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  #6391  
Old 07-12-2017, 11:59 PM
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Sorry that I lack the capacity to take a criticism like "innocent people almost dying isn't a real consequence" seriously. Maybe in the next one they'll have Gwen Stacey die, with a literal countdown to When Peter Learns His Lesson.
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  #6392  
Old 07-13-2017, 12:25 AM
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I don't want dead teens in this movie, (certainly not a dead cat!) but perhaps the teens could've been a little madder at Peter. But you know what, Liz had a crush on him and was willing to forgive a lot. I get it.
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  #6393  
Old 07-13-2017, 01:57 AM
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Spider-Man: Homecoming is up there with the best of the best in the MCU. We're talking Iron Man 1 territory.

I love how it dispenses with so many staples of Spider-Man lore and just focuses on what fits the story it's trying to tell. Uncle Ben, the Daily Bugle, and J. Jonah Jameson take a backseat to a relatable and shockingly convincing modern high school setting, complete with a villain who fills the "mean adult" role in a way that's much closer to home. And it still manages to fit in a classic "Spider-Man lifts something heavy" moment.

Mixed in is a thoughtful examination of how Spider-Man toils in the shadow of a universe that's already full of established heroes. We've had several movies about the Avengers, but this is the first one about the concept of the Avengers and how they look through the rest of the world's eyes, including up-and-coming superheroes. A sense of legacy is one area where DC has always outshone Marvel in the comics, but here in the films they've finally filled in that missing piece. The relationship between Tony and Peter is up there with Batman and Robin or Barry and Wally, and I'm glad they're giving it room to breathe. This isn't a story about passing the torch or coming of age so much as making the best of the awkward stretch before all that. Peter is a sophomore rather than a senior, which kind of says it all.

Michael Keaton gives the single greatest performance, though. I guess it's always been there, but it took a few more wrinkles in his face for me to realize just how expressive his emotions can be. I can't help but compare him to Jack Nicholson, which is amusing for obvious reasons.

I was also delighted to see Game Over: Return of Pepper.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopus Prime View Post
It was very late into this movie before I said "You know, the Homecoming dance barely enters into the plot at all, I wonder why they called the movie th- oh. OH!

Oh I get it!"
Meanwhile, I was only cognizant of the real-world meaning and didn't even consider whether there would be an actual homecoming dance in the movie.


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Originally Posted by Adrenaline View Post
He deals with consequences in this movie. He does a bad job with the ATM robbery and his favorite bodega gets destroyed. He steals an alien artifact that he doesn't understand and he has to race to save his friends' lives. He screws up a sting on the Vulture, putting many people in danger, which causes his mentor to lose faith in him and take away the suit he's grown attached to. The consequences aren't totally dire, but they're there.
Yeah, we're constantly shown the consequences of Peter's mistakes. The movie just doesn't dwell on them and wallow in the melodrama—which, to someone who found all that suffocating by the end of the Raimi films, feels like a breath of fresh air.
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  #6394  
Old 07-13-2017, 07:36 AM
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No one suggested that someone needed to die or that no one was in danger in the movie. "None of Peter's actions have any consequences that are commented on." Not that consequences don't exist. The only consequence that the movie shows Peter being concerned with is whether he becomes an Avenger. Per Lady's point, Tony takes him to task for being reckless part way through the movie. But, the consequence of that is that his suit is taken away and he's farther from being an Avenger. There are a lot of ways it could have shown his concern about moral issues, but that's not what this movie is about.

And, as I said earlier, that makes sense for this character. He's a 15 year old who fought Captain America and tied up Giant Man. This movie is about whether Peter is mature enough to be an Avenger and how he learns that doing things the hard way is more important than taking shortcuts. It's a movie where Spiderman exists in a shared universe rather than in a vacuum. They really considered what that means and focused the story on it entirely. It's a great movie, it just has a different focus than Raimi's first two movies did.
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  #6395  
Old 07-13-2017, 07:39 AM
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The real lesson we should have learned from this is to not listen to Max Landis.
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  #6396  
Old 07-13-2017, 08:01 AM
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Why is that?
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  #6397  
Old 07-13-2017, 09:24 AM
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Peter accidentally ruined the life of a great girl with lots of potential whom he was also crushing on. She thinks he's an asshole who doesn't have his shit together; all but one of his friends think he's a flake who can't be trusted; his teachers are disappointed and he very nearly got himself expelled. And now, Aunt May might make good on Peter's assumption that she would force him to quit the business.

Those are all consequences to him pursuing either his responsibility as Spider-Man or his excitement for joining the Avengers. Unavoidable, understandable consequences, which make him sympathetic, but he still has to deal with them. And while they may not be on the same level as the Tony/Steve rift and making most of the Avengers criminals, they ARE a pretty big deal for the regular life of a 15 year-old.
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  #6398  
Old 07-13-2017, 09:26 AM
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Max Landis is a shit dude with shit opinions w/r/t sexism, racism, etc
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  #6399  
Old 07-13-2017, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zef View Post
Peter accidentally ruined the life of a great girl with lots of potential whom he was also crushing on. She thinks he's an asshole who doesn't have his shit together; all but one of his friends think he's a flake who can't be trusted; his teachers are disappointed and he very nearly got himself expelled. And now, Aunt May might make good on Peter's assumption that she would force him to quit the business.

Those are all consequences to him pursuing either his responsibility as Spider-Man or his excitement for joining the Avengers. Unavoidable, understandable consequences, which make him sympathetic, but he still has to deal with them. And while they may not be on the same level as the Tony/Steve rift and making most of the Avengers criminals, they ARE a pretty big deal for the regular life of a 15 year-old.
Right. There are consequences that exist in the movie, but the movie focuses on his interest in being part of the Avengers rather than how those other things effect his life. Like, presumably they do effect him, the movie just doesn't spend any time on it.

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Max Landis is a shit dude with shit opinions w/r/t sexism, racism, etc
Well, that sucks.
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  #6400  
Old 07-13-2017, 09:34 AM
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Can we talk about how weird an inevitable Miles Morales movie is going to be (since they introduced his uncle Aaron / Prowler / Donald Glover already) without Ganke? I mean, it would be really weird for them to do the character again when all they did was rename him "Ned" and put him in Homecoming.
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  #6401  
Old 07-13-2017, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
The only consequence that the movie shows Peter being concerned with is whether he becomes an Avenger. Per Lady's point, Tony takes him to task for being reckless part way through the movie. But, the consequence of that is that his suit is taken away and he's farther from being an Avenger. There are a lot of ways it could have shown his concern about moral issues, but that's not what this movie is about.
That is exactly what this movie's about. You're correct in saying that "the only consequence the movie shows Peter being concerned with is whether he becomes an Avenger," but what you're missing is that it uses this as a moral judgement on Peter. We get plenty of scenes showing how his lack of concern for anything else is hurting his friends, family, loved ones, and random bystanders, and the moral arc of the movie is resolved when Peter turns down a spot in the Avengers because he's realized he has people closer to home who depend on him just being Peter Parker.

In a way, even though it's not presented as an origin story, the overall arc of the movie is pretty close to Amazing Fantasy #15. Instead of pro wrestling, Peter seeks fame and glory through pro superheroics. But the story is still definitely about Peter learning the lesson that he needs to be more responsible, he just comes to it via a different route than Uncle Ben's shooting.
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  #6402  
Old 07-13-2017, 09:54 AM
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That's interesting. I don't know if I completely agree, but it's something to think about.
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  #6403  
Old 07-13-2017, 10:39 AM
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If we boil down the "no consequences commented on" to "there was no exposition w.r.t these things", it's still a crappy criticism, 'cause we don't go to movies to have people explain stuff to us.
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  #6404  
Old 07-13-2017, 10:50 AM
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No one ever said that it needs exposition. There are tons of ways that movies can communicate to the audience.
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  #6405  
Old 07-13-2017, 05:53 PM
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I think Homecoming's different take on the Spidey mythos— as it were— is first and foremost a pragmatic one. The (ironically-titled) Amazing films showed the pointlessness of doing straight adaptation only a few years removed from the last one; for Homecoming to justify itself, it needed to do something new, and that meant dispensing with the traditional origin story and melodrama.

But I think it was the right decision from a creative perspective, too. I love this version of Spider-Man, the way it's aggressively modernized and adapted to the wider MCU story while retaining the fundamental core. I love that this Spider-Man is a local eccentric, "the Spider-Man from YouTube" who entertains passersby and helps old ladies cross the street; I love that everyone at his school is some degree of nerdy, and Flash is an entitled rich kid; I love that the MJ character is aloof instead of out-of-his-league; hell, I even love how the Stark suit opens up new possibilities in combat.

The biggest disappointment of Homecoming is that now I really just want to read a bunch of comics about this Spider-Man and his world instead.
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  #6406  
Old 07-15-2017, 06:36 PM
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Peeps are describing the first footage from Infinity War and this movie sounds crowded as heck.

I'ma still see it and I'm sure it'll be an amazing spectacle but I have no idea how they're going to manage all them characters so that they all have something to do and not one feels superfluous.
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  #6407  
Old 07-15-2017, 06:38 PM
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That's a link to Mega Maker, which I will gladly download!
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  #6408  
Old 07-15-2017, 06:39 PM
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Stupid copy function not copying. Fixed.
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  #6409  
Old 07-15-2017, 09:17 PM
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I very much enjoyed this movie (and my wife absolutely loved it, despite never caring for any of the previous films). I think my only criticism is that I don't really think he needs a high tech suit with an, admittedly very polite and nice, lady built into it offering him superhero advice. We've got a guy for that already.
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  #6410  
Old 07-16-2017, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoonyBardOL View Post
Peeps are describing the first footage from Infinity War and this movie sounds crowded as heck.

I'ma still see it and I'm sure it'll be an amazing spectacle but I have no idea how they're going to manage all them characters so that they all have something to do and not one feels superfluous.
Isn't it in two parts?
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  #6411  
Old 07-16-2017, 11:53 AM
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Nah, it's one movie. Infinity War 2 is going to be something different now.
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  #6412  
Old 07-16-2017, 08:19 PM
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Not entirely, Octo: the second one is still an "infinity" movie, whatever that means. Marvel basically said "we don't want to call A4 "infinity part 2" because that implies that infinity part 1 isn't a full complete movie." Kinda BS-y. They're still heavily connected though, and if it was anyone besides Marvel, I couldn't even fathom how they're going to pull that off, but so far, for me anyway, the big M has done no wrong.
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  #6413  
Old 07-16-2017, 08:56 PM
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Calling it now: Since we have more than one baddie for the assembled Marvel heroes to whale on, Thanos will distribute the power of four of the Infinity stones to the "Children/Black Order", who will then split up the Avengers into gimmick battles, thus preventing the whole team from fighting together in the same scene and keeping the action controlled for both the storytelling and the audience. Meanwhile, Thanos will keep the remaining stone (betting on Power or Reality) while he seeks out Soul.

He will probably complete the Gauntlet by the end of the movie, he'll probably use it to erase the Avengers from existence, and at the very least Ant-Man and Wasp will make it out alive. But dunno how their film, or Captain Marvel's, will go if Thanos erases half the population of the universe like he did in the comics.
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  #6414  
Old 07-17-2017, 07:44 AM
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Yeah, the Black Order are pretty clearly being set up as the jobbers for the Avengers / Guardians to dispatch before Thanos knocks the stuffing out of them at the end of the movie.

(And because I expect that even Hasbro has their limits in terms of how many Avengers variants they can generate in their lifetime. They probably saw the concept art of Cap with a beard and threw a massive party.)

I have the feeling that the sequel will wind up being off-Earth, simply because it doesn't seem like they're filming that many exteriors for it.

(Spidey took a big hit over the weekend - dropped by over 60%. Still might make more money than WW worldwide, because China loves Iron Man, but it's actually questionable at this point and that's without WW doing good overseas numbers.)

Last edited by Sven; 07-17-2017 at 08:38 AM.
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  #6415  
Old 07-17-2017, 09:21 AM
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The fantasy booking for the Avengers/Thanos fight is going to account for at least 1/3 of reddit/twitter message traffic for the next however long, isn't it?
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  #6416  
Old 07-17-2017, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ample Vigour View Post
The fantasy booking for the Avengers/Thanos fight is going to account for at least 1/3 of reddit/twitter message traffic for the next however long, isn't it?
Well, until Disney releases a trailer that is 50% spoilers / 50% stuff that was filmed just for the trailer that has nothing to do with the movie.

Which, y'know... ComicCon is three days away.
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  #6417  
Old 07-17-2017, 10:57 AM
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I've been kind of uh busy lately but I did finally get around to seeing The Enspidered Man and it was good

like really good

like really really good

like really really really really really really rea
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  #6418  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:05 AM
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I haven't seen Spider man yet,

Vaeran, I hear you just saw Spider Man. What did you think of it?
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  #6419  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:21 AM
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Yeah, I saw the Spiders-Man yesterday as well. It was good! Peter was also an idiot in multiple fashions as is right and true.

Also, damn man, Michelle was right there the entire time. But eh, also a Peter move.
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  #6420  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAT View Post
I haven't seen Spider man yet,

Vaeran, I hear you just saw Spider Man. What did you think of it?
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