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  #6361  
Old 07-10-2017, 01:36 PM
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I feel that what has always made Peter "relateable" is that, unlike other superheroes, he actually has a lot of trouble balancing out his heroing with his mundane life. As a kid, he had to balance school and Aunt May. In college, he had to balance school, a part-time job, and Aunt May. As an adult, he had to balance an adult relationship, no steady source of income, and Aunt May. Whatever age he is, he's always worrying about his relationships, money, May's health and well-being --all real-life concerns that the readers have to varying degrees. All that changes is who's yelling at him and who he's worried about at that particular time.

The problem with Quesada's interpretation of "relateable", leading to One More Day, is that he didn't think Married Peter would be relateable to a) younger fans (who didn't buy comics anymore anyway), or b) adult but single fans.
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  #6362  
Old 07-10-2017, 01:36 PM
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And an idealistic young kid is a great counterbalance to the ambiguous, middle-aged Avengers.
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  #6363  
Old 07-10-2017, 01:38 PM
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High School Peter Parker doesn't interact with J. Jonah Jameson, and is therefore bad.
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  #6364  
Old 07-10-2017, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
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High School Peter Parker doesn't interact with J. Jonah Jameson, and is therefore bad.
This is quite important, although I think there's a few versions of the origin that has Peter working for JJJ while he's still in high school (he was the Bugle's website intern or something like that in Ultimate Spidey IIRC).
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Old 07-10-2017, 02:14 PM
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Peter started selling photos to the Bugle in issue #2 of ASM. Of him fighting the Vulture.
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  #6366  
Old 07-10-2017, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Ample Vigour View Post
And an idealistic young kid is a great counterbalance to the ambiguous, middle-aged Avengers.
From what I understand, his next movie is meant to kick off the post-Infinity MCU, which is a good call. Watching a teenager grow up is a more compelling point of continuity than collecting rocks.
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  #6367  
Old 07-10-2017, 02:26 PM
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That's an excellent point. Also, up until now, RDJ's Tony Stark has been the linchpin of the entire enterprise, but eventually he's gonna want to retire or take a break. Marvel could very well experiment with refocusing the MCU on Tom Holland's Peter Parker as both actor and character grow up in real-time, test the waters in case RDJ ever wants to take his leave.
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Old 07-10-2017, 02:47 PM
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I don't know, Marvel's pivoted so heavily towards Iron Man (Guardians 2 stands as their biggest non-Downey-starring movie, and it's only 5th overall) that I don't know if they want to change, especially with Sony hovering in the background for all things Spidey.
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  #6369  
Old 07-10-2017, 03:08 PM
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They must be aware the Downey rush won't last forever. I don't know what they'll do to replace it, but my guess they won't adjust their expectations accordingly.
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  #6370  
Old 07-10-2017, 03:16 PM
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Infinity War will be a really interesting tell-tale. If you consider Civil War to be an Avengers movie (which is what it was marketed as), there's a downward domestic box office trend there.
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  #6371  
Old 07-10-2017, 03:18 PM
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It was very late into this movie before I said "You know, the Homecoming dance barely enters into the plot at all, I wonder why they called the movie th- oh. OH!

Oh I get it!"
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  #6372  
Old 07-12-2017, 09:26 AM
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I have to give kudos to the writer, director and Michael Keaton for making the fucking Vulture one of the best villains in the MCU. Which I guess would make the top three MCU villains... Loki, the Vulture, and Ego. Huh.

Other favorite thing about the movie - no origin story.
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  #6373  
Old 07-12-2017, 09:55 AM
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Other favorite thing about the movie - no origin story.
And no overt mention of Ben or "With great power must also come great responsibility."
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  #6374  
Old 07-12-2017, 12:09 PM
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And no overt mention of Ben or "With great power must also come great responsibility."
Screenwriter/tweeter Max Landis was critical of this. Personally, I was more than fine with the lack of Ben/Classic Spider-Themes.

Classic spider-themes... memory jogged. Okay, the little spider-jingle at the beginning of the movie was "fine" but can u imagine how rad it would be if(/when) the 90's X-Men theme pops back up in the movies? (maximally rad)
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  #6375  
Old 07-12-2017, 12:11 PM
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Presumably if he's already been around long enough for Stark to take notice of him he's already taken Ben's lessons to heart.
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  #6376  
Old 07-12-2017, 12:12 PM
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He almost says it in Civil War but gets cut off
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  #6377  
Old 07-12-2017, 12:13 PM
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I do think Landis makes some valid points about how chill things generally are after Peter screws up multiple times, but I am such an anxiety ridden mess the scenarios-as-filmed got to me anyway.
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  #6378  
Old 07-12-2017, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NavelsAreNeat View Post
Screenwriter/tweeter Max Landis was critical of this. Personally, I was more than fine with the lack of Ben/Classic Spider-Themes.
I completely agree with that. But, as he says, it's fine. It's still a fun movie, and Raimi already nailed the classic Spiderman story anyway. This is Spiderman as he fits into the MCU, and they did a good job with that.
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  #6379  
Old 07-12-2017, 12:47 PM
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I somewhat agree with Max's criticism but also, I don't know what he wanted from the movie exactly.

Are we supposed to see innocent people actually die as a result of Spider-Man's screw-ups? That might be kind of dark for the tone the movie was going for. How mad would a popular, pretty girl be about the cute guy who brought her to the dance ditching? She probably ended up having a decent time, and after that she has much bigger personal things to worry about.
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  #6380  
Old 07-12-2017, 12:50 PM
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See Spiderman 1&2. Peter was constantly dealing with the consequences of his choices.
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  #6381  
Old 07-12-2017, 12:58 PM
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He deals with consequences in this movie. He does a bad job with the ATM robbery and his favorite bodega gets destroyed. He steals an alien artifact that he doesn't understand and he has to race to save his friends' lives. He screws up a sting on the Vulture, putting many people in danger, which causes his mentor to lose faith in him and take away the suit he's grown attached to. The consequences aren't totally dire, but they're there.
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  #6382  
Old 07-12-2017, 01:06 PM
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I don't agree with Landis' criticism because I don't believe pointing out what happens in the movie counts as criticism
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  #6383  
Old 07-12-2017, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NavelsAreNeat View Post
Classic spider-themes... memory jogged. Okay, the little spider-jingle at the beginning of the movie was "fine" but
Disney can and must pay the heirs/creditors of Joey Ramone whatever money it takes for The Ramones' version of Spider-Man to see the silver screen
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  #6384  
Old 07-12-2017, 01:45 PM
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Disney can and must pay the heirs/creditors of Joey Ramone whatever money it takes for The Ramones' version of Spider-Man to see the silver screen
When they started playing Blitzkrieg Bop over the end credits I moaned in anguish.

They came so close
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  #6385  
Old 07-12-2017, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NavelsAreNeat View Post
Screenwriter/tweeter Max Landis was critical of this. Personally, I was more than fine with the lack of Ben/Classic Spider-Themes.
It feels like he's seriously reaching with some of the specific "no consequences" complaints, and for others he completely failed to read the scene. True, this particular interpretation of Peter isn't running on angst the way others have, but only because of one crucial difference: he has a support network, and he's had it since Tony walked into his room in Civil War. His demeanor here is vastly different from CW because, at the start of his "career", he was alone, anonymous, and was very obviously carrying the weight of Uncle Ben's death. The airport battle in CW only proved that he was equally excited about joining the Avengers as he was about doing good on a larger setting than he was used to --you can read his desperate attempt to jump back into action after being backhanded by Giant-Man as "I want to prove myself to Mr. Stark!" just as much as heroic, selfless resolve.

By the time of Homecoming, he has obviously let the "excitement" part get to his head, yeah. And he wants to prove himself worthy of the Avengers because "How cool is that?" But he's still altruistic at his core. He was given a role and an opportunity, but after months of being "on the beach" with no further assignments all he ever gets is silence and unread messages. Anyone would've just turned despondent and given up the whole Avengers deal, especially with the lack of response, but he's still putting on the suit every day and doing good wherever he can. And, as much as it pains him, he never thinks twice about ditching his social life in order to fulfill his responsibilities.

The whole point of the movie was that, after getting a swollen head from the Avengers fight, he needed to reexamine those responsibilities. I thought the film did a good job at that. And I thought Tom Holland did an excellent job portraying Peter's ultimate decision and how proud he was of himself making it --and a Spider-Man that sees hope in himself is something rare and precious. He's seen what happens when the Big Guys he looks up to ignore or allow small stuff to happen on their watch, so he chooses to fill that gap. He's not burdened by it, he is choosing to burden himself, even knowing how terrible it will be for his personal life.

I also like that, despite being a whiz-kid like usual, Peter (and his friends) can still do dumb things. Having a genius intellect in science doesn't give you life experience, street smarts, insight, or even common sense. I like that he's allowed to screw up in small things that blow up spectacularly later on. Being impetuous and immature should be more permissible in a 15 year-old character than any of the fatal flaws in a grownup (like, say, Quill's "I never matured past 10" arrested development or Tony's multitudinous neuroses or Cap's unyielding self-righteousness).
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  #6386  
Old 07-12-2017, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Octopus Prime View Post
When they started playing Blitzkrieg Bop over the end credits I moaned in anguish.

They came so close
Funny thing is that I bet the rights for Blitzkrieg Bop cost at least an order of magnitude more than the rights for Spider-Man.
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  #6387  
Old 07-12-2017, 02:10 PM
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As I said, I think it is a good fit for Spiderman in the MCU. I also think that it's a fairly consequence free movie for Peter and one where his own moral compass is deemphasized in exchange for a focus on how he's affected by joining the Avengers at a young age. That's fine, it's just a different movie.
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  #6388  
Old 07-12-2017, 04:33 PM
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I thought his discussion with Tony midway through summed up the real consequences of his actions/mistakes. Do people disagree with that convo, or is it that they don't think the movie played them up enough?
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  #6389  
Old 07-12-2017, 07:05 PM
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"Peter's girlfriend didn't die in this one and as such I am unable to conceptualize the repercussions of his actions."
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  #6390  
Old 07-12-2017, 11:55 PM
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Quote:
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I don't agree with Landis' criticism because I don't believe pointing out what happens in the movie counts as criticism
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"Peter's girlfriend didn't die in this one and as such I am unable to conceptualize the repercussions of his actions."
Thanks for contributing.
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