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  #31  
Old 12-05-2017, 01:05 AM
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My opinion is that while I have nothing against the new song, and even consider it a pretty good ending theme, I still prefer Yub Nub.
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  #32  
Old 12-05-2017, 06:54 AM
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I also prefer Yub Nub, though the "party around the galaxy" montage leads directly into the opening chapter of the first Aftermath, where the local military police show up after the statue of Palpatine is toppled and it, uh, does not go well.
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  #33  
Old 12-05-2017, 07:39 AM
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At this point I don't even remember the original ending song that plays. Way to go, Special Editions!
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  #34  
Old 12-05-2017, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by YangusKhan View Post
At this point I don't even remember the original ending song that plays. Way to go, Special Editions!
I watched the Despecialized editions recently. I generally dislike the changes they made to the movies with the Special Editions, but I totally get why they changed the end of ROTJ. It's fine, but the the movie already spends a ton of time with Ewoks, and it doesn't need another scene with them partying at the end. Also, if you watch the Prequels, it makes sense to show people in Naboo and Coruscant celebrating. You can look up various versions of it on YouTube to compare them.




Anyway, I was home sick a few days last week and I watched Rogue One, A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back, Attack of the Clones, Revenge of the Sith, Return of the Jedi, and The Force Awakens, in that order. I wanted to try it out to see if the Machete order holds up, but I wouldn't recommend it going forward. Rogue One is not a great lead in to ANH, and it doesn't do a good job of introducing the universe. Also, while ROTJ is helped by knowing more about Anakin's story, it hurts it to be sandwiched between movies from 2005 and 2015. The Machete order was a good idea with 5 movies, but the more you add the less sense it makes.

I know that Rogue One has a pretty big following, but I just don't like the characters or care about how the Death Star plans got stolen. The troubled production hurt it somewhat as well. I will say that the filmmakers did an incredible job of making modern looking updates to the ships and technology from the original trilogy. The overall diversity of its cast is a point in its favor. I also liked that the X-Wing pilots were more diverse while including some of the pilots from the original Star Wars. Bongo Bill pointed out how ROTJ increased the Rebellion diversity, and the white maleness of the cast in the first two movies does stick out.

The Despecialized versions of the original trilogy are fantastic. ESB and ROTJ were always my favorites when I was young, but as I get older I appreciate more and more how good the original Star Wars was. Also, now that 90's/2000's CG looks relatively dated, the older effects seem even more appropriate. Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back are just head and shoulders above the rest of the movies.

I tried to go into the Prequels with an open mind based on recent discussions here that we don't need to drag up again. AOTC has a few scenes that I've always liked (most of Anakin's time on Tatooine, Obi Wan and Jango Fett's conflicts, and the start of the arena scene), and the overall character arcs are solid. But man, the stuff I don't like pulls me out of the movie hard. Scenes where Anakin complains about Obi Wan or talks about his feelings, whether because of how it's written, how it's directed, or how it's acted, and whether it's appropriate for the story or not, are not enjoyable to watch. Similarly, the romance scenes, the conveyor belt action scene, and the scenes of large groups of Jedi fighting all pull me out of the movie. Plus, there's a handful of alien designs that come across as copying certain real world stereotypes in ways that do not hold up at all. Watching this again reminds me of what I first felt when I saw this in theaters: a mix of excitement and disappointment. I can understand why some people like it, but I would be ok never watching it again.

ROTS has a lot of the same problems. There are scenes I like, intercut with scenes that make me groan and take me out of the movie. This one is not as bad as AOTC, but a lot of it is clunky or awkward or not enjoyable to watch. Something that I picked up in this watch is that it probably would have been stronger if it had spent less time with Yoda. He has a ton of screen time in this one, and I feel like he's way stronger in small doses. Also, while I think Ewan McGregor does a great job as Obi Wan, his plot thread where he chases down Grievous is really not that interesting. However, I do agree that, warts and all, this movie is important to the series. Anakin's downfall informs our reading of Luke's actions in ROTJ, Kylo Ren's arc in TFA, and probably a lot in the next two numbered movies.

As I said earlier, ROTJ wasn't helped by being wedged between movies about different eras in the story and made decades later. Also, Leia's role is regressive, Harrison Ford doesn't have much to do, the Ewoks are cheesy and take up a ton of screen time. But, Luke's Journey and his scenes with Vader and the Emperor are incredibly strong and they carry the movie. It's really the central conflict of the entire series, and everything else is either leading up to it or playing out as a result of it.

And TFA is just incredibly fun and the more I watch it the more I like it. I wish the plot was character driven instead of event/setpiece driven, but it still has really strong characters and it feels like Star Wars more than anything outside of the first two movies. It did a great job of introducing a lot of elements that I think Rian Johnson will use better than JJ Abrams did.
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  #35  
Old 12-05-2017, 11:32 AM
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My experiment with watching the series in chronological order has led me to conclude that release order is absolutely the best way to wage Star War against yourself. However, I think that it would be acceptable for Rogue One and The Force Awakens to be transposed. I expect that the Han Solo Solo Film, and probably the next Anthology flick, will probably work anywhere after the Lucas hexalogy and not be dependent on the Disney episodes.

I have a hypothesis for what's the main deal with The Force Awakens and the critical/popular reception thereof, which I will attempt to validate in the coming weekend. I warn you in advance that, whether my hunch is reflected in the film or not, it will involve a strong statement about the way viewers approach films, so let's all try to get along about it, yeah?
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  #36  
Old 12-05-2017, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongo Bill View Post
I had heard a rumor back in the day that Leia had more lines in that scene but for various reasons they couldn't get a good take of them, but now I can't find anything to corroborate it. I may have been hornswoggled.
Its pretty easy to find that rumour credible considering how it is about Carrie Fisher in the early 1980s.
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  #37  
Old 12-05-2017, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongo Bill View Post
My experiment with watching the series in chronological order has led me to conclude that release order is absolutely the best way to wage Star War against yourself. However, I think that it would be acceptable for Rogue One and The Force Awakens to be transposed. I expect that the Han Solo Solo Film, and probably the next Anthology flick, will probably work anywhere after the Lucas hexalogy and not be dependent on the Disney episodes.
I agree, Anthology films should be taken out of the viewing order altogether. Just watch them after the other movies. Did you feel that episode order detracted from the experience, or just that release order makes more sense for you?
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  #38  
Old 12-05-2017, 01:55 PM
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Apparently there are spoilers for the new movie floating around. Avoid reading YouTube Comments, Reddit posts, etc. for the next week or so if you don't want it spoiled. it might be a good time to take a break from Twitter too...
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  #39  
Old 12-05-2017, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
Apparently there are spoilers for the new movie floating around. Avoid reading YouTube Comments, Reddit posts, etc. for the next week or so if you don't want it spoiled. it might be a good time to take a break from Twitter too...
I'm reminded of when FYAD was retitled "Han Solo Gets Killed By His Son" a week before TFA dropped. Top marks.
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  #40  
Old 12-05-2017, 01:58 PM
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I grew up with the special editions on VHS, and so, I don't like Yub Nub and don't know why its better. That orchestral ending was really satisfying and it fits in more with Williams orchestral style for the whole series. The widespread celebration was also a pretty good addition, even though it doesn't make a lot of sense that the entire galaxy celebrates that its emperor just got blown up, its in the spirit of the moment.

Putting in Hayden Christensen ghost in the newer editions was still a poor choice however. Yet the Sarlaac pit has and has always had, that beak. Though I do get why the original was cooler there, and agree.
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  #41  
Old 12-05-2017, 02:59 PM
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The only lasting problem I've had with the SEs is Greedo shooting first. Sacrilege of the highest order. Han shot first, always and forever. (I also dislike the Temuera Morrison dub of Boba Fett in Empire but that happened after the character of Jango Fett was introduced, which gives it narrative consistency. I still prefer Jason Wingreen's voice.)
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  #42  
Old 12-05-2017, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
I agree, Anthology films should be taken out of the viewing order altogether. Just watch them after the other movies. Did you feel that episode order detracted from the experience, or just that release order makes more sense for you?
Rogue One immediately before A New Hope makes no damn sense at all. I think that Rogue One immediately after A New Hope might work, however.

If you mean overall, the way that ideas are introduced is a bit smoother if you follow the order that the creator(s) came up with them, but if you stick to just episodes, chronological order still works.
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  #43  
Old 12-05-2017, 03:21 PM
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R1 after ANH makes way more sense than the other way around though; R1 is pretty much entirely a commentary on the OT as a whole and a smidge of darkness to remove the mirror sheen ANH has to it.
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  #44  
Old 12-05-2017, 04:20 PM
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That would be interesting if you were just watching A New Hope and Rogue One. Im not sure if Id delay TESB for it though.
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  #45  
Old 12-05-2017, 05:16 PM
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Rogue One is interesting because we know what happens in A New Hope. I can see where it doesn't really work chronologically, or in the very least why the impact is lessened.

I recently sat down and watched the prequels and took notes with what I felt were the pros and cons of each. Now I'm wondering if I should do the same for the original trilogy, knowing full well I probably won't be able to view them with the same critical eye.
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  #46  
Old 12-05-2017, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isrieri View Post
Putting in Hayden Christensen ghost in the newer editions was still a poor choice however.
It kind of looks like he wasn't aware they were filming him for that purpose. Like "haha, what are we doing?"
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  #47  
Old 12-05-2017, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
That would be interesting if you were just watching A New Hope and Rogue One. Im not sure if Id delay TESB for it though.
I don't think it detracts any, honestly, since R1 is more about building out the setting a bit than anything super meaty as a plot.
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  #48  
Old 12-05-2017, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YangusKhan View Post
At this point I don't even remember the original ending song that plays. Way to go, Special Editions!
The internet never forgives and never forgets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by four-so View Post
Rogue One is interesting because we know what happens in A New Hope. I can see where it doesn't really work chronologically, or in the very least why the impact is lessened.
I wonder if it would help when viewing them in release order (or any order which has R1 after ANH) to consider it a secret report that was finally de-classified.
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  #49  
Old 12-05-2017, 11:07 PM
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It kind of looks like he wasn't aware they were filming him for that purpose. Like "haha, what are we doing?"
I have heard that this was exactly the case; the footage was reused from a costume test.
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  #50  
Old 12-06-2017, 04:00 AM
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I want to say something here: Han did not shoot first. Greedo never shot at all, only Han fired a shot. One shot, never a second shot to be argued about.
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  #51  
Old 12-06-2017, 05:33 AM
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This might be a moot question, but if 8 or 9 were to bring back Anakin's force ghost to have him scold Kylo Ren, who should play him?
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  #52  
Old 12-06-2017, 06:05 AM
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Hayden Christensen dubbed by James Earl Jones
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  #53  
Old 12-06-2017, 06:12 AM
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This might be a moot question, but if 8 or 9 were to bring back Anakin's force ghost to have him scold Kylo Ren, who should play him?
Gilbert Gottfried. Screeching voice.
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  #54  
Old 12-06-2017, 07:01 AM
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Shatner
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  #55  
Old 12-06-2017, 08:22 AM
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This might be a moot question, but if 8 or 9 were to bring back Anakin's force ghost to have him scold Kylo Ren, who should play him?
Hayden Christiansen.
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  #56  
Old 12-06-2017, 08:23 AM
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Hayden for sure.
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  #57  
Old 12-06-2017, 08:24 AM
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James Earl Jones voiced by Hayden Christensen.
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  #58  
Old 12-06-2017, 08:30 AM
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Here's my two cents: a look-and-sound alike of Sebastian Shaw. That would keep with the sequel trilogy's penchant for keeping things like the originals and avoiding the prequels, right?
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  #59  
Old 12-06-2017, 08:47 AM
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Digitally aged Hayden Christensen
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  #60  
Old 12-06-2017, 09:17 AM
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Probably Hadyen.
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