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Old 06-29-2016, 05:52 AM
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Default Harry Potter and the Thread for Talking About Harry Potter

And Also I watched HARRY POTTER 4: CUPPA STRAIT FIRE.

Eh.

Ehhhhhhhhhhhh.

Is it just me or did the harry potter movies get really weird and awkwardly paced at some point?

Also holy shit wizards are fucking incompetent. YOU MORONS ALL KNOW THAT A BAD GUYS FUCKED WITH THE CUP. WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU TAKING ORDERS FROM A FUCKING KITCHEN UTENSIL?

Oh, it's a "Binding Contract" you say. You know the Muggles, that you show so much scorn for have this thing called CONTRACT LAW that determines if a contract can be upheld! Like, say if one party in the contract did not agree to it, and was entered into it against his will! Wow! I wonder what other things muggles might do differently from wizards?

I wonder if JK Rowling was watching a lot of TMZ before she made the reporter lady that is not overly concerned with the truth.

Oh I thought of one. Muggles wouldn't make teenagers FIGHT WILD ANIMALS TO THE DEATH IN FRONT OF A SCREAMING CROWD! At least, not modern muggles in modern England. First Century AD muggles sure.

THE MERMAIDS STOLE SOMETHING THAT MATTERS TO YOU! TURNS OUT IT'S PEOPLE. (PEOPLE ARE THINGS NOW IT'S COOL.)

Oh hey I remember this scene from the shining! And I guess they combined it with that one scene from evil dead?

Hahah Baby Voldermort.

Haha Adult voldermort is like such a fucking nerd. All yelling at his subordinates DON'T HELP ME I GOT THIS even as he obviously loses the DragonBall Z Beam-o-war with a fucking 14 year old.

Kill All Wizards.

Last edited by BEAT; 06-29-2016 at 06:07 AM.
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Old 06-30-2016, 10:43 AM
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Default SEE CUZ PHOENIX SOUNDS SORTA LIKE PENIS AS IN DONGS.

I continued the trend last night by fighting my way through HARRY POTTAH 5: ORDER OF THE [OBVIOUS DICK JOKE]. Barely organized observations follow.

HOLY SHIT THE MAGIC GOVERNMENT IS TERRIBLE.
Like not even normal government bureaucratic incompetence terrible! This is some absolute next-level shit.

So they have this entire race of SOUL-EATING MONSTERS that they use to TORTURE EVERYONE SERVING A PRISON SENTENCE because fuck rehabilitation. One would think they'd keep a pretty close eye on said Monsters, but I guess they don't because the monsters just show up at Harry's pad like WHAS GOOD MOTHERFUCKER and nobody in the government noticed they were missing.

But they DID notice that somebody cast a spell! And they know that it was cast in front of those FUCKIN MUGGLES they all hate so much. Said muggles are actually his legal guardians who are completely aware of Wizard shit, and the spell was to save them from aforementioned Government-employed soul eating monsters but WHATEVER. From this we can infer that the magic government doesn't keep track of the ACTUAL MONSTERS they employ to TORTURE PRISONERS, but they DO monitor the daily activities of normal citizens inside their own homes. That's just awesome

So they take Harry to trial, presided over by the magic president. Seems a bit much for a possible boarding school expulsion, but whatever roll with it. At said trial it's revealed that what Harry did was totally legal under standard "you don't have to just sit there and let monsters kill you" self defense laws. And just as I'm thinking finally something reasonable the president responds with THIS BAD BOY:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAGIC PRESIDENT
(OH YEAH WELL) LAWS CAN BE CHANGED!
The guy is threatening Prosecute citizens NOW for breaking possible future laws. That's fucking STALINIST RUSSIA terrible! And that's not even an exaggeration, because the remainder of the movie makes a big fucking deal about how the head of the government controls the only major news source and uses it to publish nothing but propaganda! Which weirdly fits in pretty well with the last movie, where we met the first wizard journalist we've ever seen and all she did was make shit up.

I DON'T GET PINK BAD LADY
Delores Umbridge is a weird character, so much so that I almost wonder if JK Rowling had some very specific beef with some very specific individual that had passive-aggression down to an artform. It's an interesting idea, an antagonist that's so polite and meek that it's tough for the heroes to call her out on being terrible, but I'm not sure it I'm not really sure it works. She's the primary bad guy for the vast majority of the movie, but the only tool she can use is being a shrill tattletale. combine that with the WE MUST STOP PROGRESS FOR PROGRESS'S SAKE and STANDARDIZED TESTS hand wringing, (which is just a little on-the-nose for me) and she just seems kinda pathetic.

What pushes it into WEIRD territory for me though is how badly her inherent pathetic-ness clashes with her eventual super fucked up fate. Like yeah, she's awful, but her biggest crime is micromanagement. If you asked me for an appropriate movie karmic punishment for an annoying co-worker type villain I'd suggest a shot at the end of the film of them holding a cardboard box with all their desk decorations, looking all pouty as security escorts them out of the building. You know, just a quick little "ha-ha fuck you" to see the character off and let the audience breathe a sigh of relief at the fact that there is still justice in the world.

Instead the movie has a 15-foot tall baby and bunch of goddamn centaurs drag her into the darkest woods to kick her shit in. And maybe also rape her. I mean holy shit, the other bad guys are all screaming about how much they love murdering babies and none of them get anywhere near that level of punishment! That's weird, right? I can't be the only one who thinks that's weird.

WHAT'S WITH THE INVISIBLE ZOMBIE HORSES?
Like, in the first four years the carriages the kids ride to school after they get off the trains just sorta drive themselves. That's fine, I mean shit, us Muggles pull that off for our fucking theme park rides. Make a cart follow a set course. Shit's easy.

Only this year they reveal that the karts were never self-driving, but are actually pulled by gross monster horses that you can ONLY SEE if you've watched someone die. We know that they never bother to tell anyone "Yo this is how the carts work" because the only other kid that can see them is constantly bullied for being a crazy person, because she sees things that nobody else sees.

It's like the entire school is set up to make any problems a kid might have worse. Does little Timmy have PTSD from watching a loved one die? Let's make him question his sanity! Is Susan not doing very well in chemistry? We prescribe public shaming! Does Mike have self esteem issues from being ashamed of his body? I'm sure the voyeur ghost in the bathroom can help with that! And for any student that displays xenophobia or anger issues, there's an entire house located in a dark dank cellar, founded by a brazen racist! And if that's not enough to make em worse, the fact that every other house in the school is trained to believe everyone in that house is a BAD GUY sure will.

I mean seriously Hogwarts. Are you doing this shit on purpose? The fuck is wrong with you?

I READ THE BOOK AND WATCHED THE MOVIE AND I STILL HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE PROPHECY SHIT IS GOING ON ABOUT.
That one's totally my fault though. Like, at the hour-fourty-five mark I just sort of start tuning out. Like, oh I guess there's a fate destiny shit that only harry can do? In the center of WORST GOVERNMENT? I'm pretty sure I just started flipping pages at that point in the book, and when I watched the movie last night I was already playing Broforce in the corner of the screen. Something about how, like, Harry and Voldermort are destined to kill eachother or something? I dunno. Whatever.

I'm probably gonna watch Number 6 tonight. That's the book where I just sorta stopped reading a few chapters in, so this is officially the point where my prior knowledge ends. Except of course, for the fact that Snake kills Dumbledore

Should be fun!

#KILLALLWIZARDS

Last edited by BEAT; 06-30-2016 at 12:09 PM. Reason: FIXING TYPOS AND RESISTING THE URGE TO TYPE "HAPPY PORTER AND THE ORDERS FROM MY PENIS" WAIT DAMMIT.
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  #3  
Old 07-01-2016, 08:41 AM
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Default Harry Potter and the Thread for Talking About Harry Potter

Given the Harry Potter discussion we've been having in various threads, I decided it was time for a general one. Also, I've decided to go back through the series and have things I want to say.

I decided to listen to the first book on Audible, because you can get a free 1-month trial and I've never listened to the Harry Potter audiobooks, despite hearing good things. It's good! Jim Dale's narration is excellent, although a few of the voices he does are annoying (Uncle Vernon in particular, and Malfoy sounds all wrong) and I don't like how he pronounces "Voldemort" and "Gryffindor".

One thing that struck me is how much I love both Hagrid and Molly Weasley. They're the first people who ever show Harry any sort of love or affection: Hagrid at the house in the sea and in Diagon Alley; Molly at King's Cross Station. Both those scenes brought back strong memories for me too: going to theme parks with my cool aunt and uncle; being lost and feeling saved by the kindness of a stranger. Those moments, plus Harry's anxiety before the Sorting Hat and his quick friendship with Ron, are conveyed really well by Rowling and demonstrate why the book resonated with so many kids.
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Old 07-01-2016, 09:23 AM
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Would the book be better if Harry's parents hadn't left him a huge inheritance? Sources say yes.
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Old 07-01-2016, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Adrenaline View Post
Would the book be better if Harry's parents hadn't left him a huge inheritance? Sources say yes.
I don't think it detracts from the story, and it's part of his "secret wizarding royalty" narrative, which I quite enjoyed because it's more often a hinderance and a bother for him than it is a problem solving macguffin or used for cheap wish fulfillment. And while he's filthy stinkin rich, as a minor he usually lacks the freedom of movement necessary to actually make use of or withdraw that money ever.
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Old 07-01-2016, 10:06 AM
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The previously-unknown fabulous riches also work when you look at the first book as Charlie and the Chocolate Factory with magic, rather than The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe at a school. I'm actually stunned I had never made the connection before, but Rowling is channeling Dahl so hard. That first chapter especially feels pulled straight from one of his books.
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Old 07-01-2016, 10:18 AM
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I just think the bit about him finally experiencing kindness for the first time is slightly weakened when he can also suddenly buy anything he wants or needs, so the kindness seems less essential. I guess I don't see the point? It's like if Charlie and the Chocolate Factory began with him getting the golden ticket and inheriting the factory.
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Old 07-01-2016, 10:34 AM
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That would be fine it would just be a different story.

A large part of HP's appeal is wish fulfillment so it's fine that he's rich as gangbusters.
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Old 07-01-2016, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Karzac View Post
The previously-unknown fabulous riches also work when you look at the first book as Charlie and the Chocolate Factory with magic, rather than The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe at a school. I'm actually stunned I had never made the connection before, but Rowling is channeling Dahl so hard. That first chapter especially feels pulled straight from one of his books.
Yeah, her style, especially early on, is mostly Dahl and Dickens with a smattering of Austen.
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Old 07-01-2016, 10:50 AM
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I just think the bit about him finally experiencing kindness for the first time is slightly weakened when he can also suddenly buy anything he wants or needs, so the kindness seems less essential. I guess I don't see the point? It's like if Charlie and the Chocolate Factory began with him getting the golden ticket and inheriting the factory.
I really don't think that's the case though. In the first few chapters we see immediately that prosperity and wealth can't actually buy you what's important in life. The Dursleys are pretty well off but they're miserable people. And Harry can see immediately that his friendship with besheveled Ron Weasley is infinitely more rewarding than buying friendship with Draco and his gang. The money is just kind of a nice bonus; Harry really doesn't care about it though and is much more interested in enriching himself more a more esoteric manner.
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Old 07-01-2016, 11:03 AM
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Default Actually my fav what if is imagining the whole series if HP had friended DM

I think Harry was a fool for picking Gryffindor
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Old 07-01-2016, 11:14 AM
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I think Harry was a fool for picking Gryffindor
Slytherin Parents' Weekend '16
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Old 07-01-2016, 11:36 AM
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It's been a while so maybe I'm just forgetting details, but I don't remembering Harry Being Rich being that big of a deal. At the beginning he gets to pick out anything he wants on his shopping spree and it more or less stops being a thing after that.

Also, an important point to remember when thinking about money here is that while writing the first book, Rowling was a very poor single mother typing in cafes with a crying baby at her side.



Also the wizard economy was always pretty weird anyway since magic has the effect of making certain but not all things post-economical anyway. It was always rather hand-wavey.
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Old 07-01-2016, 11:39 AM
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I don't think his money is a huge problem with the story, I just don't see the point of it.

But I guess that's enough about it.
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Old 07-01-2016, 11:40 AM
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Jane Austin huh?
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Old 07-01-2016, 12:00 PM
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So last night I made it through Happy Poppa 6: xXx_BL00DH41F_PR1NC3_420_xXx. I'm not gonna use those header things I used in my last post because fuck organized thoughts.

This movie fucking hates color, to the point where I started wondering if it was secretly directed by Zach Snyder. I get that the story about goddamn magic boarding school is "darker" now but did that really mean we had to tell the majority of the visible spectrum to go fuck itself? I could count on one hand the time I saw colors that weren't just washed out shades of green and gray.

They cut the ONE THING I remember from my aborted attempt at reading the book, which was the fun little intro scene where the Normal Human Prime Minster gets a call from the Magic President where the magic president is like "So uh... hey! Been awhile Huh? So, I don't wanna alarm you but we kinda just found out that a magic terrorist who wants to kill everybody is back. A year ago. He's prolly gonna murder a shit ton of muggles because he's fuckin racist. I mean like yeah I guess I'm a racist too because we all think you guys suck but he's like a RACIST racist. So yeah sorry bout that also I got fired have a nice day". And e muggle prime minster is oh my god are you fucking kidding me. Logically I understand that the scene would have probably been just a little too long and wordy and not very visually interesting in film format, but as it was the only part of the book that left enough of an impression for me to actually remember, I'm kinda sad to see it go. Instead we just see some wizard Assholes break a bridge and the muggles are like "Hey assholes I'm walkin here".

I don't think you see BIG V a single time in this movie. Instead all you get are his flunkies, and memories of back when he was just LIL T. His funkies are all the kind of idiots I wouldn't trust with anything more dangerous than a pair of safety scissors, but none of them moreso than the girl who's trying to channel the Joker. That sort of "LOL I'M FUCKIN RADUM & EVIL" thing can work, but only if it's got Charisma, which... yeah, no. It's just not there. The others barely even register. Weird lady who wants to shake hands for awkwardly long, and like... some guy? He looked mad all the time? I don't fuckin know who cares.

Then there's LIL T's bits. Up to this point in the series the image I had of YUNG VOLDA was that he was BRILLIANT AND AMBITIOUS but perhaps TOO AMBITIOUS meaning he got SEDUCED BY THE POWER OF DARKNESS and blah blah blah. It's bullshit. Within 2 minutes of meeting Dumbledor this kid is fucking bragging about torturing small animals and hurting every one that ever slighted him. That's not a "Promising Student that fell sway to evil" It's fucking Stewie Griffin sans a talking dog to bounce off of. I mean holy fuck Dumbledor, this isn't an "I could have saved him" scynario, there was literally nothing to save from point one. As such it feels really fake and phony when WEIRD TEACHER acts shocked, shocked when the kid asks him how many murders are ENUFF MURDERS.

Speaking of WEIRD TEACHER... yeah what the fuck was the deal with that. Dumbledor telling Harry LOOK I KNOW HE'S WERID BUT U JUST GOTTA LET HIM *COLLECT U* and Harry like WHELP TIME TO GET *COLLECTED*. Just why. Why is this happening.

But what REALLY gets me, is that all that stuff I just mentioned, the actual "Sorta Relevant to the overarching plot" stuff? Like all of that shit is like 20 percent of what's in the movie by volume.

The remaining 80%?

It's a stupid DUMBSHIT GODDAMN MOTHERFUCKING HIGH SCHOOL ROMANCE ANIME. I shit you not. A bunch of Fucking 16-year-olds screaming IT'S NOT LIKE I LIKE YOU OR ANYTHING and then both parties figure out that it actually IS like they LIKE YOU and everything but neither side will admit it because I DON'T FUCKING KNOW and where did all this blood come from?

Uuugggghhhhhh

1 more to go. But really 2 more, because apparently there was SO MUCH in the last one that it TOTALLY NEEDED to be two movies. Apparently this set the trend that eventually gave us the Hunger Games Part 1, which contained 15 minutes of plot and an hour and a half of the main character quietly staring at things.

Oh boy.

#KILLEVERYLASTFUCKINGWIZARD
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Old 07-01-2016, 12:21 PM
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yeah, Rowling's drier bits of humor - the jokes that kids don't get but adults will - are very Austen. as is her careful examination of class privilege. That first train ride to Hogwarts, where Harry can buy the Chocolate Frogs and get the trading cards but Ron can explain what all the trading cards actually mean, is so rich.

and I actually view Harry's riches as being somewhat essential to Rowling's thematic aims. Part of the point about Harry is that he discovers that rather than being unwanted, unspecial, and unloved, he is actually a Child of Privilege. And given that the series is very much an examination of the ways privilege operates in Wizarding society, it's important that Harry breaks with the oppressive path of privilege, again and again. (He does so in ways that his father never did. For all James' gifts, he always thought of himself as Wizarding nobility; he just changed his mode from a spoiled bully to Mr. Noblesse d' Oblige.)
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Old 07-01-2016, 12:30 PM
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Maybe Rowling didn't have to be inspired by Austen just because they both happen to be British. Perhaps there's an unacknowledged influence of Jodi Picoult, whose books you can never escape from in any book store, no matter how hipstery and vegan.
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Old 07-01-2016, 12:42 PM
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Part of the point about Harry is that he discovers that rather than being unwanted, unspecial, and unloved, he is actually a Child of Privilege.
I like how Rowling took the Wicked Stepmother trope to the next level by making the whole family as such.
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Old 07-01-2016, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by upupdowndown View Post
yeah, Rowling's drier bits of humor - the jokes that kids don't get but adults will - are very Austen. as is her careful examination of class privilege. That first train ride to Hogwarts, where Harry can buy the Chocolate Frogs and get the trading cards but Ron can explain what all the trading cards actually mean, is so rich.

and I actually view Harry's riches as being somewhat essential to Rowling's thematic aims. Part of the point about Harry is that he discovers that rather than being unwanted, unspecial, and unloved, he is actually a Child of Privilege. And given that the series is very much an examination of the ways privilege operates in Wizarding society, it's important that Harry breaks with the oppressive path of privilege, again and again. (He does so in ways that his father never did. For all James' gifts, he always thought of himself as Wizarding nobility; he just changed his mode from a spoiled bully to Mr. Noblesse d' Oblige.)
Good points!
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Old 07-01-2016, 01:20 PM
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Maybe Rowling didn't have to be inspired by Austen just because they both happen to be British.
Because they're both British, no. Because Jane Austin is Rowling's favorite novelist, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JK Rowling
My favourite writer of all time is Jane Austen. I'm excruciating company when watching a Jane Austen television or film adaptation because I writhe with irritation whenever I see a large, florid actor playing Mr Woodhouse - or Mr Darcy taking a gratuitous dip because apparently he isn't sexy enough without a wet shirt. My attitude to Jane Austen is accurately summed up by that wonderful line from Cold Comfort Farm: "One of the disadvantages of almost universal education was that all kinds of people gained a familiarity with one's favourite books. It gave one a curious feeling; like seeing a drunken stranger wrapped in one's dressing gown."

I re-read Austen's novels in rotation - I've just started Mansfield Park again. I could have chosen any number of passages from each of her novels, but I finally settled on Emma, which is the most skilfully managed mystery I've ever read and has the merit of having a heroine who annoys me because she is in some ways so like me. I must have read it at least 20 times, always wondering how I could have missed the glaringly obvious fact that Frank Churchill and Jane Fairfax were engaged all along. But I did miss it, and I've yet to meet a person who didn't, and I have never set up a surprise ending in a Harry Potter book without knowing I can never, and will never, do it anywhere near as well as Austen did in Emma.
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Old 07-01-2016, 01:30 PM
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I mean, she named a cat in the series after one of Austen's "villains" and then proceeded to give the feline that characters main trait.

Plus I wasn't just talking about thematic elements. The language is very obviously heavily influenced by the three authors I mentioned upthread as well.
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Old 07-01-2016, 02:30 PM
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My grandma bought me a hardcover copy of the first Harry Potter book when I was a kid. I got through the first ten pages that day.
And then my mom took it out back and burned it.

That's about as much as I know about Harry Potter apart from cultural osmosis.
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Old 07-01-2016, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by WisteriaHysteria View Post
I really don't think that's the case though. In the first few chapters we see immediately that prosperity and wealth can't actually buy you what's important in life. The Dursleys are pretty well off but they're miserable people. And Harry can see immediately that his friendship with besheveled Ron Weasley is infinitely more rewarding than buying friendship with Draco and his gang. The money is just kind of a nice bonus; Harry really doesn't care about it though and is much more interested in enriching himself more a more esoteric manner.
This is exactly it. I'll add, too, that the most significant effect of the money early on (other than the convenience of explaining how Harry can buy all his school supplies) is that he can share it with Ron. On the Hogwarts Express, for instance: "'Go on, have a pasty,' said Harry, who had never had anything to share before or, indeed, anyone to share it with." Note that this is not him buying friendship, but rather an already budding friendship enhanced through sharing.
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Old 07-01-2016, 07:43 PM
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his money doesn't come up that much because usually people just give him free shit
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Old 07-01-2016, 08:25 PM
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his money doesn't come up that much because usually people just give him free shit
Harry frequently gets rad gifts in front of his poor friends, it's hilarious.
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Old 07-01-2016, 09:21 PM
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ron goes through all of year 2 with a broken wand that presents a danger to himself and others; in year 3 harry is handed a free wizarding world equivalent of a luxury sports car
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Old 07-01-2016, 09:38 PM
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Because they're both British, no. Because Jane Austin is Rowling's favorite novelist, yes.
I'm holding to my Jodi Picoult theory despite evidence to the contrary.
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Old 07-01-2016, 09:48 PM
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Harry Potter is good despite itself
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Old 07-01-2016, 10:19 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 10,598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pajaro Pete View Post
ron goes through all of year 2 with a broken wand that presents a danger to himself and others; in year 3 harry is handed a free wizarding world equivalent of a luxury sports car
the principal of the school knows a magic spell that can fix broken wands: he lets ron almost die
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