post
haven't both captain marvel and spiderman mentioned that they weren't given the script pages until the day they were shooting and even then they weren't given any context to what's actually supposed to be happening in their scenes (especially ones that involved fight scenes or heavy green screen use) too? seems like not a great way to film a movie, tbh.
The Russos had some quote about concealing the truth of what Spider-Man is fighting from Tom Holland. Anyway, I personally do not have spoilerphobia and would wish it away from civilization had I the infinity gems but I do think they are right... it probably doesn’t matter for Tom Holland’s performance that he knows what random bits of CGI he’s fighting for a few seconds.
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  #40  
Old 04-25-2019, 08:23 PM
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I'm sure the entire cast from the first spider Man were turned to dust and came back to this extremely normal world where everyone has been grieving for five years. It must be really stressful and they need a vacation. From their grieving families who just got them back.
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  #41  
Old 04-25-2019, 08:35 PM
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EXT.: VORMIR, NIGHT:

CAPTAIN AMERICA: ...
RED SKULL: ...
CAPTAIN AMERICA: I, uh. I'm here to return this... stone.
RED SKULL: ...
CAPTAIN AMERICA: ...
RED SKULL: ...Thanks.
CAPTAIN AMERICA: So... how've you b--
RED SKULL: Just go.
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  #42  
Old 04-25-2019, 08:41 PM
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Default I can't stop thinking about this

CAPTAIN AMERICA: You know funny story I actually said Hail Hydra earlier today
RED SKULL: No shit
CAPTAIN AMERICA: Yeah thought you'd like that
RED SKULL: ...
CAPTAIN AMERICA: ...
RED SKULL: Anyway I've got a lot of things to do, so
CAPTAIN AMERICA: Right yeah I should go
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  #43  
Old 04-25-2019, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Excitemike View Post
It was exactly like a comic book crossover, for good and bad. Very bloated, good character work, funny when it needed to be. It had all the same flaws that Infinity War had, but an extra forty minutes, essentially to squeeze in the Doctor Who style lingering goodbyes.

This is how you keep secrets on a huge blockbuster movie: most scenes have three or fewer actors, sets are either tiny or completely green screen. Tons of cameo appearances, but many have no lines. This script was cut into three page chunks and no one at any point had the entire thing at once, and that includes the writers.

I'm not disappointed, I had a great time. My kid cried when Tony bought it! I teared up at Cap's ending! But there's a lot of daylight between the early reviews and the movie I just saw.
Yeah, this is pretty much my take. I might have liked it a little less than you. Some really good scenes; a real mess of a movie. Good endings for some characters, some characters get forgotten for nearly 2 hours.

I think I would feel a lot different if that climactic fight scene didn't fall completely flat for me. It really wanted to give people the moments they wanted, but to do so they sacrificed all sense of geography or place. Characters just appear where they need to appear, whether it makes sense that they got there or not. Most of the "this character meets that character" moments felt completely contrived to me in a really not fun way. Thing is, I think they mostly got those right in Infinity War. Comic crossovers are messy and frequently nonsensical, so was Endgame.
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  #44  
Old 04-26-2019, 12:04 AM
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I really liked it!

~Banner!Hulk's commentary on Old!Hulk was probably my favorite joke. *bops car* "grr, arrgh" *half-heartedly tosses motorcycle* Also I can't believe it took them this long to finally figure out how to make Hulk actually look like Mark Ruffalo.

~The scene where everyone comes back out of the portals got me teary, I was definitely misty for Tony, but it wasn't until Cap and Carter dancing that I actually got some tears. Oddly enough, the main cast roll with the signatures got me again once it hit cap and tony.

~SUDDENLY, GIRL POWER TEAM ASSEMBLE was a bit on-the-nose and a little cringeworthy, especially since they did basically the exact same scene in Infinity War too, but it was still neat I guess

~CapMarvel's new haircut >>>>>> the long cut from beginning & solo movie but I'm still not a fan of Larson in the role? But her tearing through the ship and nearly dismembering Thanos solo were both pretty awesome (though after she got stone-blasted she just... kinda disappeared?)

~I can't believe they showed Thanos's whole dick for that long

~Cap with the hammer was an awesome moment and one of the (to be fair, many) scenes with the most applause. That says, he picks it up and takes it into the past with him, but uh...where is it now? Also, we watched his shield get shattered. Who fixed it, and how that fast? (Wakanda I guess, maybe?) (What shield was that he brought for Sam? The original one? He didn't take it back in time with him. Did he take it from his other past self? Wouldn't he have unfrozen again later?)

~I hope this means we get a solo Falcon America movie, but will we?

~I really wish it had been Hawkeye instead of BW. She was already the one with the least going on in the whole team and now she gets written out. Also, sending them together to the soul stone was kind of a dick move. Did they not remember how getting the soul stone worked? Nebula was right there and she knew what Thanos did to Gamora. "These two like each other a lot, right? Yeah, good, they should go get the stone. It uh...needs a bond of friendship, yeah."
~Then again Nebula did have to murder herself, so I guess she's gonna have some stuff to work out in therapy
~So Vision is still dead, then? Gonna be awkward for that TV show with him they're planning. (Wait, which stone was in his head? Is there gonna be a way to rebuild him? And Tony's dead now, so...)
~Loki still dead from Infinity War, but Avengers 1 Loki might be out there somewhere, so
~Gamora is still dead from infinity war, but we do have alternate timeline Gamora now, which will be...interesting, if not a little frustrating that we presumably have to go through that whole "liking/not liking Peter" thing over again.

~Thor...man, I really don't know about what they did with Thor here. It was funny, yeah, but like...in Ragnarok he had this whole arc about leading his people and becoming king, and in the course of this one ensemble movie he's just like "nah nevermind, fuck it, I've learned a whole new lesson and it's the exact opposite" and I guess he's gonna be another comic relief character in Guardians now? There was some meat there about his trauma over having failed, but it got completely neutered by the gags.

~I liked that it was a Heist movie at the start.

~The intro (straight to Thanos - no gems - kill him good - five years later) was a pretty strong way to open... but it never felt like five years. Everyone was living like it had happened a couple of months ago. Wouldn't somebody have formed new baseball teams by now?
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  #45  
Old 04-26-2019, 02:47 AM
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Any Widow movie can still be set in the past, like a (shudder) origin story.

Cap got the shield from the past, since it wasn't yet broken there.
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  #46  
Old 04-26-2019, 02:49 AM
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Also: FatThor was excellent; "Asgardians of the Galaxy" was one of the best jokes (along with Hulk "smash" and heil Hydra)
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  #47  
Old 04-26-2019, 04:51 AM
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A few random thoughts of no particular order or importance. Yes, they sound snarky, but that's how I communicate that I enjoyed something:

· Hawkeye becomes an unspeakable badass that has murdered entire crime syndicates over the last five years. ... Aaaaand he's better now!

· Time Travel is completely safe so long as you promise to return something to its original timeline at a later time. So the MCU works on Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure time travel rules. This is canon.

· "We're sorry, but the Soul Gem is only accepting souls of action women protagonists at this time. The Soul Gem is actually the Man Pain Gem, but we thought that name was too long."

· Captain Marvel and a few random battle scenes (like the "A-Force" pose) felt like... an expansion pack? DLC? Like you could see the edges of how these scenes could be cut without any impact on anything. But they were still great! I'd buy a season pass for all those characters.

· "We need to show that Thor killing Thanos brought him no joy, and he is having a hard time coping with his new position in his civilian life." "Okay... how about we make him a fat, drunken loser." "Okay, good, but can he also play online videogames?" "Brilliant!"

· Ultimately, I simultaneously loved and hated the finale. On one hand, it was an amazing grouping of every MCU heroic character, and some of the big moments did almost move me to tears. On the other hand, I felt like the movie wanted to have its cake and eat it too: the opening of the film, and the inglorious death of Thanos was shocking and final. Thanos was an "inevitable" force of the universe, stopping him after his conquest isn't going to bring your friends back. Buuuut we need a big climatic final battle, so Thanos is back again, and he brought his war-gorillas and space whales. It felt like a weird kind of cheating. The moral is that grief is unbearable and something you have to live with... but if tearing the timespace continuum a new asshole hands you an opportunity to pummel your abuser, may as well go with that.
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  #48  
Old 04-26-2019, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaeran View Post
CAPTAIN AMERICA: You know funny story I actually said Hail Hydra earlier today
RED SKULL: No shit
CAPTAIN AMERICA: Yeah thought you'd like that
RED SKULL: ...
CAPTAIN AMERICA: ...
RED SKULL: Anyway I've got a lot of things to do, so
CAPTAIN AMERICA: Right yeah I should go
I can't stop thinking about this. I kind of see Red Skull as completely powerless in his current form, but basically turning the Soul Planet into an intergalactic DMV just to piss Cap off in the only way he can.

CA: So do I just toss this into the bog again, or...?
RS: Well, do you have the receipt? I gave Hawkguy a receipt.
CA: What?
RS: Everyone is always so amazed to have the stone in their hand, they never check their pockets. I steal their change sometimes. I'm still evil, you know, and there is a Starbuck's on the other side of the planet.
CA: Yeah, I don't have the receipt...
RS: Well, okay, you could just give me the stone, repair the time stream and all that, but if you can present six forms of ID, I might be able to get your Black Widow back.
CA: Really? Well here...
RS: Oh, autsch. A birth certificate from the 40's? Look, just wait here. I'm going to have to skeleport over to my supervisor for a little bit. There's a copy of Highlights for Avengers over there if you want to read while you wait.
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  #49  
Old 04-26-2019, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul le Fou View Post
Who fixed it, and how that fast? (Wakanda I guess, maybe?) (What shield was that he brought for Sam? The original one? He didn't take it back in time with him. Did he take it from his other past self? Wouldn't he have unfrozen again later?)
I assume he swiped it from the past, yeah. The rules and consequences of time travel in this movie seem really murky and built for narrative convenience.

Quote:
Also, sending them together to the soul stone was kind of a dick move. Did they not remember how getting the soul stone worked? Nebula was right there and she knew what Thanos did to Gamora. "These two like each other a lot, right? Yeah, good, they should go get the stone. It uh...needs a bond of friendship, yeah."
Only Thanos and Gamora knew the rules regarding the Soul Stone and both are dead. All Nebula knows is that the two went to Vormir and Thanos came back alone with the Stone -- she had no way of knowing that a sacrifice was required to get it and probably assumed Thanos just killed Gamora once she was no longer useful. The realization that Widow and Hawkeye were unknowingly headed into that situation hit me early and hard.

Quote:
~So Vision is still dead, then? Gonna be awkward for that TV show with him they're planning. (Wait, which stone was in his head? Is there gonna be a way to rebuild him? And Tony's dead now, so...)
Vision had the yellow Mind Stone. Yeah, he's perma-dead. Presumably the TV series will be set between Civil War and Infinity War.

Quote:
~Gamora is still dead from infinity war, but we do have alternate timeline Gamora now, which will be...interesting, if not a little frustrating that we presumably have to go through that whole "liking/not liking Peter" thing over again.
Was she with Thor and the Guardians at the end? I didn't see her.
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  #50  
Old 04-26-2019, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul le Fou View Post
~Cap with the hammer was an awesome moment and one of the (to be fair, many) scenes with the most applause. That says, he picks it up and takes it into the past with him, but uh...where is it now?
My best guess is that Cap returns it to 2013 with the reality stone, so 2013 Thor has it and not screw with the timeline.
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  #51  
Old 04-26-2019, 08:07 AM
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Was she with Thor and the Guardians at the end? I didn't see her.
No she wasn't; the opening shot of that scene was Quill using a computer on the ship to search the cosmos for her.
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  #52  
Old 04-26-2019, 08:10 AM
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Oh god that's right, I don't know how I blanked that. (There was a lot going on in this movie.) Thanks.
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  #53  
Old 04-26-2019, 08:51 AM
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It occurred to me in the shower that Cap left for an indeterminate amount of time with all the stones. So any continuity problems get fixed then.

If 2014 Gamora can still be running around, then 2012 Loki is out there as well.

When they announced the Scarlet Witch/Vision show, I wondered if it would be based on the old comic miniseries, about them getting married and having kids, that turned out to be a fantasy in Wanda's head made real, and the start of a long slippery slope of using her as a magic retcon machine.

Also the Mark Maron cameo still making me giggle.
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  #54  
Old 04-26-2019, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Super Megaman X View Post
My best guess is that Cap returns it to 2013 with the reality stone, so 2013 Thor has it and not screw with the timeline.
Ahhh, good point. I AM SATISFIED WITH THIS
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  #55  
Old 04-26-2019, 11:01 AM
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I thought these were all separate timelines so Who Cares Just Get the Gems back except for Captain America staying in one tl and ending up in the final scene anyway.
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  #56  
Old 04-26-2019, 11:29 AM
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I figure Tony did a lot of the basic work with a "just undo all the time travel bullshit" snap and Cap just needed to mop up after that.


The end of the movie was a lot of bad CGI action in an unnecessarily dark environment, but no amount of that can undo how awesome it was when Cap started using Mjölnir.

The time travel heist book-ending all the previous Avengers adventurers was pretty great and I wouldn't have minded more of that.
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  #57  
Old 04-26-2019, 11:35 AM
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Ahhh, good point. I AM SATISFIED WITH THIS
*smashes cup on the ground* ANOTHER!
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  #58  
Old 04-26-2019, 11:40 AM
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After thinking about it this morning, I did really like all the time heist stuff. And the Cap/Tony/Thor v. Thanos fight. There is no way the movie actually could have ended there, but I think I would have liked it more. That final battle was a big whiff for me.
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  #59  
Old 04-26-2019, 03:23 PM
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Few things:
  • The Black Widow / Hawkeye stuff when they get to Vormir for the Soul Stone bored me quite a bit. That's a bathroom break scene if there ever was one.
  • The GIRL POWER scene during the Big Fight came across as hamfisted and a little too on the nose but I can certainly see the value for the Small Folk set (kids).
  • They brought back everybody. It was cool to see Tilda Swinton, Robert Redford, etc. in new scenes.
  • How did Tony get the stones from Thanos at the end? Maybe the action was too quick. I didn't see precisely how he did it. I assume the Stark gauntlet had nanomachines that ferreted the stones over?
  • The scenes between Tony and his daughter were some of my favorites.
  • Why is Pepper in armor? Doesn't she have that one power from the Mandarin shenanigans?
  • I'm glad the MCU didn't have X-Men/FF all this time. Those need some breathing room and there was already a bit of superhero overload at the end.
  • Brainy Hulk is Best Hulk.
  • I understand it from a narrative perspective but hitting the reset button on Gamora made me roll my eyes a bit.
  • They should keep Captain Marvel on speed dial. She LOL'd her way through most of the fight. Now I kinda want to see a Captain Marvel vs. Silver Surfer fight.
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  #60  
Old 04-26-2019, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by four-so View Post
Why is Pepper in armor? Doesn't she have that one power from the Mandarin shenanigans?
Nah, Tony "fixed" her at the end of Iron Man 3, so she can't go Super Saiyan anymore.

So, the Ancient One told Banner that the Infinity Stones "create the flow of time," which is why she didn't want to give up her Stone, since it would cause trouble for her reality. Seems kind of bad that Thanos destroyed them then, doesn't it? That never got addressed. (I'm aware that Cap returned them all to where they were taken from in the past, but that doesn't change the fact that Thanos destroys them three weeks after Infinity War.) Maybe the Ancient One was just, like, wrong.
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