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Old 05-09-2017, 09:55 PM
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Default Let's Fight Over Game Informer's Top 100 RPGs of All Time

From their latest issue:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Game Informer
100. Torment: Tides of Numenera
99. Dragon Quest III
98. Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines
97. Dark Cloud 2
96. Lost Odyssey
95. The World Ends With You
94. Golden Sun
93. Pillars of Eternity
92. Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together
91. Bastion
90. Panzer Dragoon Saga
89. Tales of Symphonia
88. Radiata Stories
87. Vagrant Story
86. Pools of Radiance
85. Might & Magic: World of Xeen
84. Horizon: Zero Dawn
83. Xenoblade Chronicles
82. South Park: The Stick of Truth
81. Destiny
80. Odin Sphere
79. Dragon's Dogma
78. Wasteland
77. Radiant Historia
76. Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar
75. Shadow Hearts: Covenant
74. Monster Hunter Generations
73. Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
72. Paper Mario
71. Jade Empire
70. Undertale
69. Disgaea: Hour of Darkness
68. Divinity: Original Sin
67. Path of Exile
66. XCOM: Enemy Unknown
65. Mass Effect
64. Darkest Dungeon
63. Valkyria Chronicles
62. Baldur's Gate
61. The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings
60. Icewind Dale II
59. Chrono Cross
58. Tales of the Unknown, Vol. 1: The Bard's Tale
57. Dragon Age: Inquisition
56. Fable II
55. Skies of Arcadia
54. Grandia II
53. Star Ocean: The Second Story
52. The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
51. Dragon Quest VII: Journey of the Cursed King
50. Pokemon Gold & Silver
49. Xenogears
48. Persona 3
47. The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
46. Demon's Souls
45. Mass Effect 3
44. Fire Emblem: Awakening
43. Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord
42. Shadowrun
41. Xenosaga: Episode I - Der Wille zur Macht
40. Neverwinter Nights
39. Fallout
38. System Shock 2
37. Diablo III
36. Fallout: New Vegas
35. Final Fantasy X
34. Phantasy Star IV: The End of the Millenium
33. Final Fantasy
32. Valkyrie Profile
31. Ultima VII: The Black Gate
30. Persona 4
29. Suikoden II
28. Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars
27. Earthbound
26. Dragon Age: Origins
25. Kingdom Hearts II
24. Dark Souls
23. Final Fantasy IV
22. EverQuest
21. The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
20. Diablo
19. Persona 5
18. Final Fantasy VII
17. Ultima Online
16. Secret of Mana
15. Pokemon Red & Blue
14. Deus Ex
13. Planescape: Torment
12. Fallout 3
11. Bloodborne
10. Final Fantasy Tactics
9. Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
8. Diablo II
7. Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
6. World of Warcraft
5. The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
4. Mass Effect 2
3. Chrono Trigger
2. Final Fantasy VI
1. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
Some of these are just head scratchers...

NOW FITE ME!

*throws the first punch*
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  #2  
Old 05-09-2017, 09:58 PM
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xenosaga is not better than xenogears is not better than xenoblade
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:00 PM
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how is bastion an rpg

it's even less of an rpg than legend of zelda
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:00 PM
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Is Destiny or Fable 2 or Odin Sphere even RPGs?

Is BotW?!
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:01 PM
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Off the a quick scan of the list, my first thought is Breath of the Wild the only Zelda game that counts as an RPG? And it counts, but there are 46 RPGs better than it? Including Xenosaga Episode 1? Are they saying Xenosaga is a better game than Breath of the Wild or that it more accurately reflects their idea of an RPG? WTF is this list?
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:01 PM
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Bloodborne as RPG, and the 11th best RPG of all time?

I haven't played it - I assume it's great, but that's weird as hell.

Edit: Horizon Zero Dawn as RPG? What?
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:03 PM
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Does their top 100 contain our top 50?
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:03 PM
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also, anybody jockriding Deus Ex that hard hasn't tried to play it again in at least fifteen years.
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Raider Dr. Jones View Post
also, anybody jockriding Deus Ex that hard hasn't tried to play it again in at least fifteen years.
You think that's hard to play try Ultima On-line...
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:07 PM
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Upon further examination, that sure is a list of games that can largely be considered RPGs, apparently in no particular order.
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rascally Badger View Post
Upon further examination, that sure is a list of games that can largely be considered RPGs, apparently in no particular order.
yeah. it doesn't even really seem to be in optimized argument-starting order? weird. if they did it by weighted voting as opposed to the editorial staff actually hashing it out among themselves I guess that could explain it.
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Raider Dr. Jones View Post
also, anybody jockriding Deus Ex that hard hasn't tried to play it again in at least fifteen years.
Yeah, I enjoy old RPGs and all but nostalgia is very good at blinding people to a game's flaws, like how people who played Banjo-Kazooie when they were younger unironically think it's better than Yooka-Laylee, or how fans to this day will say with a straight face that Ocarina of Time is still the Best Game Ever when literally every 3D Zelda after it (even the "bad" ones) tend to play a lot better.

That said: Dragon Quest III's only 99? What the fucking shit?! I know it's never been as popular in the US as Final Fantasy or Pokémon, but it was a HUGE deal in Japan.
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:23 PM
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DQ3 is another case of an old game not aging as well as I wish it had. I played the SFC remake last year, and while it does have a lot of good points, the remake, with all of its more modern improvements, is still really lacking and dated, and has a lot of unfriendly ways you can get screwed over randomly.

edit: For a lot of the modern games, I get why they're on the list. Everything can be classified as RPG now because games all have EXP and levels and other numbers to go up that give you incremental improvements to draw out the game further. I do still totally agree with other posters saying this is a random slapdash list. I think they just had a few guys name 100 RPGs, wrote them down, then only bothered to order the top 10 or so according to what they thought would give them nerd cred.
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:43 PM
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Wait, is Bloodborne any less of an RPG than the Dark Souls games? I don't really see a stark difference between those games and, say, the combat portions of Terranigma.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Raider Dr. Jones View Post
yeah. it doesn't even really seem to be in optimized argument-starting order? weird. if they did it by weighted voting as opposed to the editorial staff actually hashing it out among themselves I guess that could explain it.
I'm pretty sure they hashed it out via a group discussion, like every list of this type from major websites. Having listened to a lot of podcasts of this sort (including last week's Game Informer podcast on this), I always hear that individual staff members will strategically decide between making a passionate case for an unpopular favorite that is doomed to rank poorly anyway vs expending that political capital on a more popular game that can be moved higher up.

I'm on record saying there is a better system: let everyone create an individual list, and then combine them in a round robin fashion instead of voting!

Last edited by dosboot; 05-09-2017 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunk Moreland View Post
DQ3 is another case of an old game not aging as well as I wish it had. I played the SFC remake last year, and while it does have a lot of good points, the remake, with all of its more modern improvements, is still really lacking and dated, and has a lot of unfriendly ways you can get screwed over randomly.
Yeah, I'll definitely admit they could've done the Yellow Orb (i.e. Immigrant Town) process better, and the canniboxes and mimics are crazy overpowered in their debut game.
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunk Moreland View Post
edit: For a lot of the modern games, I get why they're on the list. Everything can be classified as RPG now because games all have EXP and levels and other numbers to go up that give you incremental improvements to draw out the game further.
"And when every game's an RPG...
...
no game will be. "
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:57 PM
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Skyrim is number one? I don't even need to look at the rest of the list. Skyrim's a great game, but there are a lot of RPGs. No way it's even in the top 100. Morrowind? Maybe in 100-90 range. But Skyrim? Nah.
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:58 PM
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Also of note: IGN recently make their own list (data compiled from neogaf)

http://www.ign.com/lists/top-100-rpgs//100

Quote:
100 - EverQuest
99 - Wizardry 8
98 - Titan Quest
97 - Fable II
96 - Torchlight II
95 - Pillars of Eternity
94 - Front Mission 3
93 - The Bard's Tale
92 - Betrayal at Krondor
91 - Freedom Force
90 - Divinity: Original Sin
89 - Dragon Age: Inquisition
88 - Darkest Dungeon
87 - Ys Book I & II
86 - Kingdom Hearts II
85 - Chrono Cross
84 - Dragon Warrior VII
83 - Final Fantasy
82 - Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss
81 - EVE Online
80 - Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga
79 - Star Ocean: The Second Story
78 - Illusion of Gaia
77 - Valkyria Chronicles
76 - Icewind Dale II
75 - The Legend of Dragoon
74 - Disgaea: Hour of Darkness
73 - The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings
72 - Neverwinter Nights 2
71 - Jade Empire
70 - Fire Emblem Awakening
69 - Odin Sphere Leifthrasir
68 - Undertale
67 - Ni no Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch
66 - Pool of Radiance
65 - Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King
64 - Lunar: Eternal Blue
63 - Phantasy Star Online
62 - Breath of Fire III
61 - Lunar: Silver Star Story
60 - Shining Force II
59 - Golden Sun
58 - Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals
57 - Tales of Vesperia
56 - Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars
55 - Shadow Hearts: Covenant
54 - The World Ends With You
53 - Phantasy Star IV
52 - Final Fantasy VII
51 - Stardew Valley
50 - Persona 5
49 - Xenoblade Chronicles
48 - Dragon Age: Origins
47 - Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3
46 - Grandia II
45 - Demon's Souls
44 - Xenogears
43 - Tales of Symphonia
42 - Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines
41 - Skies of Arcadia
40 - Final Fantasy IX
39 - Ogre Battle: The March of the Black Queen
38 - Fallout
37 - Fire Emblem
36 - Neverwinter Nights
35 - Baldur's Gate
34 - Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
33 - Dragon Quest V: Hand of the Heavenly Bride
32 - Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar
31 - Final Fantasy XII
30 - Pokémon Sun and Moon
29 - Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate
28 - Fallout: New Vegas
27 - Bloodborne
26 - Mass Effect
25 - The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
24 - Ultima VII: The Black Gate
23 - System Shock 2
22 - Final Fantasy IV
21 - The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
20 - Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together
19 - EarthBound
18 - Final Fantasy Tactics
17 - Suikoden II
16 - Deus Ex
15 - Fallout 2
14 - Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
13 - Persona 4: Golden
12 - Dark Souls
11 - Mass Effect 2
10 - The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
9 - Vagrant Story
8 - Diablo II
7 - Secret of Mana
6 - Planescape: Torment
5 - World of Warcraft
4 - Pokémon Yellow
3 - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
2 - Final Fantasy VI
1 - Chrono Trigger
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Old 05-09-2017, 11:00 PM
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at least all of those are definitely rpgs, from the looks o--

>Stardew Valley

wat
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Old 05-09-2017, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetManMas View Post
Yeah, I'll definitely admit they could've done the Yellow Orb (i.e. Immigrant Town) process better, and the canniboxes and mimics are crazy overpowered in their debut game.
You can also get game-altering stuff, like the personalities (which determine your stat growths!) without any real knowledge of how they work, and while none of them are game-ruining bad stuff, there is a best one. And you can randomly have your chosen tricks n traps/pachisi character's personality changed by some of the spaces you land on!

So even the remake still has unfriendly features in its new content.
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Old 05-09-2017, 11:49 PM
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So we all agree Game Informer's list makes no sense? Cool. Group hug!

So when do we storm their offices?
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Old 05-09-2017, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Positronic Brain View Post
So we all agree Game Informer's list makes no sense? Cool. Group hug!

So when do we storm their offices?
We already started.
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Old 05-09-2017, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post
We already started.
Man, I left my pitchfork and torch at home today. Next time a little advance warning would be nice.
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Old 05-09-2017, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunk Moreland View Post
You can also get game-altering stuff, like the personalities (which determine your stat growths!) without any real knowledge of how they work, and while none of them are game-ruining bad stuff, there is a best one. And you can randomly have your chosen tricks n traps/pachisi character's personality changed by some of the spaces you land on!

So even the remake still has unfriendly features in its new content.
excellent examples of what's great about the game

where are the examples of things that are bad
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Old 05-10-2017, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunk Moreland View Post
You can also get game-altering stuff, like the personalities (which determine your stat growths!) without any real knowledge of how they work, and while none of them are game-ruining bad stuff, there is a best one. And you can randomly have your chosen tricks n traps/pachisi character's personality changed by some of the spaces you land on!

So even the remake still has unfriendly features in its new content.
Eh, the best personality's a matter of opinion, really. Vamp/Sexy may be a great Jack of Alltrades, but a Genius/Sharp PC will be much more S-M-R-T smart and Paragon/Valiant warriors will have more strongth welling in their bodies. It does everything above average, but there are personalities that do one or two things it can do a whole lot better. And while the male exclusive super stat set (Lucky devil) may not add up as high as the ladies', it still has the best Luck gain overall.

That said, the stat altering personality system definitely can make the game harder to approach, especially since the game explains nothing in regards to overall gains and losses.
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Old 05-10-2017, 12:35 AM
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*skips down to the number one*

*sees it is not Chrono Trigger*

*flips tables*

*makes snide comments about audacity and unmitigated gall*

*looks at the IGN list*

*nods sagely*
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Old 05-10-2017, 12:37 AM
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I will go over these lists with more critique tomorrow when I'm awake but my cursory half-asleep glance at GI's is


And IGN's is better but still


I kid about hating but seriously what?
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Old 05-10-2017, 12:47 AM
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Yeah, I mean, my list would be different. IGN had the good sense to put Chrono Trigger at #1 but EverQuest at #100 is some kind of fuckery I can't countenance. On the flip side, GI put EverQuest at a respectable #22 but... Skyrim at #1? I CHORTLE AT YOU, GAME INFORMER.
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Old 05-10-2017, 01:37 AM
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JRPG's suck so these lists are automatically bad, but the second at least has the decency to put Planescape and BG in the top 10. The first one does have Deus Ex as 14, which already rustled some jimmies here, so there's some merit there too.

Anyway, if they really do "vote" on these lists, I don't get the point of these things. The arts aren't a democracy.
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Old 05-10-2017, 01:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rascally Badger View Post
Upon further examination, that sure is a list of games that can largely be considered RPGs, apparently in no particular order.
This is what I expected to see when I clicked the thread and, b'god, Game Informer does not disappoint.
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