The Return of Talking Time

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Old 01-27-2019, 07:38 PM
Kahran042 Kahran042 is offline
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Default Family Reunion

You may recall that the last remaining sidequest is reuniting Kaleb with his son. Said son is in Flog, so here we are.

These are Ronan's oft-mentioned Minions. Despite Rian referring to them as "Blue Meanies," they're actually two distinct monsters. That being said, Ronan Minions are a bit unusual. They scream when killed, like humans, but unlike humans, you get experience for killing them. In fact, they have the third-highest experience value of all monsters, at 110. However, these ones aren't attacking, and we'll have to come back here later, so no point in provoking them...yet.

There are a lot of people in this town, and most of them are willing to talk. However, I'm going to save that for later. For now, priority one is finding Jay.

When day breaks, the Ronan Minions start patrolling the town. Fortunately, they're basically just like the other town guards, so they aren't too much of a risk.

There aren't any other kids in this town, so this must be Jay.

He's pretty quick. I followed him all the way here, only to find that he's sleeping. Looks like I'll have to wait a while. The next day...

name: "Jay. My Mommie and Daddy tell me that my full name is Jay-sun. Have you seen them?"
job: "Mommie and Daddie always said that I was lucky I was too young to work and that one day I would be sore all the time like they are because some guy works them too hard and that wouldn't it be nice if we could get away from this town and stuff. Have you seen my Mommie and Daddy?"
mommie: "Have you seen them? Some people call them Kaleb and Rebecca but I call them Mommie and Daddie. I last saw my Mommie and Daddie a couple of a while ago. 'We're going to Exin' was the last thing I remember Daddie said. Mommie told me to hurry after them. But I couldn't. I tripped up and fell. Mommie came back to help me but then I don't remember what happened to her oh it was scary. But then they were both gone and I couldn't find them at all. Have you seen them?"

As you can see, every response ends with Jay asking Katrielle if she's seen his parents. Answering yes...

Yes, it's an escort mission. Were you expecting anything else? Thankfully, it's the last one. However, like escorting Eric way back on Un, there is a twist.

If you try to leave by the front gate, the Ronan Minions will become hostile, and since you have a kid to watch, that's not a good thing. Fortunately, there is a secret exit.

Pull this lever...

...and a segment of the east wall opens up, granting an alternate exit.

Once you're on the overworld, escorting Jay back to Exin should be a piece of cake.

And we're in! Now to head to the farm and wait for Kaleb.

Let's see what Kaleb has to say now that we've reunited him with his son.

The item in question is a Glowing Rock, an inexhaustible and slotless light source. The only problem is how late in the game you get it, but it is definitely worth it.

Next time, we explore Flog more thoroughly and find out about the situation there.

Last edited by Kahran042; 01-28-2019 at 03:53 PM.
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Old 01-28-2019, 09:32 AM
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Lucas Lucas is offline
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The Glowing Rock link is broken. I'm assuming it's a big chunk of radium though, which would have already killed Katrielle by cancer if she had had it through the entire game up to this point.
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Old 01-28-2019, 12:15 PM
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There aren't any other kids in this town, so this must be Jay.
That makes two children total. Hmmmm.
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Old 01-30-2019, 08:49 AM
Kahran042 Kahran042 is offline
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Default Revolutionary Girl Katrielle

Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
The Glowing Rock link is broken.
Just fixed it.

Anyway, today we're heading back to Flog, this time to actually explore it and talk to the townsfolk. As I alluded to in the previous update, though, this town has a LOT of people to talk to. In fact, I think it has the most interactible NPCs of any town in the game. That being said, I'll explore the town and talk to anyone I can while doing so, then add the rest at the end of the update.

The first accessible building is what appears to be a bunkhouse. There's someone who seems to be sleeping, but talking to him/her gives the "lacks your penchant" response, rather than the "Best not to wake them" response.

It's also interesting to note that the bunkhouse seems to be bigger on the inside, and that there's apparently a passage in the west wall. Hmmm...

Northwest of the bunkhouse is a small library, containing copies of Badge of Evil and Tricks of the Odyssey Gurus and a Gilded Book.

North of that is what appears to be a dining hall.

Further north and a bit east is another bunkhouse, this one without the suspicious dimensions of the first.

Just north of the second bunkhouse is the building with the lever to open the secret door in the east city wall, and someone who's actually willing to talk.

name: "My name's Christopher, but most of them just call me Chuck around here."
job: "I'm pretty much in charge of running the north kitchen here in wretched Flog. I guess I'm lucky, really, I mean feeding all these people is no easy feet, but my work's so much easier than what the rest of the people here in Flog are submitted too. I mean, the long hours, and stuff.. The worst thing about my job is simply not having enough food to feed everyone. The minions make sure of that, from his order up on high... Ronan, I'm sure he's got enough to eat."
flog: "Maybe this town of Flog was nice once, but with Ronan... it sure isn't. I don't know what to say. It's just terrible... I mean, I look at the faces of the people here, and they don't look like they should. I mean, nobody hardly ever smiles or anything. I mean, I guess, what's there to smile about, right? It's just pretty depressing to live around here."
ronan: "Nah, I don't want to talk about Ronan. I mean, it just makes me upset. Go talk to Thom... he'll tell you all about Ronan. Talk your ear off, he will. A good guy, though. A real good guy."
minion: "Who knows about the Minions? I mean, I don't blame them, they're like mindless. I mean, I wish they were mindless enough that I convince them to bring me more food, but you know... They do whatever Ronan wants, I don't know if they really do have a mind of their own... they're just strange and all. I do wonder though, I mean it's a real mystery, where does he get them all from? I mean, things like those minions don't just sprout up out of the ground. It's a wonder."
food: "Yeah, well I'm told to make food for everybody, but they only give me enough raw materials to feed maybe half as many people as there are. I mean, it's not the Minions' fault... they just bring the food here. No, it's Ronan that has done this to these people. I've seen too many people starve, it just makes me sick. I try to give everybody the same amount, and for some it's enough to survive on, but for others it's just not. You know, people are different in how much food they need. But let me tell you, I do try to make it taste good... I've concocted 27 different varieties of gruel, each one with a unique flavor all its own."
thom: "Oh Thom? Well, I know him from... stuff we do together. I don't know, I'm not really so into it as he is, but I mean, I agree, killing Ronan is no solution. I mean, what am I but a cook, right? But I can't sanction death for any reason, I guess, I don't know, regardless of how convincing the Slayers may be. I mean, Thom's the one to talk to. He's got it all figured out really well. You can find him wandering around town usually any time of the day. Somehow he doesn't have to do much work..."
slayers: "They're those other folks... I mean, they're the group of Flogians who think that Ronan has to be deposed at all costs... and that means his death. That's why they call themselves the Slayers, I imagine. I mean, who knows who's right? I mean, I do, I know that killing anybody's wrong. It's just wrong terribly wrong. I couldn't justify thinking that way with myself, you know? I mean, that's why I'm with Thom. Pax Flog we call ourselves... We have to save Flog... but we need some other method. I wish Thom would think up what, though..."
pax: "Pax Flog you want to know about. Ask Thom, I tell you, ask Thom. Whatever he says, I agree with it one-hundred percent."

You may have recalled some people in Exin mentioning the Slayers and the Pax Flog. Pretty much everyone here is a member of one or the other and has something to say about them. And apparently the demonym for Flog is "Flogian"...all this time I've been saying "Floggish". Guess I learned something new today.

Just outside the dining hall is this man.

name: "Ah, as I said, and as some have accused me of saying too often, my name is Orson."
job: "Well, I do wish that I could say my job was an Architect. I really have no basis for saying that however: I've never actually been one, but, of course, how could I in this environment of hate-ridden Flog. No, no, I work as do all the others, in the fields. Due to my size, I can survive the long work day much better than most others. I also spend some of my time working with the Pax Flog to try and figure a way for freedom for all, peacefully."
island: "Is there a world outside of Flog? Heh, I've only heard stories of it, and prefer not to repeat idle rumors."
flog: "Yes, poor Flog. Long ago, was it different? Was there a time before Ronan, was there a time when we could leave to explore the land outside? I'm fairly young, and have only heard third or fourth hand the tales of old Flog. I even heard it used to be called Frog, funny eh? No one lives very long here in Flog: the work days are simply too long for anyone of any age. And it's sad, it's very very sad."
ronan: "I prefer not to talk about the Fiend or his lackeys, if you do not mind."
slayers: "The Slayers! The Slayers! How I loathe them. Who are they to presume they have any right to decide who lives and dies? Who died and made them God? To say they're doing a good for the sake of the town: how can such a vile, evil act as murder lead to good? And once they are in power, who is to say they won't deem each of the Pax Flog worthy to die, as well? I loathe them, despise them."
pax: "I work with Pax Flog: we hope to somehow free the people of Flog, but we cannot yet discover a peaceful way to achieve this. Liberation won't come easy, though, no matter what we hope for."

The other guy on the screen also has things to say, and here they are.

name: "They just call me Melish, which is okay."
job: "My job is to... work the fields. But they understand I am not very strong. They make up for me, I am very grateful for that. The Minions, they have not noticed. Ronan, he has not noticed. So I can continue."
flog: " I would like to say I like Flog. But I cannot. Ronan makes me not like Flog... he must be killed. For killing Joey, he must be killed. For killing the beauty. He must be killed. Ronan must die. Vengeance must be served. Yes? Yes. Ronan must be killed."
ronan: "He is a mean horrible person. A fiend. He must be killed. Must be killed. Must be killed. Must be killed. He killed my friend a while ago. Not him. But one of his Minions did it. It was terribly, I did like Joey so. I... miss Joey. There was no reason for him to die, it was just random. Ronan likes things random, I think. He must be killed. Must be killed."
slayers: "The Slayers are strong. We are strong. Alone, I am weak, but with the Slayers I am strong. It is good. When we take over, there will be a new ruling way. No more Ronan. Our new government will be election by the Slayers, the only sane people here. It will be a good ruler then. They put me in charge, the Slayers did. Matthew is my friend. He gives me something to do. To prepare. Ronan must be killed."
pax: "Dummies. Dummies dummies dummies dummies. Dummies."
joey: "Oh Joey, poor little Joey. Would we have had a child some day? I do not know. He was so sweet. But I will never know. Because of Ronan. He must be killed."
matthew: "He is my friend. The leader of us. He makes us strong. I would be weak without him. I would be weak without the Slayers. You know him? You are good too. Help us, please, we must be free. Vengeance for Joey. Life for all. Ronan must be killed."

The north end of town is dedicated to the fields where most Flogians work. Conveniently, it's nightfall, so most of them are on their way home. This means we can get all their conversations out of the way.

name: "I'm called Mino; it's short for Minostopoles."
job: "I work in the fields here in Flog, growing all manner of crops. It's more like slavery, really. Luckily I can take it, many others cannot. That's why Ronan has to be stopped, I only wish I knew how."
flog: "I can't say that I like Flog, but you know, what choice do I have? It's not like there's anywhere else to go. I mean, Thom would have told me if there was, right? I've seen too many people die though. I'm lucky, I'm strong, I can take it. Others can't. Not so well."
ronan: "Who knows about Ronan, right? I mean, he lives up in this big tower, and I certainly have seen first hand the amount of food that gets funneled in. Heh, but wouldn't it be funny if it turned out it was the Minions who were running everything, just using him as an excuse for their acts. I mean, who can really say? Maybe there's just some poor innocent slob up there who doesn't know his right from left. I mean, I almost pity the poor sucker. Almost."
minion: "Are the Minions human, I wonder? I mean, they're nothing like us, really. All brutish, seemingly no feelings, no thoughts, nothin'. They just make our lives miserable. Who makes their lives miserable? 'Cause they don't seem terribly happy with their work."
slayers: "They get my blood boiling, they really do. They're revolting to me, you know, with their self-righteousness. Anyone can see that we, the Pax Flog, are the right ones. I mean, it's pretty terribly obvious. Just go talk to Thom, he can explain it much better than a simple soul such as m'self can."
pax: "Pax Flog, that's the group I'm a member of. I mean, we at least don't do anything as horrible as wishing someone dead, right? That's what it really comes down to. I don't rightly know who's right and who's wrong any more than the next bloke, right? So, who am I to go off and kill someone? The Slayers... what a bunch of ghoulish Fiends. I could kill 'em."
thom: "Ah, Thom, now there's a smart man. He's leader of Pax Flog, my favorite organization around here certainly. The fellow does seem lucky - he doesn't have to do any work like the rest of us, who knows how he gets away with it. More power to him, I say. He can talk your ear off though, so watch out. Anyway, you can usually find him wandering the streets here and there. He'll tell you what's up much better than I can."

So, wait. Is it "Flogian" or "Floger"?

name: "My name's Shashishta. Think you can remember that? Good."
job: "Well, I don't have it so bad as many of the other folks here in Flog, it's true... Nature has blessed me with a sizable body and all, and ah can take the long work hours on little food. I figure, even if I wasn't forced to, I'd still work the fields. I mean, I do like the feel of a hard day's work: not what I do now, that's more, it's inhuman. But that's what the Minions make me do, so I have no choice. I also work with the Slayers, but just a little bit, to try and figure out away to get into that ugly tower in the center of town and kill Ronan. Kill him dead."
flog: "I must admit, ah do like Flog and all. Well, I mean, except for Ronan, the Minions, the unsanitariness of the whole place, the long hours, the bad food, the Pax Flog, the fact that we can't leave, and all that. Except for that it's a great place, really."
ronan: "That's what ah hate, is a man who eats more than his share of food. Food's something of a specialty of mine, I mean even if ah wasn't forced to grow it, I probably would anyway. But I see the amount of food that goes into that tower of his. He must be such a disgusting fat slob, and there's just no excuse for that. The pervert."
minion: "I have to respect the Minions, though. They put in a hard day's work, all of um. It's not their fault their boss is a jerk, right? Right."
food: "My body screams at me to feed it more than I do, but I can't cause I eat what's given to me, and that's all there is. Food for the workers is scarce here in Flog, which just isn't right, 'cause there sure is enough food for that big fat fiend Ronan. I should know, I help grow it, like everyone else does. I'm lucky though, my body may scream at me, but it doesn't die on me like of my friends. I... I just want to kill that creep Ronan, for what he's done to all of us. That's why I'm with the Slayers."
slayers: "The Slayers, you've heard of them, right? They're the group in town that's going to put a stop to the stuff that goes on here: no more long hours, no more suffering, none of that. And you know how we're going to do it? By killing Ronan, that's how! He makes us all suffer, he kills people at random, I hear he eats some of our corpses too. The guy is sick. And he needs to die. I mean, I'm all for everybody being happy and alive and all, but he's just gone too far. Way too far. That's where the Pax Flog are wrong."
pax: "You know, I really don't like those Pax Flogers. I mean, I really hate em: they keep arguing you can't just kill anybody. I mean, if you can't kill Ronan, who can you kill, right! I mean, he needs to die so we can all... live, you know."

Despite most of his coworkers having left, this guy is still in the fields.

name: "My name is simply Bard, to remember that shant be very hard."
job: "In the fields I do toil, till the heat of the day causes my blood to boil. But My true labor of love, something that I do all else above, is to rhyme for my fellow citizens of Flog, so that they do not feel like a beaten down dog. My theory is simple it is this, to make the lives of all so not amiss, for though I realize the struggle against Ronan is all but lost, I hope to make people not realize so fully the horrible cost."
flog: "Flog, oh Flog, to live in you I need drink much bootleg grog. This is the poor city which has fallen under the command of the evil Ronan the Fiend, such a bastard that he does not deserve a rhyme."
ronan: "Many realize that Ronan is the big bad bully in Flog, and more still wish that through some magic he might be turned into a Frog. But perhaps it is more the case that the Fiend is actually a tragic man, having to fight against a desire to do evil with all he can. That is why I figure no one of us can sentence him to death, for we might be sending him to an unjust end by our own breath. This is why I associate with the peaceful Pax Flog, for with them I need not go soothe my conscience by drinking much grog."
slayers: "The Slayers are those who hope to kill maim and slay by their very essence, I do dislike so much to be in their vile, disgusting, and repulsive presence. If my group the Pax were to break our vows against killing, I would so enjoy to give the Slayers a thorough and sound thrashing."
pax: "Pax Flog is the group to which I belong, for it is the one who truly hopes that we can all get along. But still the Slayers are the biggest bunch of nincompoops I have ever seen, I would like to rip from each of them their ever-loving spleen."

Further in the fields are two more workers. The one in the white shirt doesn't want to talk right now, and the one in blue lacks Katrielle's penchant for conversation.

At the south end of town is a small shop with an interesting owner.

Bad news: I can't afford any of his wares.

Good news: I have equipment that's as good or better, including a Bastitch Sword of my own.

By the way, we have met Armor Alvin - he's the armor shop owner in Niac, and has the same sprite as Bastitch Bob. Although Bob Bushwhacker never appears in the game, he is mentioned in the manual in the section on talking to NPCs as a sample character, and he's presumably the author of Bob Bushwhacker's Weapon Guide.

The east side of town features a stockyard filled with Spamalopes and NPCs. Unfortunately, this one doesn't want to talk right now.

However, while leaving the stockyard, I meet this more talkative fellow.

name: "My name is Rigel."
job: "I work in the livestock area on the East End of Flog. It's wretched work, long hours. Often the creatures are disease ridden and we don't have the facilities to help them: it's not a job for anyone who loves animals as much as I do. The policy, set by the great Fiend himself is that it's more cost effective to just discard the diseased ones than to try and save them. They'll all be killed in the most cruel way, eventually, anyway. They would never hurt anyone, not like that bastard Ronan the Fiend does. He revels in it... The creatures, the poor animals."
flog: "It is said that Flog used to be named Frog after the green creatures that used to inhabit it in small numbers, but then Ronan the Fiend decided that was too pleasant a name for any town he was the despot of. So he had it renamed after what his henchmen do to their captives. So the story goes... Flog was once a nice place: I have heard the stories told by the elders. But they are all dead, and the memory of a happy Flog has died with them. Perhaps the reality of a wretched Flog will die with Ronan."
ronan: "Why, you don't know who Ronan the Fiend is? He is the one responsible for the current status of Flog. He is responsible for all of our misery. Did you know that he periodically sweeps through the town and selects someone at random to be taken and killed? Just as an example to us? Women and children get no special treatment from him. He lives in unmeasurable luxury in his tower in the center of town, while we work ourselves close to death to farm the food and raise the animals for him to gorge himself on. And we get none of it... my first child starved because there simply was not enough food given to us. Now I ask you, does a fiend like that deserve to live?"
slayers: "You know of the Slayers and the great Matthew? Wonderful, I know I am in the presence of a noble man. Matthew can be found behind the farm around midnight every night - but we mustn't talk more here. Who knows who might overhear, and whether they are under Ronan's control? Be careful my brother, do not mention our secret again."

As a side note regarding the town's former name, there's actually a swampy little pond in the southeast corner, which would probably be a good place for frogs. Just a little detail I noticed for the first time.

With the town explored, here are the rest of the townsfolk, starting with the guy who didn't want to talk in the stockyard.

This is all he has to say, if you're wondering.

name: "Clive."
job: "When one thinks about our situation on an abstract level, everyone here in Flog, with the exception of Ronan, has the same job: survive. So that is what I do. In order to survive, I obey the Minions and work long hours in the livestock area. For me though, there must be something else than mere survival, I spend many hours in the small library thinking over just what our condition means, what the socio-political implications are. I spend much time thinking of how correct the Slayers' position is, as well."
flog: "Ronan has passed the need for survival, and now promotes his own notion of self-betterment. But it is at the cost of many other's survival. When such a person exists, who has passed his need to the point of consuming just for the sake of consumption, it is a societal responsibility to remove that person, for the good of all. We each have the right to survive, but he, having passed that stage, no longer has that right. So it is the right and duty of those of us who remain to do all we can to help ourselves survive, and that necessitates his death. Thus, the Slayers logically are clearly in the right."
minion: "The Minions are just as the rest of us, yes? They do what they must, to survive. No doubt Ronan has some sort of hold over them: they do not seem too intelligent, perhaps he has deceived them into thinking their survival relies on their forcing us to do what he wants. But no matter. I do pity the Minions, for they do not seem able to think about their condition as the rest of us are, though I am one of the few to do so."
slayers: "I do not know if the rest of the Slayers hold such a logical, well thought-out way of thinking about their position as I do, but they are still right, none-the-less, regardless of how they reached their own personal conclusion. The Slayers all agree, with vehemence, that Ronan's life must end, for the good of us all. Little more needs to be said. For more information, you should really consult Matthew, for he leads us."
pax: "The Pax Flog. I do not understand how any could be so stupid as to believe the flawed logic they speak. What do they know, really? That they have not the right to end another's life, no matter what the cost? But surely, with their own survival so jeopardized by Ronan's continued existence, they cannot allow him to continue to live. Surely, can they not see that? I do hate them, their stupidity, their arrogance. And, their existence hinders my own survival: surely Ronan could not stand against a united Flog, and it is the Pax which prevent that unity, and for that I cannot tolerate their existence, either."

name: "Most just call me Thom for short."
job: "Well, it is lucky for me that Ronan's minions are so dumb. They seem to consistently not notice that I do no work. It gives me more time to spread the word of Pax Flog."
agressat: "Part of what gives Ronan his power is the fact that Agressat is filled with those monsters... it is not possible to leave Flog without risking your own life. I have heard tell of some who live to the North, in the abandoned town of Exin. But I am too cowardly to find out, I admit. Yet, everyday in Flog is a risk to my life as well. Were it not for the monsters, Agressat could be free to us all."
flog: "Flog... I have heard stories of better days in Flog, before Ronan came to be, before the monsters roamed and ravaged the countryside of our island Agressat. But now is the darkest of all times, for not only are the evil ways of Ronan so prevalent, but also we are faced with the great, horrible hatred that runs between the Pax Flog - my people - and the Slayers. We differ so much in opinion, but the hatred we have for each other is far worse than anything Ronan has done. We lack solidarity... I do not hate the Slayers myself, but when opinions differ so greatly, it is hard for my comrades to restrain themselves. This is a sad time for Flog."
exin: "I have heard of Exin, the town to the North where some former Flogians live in hiding from Ronan. Perhaps life is happy up there... one could get there by taking the secret exit out of Flog. If you're interested, ask Chuck in the North Kitchen about the secret exit. But I cannot even think of leaving while there is still work to be done here in Flog. Flog must be saved, without bloodshed, and I must stay here to help. There must be a way, there must."
ronan: "Ronan. Ronan the Fiend many call him, and I would have a hard time disagreeing with that judgment. Would Flog be a better place without Ronan? I believe so.... but not enough to kill him. The Slayers - they would have you think that by the strength of their numbers they can make the judgment as to who lives and who dies. But who are any of us to make that distinction... and once it is made, then who else will be worthy of death by their almighty decree. Soon we shall return to anarchy. But Ronan... he is a Fiend, truly, I cannot dispute that. The things he has done... they make me ill. And who knows what has happened to my poor Robyn..."
minion: "Ronan's Minions... they are so like the monsters outside, though their rage is contained to following Ronan's orders. It is truly an enigma, their existence. I do not know if I would even see them as human... Who can say. But luckily for all, they are so very stupid... life could be much worse in Flog - it's hard to imagine, isn't it - were they not so dumb. Thank the creator for something, at least."
slayers: "The ones who advocate the killing, they call themselves the Slayers after what they one day hope to do to Ronan... They do not understand that the solution they suggest - the mob execution of Ronan - will only lead to an anarchy which will destroy what is left of the civilization we developed. Yet just because they are so wrong to my eyes, I do not hate them. I almost pity them. Many of my comrades in the Pax Flog - they hate the Slayers. They do not realize that hatred never solves anything. Someday... someday... someday..."
pax: "You know of us, of Pax Flog? You know then too, that I am the leader of Pax Flog. All in Flog know that... either our members tell all what a wonderful organization we are, or the Slayers tell all what a horrible group we are, and, in particular, what a fool I am. But is it foolish to try to preserve life? We simply cannot understand how killing anyone can solve any problem. There must always be another way. There must... or are we no better than the monsters which roam the island, ripping each other to shreds. No better at all. Ronan may be terrible, but no man - or group of men - can condemn another to death. That belief is inherent to my being."
robyn: "I usually do not discuss the workings of Pax Flog with those who I have just recently been acquainted with... but I must tell someone. Some weeks ago, my dear Robyn, who shares my convictions about the sanctity of life, was sent into Ronan's tower in the center of town. It was an investigative trip, to see how Ronan could be reached and, perhaps, convinced that what he does is wrong. But she was to be very careful, to take no chances... selfishly I begged her not to go, but it was important to her that we make some progress... but she has never come back. She is lost to the horrors of Ronan's tower forever. But you... you you you. You are strong, you look formidable as no other here. Will you help me?"

Last edited by Kahran042; 01-30-2019 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 01-30-2019, 08:49 AM
Kahran042 Kahran042 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Southeastern New Hampshire
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Default Continued from previous post.

Saying yes will yield the following:

I'm guessing this is a reference to Paranoid Productions' earlier game Minotaur: The Labyrinths of Crete, which Odyssey's engine was based on. Anyway, we've met the leader of Pax Flog and gotten his viewpoint, but let's look for this Matthew person to find out more about the Slayers before we make any decisions. Rigel said he was behind the farm, so let's go there. En route, I find some Arrows of Slaying, which might actually be useful now that I finally have a bow that doesn't suck.

It turns out he was that one field worker in the white shirt who didn't want to talk.

This is all he has to say normally. But if you call him by name...

...he'll open up. Here's what he has to say.

name: "My name's... hey, you already know my name, don't let it get around... if my name is mentioned too much the big guy will have me killed just to be safe."
job: "I set up things among the Slayers you know... it's more work than you might think, to properly plan to kill a guy."
flog: "Flog... I've heard it used to be a good place, but long long ago. Before he came and ruined it all. That's why he's got to go: did you know he sends those mindless minions of his out through the town once in a while just to execute someone at random? Well, he does. That's why we've got to kill him. I mean, everyone is worked too hard, and he gets all the reward. Lots of people are afraid to raise children because lots most of them starve because Ronan takes all the food. It's terrible, I tell you."
exin: "Have you been to Exin, man? Great great. I mean, they know that there's no good life for anyone in Flog, so they just packed up and left for that old abandoned town. I heard that Ronan sends his Minions over there to clear the place out once in a while. I hope the Exin people do well. Great great. But we, those who stay here anyway, the Slayers, we cannot abandoned our hometown. It's all we've ever known, why should he ruin it for the rest of us? Ronan is just evil, and once he's slain maybe the people of Exin can come back here. It will be a great day the day Ronan dies. Great great."
ronan: "Ronan the Fiend. He lives up in the tower that we're right next to, see it? He is what we're all against, what we have to kill in order to be happy, right? I mean, I know I wouldn't be a better leader or anything, but the Slayers, us, we have a new form of government that would work better. But he cannot be allowed to continue, Ronan the Fiend... they say he actually enjoys being called that. I believe it after all the stuff he does. He lives on the third floor of that tower, gorging himself on all the food we have to grow and breed for him. We Slayers, of course, want him to not live anywhere - to kill him - if you know what I'm saying. Great great."
minion: "You must have seen them, right? Those big lugs with the weird skin? I don't know where Ronan gets them from, but they do all his work. I mean, it's not really work, they just make sure we do work. He never leaves his tower, the fat slime, living up there in his luxury while we suffer down here. The Minions are pretty stupid, too... we've tricked them quite a few times. But none of us stands a chance against him physically. They don't seem human really... it's strange. Where do they come from? We'll never know... but once Ronan's killed, everything will be taken care of. They'll go away, I know they will."
slayers: "The Slayers... a good name for us, right? I mean, we're all dedicated to seeing Ronan thrown out of power at any cost. If a couple of us die, that's okay, as long as he cannot hurt the people of Flog any more. The only way to restore justice is to kill him: it's what has to be done. Great great."
pax: "You're not with the Pax are you? I mean, I hate them almost as much as I hate Ronan. They just miss it, the point. They don't get it that the only way to get the justice we all crave - and the vengeance too - is to kill him. He certainly deserves no less. I mean, can you imagine arguing that he deserves to live? It's ludicrous. The Pax... they hurt us all, hold us back, try to stop us from doing the work everyone agrees needs to be done. Those nimrods. Once Ronan is dead, once we have slain him, then they'll finally understand. Then and only then. Great. Great."

If we inquire about killing, he has this to say.

And if you say yes...

Might as well go all the way.

So, we've met with the leaders of the two resistance factions in Flog, and each of them has given us a password to give to one of their subordinates, who will then help us infiltrate Ronan's tower. Both sides have good points, but should we go with the Slayers or the Pax Flog?
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Old 01-30-2019, 08:51 AM
Kahran042 Kahran042 is offline
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Default Bonus Update 4: Assorted Agressat Addenda

Believe it or not, there's even more dialogue that didn't make it into that last update. First of all, here's what people in Exin have to say about the Slayers and the Pax Flog. We've already heard what Ali has to say about the Slayers, Victor and Sharon both give the same responses as they do to queries about Flog, Kaleb will always give the same response to everything after being reunited with Jay, and Mary will just give her generic "I dunno" response, but here are the rest.

Ali (on Pax): "The Pax Flog! Hah! A bunch of beasts with their heads in the sands. They are not brutish and violent as beasts, yet they are as stupid, if not more stupid. And they ignore the suffering all around for their own higher purposes. My hatred for them used to be vehement but now that I'm here in Exin, it's more pity I feel for them."
Elizabeth (on either faction): "Pax Flog and the Slayers are the two factions that have developed in Flog, and, to me, they are just as repulsive as Ronan himself. They both hate each other so vehemently, both are so self-assured that they alone are right. I don't know whose opinion I would agree with, but I know that the way they treat each other is without excuse. Some of them, it seems, forget who the real enemy is. Of course, without Ronan neither one of them would exist... But still, I pity them for their petty hatred."
Kaleb (on either faction, before being reunited with Jay): "Those two groups - Pax Flog and the Slayers - they were one of the main reasons I knew I had to leave Flog at all costs. I mean, I knew the risks... and now I know them all too well, what with Rebecca gone forever and Jay just as well gone forever. But those two groups... I mean, no one will deny the horrors Ronan was inflicting on Flog, truly dreadful stuff. No contesting that, but then the Slayers and Pax Flog, both so sure they're right and the other are dead wrong. And their hatred for each other made the town just as wretched a place to live in as did Ronan. I mean, is either of them any righter than the other? No, I don't think so."

Also, Thom said to ask Chuck about the secret exit.

Although we already know about said exit, this is what he has to say about it.

Finally, you may recall that Rigel asked Katrielle if she thought Ronan deserved to live. If you say yes...

After this, he won't say anything else until you exit the conversation and talk to him again. Saying no has a more interesting result, as follows: aren't talking to a man at all.

Saying yes to this question yields this:

Once he's said this, his response to inquiries about the Slayers will permanently change, as follows:

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Old 01-30-2019, 08:28 PM
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Torzelbaum Torzelbaum is offline
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Maybe a dumb question but have you ever tried asking any of these characters about frog?
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Old 01-31-2019, 07:12 AM
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Gotta be honest, neither the Slayers nor Pax Flog strike me as great people. I see we go with whatever route will make them both miserable.
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Old 01-31-2019, 12:39 PM
Kahran042 Kahran042 is offline
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Default Don't Wear Your Best Sandals

Originally Posted by Torzelbaum View Post
Maybe a dumb question but have you ever tried asking any of these characters about frog?
I hadn't until now, but no one in either town has a response to it anyway. Shame, really.

Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
Gotta be honest, neither the Slayers nor Pax Flog strike me as great people. I see we go with whatever route will make them both miserable.
The best way I can think of to do that would probably be to show off both paths in one update. First, the easy way. You may recall that Thom, leader of the Pax Flog, said to give Mino the password "crete". If we do so...

...he'll unlock the back door of Ronan's tower, and we can just head right in. But that's too easy and, more importantly, doesn't have as much loot. So let's try the path suggested by Matthew of the Slayers.

Specifically, giving Clyde the password "bruckman" in the southern barracks.

On doing so, he opens the secret wall shown on the automap in the last update, which leads to a small room containing a One-Handed Crossbow, some Arrows and Bolts of Slaying, and a lever which opens the secret wall from this side. Most important, though, is the ladder leading into...

...the obligatory sewer dungeon. This small room contains a Horrific Halberd and a Healing Herb. It doesn't look like it has an exit, but there is a secret wall, which leads into the main section of the sewers.

The sewers are infested with Wretched Worms. Each worm is worth 90 experience, so it's a good place for leveling. By the way, remember back on Emas when I incorrectly stated that Wretched Worms only appeared in Breamtown and one other dungeon? This is that dungeon. I can still say that they're the only two dungeons to feature multiple Wretched Worms, though.

As you can see, there are a lot of paths in this sewer. We're in the west part, and Matthew said that the entrance to Ronan's tower is in the center, which means that east is the right way. So, naturally, that's the last way I'm going to go.

This is the other theme of this dungeon - LOTS of secret walls, which is where most of the good loot is. In addition to the visible Moood Helm, this one also has two Lanterns, a Shovel, a Pick Axe, and a copy of the psionic Befriend, which prevents monsters from attacking or something. I don't really use effect psionics much, so I'm not entirely sure.

In addition to the way I entered, this secret passage has exits in each of the diagonals, although they all lead to the same basic areas.

Surprise, surprise, there's another secret passage in the east wall of this room.

It's more linear than the previous one, but still pretty convoluted.

And, like everywhere in the sewers, full of free experience Wretched Worms.

See that purple ToeJam wannabe? That's a Monster from the Id, one of the few monsters actually mentioned in the manual.

Originally Posted by Odyssey: The Legend of Nemesis Instruction Manual
However, after a while physical strength will start not being quite good enough, especially versus nastiness such as a Monster from the Id (insert diabolical laugh.)
As this implies, Monsters from the Id are TOUGH - they do about 20 HP per attack and are super evasive. Thankfully, there are only seven in the game, and this is the only one encountered outside the final area. As a side note, they have the highest experience-point award of any monster, at 500 - 388 more than the second-highest. So it may be hard to kill them physically, but it's worth it.

Just past the Monster from the Id is a pair of Boots Made for Walking and a copy of Megadeath - possibly the best psionic in the game. Its 35 attack power may not look like much, but keep in mind that it's a timed attack psionic, so it does 35 damage per turn for its duration. Its only real flaws are its 190-PP cost, which most players won't meet without either completing Vex Chamber V or a lot of grinding, and the fact that it's a timed attack psionic, and so doesn't grant experience. But then, if you have enough PP to cast it, you probably don't need psionic experience.

North of both this secret passage and the eastern exits from the previous one is a maze filled with worms, as well as a Pick Axe and some Lanterns.

In the northeast part of the maze is another secret passage.

Like the first one we found, it's pretty mazelike.

Most of the paths are dead ends or just have exits from the maze, but this one has an exit and a copy of the psionic Vicious Circle, which works like Gas Annulus, but with fire instead of poison gas. However, the exit just leads to a little north of the non-hidden maze, so I'll take the eastern exit and see where it goes.

It turns out that it goes to a tunnel full of worms. I haven't explored the northern part of the sewers, so after clearing out the worms, I go that way.

There isn't much besides more worms in the northeast corner...

...but a bit to the west is another secret passage, containing a Lantern, a Healing Herb, and another secret passage. Passageception!

Or not. It turns out it just leads back to the middle area. At least the passage itself is a safe place to rest, and I don't need to worry about my light source going out or my Glow psionics wearing off, thanks to the Glowing Rock.

I do need to worry about worms converging around the exit from the passage while I sleep, though. Or not, seeing as they're easy to kill and worth 90 experience each. I've already leveled up my Hand to Hand, Long Bladed, Pole Arms, and Short Bladed disciplines in this dungeon alone, and am currently working on Melee Weapons.

There's nothing in the northwest corner, but at least I've mapped out the north side of the sewers.

Last edited by Kahran042; 02-01-2019 at 02:46 PM. Reason: Fixing broken tags.
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Old 01-31-2019, 12:40 PM
Kahran042 Kahran042 is offline
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Default Continued from previous post.

That being done, I can check out the south side. Unlike the north side, it seems to be made more of corridors than rooms.

Most of these alcoves are empty...

...but the second-to-last one on the south has a secret passage.

At the end of said passage is a Formidable Meat Cleaver. It has decent stats, but I'd still rather use the Dagger of Doom or Niacian Life Ender for Melee Weapon purposes.

With the north and south explored, it's time to explore the center, starting with this tunnel just west of the worm maze.

It doubles back to this area, containing a Two Handed Sword, a Spleen Slicer, a Pick Axe, and a Dagger.

The only thing of interest in the maze proper is the ladder leading into Ronan's tower. We'll be back here after exploring the rest of the sewers.

East of the maze is another secret passage. Including the entrance area, this makes a total of seven.

It leads to what appears to be the home of a crazy sewer hermit. Let's wait for him to wake up and see what he has to say. Hopefully he's not in the market for a royal rat groomer...

name: "Well, last time I saw anyone people were already calling me Geezer. That shows you old I am, eh? But, no, I can't seem to remember my real name. Ah, who cares."
job: "I was a spiral architect. Now I'm nothing, pretty much."
flog: "Yeah, I've lived in Flog all my life. I was just a little kid before everything changed. You didn't think it was always like that, did you? Used to be no monsters out there on the island, and no Minions or anything like them neither. Used to be people were generally happy; or content maybe perhaps would be a better word. Used to be Ronan was a good guy. The society was advanced enough to build these amazing sewers, right? But that was long long ago. Used to be old folks didn't have to live in sewers, neither. Used to be."
ronan: "You won't believe me - no one ever does - but Ronan saved Flog. He was a strong but kind ruler - he was known as the Friend back then - but something happened. The monsters came to the island, right, and it looked like we were all done for, but then Ronan produced these creatures - Minions we would later call them - that obeyed him and fought off the monsters. Flog was fortified - by the Minions, who became our protectors - so the monsters couldn't get in. But then, I always thought the power and success went to his head, and he became the Fiend he is today."
minion: "Where did the Minions come from, anyway, maybe you're wondering. How does Ronan pull them out of thin air and why do they only obey him? Search me, though, for me, the coincidence of the monsters and the minions appearing at the same time is just too much of a coincidence to pass by, you know? And, between the lot of 'em, they made Ronan a monster, I'll bet."
worm: "You've seen them, right? They just love the sewage, I tell you. I live off of the sewage too, I'm embarrassed to admit. I mean, a lot of edible stuff is thrown out of Ronan's place, which is the only place that empties into the sewer anymore. They're not very careful, those Minions. But the worms, they just thrive in it. They're strange all right. I've still got enough vim and vigor to fight em off, as necessary... but just barely. But what choice do I have? To survive, I've got to hide down here. Got to."
monster: "We used to call it M-Day, for Monster-Day, as a kinda memorial to the day the monsters came. Today? Well, last time I was up topside, which was a while ago, I tell you, nobody remembered. No sense of history around here. I mean, I barely remember it myself, the past before the monsters. Which is strange, you know, because I used to have such a crystal clear image of it. Old age, I guess. But nobody knows anymore... was there a life before the monsters, or what? Nobody knows. I get confused myself, just thinking about it."
sewer: "The sewers were built in my youth, back when Ronan, well... He was somebody to look up to and all. Flogian society flourished so much under him that it got real advanced, like these sewers. I mean, that's pretty advanced, we were all amazed. Took years and years to build, no doubt. But then the monsters came, something happened to Ronan, and everything went to hell. I mean, the sewers, they fell into disrepair, and were blocked up. And now they provide a hiding spot for me - I couldn't survive a real work day up there, and the Minions make no exceptions, you know."

His account of Ronan being known as "The Friend" before the monsters does match up with the Red Notes we found way back in Satch. In addition, the lack of history matches with what Russell had to say back in Wain. Any thoughts on this are very welcome.

At any rate, that's the last area of the sewers, so let's head back to the ladder and get out of here. Next time, we tackle Ronan's tower.

Last edited by Kahran042; 01-31-2019 at 03:08 PM. Reason: Adding a reference.
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Old 01-31-2019, 02:06 PM
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Lucas Lucas is offline
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I love how he keeps repeating that Frog had sewers as the greatest sign of its advanced society.
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Old 01-31-2019, 04:49 PM
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Mightyblue Mightyblue is offline
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Sewers are a huge deal, civilization wise?
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Old 02-01-2019, 05:54 AM
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Lucas Lucas is offline
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They're great for hygiene, flood resistance, and keeping waste out of the public eye, yes. How often are you going to bring up your city's great sewer system in a casual conversation with someone you just met, though?

I guess it would be different if you live in them...
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Old 02-03-2019, 05:19 PM
Kahran042 Kahran042 is offline
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Default Into the Unfathomed Tower

Last time, Katrielle navigated the sewers of Flog and entered Ronan's tower. Today, we scale it to confront the Fiend.

You may have noticed that there's no down ladder in this room, despite it being accessed by ladder. However, it's still possible to return by dropping into that pit. It does 5 damage, but it's still safer than every other pit in the game. However, we aren't going to turn back now.

That lever looks tempting, but it's a trap.

If you pull it, the south wall moves north by one tile, cutting off the exit door in the process. Every time you pull it, the wall moves north again. There's no way to move it back to its original position, and if it hits you, you're dead.

So it's a good thing we didn't do that, and instead just headed out through the south door.

As you may have guessed, there are a lot of Ronan Minions in the tower. They're like humans in another way besides their death scream - they can open doors, so there's no safe place to rest in here. At least they're easy to kill.

This is where Mino's back entrance to the tower leads. As you can see, there's nothing special here, just a few useless melee weapons. Yet another reason that the sewers are the superior path.

Just south and east of the back entrance is a room with more useless weapons, which is connected to the stockyards in Flog.

South of that is a small, maze-like room containing a single Minion and two traps, which deal approximately 30 damage. Trap Spotting might seem useful here, but as you can see, they're pretty easy to avoid, and there's no reason to enter this room anyway.

The southeast corner of the tower contains these three small rooms. However, they're all locked, and only seem to exist as places for Minions to spawn from.

Just west of that is the main entrance to the tower, also locked and leading to a huge swarm of Minions.

With the first floor as explored as I can explore an area composed almost entirely of locked doors and Ronan Minions, it's time to head up these ladders.

The second floor looks a lot like the first - stone walls, cobblestone floors, and plenty of Minions to fight.

The fact that Minions can open doors has one advantage - they can open locked doors, and if you kill one in a doorway, it will stay open as long as it isn't one of the "close immediately" doors. Granted, there isn't much in any of these rooms, but it's good to know.

Unlike the first floor, there are unlocked doors on the second floor. Unfortunately, this one just leads to two more locked ones. There's another unlocked door north of it, which leads to two other locked doors, presumably the other sides of the rooms behind this door.

These ladders lead to the third and final floor of the tower, but I want to finish exploring this floor before moving on.

South of the ladders is a pair of unlocked doors leading to a dining room. The doors to the north are locked...

...but the ones to the south lead back into the main hallway of the second floor, and yet another locked door.

The rest of the southern and eastern areas just have more locked doors, but the western side has an extra down ladder.

It leads into a prison guarded by a single Minion. With one exception, all of the prisoners are either unable to talk or too far from the cell door to reach. The one exception is below.

yes or no: "No, you don't. Nobody.... no-no-nobody does, nobody does."

That being said, the Minion is the only hostile monster to spawn here, and none of the other Minions on the first floor can access this room, so it's a safe place to rest.

Back on the second floor, I check out the room north of the main ladders and find a Red Key, a Blue Key, and a Green Key, which look silver despite their names. But then, all the keys are like that. With these keys in hand, I have access to the locked doors that mocked me before!

The two locked doors behind the west door lead to storage rooms. One contains a total of 820 GP in assorted gems, and the other contains a Mace of Malice, a Spleen Slicer, and a War Axe. None are especially useful - there aren't any shops after this point, and we already have weapons equal to or better than the ones in the trunks.

The northwestern door leads to a pit that drops Katrielle back to the first floor at a cost of 10 HP. It might be useful if I want to leave, but let's finish exploring the tower first.
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Old 02-03-2019, 05:20 PM
Kahran042 Kahran042 is offline
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Default Continued from previous post.

As expected, the doors north of the dining room lead to the kitchen and pantry, which contain absolutely nothing useful.

The door south and across the hall isn't much more interesting. There was a single Minion, but I've already killed him.

The keys allow me to open the prison cells, but the prisoners don't seem to have any desire to escape.

However, I can now talk to this one.

He doesn't directly respond to keywords, but instead says the following, in this order:

"A new comer?"
"Yes: I suppose I died this morning. I confessed; I had extreme unction; I was in bed with my family about me and my eyes fixed on the cross. Then it grew dark; and when the light came back it was this light by which I can see nothing. I have wandered for hours in this horrible loneliness."
"Ah! you have not yet lost the sense of time. One soon does, in eternity."
"Where are we?"
"In Hell."
"Hell! I in Hell! How dare you?"
"Why not, Senora?"
"You do not know to whom you are speaking. I am a lady, and a faithful daughter of the church."
"I do not doubt it."
"But how then can I be in Hell? Purgatory, perhaps: I have not been perfect: who has? But Hell! oh, you are lying."
"Hell, Senora, I assure you; Hell at its best: that is, its most solitary - though perhaps you would prefer company."
"But I have sincerely repented; I have confessed -"
"How much?"
"More sins than I really committed. I loved confession."
"Ah, that is perhaps as bad as confessing too little. At all events, Senora, whether by oversight or intention, you are certainly damned, like myself; and there is nothing for it now but to make the best of it."
"Oh, dear, um, excuse me, I'm so dreadfully sorry. I... lost my place. I'll have to start again."

And then he starts over. These quotes are apparently from George Bernard Shaw's play Man and Superman, whose title is referenced in the unreadable in-game book Mensch and Supermensch. There's nothing else to do here, so let's try opening the rest of the locked doors on the first floor.

The door north of the ladders on this floor leads to an armory, but nothing in it is really worth taking.

The three rooms in the southeast of the first floor are, indeed, empty. There aren't even any Minions in there, but that could be because Katrielle slaughtered them all. That's everything on this floor mapped out, with the exception of the still-locked front door, so let's head up to the third floor.

Just like on the first two floors, Katrielle is almost immediately greeted by Minions, but they're no match for her.

So far, this floor is pretty much just one long hall guarded by Minions.

Eventually, it ends at another prison and a passage to the north.

Said passage leads to a maze of doors. It may not seem like much...

...but most of them are locked, and going the wrong way will usually lead to lethal traps. Maybe someone in the prison can help?

The only one who's wiling to talk is this lady.

Remember that name? She's the one who Thom asked Katrielle to rescue. She won't say anything other than this until you open her cell. When you do, here's what she has to say.

Since her boyfriend is the leader of the Pax Flog, I will say...yes.

If you agree to kill Ronan, Robyn will lead you through the door maze. Be careful not to lose track of her, or you'll have to navigate it by trial and error.

Shortly after completing said maze, Robyn will stop moving. If you talk to her now...

With these words, she dies, leaving behind a note.

Originally Posted by Very Worn Note
Though it may be difficult, I insist to you fellow revolutionary, that you should not stray from the path! Those extra doors can be tempting, but what lies behind them is a good deal less savory. There may be other ways, but why chance it? E-E-E-N, W-N-N-W, N-N-E-N, E-S-E-E, E-S-S-W, S-E-E-F!
These are directions through the door maze, starting from the entrance at the prison. Why would they give them this way? I'll explain that in an upcoming bonus update, but for now, let's continue onward, towards the Fiend's chambers.

That is a LOT of Minions. We must be getting close...

Fortunately, Minions aren't any more threatening even in a big group. With them gone, we can finally confront Ronan.

When you approach him, he asks you to hear him out. Like the prisoner who recites from Man and Superman, he doesn't actually respond to keywords, and instead tells his story in pieces. It goes as follows:

"I doubt that you have heard that I am the person who saved Flog from certain destruction when the monsters first came to Agressat, because that bit of history has been forgotten, since it does not fit the world-view of any of the people now living in Flog. Before the invasion I was known as Ronan, Your Friend. I was leader of Flog, a strong but - I think - kind ruler. We had elevated ourselves to the highest level of a civilization Agressat had ever seen - certainly higher than Exin or Satch. I was, I suppose, a bit proud of our achievements, especially the elaborate sewer system."
"But when the monster invasion came, those horrific red-winged fiends sweeping down from every corner, none of us were prepared. Where did they come from? Why were they so much stronger than us? How could we possibly survive? But I... was on an inside track of sorts. You see, this man... creature... came to me. Over eight feet tall, gaunt, yet very muscular, dressed in black and red leather with the most terribly scarred face I had ever seen, he came to me in what was then my one-story headquarters. He called himself N... N... Nemesis."
"He told me we had no chance against the monsters - he was right. Unless, he said, he helped me. He could grant me the ability to summon these blue creatures - the minions - at will, through a special mirror he would provide. With these virtually tireless, incredibly strong creatures, I could defend my dear Flog against the monsters, and keep them out for good, allowing my citizens to go on with their lives, inside the walls of a strengthened Flog."
"How could I refuse? Would you? In such a time of trouble, with people being slaughtered left and right, would you have considered the possible consequences? Would you remember what your mother had long ago told you, that nothing comes for free? Well, I didn't think about it, and I have regretted that decision ever since. I was granted the ability, as N. had promised, to summon these dumb blue creatures, who would then follow my every bidding. And so I did, and so they beat off the attack of the monsters, and Flog was preserved, due to them and due to me."
"But it was not easy. Many minions were required, and even once the monsters had been beaten back outside the city walls, those walls were not strong enough to hold them, so the minions had to fortify those walls. Yes, I found out the minions could do more than fight, they could perform simple tasks of manual labor quite well. I did not have any time to consult the citizens, and no doubt they didn't even realize the blue creatures were fighting on their side. To a common citizen, all the monsters were just as frightening, just as powerful, just as destructive."
"I also found that every time a minion was brought through the portal it was an intense drain on myself. I slowly developed a nearly insatiable appetite: I had to have food, lots and lots of food, food enough for 100 men. I spent most of my time eating, the rest giving directives to the minions. But how was I to get this food I needed so much of? With the monsters beating at our door, I didn't have the time to consult the people, as had been my frequent practice up until the invasion. I needed lots of food, and I needed it immediately, or I would die, and Flog would die with me."
"So I had the minions bring me the food I needed. They were not intelligent enough to farm and raise the food themselves, but they were smart enough to take it from the people who had grown it, and to force the people to grow more. And that was how the... the horror that Flog has become started. Eventually the town became fortified to such an extent that the monsters had little chance of getting in, especially with the number of guards I posted at the entrance. But still, I was hungry. More hungry than you can imagine: even when I didn't bring new minions through the portal, I was still painfully hungry."
"So, the people had to grow more food, for without food I would die, and without the Minions to protect Flog, it would surely fall, eventually, to the monsters outside. So, with the policies I set, the enforced long hours, the everyone-must-work edict, I always saw them - I still do, really - as being for the good of the town, as being necessary. It was the curse of this power I was given, the power which saved Flog from the monsters, that caused Flog to fall from its previous glory to the mire of hopelessness the people now rest in."
"The Minions came with some fore-knowledge, it would seem: that those who did not follow my orders were to be killed. I did not realize this immediately, and it was one of the most painful realizations I had that citizens who rebelled were executed: I assure you, I knew nothing of this, initially. Often, the Minions become confused, it seems, and execute someone at random. At first I lived an illusion, thinking that the people were happily following out my orders, knowing it was for the good of Flog. It wasn't until later that I realized that was far from the truth."
"It seems there is no way to get the Minions to stop their deadly enforcement of my policies... it is what is necessary for the preservation of Flog, I often reasoned. I don't know if I disagree to this day... But still, often I wonder, perhaps Flog would have been better off struggling on its own to survive, without this other-worldly intervention... I have not heard from N. since, but I do know that he lives on an island to the north-east of Agressat - and that the mirror he gave me is two-way. One can step through it and reach his island."
"The mirror is kept around the corner in my inner sanctum, which you have now reached. I hate to shirk the blame for all that I have done to Flog. But it is N. There is something about him, something profoundly, thoroughly evil. I remember distinctly how he cackled when I agreed to his offer - I now understand that his laugh was knowing: he realized what would happen, and he loved it! I was just his puppet. Just his puppet. He set the wheels in motion, and watched on in glee from his distant island."
"So now I don't know how your conscience rests with you, if you still wish to follow through with your mission to slay me. Know this, though, I will not, cannot change my ways. It is too late for me to go back. I cannot be Ronan, Your Friend any more. I am just Ronan the Fiend, now and forever: without my death, life will continue on in Flog as it has. You can kill me, I have given up fighting. But this tower falls with me, and perhaps Flog, without the support of the Minions, will fall, eventually. Or, perhaps not."
"You can leave me to live on, take the mirror and exit to N's island, and pursue his demise. Though, right now, I would almost welcome death. I used to understand myself, but now I don't think I can. Come on then, now, if you must, bludgeon me with your sword, zap me with your mental powers. Do what you must. Free me from this curse... Kill me, you fool, kill me!"

So... that's Ronan's story. It's also the first time that Nemesis has been mentioned by name, if I'm not mistaken. That being said, we have two ways to get to Nemesis' island. Should we use the mirror that Ronan mentioned, or one of our N Staves? And what to do with Ronan? Should we kill or spare him?
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Old 02-03-2019, 05:21 PM
Kahran042 Kahran042 is offline
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Default Bonus Update 5: Freeing Robyn

As I mentioned in the previous update, the Very Worn Note isn't very useful from the side of the door maze where you acquire it. But there is another possibility. What if you told Robyn that you wouldn't slay Ronan?

If you agree to this request...

Now it's pretty much just another escort mission, made much easier by the fact that all the Minions in the main corridor have already been killed.

However, on the second floor, Robyn will suddenly stop moving. If you talk to her here...

And then, just like in the main LP, she dies and leaves behind the Very Worn Note, which is actually useful now, since Robyn won't be able to lead us through the door maze herself. We may not have been able to save her, but we can at least head back to Flog and let Thom know, by telling him "apple".

Unfortunately, that wasn't enough to unite the factions against the Judean People's Front Ronan, but at least it was something, I guess.
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Old 02-04-2019, 08:54 AM
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Lucas Lucas is offline
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Maybe it's just that I'm at work with the flu right now, but I say we spare Ronan to make everyone as miserable as possible.

I'm assuming both the mirror and N staves are traps.
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Old 02-04-2019, 01:42 PM
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Sensenic Sensenic is offline
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I would say to spare him at least until N is defeated and see if that solves the monster crisis? Then the minions would not be necessary (or maybe even die out?) and the people could decide what to do with Ronan.
I don't even remember about the staves so I won't vote on that one.
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Old 02-04-2019, 03:26 PM
Kahran042 Kahran042 is offline
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Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
I'm assuming both the mirror and N staves are traps.
Not traps, exactly, but they are both one-way trips.
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Old 02-06-2019, 03:10 PM
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Mogri Mogri is offline
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I want to see you jump to the final boss, even if it's just a temporary "what if" sort of thing.
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Old 02-06-2019, 03:24 PM
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N staff, but show the differences with the mirror.

And spare Ronan.
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Old 02-08-2019, 09:50 AM
Kahran042 Kahran042 is offline
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Default Trials and Tribulations

It looks like the vote is unanimous for sparing Ronan and using the N Staff to head to Nemesis' lair, so let's do that. However, first things first. We may not be using Ronan's mirror, but that doesn't mean we can't rob his inner sanctum!

The tables contain a Trident of Tribble and a Granite Key, which unlocks the small room to the east.

Unfortunately, all it contains is a trap, which deals approximately 20 damage, and a Wooden Lizard. Now that I've taken everything of value in Ronan's tower, I'm going to sleep off my wounds and then use the N Staff.

So this is Nemesis' castle. That note on the table looks important, but...

...I've finally hit my item cap. So it looks like I'll have to clear some useless junk out of my inventory.

Unfortunately, there can only be a certain number of items on the ground at once. At least I can take the note now.

Originally Posted by Nemesis Note
First and foremost, I must offer you my congratulations. When I designed those Vex Chambers, I never did imagine that you might make it to even the third, let alone the fifth or sixth. I designed them as an intellectual exercise for myself: your passing through them was quite irrelevant. It is not easily that I dole out praise, so you should be appreciative of what it means to get a compliment from me. Not only did you survive the trials of life on the islands of the Archipelago facing all manner of monster, but you made it all the way to the island I call Rochelle, something no other native or visitor to the Archipelago has ever done. So now, you are faced with a choice. The door to the east opens to a dock, tied to which there is a boat, a sound vessel which will return you to your homeland. I understand that you must feel a desperate sense of emptiness having not seen your native country for so very long. So I urge you, take the boat with my blessing.
On the other hand, having been a passive observer to your progress, I cannot help but think that this may prove unsatisfactory to you, that you may in fact still remember the staff that you brought to this island and which you may want back. Being a fair man of honor, I offer you the door to the north, behind which lay five more trials - the first physical, the middle three mental, and the final physical - which will eventually lead you to myself. These I have determined as necessary to conclude whether or not you are actually worthy for an audience with myself. But these are no child's play Vex Chambers, let me assure you. There are no more hints, and most importantly there are no more escape paths: each must be solved in order and failure at any means certain death. So, as always, the choice is yours, but I must say you would be a fool not to take the boat. But at this point, I am beginning to wonder just how much of a fool you really are. - Nemesis
It should be obvious what we'll be doing here.

This is the first trial - a maze filled with Ephemeral Ones. You may recall that we've encountered one before, and that I said that there would be a better opportunity to screenshot them. This is that opportunity. Like before, they're pretty weak, but evasive.

Inside the maze, they're a lot harder to spot. There are actually two in this image. Can you spot them?

The goal is this door in the northeast corner, but it's locked until you take out all of the Ephemeral Ones.

On doing so, it opens and you can head up the ladder to the next trial.

Said trial is a maze of these arrow tiles. As you can probably guess, stepping on them will immediately send you in that direction, and you have to get all the way across the room without landing in the fires. This puzzle seems like it could easily be nerfed with the Extinguish spell, but if we try it...

...that happens. So we'll have to do this the honest way.

First, step on any of the blue arrows that don't lead straight into the flames to enter the maze proper.

Then step on this red arrow...

...and from there, go south twice, west twice, south, east, south, east, north thrice, east twice, south thrice, west, south, west, south twice, west, south, west twice, north, west, south twice, east twice, and you're out!

The third trial involves pushing seven colored blocks onto seven X tiles.

First, you have to push the orange block all the way to the east.

Then push the violet block one space south.

The indigo block looks troublesome, but all you have to do is...

...push it into the pathway, then go around it and push it north and east.

Now for the yellow block. For this one, you have to move it one space south, then push it as the arrows indicate. Two down, five to go!

After all that complex maneuvering with the indigo and yellow blocks, the violet one is nice and easy - just push it to the right.

The red block is also pretty simple.

As are the green and blue ones. The trick here is not to be fooled by the obvious switch due south of the green block, or by the ease of getting the blue block to its designated switch.

And that just leaves indigo, which shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

Last edited by Kahran042; 02-08-2019 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 02-08-2019, 09:53 AM
Kahran042 Kahran042 is offline
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Default Continued from previous post.

With all seven blocks in place, the door leading to the next floor and the next trial is open.

This is probably the hardest of the trials. Remember Vex Chamber II? This is the same basic concept, but this time the blocks have different, stranger shapes and the walls are closing in, so there's a time limit. The goal is to get them arranged in the northern alcove like this:


Based on this, it would probably be a good idea to get the indigo piece into place first, followed by the yellow and green ones.

Unfortunately, the yellow one is blocked by the red one, so I'll have to move that first. Fortunately, that's easy enough, and the yellow block is just one push west of the column where it should be.

And with yellow in place, it takes just a bit of finagling with blue and red to get green in place, too.

Said finagling also made the red piece easier to place, but I had to quickly get blue and orange out of the path of the moving walls.

Conviently, it also put orange in the right column, enabling me to place it that much easier.

And from there, violet and blue are child's play.

Like the first one, the last trial involves combat, this time against Rolling Zapmongers and Oozasauri. There's also supposed to be a Monster from the Id, but I couldn't get it to appear for some reason. However, there is a twist here. See those machines in the corners? They'll keep spawning monsters forever, so what you want to do... head to this corner and wait. The monsters will only come down here relucantly at best, and they won't be able to gang up on you.

Eventually, the wall will open up, and you can escape. This lady saved Katrielle's life, so she's probably an ally.

By the way, if you still have the tuning fork from Morage, you can use it to open the wall yourself. This way just works better storywise. Speaking of the story, like Ronan and the madman in his prison, she'll tell her story regardless of keywords. It goes as follows:

"I must tell you, you... you are my final hope. My name is Rian, and I have been wandering the islands of the Archipelago looking for the reason behind what has gone on here, and I have finally found it here, in the form of Nemesis. But now, I have been wounded, and now... what happens is entirely up to you. You must be the one... I know Nemesis, through all he has done, must seem to be powerful as a God, yet he is far from omniscient, and the right person might be able to end his wretched life."
"Before I tell you anything, answer your questions, I must give you this... I knew, somehow, that I wasn't going to be the one... to be the force that finally ended Nemesis' tyranny, his misuse of good people in the name of... of what? So, I wrote down what I know in these pages... I rewrote much of my scattershot diary into a more understandable form; my diary was falling apart and I kept losing the pages. So it will help you understand, but what happens is up to you."

Yes, this is the same Rian from all those diary entries scattered throughout the Archipelago. Now we can talk to her normally, so here's what she has to say.

name: "I have said it... my name is Rian."
job: "At a time like this, as I lie here dying before you, you ask me what my job is? Ha ha ha. I'm sorry, but if I were not to laugh, it would be too painful to think of, my previous life seems so far gone. I... came here form a land to the south. The land was overcome by a famine, and a... spiritual friend assured me that our land was being drained by a land to the north. So I went north, to uncharted waters, and landed here on this Archipelago, to discover just what was draining us. It was, of course, Nemesis, though I still do not think he does it knowingly. I explain it all... in the book."
island: "It would be too easy to show Nemesis as some raging insane evil scientist, toying with the Archipelago as his mood strikes him. But that would be... unfair. I think he honestly believes that what he has done to the island chain was at least justified, if not totally, unquestionably right. 'For by my experiments' I have often heard him ranting to himself, 'we can solve all the problems of the world, and that is worth any cost.' It is almost... that he understands that something is amiss in his actions, and he must keep justifying them to himself."
nemesis: "It is so hard to explain Nemesis.. one must really hear him talk to understand the uniquely twisted way he treats the world. It's not that he sees it as his own to play with, but rather as an object which must be studied, at all costs, by whoever can manage it, by whoever has the power and the intelligence to... Well, I explain it well in the book I have given you, and... I am failing... I do not know how much longer I can hold on."
red: "Red is...the person who wounded me. He is Nemesis' sole henchman, the person to whom Nemesis assigns the work he is too busy to do himself: N. granted him some small fraction of his power to help him in his tasks. As I hid about here in this castle, I heard Red rant about all of his repulsive... accomplishments. And so I decided to kill Red first, then go after Nemesis... A stupid, impulsive plan: I didn't stand a chance against Red, and he left me as I am now; he didn't kill me because he knew this way I would suffer more. But by reaching you, I have beat him. I have beat him."
experiment: "For science, that is what Nemesis says, and I think it is what he believes too. But it is... twisted. In his mind, in the way he uses it... contorted to his own ends. The people of the Archipelago are real to him, but they are also just parts of his great experiment, in how far the people will go if stimulated the right way... Read the book, I have had much time in here to write it out as clearly as I could... manage."
castle: "This castle - Nemesis calls it Castle Rochelle after the island it sits on - consists of six floors, including a sub-level. Nemesis lives here alone, with his henchman Red... It is those two who I have been avoiding all the time I have been hiding in this castle, and it was the latter who found me and... wounded me. I have spent much time exploring the castle, and all is explained in the book..."
book: "I have written the book - the book to which I keep referring and all but begging you to read - as I was here, hiding in this castle. Before I made it to Rochelle, I spent a large portion of time exploring the Archipelago, and I kept a diary. So now, I have compiled all the information I think necessary to help you succeed in the task at which I have failed, in dethroning, depowering, or simply killing Nemesis. So now, take it, use it... Now, as I lay dying, you are my last hope, for I hope that knowledge will bring you power."

And, although nothing she says cues it AFAIK...

staff: "I do not know where Nemesis got that staff from, but from what I overheard Red and he talking about, it seems that Nemesis might have lost his control over the Archipelago had it not been for the staff. And I think if the staff were taken away from him - it is kept safe in a the sub-level of this castle - that might be the best solution possible... you must read the book. It will explain all."

After you finish talking to Rian, she drops her book, takes a few steps south, and dies, leaving behind some items - a Lantern, a Tuning Fork, and the Operatic Sword, the best long-bladed weapon in the game. Unfortunately, I have too much stuff, so I'll have to drop some items to take it, but it's definitely worth it. As for the book...

Originally Posted by Rian's Book
My name is Rian, and I write this hoping to consolidate my knowledge about this mysterious Archipelago into one work which can be passed on. The mere fact that you are reading this means that this part of my work has succeed, that all I know has not been lost, even if I am already dead. I first came to the Archipelago because I was searching for answers to the famine that had come over my own land, a continent to the south of the Archipelago known as Russitana. I was not the leader of me people precisely, but I was something of a leader of exploration. When Russitana first had a dry season, some years ago, many thought nothing of it: just one year of bad luck for our crops. But then, the next year was the same, and the next. Not only was the environment changed such that nothing would grow, but the soil became infertile. Even under carefully monitored and nurtured conditions, the soil could bear no plants. My people began to starve, first the poor who could not afford the food that went up in price, but then slowly the others... But I stray from the topic at hand: suffice it to say that there was a horrible, unnatural plague upon my land.
An extremely spiritual friend of mine told me that she felt the plague came from the north, in the unexplored waters North of Russitana. At first I did not believe her impulses, but then as our land grew desperate I knew I must try something. So I set out on a voyage to explore the uncharted Northern waters: I don't know what I expected to find, it was more out of want of anything else to try that I set out. As I came in range of what I would later learn to be the Archipelago, I encountered some of the strangest, seemingly-unnatural storms I have ever seen: my vessel stayed afloat only barely, and I made it to the land only by sheer luck. And so that is how, and why, I came here.
I could never have imagined what I found, though... The main island chain of six islands - Un, Culn, Emas, McTeague, Morage, Agressat - with each having something distinctly askew with it, all unknowingly under the influence of the primary inhabitant of the seventh, smaller island, the island called Rochelle. But he, who calls himself Nemesis, was not torturing them on purpose, I was to find out during my eight day (at this writing) clandestine stay in the Castle Rochelle. He pushed them - using his immense power - he pushed the people of each island, set up a situation and then let the people follow through as they will. On one, a previously peaceful set of priests become sacrifice-demanding demagogues. On another, an until-then friendly pair of towns begin to loathe each other for no apparent reason. On a third, a despot is created because Nemesis gave him the power to be one, and the people who suffer under his reign cannot help but hate each other while they try to decide whether or not to assassinate the Fiend. Each seems like a plausible system by itself, but they were so nicely lined up, one problem per island, in retrospect I am surprised I did not notice something seriously amiss earlier.
From what I have concluded based on talking with various people on the Archipelago, as well as from overheard conversations between Nemesis and his lackey Red, I have come to figure out the following history of this Archipelago. Previous to approximately one hundred years ago, these islands were not uncharted, in fact they existed as a vibrant community, maintaining contact with the rest of the world. But then, approximately 100 years ago, perhaps more, Nemesis came to exist here, to see the island chain as a perfect spot for his experiments in the nature of man. One thing is certain, exactly one hundred years ago vicious, bizarre monsters, a different type on each island, came to inhabit the Archipelago, radically changing the way life was lived on the islands. Nemesis did not create these creatures directly: rather, they are a byproduct of his use of his abilities - he sometimes calls the energy he uses 'the power.' Nemesis uses his abilities to nudge the people of the islands into actions they would not otherwise have done. This must require a colossal amount of effort, and a side-effect of the use of this strong 'power' is the mindless, destructive monsters which literally rise up out of the ground.
It is interesting to note, that as part of his experiment, Nemesis slowly forced all of the people on the Archipelago to remember only the existence of the island they are on, as if it were their whole world. Previous to his arrival 100 years or more ago, the Archipelago maintained trade relations with the rest of the world, as well as within the island chain. But, to make his experiment 'scientifically valid' as he called it, Nemesis felt the need to separate out into six totally separate groups the people of the Archipelago. I keep saying that Nemesis may have been here more than 100 years: it was a century ago that the monsters first came, and it seems to make sense that the monster would only have come after Nemesis had been here some time, since they are a side effect of Nemesis' powers of influence.
But the monsters are not the only side effect of Nemesis' power. I discovered that the famine which beset my land was a direct result of Nemesis' power. I do not begin to understand just what energy force he has managed to tap, but he seems to draw energy out of the closest land-masses to the Archipelago, literally draining the land of its life. I suspect that not only has Nemesis caused famine in my land of Russitana, but also from the western land of Thrall and the eastern land Kumsek as well. This is just another reason why, at all costs, Nemesis must be stopped.
It would seem that Nemesis has powers not unlike those of a God, but he is far from omniscient. For instance, I was able to sneak about this castle Rochelle without his detecting me for a week now. Though Nemesis has an uncanny ability to set up situations around the Archipelago and to influence, to some extent, the way people think and feel, he cannot read everyone's mind: he does not see all that goes on. This is why Nemesis needs his assistant Red to go about the island doing his 'dirty work' for him.
Red, it seems, was picked out of the people on one of the islands around the time when Nemesis first arrived here. Nemesis no doubt offered Red power and prolonged life, an offer Red could not refuse. Whereas Nemesis is unflaggingly dedicated to his own scientific labors - or what he thinks are his scientific labors - Red is entirely devoted to his own self-advancement. Nemesis sends Red about the islands performing monitoring tasks, and making sure that the people are receiving the proper stimuli. The tunnels which connect the Archipelago were all created by Red, using the psionic powers that Nemesis granted him. Several strange 'control caves', caves which directly influence the passing of events on the islands, were created by Nemesis for use by Red. The foremost power Nemesis granted Red, though, is the use of various psionics, which Red carries about on sheets of rolled-up paper, some of which I have found lying about the island. I find it hard to believe that Nemesis could have picked a more morally-corrupt, incompetent, and repulsive lackey as Red, though I do not know if N. did this on purpose.
It is interesting to note, here, that Nemesis seems to be dissatisfied with the pomposity and incompetence of Red, and is seeking a replacement. In fact, it would seem that he has converted the entire east half of Castle Rochelle into some sort of test for this person, to see if they are 'truly worthy' of replacing Red. In one conversation, I overheard the following, as Nemesis complained to Red about his incompetence: 'I will have you know, fool, that you are no longer the only one with psionics on this island-chain. I have granted them to another, one who is, perhaps, on their way here right now, to kill you and take your place. For I have had just about enough of your insufferable ways.' Perhaps this replacement, perhaps he or she is the one who will see Nemesis for what he is and have the power to do something about it.
So, Nemesis is not omniscient, and therefore he must be stopped. But how? This Castle Rochelle consists of six levels. The first is home to Red's personal lair; the second contains a 'beastiary' in which Nemesis has collected one of each of the monsters found on the Archipelago; the third contains various tools Nemesis uses to create various effects on the different islands; the fourth houses Nemesis' private laboratories, and I have not made it up to the fifth, though it seems to make sense that this would be Nemesis' private lair. In addition to this, I have never made it to the sub-level, since I believe this is accessible only through a south-west corner access-shaft, which leads directly from the fifth level to the sub-level. It is here that Nemesis keeps an item he refers to only as 'the staff,' his most carefully guarded possession.
I do not know much about this staff, but I do understand that it has become vital to Nemesis' continued power. From conversations between Red and Nemesis that I have overheard, it seems that until recently, Nemesis' power was waning: it was doubtful if he would be able to continue his experimenting. But then, somehow, Nemesis came into possession of this staff, which he keeps secured in the sub-level, and it is through the possession of this that Nemesis' continued power is assured. In one of the many arguments between Red and Nemesis, the former threatened to go to the sub-level and take the staff for his own devices. But N. only laughed, saying that he could surely not survive such a task, that no man could, that in fact a person might be able to take the staff from it's current 'configuration' and greatly weaken N., but that the performing of that action would surely mean their own death.
So how is it that Nemesis can be defeated, so that the Archipelago can be free again as well as the famine that has come to the neighboring lands be lifted? I must stress that I think it necessary to eliminate Red first: for, were one to somehow slay Nemesis, that power void would be one Red would quickly try to fill, and Red would no doubt abuse that power in a way Nemesis never has. So, with Red somehow out-of-the-picture, it leaves only the slaying of Nemesis: it seems that he is of flesh and blood, and that if one was able to manage to attack him, one could do quite a serious amount of damage to his person. On the other hand, it seems that if one were to liberate the staff from the basement at this point, in its current 'configuration' as N. calls it, it would strip Nemesis of all his power, and perhaps free the people of the Archipelago from their current mental enslavement. Unfortunately, I refuse to be a martyr, for it seems that truly the only way to get at the staff and destroy it perhaps, would be at the cost of one's own life.
This seems like as good a place to any to put forth my theory about Nimspleen. Specifically, he and Red were one and the same. My reasoning behind this:
  1. The Dig psionic, which Rian mentions Red using in one of her diary entries, was found in Nimspleen's private office.
  2. The fact that Red didn't kill Rian, but instead mortally wounded her so that she would suffer more, matches with the description of Nimspleen as a sadist.
  3. Red's "repulsive accomplishments" could very well have included the "games" Nimspleen played in his Cave of Pleasure.
  4. Red is described as "devoted to his own self-advancement", so he's definitely the type to use his power to establish a personal kingdom on one of the islands.

As for my theory as to what happened on McTeague... Red took direct control of the island under the name "Nimspleen," establishing the Cave of Pleasure as a place to play his sadomasochistic games with the people of McTeague. Eventually, he got bored and used the Dig psionic to let monsters into Skora to destroy it. During the attack, he disappeared and was presumed dead. The Scepter of Punishment was a tool created by Nemesis, which Himan managed to get his hands on after the attack. Whether this was a deliberate move on Red's part or not, I have no idea. Anyway, with that epic plot dump, this seems like a good place to end this update. TTFN!
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Old 02-08-2019, 09:54 AM
Kahran042 Kahran042 is offline
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Default Bonus Update 6: Through the Looking Glass

Last time, we saw what happens when you use the N Staff to teleport to Isle Rochelle. The route through the mirror is easier, but less rewarding. However, this is an LP, so let's check it out anyway

This is the mirror in question. It should be noted that despite what Ronan said, it's a one-way trip - you can go back through, but doing so is instant death.

It leads to a room in Castle Rochelle filled with Ronan Minions. Thankfully, they're just as wimpy as they were back in the tower. It's also interesting to note that these ones don't scream when killed.

Just to the north is a machine output, a lever, and seven Bastitch Swords. The lever is one of this game's many unsolved mysteries - it doesn't seem to do anything. Does anyone have any ideas about what it does?

Rian is waiting just outside the room, and has a different intro this time.

If you ask her about the mirror, she has this to say.

I think you can also get this result if you talk to her in the corridor outside the monster factory, but it makes more sense here. This is also her response to queries about Ronan, Flog or the Minions, FWIW.

Ending the conversation has the same effect as in the other path, but I think she survives for a few more steps in this one. This is the approximate point where the paths converge, so that's it for this update. Next time, we take on Red.

Last edited by Kahran042; 02-08-2019 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 02-09-2019, 06:06 AM
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Yama Yama is offline
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She also says "Yes, of course, you must be familiar with the monsters on the islands… Nemesis is responsible for those too, though inadvertently. It seems that though using his power on the island as he has - to influence them for his 'experiments' - a side effect has been the development of those monsters, who literally rise up out of the ground to make the islands all but unlivable. They are truly mindless and… I do not think even Nemesis understands them. He is not omniscient, you know…" when asked about the monsters.
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Old 02-11-2019, 03:39 PM
Kahran042 Kahran042 is offline
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Default Red Alert

Originally Posted by Yama View Post
She also says "Yes, of course, you must be familiar with the monsters on the islands… Nemesis is responsible for those too, though inadvertently. It seems that though using his power on the island as he has - to influence them for his 'experiments' - a side effect has been the development of those monsters, who literally rise up out of the ground to make the islands all but unlivable. They are truly mindless and… I do not think even Nemesis understands them. He is not omniscient, you know…" when asked about the monsters.
I can't believe I forgot to ask that. Thanks!

Anyway, on with the update proper. As you may recall, Rian suggested that it would be a good idea to get rid of Red before doing anything. He lives on the first floor, so let's go there.

The main difference in the two paths is where you start. You need a Tuning Fork to open the secret passage to the trial chambers, which is probably why Rian drops one when she dies. Incidentally, she only drops it when she dies naturally, which means that if you kill her on this path and don't have the Tuning Fork from Morage, you'll be stuck in here forever.

The paths converge here, at the second-floor landing. We'll be exploring this floor later, but right now, we have another priority.

First of all, dropping off useless items to free up inventory space.

Then, heading down to Red's quarters.

Judging by his taste in fashion, this man is probably Red.

They really don't pull any punches in making the player hate this guy, do they? However, as he says, he is still willing to talk to Katrielle, which he'll do as soon as she enters a tile adjacent to him. Here's what he has to say.

name: "My name? You pathetic idiot, everyone knows who I am. Talks of my accomplishments bring terror across the land. I'm Red, accomplice of the powerful Nemesis, who's responsible for all that you saw on the Archipelago, all of it."
job: "Job? Feh, I wouldn't call it a job. What I do, I do 'cause it's fun, because it makes me the superior of everyone else, makes me the person no one forgets. When I bring in screaming subjects for N.'s lab, do you think they ever forget me?"
nemesis: "Nemesis gave me my start all-right, but I've had just about enough of his elitist preaching. I mean, if you're going to be a despot, fine, whatever, but you gotta do it right, and he just isn't doing it right, not like I would. But the thing I worry about is that if I... or anybody, were to kill him it might destroy the whole Archipelago, or damage it really badly. I mean, he has his power so invested in controlling everything that... who knows what would happen. But I'll find the time, I'll pull it off."
castle: "I'll never know why he named this island and this castle Rochelle. Once I'm in charge, it'll be Castle Red, of course, and no one will dare forget it. But it's quite a castle, all six levels. But of course N. gets the top level, and I get the first: I suppose it's better than the sub-level, but his precious staff is down there, and I couldn't get in the way of that, could I?"
island: "What do you want to know about the islands? What Nemesis has done to them? I couldn't begin to say, so much has been done by him. Maybe you noticed, there's something a little... off on each of them. Well, that's what he did, and now he spends his time studying how the people react. Has me study, and bring him back the information or what not, really. In a way, I pity them, right? But on the other hand, almost everybody on the islands is a moron, they deserve whatever they get."
monster: "You know those monsters on the islands are Nemesis' fault too, right? I mean, they're certainly unlike anything you've seen before. Do you like monster hunting like it I do? It is great fun to just go out there and slaughter a bunch of them, it's like a sport, out on the Proving Grounds especially. There's a room on the third level that Nemesis built I don't know why, but I made a secret passage in there, and he has these machines which just generate lots of monsters to kill. But, well, now I've got even a more fun sport to play: killing intruders to Rochelle."
proving: "Have you seen the Proving Grounds? Well, if you haven't, it's too late since I'm about to kill you, but they're accessible through a tunnel off the northwest corner of Isle Rochelle. Nemesis made it, I don't know why: maybe for a present for me because he knew I like monster hunting so much. Or maybe for some twisted benefit of his own, who knows. It's got all the kinds there... it's too bad you'll never see it. For you anyway."
staff: "Yeah, that staff's the big mystery around here. Where did he get it, and why is it so important. Someday... someday, I'm going take him up on his offer. He said that if I took it from its store-hold in the sub-level of Rochelle that it might kill me. Why, though, I can take anything. He was just saying that because he doesn't want me to harness it for myself I think I... Hey, I'm supposed to be killing you, not giving away all my secrets. Come on, I'll give you a few more questions."

And if you ask him about anything he doesn't have a response for?

I know I haven't shown any of the "I dunno" responses, but this one just seems appropriate to show before the battle.

For a research assistant, Red is tough. I've attacked him four times and missed every time, and he's already taken a decently-sized chunk out of Katrielle's HP in that time.

Fortunately, Katrielle does have one advantage.

NPCs never use stairs or ladders, and there aren't any roaming monsters on the second floor. So I can head up there to rest between beatings, especially since Red's HP never regenerates.

Eventually, even the accomplice of the powerful Nemesis goes down. Personally, I find it highly satisfying to use Rian's sword to do so. By the way, unlike most humans, Red is worth experience - 1000, to be exact.

With Red dead, we can explore this level thoroughly. First stop, his private quarters.

The most important thing in here is this trunk. In addition to suits of Striped, Green, Blue, and Red Clothing, it also contains...

...a Glowing Key, which opens the door leading to the upper levels of the castle. This is why I needed inventory space free - for the key and the clothes it was hidden under. That being said, let's finish exploring this floor.

Just across from Red's room is a library of sorts, containing two Sour Blue Potions and a wide array of psionics. Clockwise from the door, they are:
  • Extinguish
  • Touch of Frost
  • Push Deluxe
  • Push
  • Kinetic Barrier
  • Dig
  • Incant
  • Hard Air
  • Angel of Death
  • Electric Habergeon
  • Ride the Lightning
  • Lightning Crashes
  • Electro Grasp
  • White Heat Red Hot
  • Pyromania
  • Thermal Field
  • Flame Javelin
  • Flaming Fist
  • Death Morph
  • D Morph
  • Morph
  • Trap Spotting
  • Highly Professional Glow
  • Glow
  • Mini Icicle
  • Black Sleet
  • Ice Blast
  • Another copy of Touch of Frost

Ride the Lightning, Flaming Fist, and Mini Icicle are only found in this room, AFAIK, but none of them are especially important. The potions might come in handy, though, and D Morph is necessary for something somewhat interesting later, so I take those.

The northeast corner contains two small connected rooms, one filled with weapons and the other with armor. Again, everything we've got is as good as this stuff or better. However, it might be nice to have some more ammo (specifically, 10 Moood Bolts and 15 Moood Headed Arrows) now that we've got ranged weapons that don't suck.

North of the armory is what looks like a chapel. Not something I'd expect to find in a place like this. But I guess if Dracula can have one, there's no reason Nemesis can't.

Finally, at the south end of the main corridor is something I didn't know existed for an embarassingly long time - the castle's front door. That's pretty much everything on the first floor. Next time, should we explore the upper levels of the castle or the Proving Grounds that Red mentioned?

By the way, any thoughts on either the epic info dump a couple updates back or my own theory about Nimspleen in the same update are very welcome.

Last edited by Kahran042; 02-11-2019 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 02-12-2019, 07:26 AM
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Lucas Lucas is offline
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I'm curious if Red says anything if you ask him about Nimspleen.
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Old 02-12-2019, 02:18 PM
Kahran042 Kahran042 is offline
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Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
I'm curious if Red says anything if you ask him about Nimspleen.
I just checked, and he does not. But then, most characters don't have anything to say about characters outside their own island. The vote is still open, by the way.
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Old 02-13-2019, 09:07 AM
WallyHackenslacker WallyHackenslacker is offline
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Default Nemesis veteran.

In all honesty, I built an account just to participate in this thread. I love this game dearly and have examined it thoroughly. I can even add a few tiny things you missed. May I contribute? I won't undermine what you've done here here without your permission. I love it!!

Thank you for putting this all together!
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Old 02-13-2019, 10:30 AM
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Lucas Lucas is offline
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A shame he doesn't say anything about Nimspleen but it doesn't really disprove your idea.

Anyway, there is always time for sidequesting. Off to the proving grounds!
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macintosh , obscure game , odyssey , rpg , the legend of nemesis , what is art?

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