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  #6181  
Old 05-09-2017, 12:08 AM
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That's because he only works when he's paired with or opposed by passionate, outspoken cohorts, teammates, and foes. That's also why he was a lackluster character until Starlin came in, gave him a purpose, and a nemesis in Thanos (who, IMO, is also more Starlin's child than anyone else's.) He's also a very high-concept character, dealing with abstract philosophies and, yeah, acid trips, hence his intrinsic connection to the Soul Gem --to the point the singular Soul Gem was retconned into the six Soul Gems and into the Infinity Gems thereafter.

I haven't read his run in the Guardians --I lost track of him after The End and I only caught up with him at the onset of The Thanos Imperative, by which time he was Magus again-- but the later Infinity series (Revelation, Entity, and Finale) was vintage Starlin and finally, I feel, completed Warlock's arc. Which is another reason I was following Ultimates 2 so religiously other than the Megatenn escalation.

Comics Vision was very similar. He was far too humorless to carry most readers through his absolute mess of an arc, but the MCU made him work. I was thinking Warlock might get a similar chance, but with him being completely alien (traveler of the stars as he was, he still thought of Earth as his home, and retained some measure of humanity) and removed from the always-hungry Soul Gem, I have no idea what his character will look like.
I was hoping MCU Vision would Adam Warlock's place in Infinity Wars, really. He's got a star-child like quality on him - he has the "perfect body" of Ultron, his powers are great but only sort of vaguely defined and he's got a "learning humanity by observing humans" thing going on like many sci-fi greats. I can just see how he'll learn of this thing called love (already foreshadowed in Civil War and of course the comics) and take down Thanos in a moment of messianic self-sacrifice.
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  #6182  
Old 05-09-2017, 01:32 PM
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Definitely preferred this one to the first. It had the one thing I actually wanted from GotG 1.0 (some forward momentum for Nebula) and then some. (Yonbu got a redemption arc,
too
) Also, I appreciated the gold space demons; whatever they're called. TBH I was rooting for them and I want the glamorous lunatic in charge to also improbably join the gang next round.

Yeah, the film's a bit too cute sometimes, (particularly Starlord and Drax) but I still enjoyed and will, as with its predecessor, forget about it for the next three years. One thing I didn't care for was when Yonbu and Rocket killed all those dudes with joyful musical accompaniment. They just seemed like straight up war criminals. So were the people they killed, but it sure seems like they could've stopped at some point. I am becoming a buzzkill in my old age and can't give that kind of thing from ostensible heroes a "fuck yeah."

Someone give me the lowdown on Adam Warlock.
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  #6183  
Old 05-09-2017, 02:49 PM
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Someone give me the lowdown on Adam Warlock.
He's basically an Earth-born, genetically engineered "perfect human" (mind the gold skin) who pretty much skipped the Earth adventures to become a Cosmic Marvel character. He's been a what-is-this-thing-called-love enemy, a literal messiah for a duplicate Earth, an interstellar philosopher-warrior, and the cornerstone for nearly every Marvel story with the title "The Infinity [X]". In fact, two of the "main" Infinity Trilogy stories are his own direct fault; the original one, Infinity Gauntlet, came from expanding his "Soul Gem" artifact into a whole set of six.

As a character, he's very introspective, and prone to existential crises and angst about his own, portentous destiny. He's cold, robotic, and distant to everyone but his very closest friends (in the comics, Gamora is his love interest) but not above bombast and proclamations of Kirby-esque proportions (though he's usually alone when he cuts loose with those). He's humorless and self-important.

He's also ridiculously powerful, since he hangs around and often bosses around other Marvel cosmics. Every time he dies or comes near death he cocoons himself and comes out with a new costume. And his evil future self, the Magus, created the Universal Church of Truth and conquered countless worlds.


He's probably one of the weirdest, most overwrought, most complicated character concepts in Marvel's roster. If you wanted to summarize his character the same way Iron Man is "billionaire playboy creates power armor, fights crime" or how Cap is "patriotic ideal becomes super soldier, fights Nazis", Warlock is "deathly-serious space-hippy-Jesus has cosmic acid trip adventures, fights himself with a giant white afro."
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  #6184  
Old 05-09-2017, 03:01 PM
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I was supposed to see this last week, but I still haven't gotten a chance to go. Man, it's hard not clicking on all of these blue bars.
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  #6185  
Old 05-09-2017, 04:46 PM
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Someone give me the lowdown on Adam Warlock.
Don't. Fucking. Bother.

Seriously it's even more of a "don't waste your time" than, like, trying to figure out Hawkman.
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  #6186  
Old 05-09-2017, 06:01 PM
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The lowdown is that they're gonna throw out everything from the comics about that particular character, and good riddance.
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  #6187  
Old 05-09-2017, 06:28 PM
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I was supposed to see this last week, but I still haven't gotten a chance to go. Man, it's hard not clicking on all of these blue bars.
I KNOW, RIGHT
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  #6188  
Old 05-09-2017, 06:41 PM
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I KNOW, RIGHT
Most of mine are not about the film itself, but about something that had already been vaguely referenced several movies ago, and only firmly confirmed in this one, if you want to chance it...
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  #6189  
Old 05-09-2017, 08:39 PM
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More specifically, those spoilers are about a new character tease from one of the many end-credits scenes. But good luck only clicking on that spoiler convo thread and not other ones.
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  #6190  
Old 05-09-2017, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by NavelsAreNeat View Post
Also, I appreciated the gold space demons; whatever they're called. TBH I was rooting for them and I want the glamorous lunatic in charge to also improbably join the gang next round.

Yeah, the film's a bit too cute sometimes, (particularly Starlord and Drax) but I still enjoyed and will, as with its predecessor, forget about it for the next three years. One thing I didn't care for was when Yonbu and Rocket killed all those dudes with joyful musical accompaniment. They just seemed like straight up war criminals. So were the people they killed, but it sure seems like they could've stopped at some point. I am becoming a buzzkill in my old age and can't give that kind of thing from ostensible heroes a "fuck yeah."
The fact that you were rooting for the Sovereign goes a long way to explain your reaction to the second part. They were muntineers that were going to sell the trio for money so the "demons" could execute them. Everyone who had the least loyalty had been spaced or showed up to help them escape.

On the subject of the Sovereign,
I do love how the Sovereign treat war as basically a big arcade game all Ender's Game style. I cracked up when the one guy got zapped and the crowd around him all sighed and turned to leave, with one of them saying "You suck [so and so]!"
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  #6191  
Old 05-09-2017, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Zef View Post
Most of mine are not about the film itself, but about something that had already been vaguely referenced several movies ago, and only firmly confirmed in this one, if you want to chance it...
I think I'm gonna see it tomorrow, so I'll wait. Thanks, though!

And thanks for everyone who is being good about keeping all of the spoilers hidden!
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  #6192  
Old 05-09-2017, 10:28 PM
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Not sure if mine counts as a spoiler, but wait till after to click it anyways.
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  #6193  
Old 05-09-2017, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by NavelsAreNeat View Post
One thing I didn't care for was when Yonbu and Rocket killed all those dudes with joyful musical accompaniment. They just seemed like straight up war criminals. So were the people they killed, but it sure seems like they could've stopped at some point. I am becoming a buzzkill in my old age and can't give that kind of thing from ostensible heroes a "fuck yeah."
I'm perfectly fine with the MCU heroes existing across a spectrum of lethality, and it makes perfect sense for the Guardians to be towards the darker end of that spectrum -- they're all criminals and outlaws. It's rough out there in the galaxy, man, and you gotta do what you gotta do.
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  #6194  
Old 05-10-2017, 12:12 AM
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Saw it tonight. It was great! Will post more thoughts tomorrow, but I really got a kick out of it.
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  #6195  
Old 05-10-2017, 05:29 AM
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The fact that you were rooting for the Sovereign goes a long way to explain your reaction to the second part.
I want them to be heroes next time just like Yonbu and Nebula got to be this time; because they are fun, brightly colored, and perhaps complex people capable redemption and worthy of sympathy. (okay, the Sovereign mostly just seemed fun and colorful)
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They were muntineers that were going to sell the trio for money so the "demons" could execute them. Everyone who had the least loyalty had been spaced or showed up to help them escape.
I'm not denying most were assholes. (I don't know all of them!) To me, it seemed like our heroes had established uh military superiority pretty clearly so the total execution of their enemies struck me as gratuitous and not something I could enjoy as a heroic action, along with the sick music.
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On the subject of the Sovereign,
I do love how the Sovereign treat war as basically a big arcade game all Ender's Game style. I cracked up when the one guy got zapped and the crowd around him all sighed and turned to leave, with one of them saying "You suck [so and so]!"
Yes, the Sovereign were v. goofy and amusing. I'm not sure they successfully killed anybody in the movie which heightened the small tonal disconnect I felt during Yondu and the raccoon's massacre. (honestly forgot his name; I'm sorry)

The Guardians did not seem to take it all that seriously when the Sovereign were playing their war game. Didn't Rocket (I've got it now!) display a bit of bloodlust in the chase shortly before this reveal deflated that? (to me, it'd be questionable if he happily killed a ton of people he just stole a national security macguffin from)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaeran View Post
I'm perfectly fine with the MCU heroes existing across a spectrum of lethality, and it makes perfect sense for the Guardians to be towards the darker end of that spectrum -- they're all criminals and outlaws. It's rough out there in the galaxy, man, and you gotta do what you gotta do.
I don't have a problem with heroes killing or doing Bad Things. The massacre didn't turn me against the protagonists and I cried when Yondu died. (I'm an easy mark + this film is good) I liked Nebula and really appreciated that she got an arc this movie as well. (thank god she was off the ship when the tables turned!) As I've said, it was clear to me that they had to be doing what they were doing after a certain point - they'd won. If I were in Space, you know what I'd say to these two, in that moment? "You've got character flaws! Deal with it!" (they did... congrats)

Does Ayesha exist in the comics and/or do the Sovereign own there, too?
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  #6196  
Old 05-10-2017, 05:47 AM
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The Sovereign aren't in the comics, but Ayesha is. She's basically a synthetic being that was created to serve as a mate for Adam Warlock. But it took forever for her to find him, and he wasn't interested when she did, so she went off and did her own stuff.
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  #6197  
Old 05-10-2017, 11:37 AM
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Okay, here's my thoughts. I'm just gonna ramble so it'll all be spoilered.

I really enjoyed this movie. Maybe I needed some levity after the political bombshells yesterday, but I felt this may be the better of the two Guardians films. I laughed a lot, felt emotional pulls that I don't remember having quite so strongly in the original, and was entertained the entire time. Drax was super funny throughout (although I did get a bit tired of his constant ragging on Mantis, although the arc ended up in a good place at the end), and Baby Groot was actually not as prevalent as I expected it (him?) to be, and lightened the mood (or made you really sad in the hazing scene). Nebula had a chance to really shine here, and she may have been my overall favorite character. It's good to have a better understanding of the lengths Thanos was willing to go regarding his own daughters prior to his full debut next year. Gamora I think had some development, but could have had more. I feel that her theme was opening up her emotions to both Star Lord and Nebula, the two figures in her life that matter (and I don't think she really understood her relationship with Nebula and how much her sister had suffered). Yondu had his moment to really shine. I think his arc was perhaps the best realized and executed. Having Rocket pair up with Yondu was a good plot thread as well, as it gave his assholish behavior early on a lot more weight. I like Mantis a lot. Pairing her with Drax was mostly a great idea, as the two bounce off of each other well. Like I said earlier, Drax did lay it on a little thick at points, but the climax and ending made up for it. I'm intrigued to know how she will integrate with the other Guardians moving forward.

Ego was a solid villain, I think. Kurt Russell did a fine job bringing the character to life. The revelation that he gave Quill's mother cancer was a shock...it was a devastating moment for sure and made his cruel intentions crystalline. While Marvel villains tend to be the weak point, I think Ego is arguably second best at the moment (behind Loki).


All and all, I'm happy.
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  #6198  
Old 05-10-2017, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by WildcatJF View Post
Ego was a solid villain, I think. Kurt Russell did a fine job bringing the character to life. The revelation that he gave Quill's mother cancer was a shock...it was a devastating moment for sure and made his cruel intentions crystalline. While Marvel villains tend to be the weak point, I think Ego is arguably second best at the moment (behind Loki).
I've been giving this some thought, and I think I have to agree. Ego is effective and unsettling because at first he appears to be a humble and affable demi-god who understands and appreciates mortal concepts like love, beauty, music, creativity and family. And it's not necessarily the fact that he is then revealed to have a horrifying agenda and to have done unspeakable things in pursuit of it (as there are plenty of villains in film and elsewhere who seem harmless at first but turn out to be psychopaths), but rather that he doesn't seem to consider this to be any kind of contradiction or deception. His revelation to Peter that he killed Meredith isn't framed as a confession; it's said casually and in the middle of another thought, as though it's mere happenstance that he hadn't mentioned it before now. Ego's understanding of all the things Peter holds dear is so detached and alien, and he's bewildered that Peter would place such deep value in what appear to him to be fleeting and ephemeral concepts. Ego died without ever knowing why anyone would be angry with him, least of all his son. That's interesting and sort of sympathetic, in a weird way.

I still think Wilson Fisk is the more compelling villain, and it's down to him and Loki duking it out if we're talking about the wider MCU. But if we're limiting our scope to the movies then yeah, Ego's right up there.
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  #6199  
Old 05-10-2017, 04:55 PM
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I think I started to get bored while our heroes slowly pieced together the fact that he's evil because I came in with working knowledge of EGO THE LIVING PLANET. Lady didn't, but even she was just waiting for the other shoe to drop after he introduced himself as EGO.

For a movie that seems to mainly be about Star-Lord and his two dads by the time it's over, it also feels a little strange that Star-Lord and Yondu don't meet up again until it's almost over. They do talk about each other while they're apart, though, so I want to watch it again just to pay more attention to that aspect.
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  #6200  
Old 05-10-2017, 05:34 PM
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One thing I liked about the villain was that he was sincere in experiencing and enjoying mortal things. He really was in love. He simply decided that his Purpose was more important to him than love, so he destroyed his love to protect his Purpose from it when they were about to come into conflict.
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  #6201  
Old 05-10-2017, 06:31 PM
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My part1 headcanons was the Dr Manhattan thing. I don't really understand why he needed to cancer her purposely

New crossover : Mogo vs Ego
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  #6202  
Old 05-10-2017, 06:47 PM
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One thing I liked about the villain was that he was sincere in experiencing and enjoying mortal things. He really was in love. He simply decided that his Purpose was more important to him than love, so he destroyed his love to protect his Purpose from it when they were about to come into conflict.
Agreed, as much as you can like an ass like that.
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  #6203  
Old 05-10-2017, 06:55 PM
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I don't really understand why he needed to cancer her purposely
At one point he says he went to Earth to see Meredith three different times, and he knew that if there were a fourth, he'd never leave. And then he would die without fulfilling his purpose, since he wouldn't be able to maintain his longevity if he stayed put. The bottom line was he didn't want that, so—he reasoned—she had to go.
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  #6204  
Old 05-11-2017, 12:38 AM
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I seriously loved how well it depicted a narcissistic parent. He can seem kind and charming, but little things peek through ("I left extensions of myself on other worlds" and the whole "using someone as a battery/object"). And Peter rejecting that mindset when it's handed to him on a gold platter, breaking the cycle, is really wonderful.

It's a really great and unconventional message for a superhero movie to say sometimes your parents are just toxic and it's ok to not love/forgive them for that.
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  #6205  
Old 05-11-2017, 08:49 AM
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That is a super good point.
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  #6206  
Old 05-11-2017, 10:52 AM
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So I saw this yesterday. I liked it. I'm going to have to let it marinate for a while before forming a really solid opinion though.

It had a lot of really good scenes and jokes and bits of action, but I also felt like it was kind of throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks. That's not necessarily bad, but it led to some parts feeling like extreme emotional whiplash. They also definitely stretched out the big reveal a bit too long. Also, while the soundtrack was very good, it didn't grab me the way the first one did. Maybe that'll change with re-watches.
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  #6207  
Old 05-11-2017, 11:29 AM
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Speaking of the characters in the comics:

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  #6208  
Old 05-11-2017, 12:20 PM
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The heavily starched cape, the Colossus/Cable-like metallic bands on his limbs, the preposterous arm cannon(s), and the unfortunate spikes that would cut him to ribbons before hurting anyone else, miiiight not spell "Liefeld" (he has feet and his crotch isn't speedlined) but they do spell "early-90s Liefeld wannabe".
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  #6209  
Old 05-11-2017, 01:45 PM
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The "cape inexplicably floating over the shoulders" is a look I remember from a lot of Thor comics, so maybe there's some Simonson in there (although thinking on it some, I think you're right that Rob used it for Stryfe as well).

But if you're gonna be named Taserface, at least, y'know, have a taser for a face.
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Old 05-11-2017, 02:22 PM
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I'm seeing some John Byrne in it, but it might just be the Colossus bands, since Byrne is who I associate with Colossus.
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