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  #31  
Old 12-10-2009, 07:50 PM
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Just finished the first season of Torchwood. It should be renamed Douchebag Pricks and Aliens.

Abaddon was cool but the way they stopped him was sorta stupid.
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  #32  
Old 12-10-2009, 08:13 PM
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Just finished the first season of Torchwood. It should be renamed Douchebag Pricks and Aliens.

Abaddon was cool but the way they stopped him was sorta stupid.
Warned you. It does get slightly better in the second season, but not a whole heck of a lot.
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  #33  
Old 12-10-2009, 08:16 PM
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Warned you. It does get slightly better in the second season, but not a whole heck of a lot.
Trust me, we're not watching Torchwood because I want to.
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  #34  
Old 12-10-2009, 08:19 PM
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Trust me, we're not watching Torchwood because I want to.
Geez, Kelly grew to hate it even faster than I did. I figured that was the reaction of all significant others.

(She saw that James Marsters was in the second season and almost erased it from the hard drive on the spot.)
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  #35  
Old 12-10-2009, 08:38 PM
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Torchwood seemed promising in the first episode but after that it just failed to provide any reason to keep watching. I didn't finish the season.
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  #36  
Old 12-10-2009, 09:20 PM
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Geez, Kelly grew to hate it even faster than I did. I figured that was the reaction of all significant others.

(She saw that James Marsters was in the second season and almost erased it from the hard drive on the spot.)
She finds Doctor Who too weird. She still likes it, but the weirdness bugs her.

I dunno man. I just don't know.
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  #37  
Old 12-11-2009, 06:15 AM
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Just finished the first season of Torchwood. It should be renamed Douchebag Pricks and Aliens.
I watched Torchwood as a Red Dwarf-style parody of the X-Files. I derive almost all enjoyment from how campy bad it is. The terrible acting, the unconvincing gay kisses, the van with "Torchwood" written on the side, scenes that try to make monkey-faced Owen "sexy" in any way...

Parts I honestly enjoy: Gwen's cop buddy, people talking with various accents ( especially Gwen & boyfriend's extreme Welsh), the WW II flashbacks, and Jack's coat. And when Martha Jones shows up wearing jeans.
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  #38  
Old 12-11-2009, 09:14 AM
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So how worthwhile is it to digest the whole fucking epic of Doctor Who? I know a lot of it is lost to time, but I just mean in terms of complete, surviving story arcs. I recently watched all of TNG/DS9 in roughly a year, so I'm steeled for long-term sci-fi commitments and eager to earn more nerd points.
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  #39  
Old 12-11-2009, 10:18 AM
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So how worthwhile is it to digest the whole fucking epic of Doctor Who? I know a lot of it is lost to time, but I just mean in terms of complete, surviving story arcs. I recently watched all of TNG/DS9 in roughly a year, so I'm steeled for long-term sci-fi commitments and eager to earn more nerd points.
Sweet christ, no. Admittedly this is coming from someone who grew up in a city whose public broadcaster initially followed up its children's programming with Who, and later whose equivalent to YTV aired an hour of Who on weekday afternoons so I saw a lot of it naturally, but it's not a show that lends itself to that kind of viewing.

Watch the regeneration episodes, famous stuff like Genesis of the Daleks or City of Death or Earthshock, but it's not necessary to watch it in order or anything. That's part of the appeal - you sit down and pop in a serial and you're good to go.

And that's not even taking the expense into account. Might be better to just get into the Big Finish audio aplays instead.
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  #40  
Old 12-11-2009, 12:28 PM
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Also I'm pretty sure a fair number of episodes are lost/not on home video anyway.
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  #41  
Old 12-11-2009, 12:35 PM
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Plus a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge proportion of it plain sucks. Imagine the ridiculous storytelling everyone complains about here in the newer series married to the worst "effects" imaginable.

I had the same situation as Sven where public TV would air Who often, but aside from the creepy opening theme it was lost on me, being too ugly and boring when I had a Nintendo connected to that same TV. A few years ago a friend tried to get me to watch some older Who after we became huge fans of the new series - what he assured me was the "best of". I literally couldn't stay awake. And these were some of the "good" Tom Baker episodes, which I really wanted to like, and gave it the full 110% College Try. Doctor Who is an idea that, to me, has only successfully been implemented recently.
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  #42  
Old 12-11-2009, 11:13 PM
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I can like theold episodes for what they are - it certainly helps that the acting on the old series is of a higher calibre than any other sci-fi series because, well, British actors are just better - but then I've always been forgiven of cheap-looking stuff if it's acted well enough.

If you watched the new series first, odds are you're never going to get it. It's just an entirely different product. Again, it's probably easier to just get into the audio plays, which has the scripting and acting benefits without getting into issues over production quality.
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  #43  
Old 12-12-2009, 12:15 AM
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Old Who is let down tragically by its slow pace. It's painfully obvious they were stretching plots to fill in the time allotted by the BBC. There's a whole episode of Castrovalva that's just Tegan and Nyssa dragging a coffin up and down a mountain...

For anyone interested in the old series, I say watch Genesis of the Daleks and then ask yourself how much slower you're willing to go, because that's a tightly plotted episode by classic Who standards.

Tangentially in old Who news, I noticed that the Black Guardian trilogy was finally released. Mawdryn Undead really deserved to be on DVD ages ago - it's one of the rare episodes to really experiment with time travel, as well as one of the first to address the show's legacy up to that point(and fan service aside, it's a better episode than The Five Doctors).
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  #44  
Old 12-12-2009, 12:23 AM
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Five Doctors was a messy Frankenstein of a script the first time I saw it and it's only gotten worse. Three Doctors still kinda holds up, though, and I maintain that Two Doctors is Baker's best story.

City of Death is usually the one that I recommend as a test, but even that had a lot of "holy crap, we actually have the budget to film in Paris!' to its pacing. But John Cleese's guest appearance makes up for it - I think that's the only time he worked with Adams, right?
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  #45  
Old 12-12-2009, 01:17 AM
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Five Doctors was a messy Frankenstein of a script the first time I saw it and it's only gotten worse. Three Doctors still kinda holds up, though, and I maintain that Two Doctors is Baker's best story.

City of Death is usually the one that I recommend as a test, but even that had a lot of "holy crap, we actually have the budget to film in Paris!' to its pacing. But John Cleese's guest appearance makes up for it - I think that's the only time he worked with Adams, right?
Probably... Douglas Adams was vaguely connected to Monty Python but only after Cleese left, if I recall correctly. Whether they ever personally connected over City of Death, I don't know.

The sad thing about Two Doctors is it's still far from good. I just can't stand the snarky bickering between D6 and Peri. It's so wrong for the show.
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  #46  
Old 12-12-2009, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by taosterman View Post
So how worthwhile is it to digest the whole fucking epic of Doctor Who? I know a lot of it is lost to time, but I just mean in terms of complete, surviving story arcs. I recently watched all of TNG/DS9 in roughly a year, so I'm steeled for long-term sci-fi commitments and eager to earn more nerd points.
I did it. I would say some episodes are worth watching, but there's too much filler, some cliffhangers are awful, and the special effects are worse than failure. But somehow, I liked it. When the third doctor arrives, the show gains pace, and yes, the fourth doctor is the very best, but also has bad episodes/stories.
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  #47  
Old 12-12-2009, 05:45 AM
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Probably... Douglas Adams was vaguely connected to Monty Python but only after Cleese left, if I recall correctly. Whether they ever personally connected over City of Death, I don't know.

The sad thing about Two Doctors is it's still far from good. I just can't stand the snarky bickering between D6 and Peri. It's so wrong for the show.
Baker's Doctor still annoys the heck out of me even when they're trying to write him as less of a dick in the audio plays. Admittedly, part of it is that I'm a Davison fan, but he still grates. Peri's fun whenever they pair her with Davison, however, although I tend to agree with him that his best pairing's with Nyssa.
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  #48  
Old 12-12-2009, 07:09 AM
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Watch Genesis and City of Death first; they're short and contain key characters.

After that, there are some mini-story arcs and they've been released in handy sets. I'd recommend the Key to Time series (has Douglas Adams script!), the E-Space set, the New Beginnings Set (Master/Regeneration/Nyssa) and the Black Guardian set.

Genesis also lets you see Sarah Jane and K-9 is in KtT and E-Space episodes.
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  #49  
Old 12-13-2009, 05:53 PM
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I just finished Blink. That was a pretty damn good episode.
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  #50  
Old 12-13-2009, 10:28 PM
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And we finished season 3 in 4 days. The finale was fantastic.

And I love the Doctor's clothes.
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  #51  
Old 12-14-2009, 10:54 AM
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I just finished Blink. That was a pretty damn good episode.
Understatement of the year, right there.

The girl who played Sally Sparrow's apparently really good in an indie flick that's making the rounds right now.

Now go watch Life on Mars and revel in more John Simm awesomeness.
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  #52  
Old 12-16-2009, 08:35 AM
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Torchwood season 2 opener.

I just want to watch Doctor Who.
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  #53  
Old 12-16-2009, 05:01 PM
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Torchwood season 2 opener.

I just want to watch Doctor Who.
I've heard many people say that the reason Torchwood exists is to increase demand for Doctor Who. It's as good as explanation as any.

Bought my subscription to the new 8th Doctor audio season today. Don't like McGann as much as Davison, but he's about equal to McCoy in my books and I dig Lucie as a companion.
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  #54  
Old 12-16-2009, 06:29 PM
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Despite the awfulness of the first two seasons, the Torchwood miniseries from earlier this year was actually pretty good. The plot was well-structured and characters behaved in ways that were (mostly) believable. I did have some issues with it - Jack's actions at the end have made him pretty much unredeemable as a character in my eyes. By this point he's drifted so far away from his initial characterisation that there isn't really anything left to like about him now. I'd be quite happy if they carried on the series without him, tbh.

I would put a lot of the show's earlier problems down to the fact that the showrunner for seasons 1 & 2 was completely clueless. Ideally, they should've got someone like Joe Ahearne to run it(who's short-lived series Ultraviolet is an example how to do this kind of thing properly), instead of Russell Davis's mini-me, Chris Chibnall.
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  #55  
Old 12-16-2009, 08:33 PM
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I'll say it until I die, but the people behind Life on Mars and Ashes to Ashes have to get their hands on some aspect of Who at some point. Torchwood's as good a fit as any.

(yes, I know that one of the producers is co-exec-ing with Moffat, but I mean in the Davies / Moffat role. It's not like Julie Gardner actually contributed to the creative direction of the show.)
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  #56  
Old 12-21-2009, 09:31 PM
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Just finished season 2 of Torchwood. It's a vast improvement over the first season mostly because the characters don't seem as...petty anymore. But oh man we're gonna start season for of Dr. Who tomorrow!

@Pheeel: Exactly what action made Jack irredeemable to you?
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  #57  
Old 12-22-2009, 02:22 AM
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I'm talking about the end of Children Of Earth when he sacrifices his own grandson to stop the invasion, and then just goes "fuck all yas" and leaves Earth forever! It just left me thinking, "I don't much like that guy anymore."

I really did like the character as he was originally written way back in Season 1 of New Who, but I can't say I approve of what they've done to him since.
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  #58  
Old 12-22-2009, 07:36 AM
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Jack sacrificed his own grandson because all of Earth's children were about to be abducted by the 456's. There wasn't any time to find another child. And I thought he left the planet because he was sickened by the fact that the Earth's government gave up the child population without any sort of resistance.
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  #59  
Old 12-22-2009, 09:23 AM
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I'd be quite happy if they carried on the series without him, tbh.
At that point they'd have one main character left.

I kind of like how Torchwood went from a massive secret organization in Doctor Who to five dudes in a basement in the series. The "this is not actually good" kind of liking.
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  #60  
Old 12-25-2009, 12:55 PM
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Bump as the cycle of hitting refresh on Demonoid every ten minutes or so begins. One of the great Christmas traditions - Kelly's even trained to do it if she knows I haven't done so in a while.
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