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  #8431  
Old 09-22-2016, 08:05 PM
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I read an old, old Star Trek novel today (The Entropy Effect) to kill time on the plane. It was insubstantial, on par with a solid episode of the TV series, which I think is the best you could really hope for with one of these. The author did a good job of capturing the cadences of the characters, at least. However, it was incredibly interesting as a glimpse into the seething '70s Trek fandom. It had:

- A Mary Sue, possibly an author stand-in, romancing Sulu (who decided to grow his hair long, and a mustache!?);
- A lot of prominent female characters belonging to never-before-heard-of races, with just the mildest hint of a sapphic overtone;
- Spock barely restraining himself from stroking Kirk's face passionately.

I kinda want to read some more. Maybe those pre-Pocket Books novels like Price of the Phoenix and Spock Must Die!... I have a feeling those are gonna hold up about as well as the Gold Key comics.
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  #8432  
Old 09-22-2016, 08:45 PM
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I started this list as just a "recommended Voyager" list, but then I started making silly blurbs about them all! So HERE WE GO! Spoiler alert.

S1
Caretaker (Janeway goes crazy because she fucked up)
Parallax (Gee, this Maquis/Starfleet tension might be going somewhere!)
Time ang Again (Janeway time travels and meets John Elway!)
Phage ( Aliens swipe Neelix's lungs. It's his own damn faut. Janeway gives the aliens a stern talking-to.)
The Cloud (Eh, a giant space thingy swallows Voyager)
Ex Post Facto (Tuvok plays an Ace Attorney game)
Emanations (Harry Kim dies. He gets better.)
State of Flux (OMG Seska is a bad!)
Heroes and Demons (The first real The Doctor episode. Not super great. Harry Kim "dies...?")
Cathexis (Everyone goes crazy because Chakotay)
Faces (Freaky shit all up ins)
Jetrel (Neelix gets to sit on a moral high horse. The audience is nauseated.)
Learning Curve (Evil Janeway and her jackbooted minion Tuvok)

S2
The 37's (Amelia Earhart! Who cares about that!?)
Initiations (Chakotay story. Watching paint dry is more interesting)
Projections (The Doctor goes crazy because he might be a real person)
Elogium (Kes goes in to heat. It's as icky as it sounds.)
Non Sequitur (Harry Kim gives up a life with his one true love to be stuck in the Delta Quadrant with Tom Paris, probably for the rest of his life)
Twisted (Someone installs Super Metroid Randomizer on to Voyager)
Parturition (Neelix and Tom fight over Kes. Dinosaurs are involved.)
Persistence of Vision (Janeway goes crazy because holodeck)
Tattoo (Chakotay story. Actively offensive)
Cold Fire (Kes realized the power of PK Fire!)
Manuevers (Hello again, Seska.)
Resistance (So forgettable. Maybe Janeway goes crazy?)
Prototype (Torres finds a robot friend. Robot friend tries to kill her.)
Alliances (Janeway goes crazy trying to unite the Kazon factions)
Threshold (Janeway goes crazy and turns in to a salamander.)
Meld (Tuvok does a "very smart" thing)
Dreadnought (Astronomically speaking, the chances of something like this happening are damn near impossible.)
Death Wish (A truly good Q episode)
Lifesigns (The Doctor gets a Vidiian girlfriend. It doesn't last.)
Investigations (Neelix makes a YouTube channel. Then kills Carth Onasi.)
Deadlock (Harry Kim dies. Kind of.)
Innocence (Tuvok meets the most impossible thing)
The Thaw (Harry Kim is brain-tortured by Michael McKean)
Tuvix (Neelix is turned in to a tolerable character. Janeway kills him because she wants Tuvok back.)
Resolutions (Off-camera disease maroons Janeway and Chakotay. Janeway goes crazy playing with a monkey.)
Basics (Voyager gets what it deserves for putting us through all the above bullshit)


S3

Flashback (George Takei!)
The Chute (Harry Kim is in prison with Tom Paris.)
The Swarm (I've forgotten this episode. The description mentions that the Doctor is sick, I guess?)
False Profits (Lucy with giant ears pulls the football out at the last second)
Remember (I've forgotten this episode. The description mentions that Torres has brain problems, I guess?)
Sacred Ground (Janeway goes crazy trying to reconcile science and religion)
Future's End (Sarah Silverman calls Tom Paris a "real Freakasaurus". Also Neelix gets addicted to soap operas)
Warlord (Kes dumps Neelix. And I love seeing Neelix suffer.)
The Q and the Grey (Bad Q episode. Features Worf's Dead Girlfriend as a guest star.)
Macrocosm (Giant viruses that spray disease cum on everyone. Janeway in a tanktop.)
Fair Trade (Neelix fucks up)
Alter Ego (Harry Kim is sexually confused. Film at 11.)
Coda (Janeway goes crazy because she's dying over and over.)
Blood Fever (Nobody on Voyager's writing staff watched "Amok Time".)
Unity (HAY LOOK GUISE THE BORG WATCH OUR SHOW AGAIN PLZ)
The Darkling (The Doctor goes crazy plugging Lord Byron and Gandhi in to his brain)
Rise (I didn't know this episode existed.)
Favorite Son (Harry Kim is sexually confused. Again.)
Before and After (Prequel to Year of Hell...ish)
Real Life (A Very Special The Doctor episode)
Distant Origin (Space Dinosaur mans!)
Displaced (Aliens steal Voyager. Again.)
Worst Case Scenario (Seska steals Voyager. Again. From beyond the grave.)
Scorpion (Hello, Seven of Nine!)

S4
The Gift (Bye, Kes!)
Day of Honor (Torres goes crazy because she dies. Twice.)
Nemesis (Chakotay goes crazy because war is hell.)
Revulsion (A psychotic hologram goes all Misery on Torres and The Doctor)
The Raven (Seven Backstory!)
Scientific Method (Janeway goes crazy because of aliens doing SCIENCE!)
Year of Hell (Janeway goes crazy because of a serious Captain Ahab complex)
Random Thoughts (Torres gets angry. This is illegal on this planet. Hilarity ensues.)
Concerning Flight (Oh, Bee-tee-dubs, John Rhys Davies as Leonardo da Vinci.)
Mortal Coil (Neelix dies. That's good. Neelix gets resurrected. That's bad.)
Waking Moments (Everyone goes crazy because aliens are in their dreams.)
Message in a Bottle (The Doctor and Andy Dick team up to beat Romulans. Also, Voyager phones home finally.)
Hunters (Let's take the Predator species, and make them as boring as possible!)
Prey (Are you excited for Boring Predators yet?)
Retrospect (Seven goes crazy when an asshole fucks with her brain.)
The Killing Game (The Prerequisite NAZIS episode!)
Vis A Vis (Tom Paris becomes a girl.
The Omega Directive (Janeway goes crazy because Starfleet told her to)
Unforgettable (Chakotay fell in love off camera. Don't worry, you'll get to see him do it all over again.)
Living Witness (Legit good episode. The Doctor tackles racism and revisionist history, and Fake-Voyager crew is all evil!)
Demon (Harry is cloned by a planet. It will end terribly.)
One (Seven can run the entire ship all by herself. Predictably, she goes crazy.)
Hope and Fear (Voyager's been burned by miraculous "GET HOME QUICK" schemes before. They act skeptical.)

S5
Night (Janeway goes crazy because she realized she fucked up back at the beginning.)
Drone (Seven and the Doctor have Transporter sex, and a new Borg drone is born. Hilarity ensues.)
Extreme Risk (Torres is suicidal. This is actually a pretty good character piece.)
In the Flesh (Chakotay hits on a 4-legged alien. It's okay, she's disguised as a human.)
Once Upon a Time (Whimsical holodeck nonsense with Neelix and a little girl.)
Timeless (Legit good episode. Harry goes crazy because he killed everyone on Voyager, and now he must set right what once went wrong.)
Infinite Regress (Seven goes crazy pretending to be a bunch of other people who were assimilated.)
Nothing Human (Josef Mengele allegory episode!)
Thirty Days (Legit good episode. Tom becomes a terrorist, and spends some time in the space pokey all alone.)
Counterpoint (Janeway tries her hand at a Xanatos Gambit. Partial success?
Latent Image (The Doctor goes crazy because he chose to save Harry Kim's life over a cute girl.)
Bride of Chaotica! (Legit good episode. Janeway is queen of the spider people.)
Gravity (A Tuvok episode. About as exciting as watching grass grow.
Bliss (Moby Dick allegory episode!)
Dark Frontier (Seven goes back to the Borg. Janeway goes crazy.)
The Disease (A two-fer! Harry Kim is sexually confused AND goes crazy because of it!)
Course: Oblivion (It ends in tears.)
The Fight (Chakotay has always been in to boxing, doncha know? Also, I think he goes crazy.)
Think Tank (Jason Alexander not being Jason Alexander. Impressive!)
Juggernaut (I mixed this one up with Warhead. It's forgettable.)
Someone to Watch Over Me (o/ The Doctor and Seven sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G!)
11:59 (Let's build a giant tower in the middle of Bumfuck, Indiana!)
Relativity (Future Time Cop goes crazy because Voyager's being Voyager.)
Warhead (The Doctor goes crazy pretending he's a bomb.)
Equinox (Janeway goes crazy because they find another Federation ship that got lost in the Delta Quadrant!)

S6
Survival Instinct (Seven backstory. She went crazy once upon a time, when she was separated from the collective)
Barge of the Dead (Torres goes crazy when she dies. Twice.)
Tinker Tenor Doctor Spy (The Doctor goes crazy when he starts daydreaming.)
Alice (Tom falls in love with a space ship. I think he went crazy.)
Riddles (Tuvok gets brain problems, and turns out he's actually a pretty cool guy.)
Dragon's Teeth (Evil Space People get woken up. Voyager blows its action budget for the season.)
One Small Step (Chakotay Seven learns a thing about humanity.)
The Voyager Conspiracy (Seven goes crazy when she tries to plug the last 6 seasons in to her brain all at once.)
Pathfinder (Reg Barclay goes crazy because he wants to talk to Voyager.)
Fair Haven (Janeway meets a holographic boyfriend. Again.)
Blink of an Eye (Voyager rips off a fairly well known sci-fi story.)
Virtuoso (The Doctor goes crazy when an entire planet falls in love with the sound of his voice.)
Memorial (Everyone goes crazy when a thingy beams memories of war crimes in to their brains.)
Tsunkatse (UPN goes crazy when they think that WWE and Star Trek can mix.)
Collective (You know what Voyager needed? MORE CHILDREN.)
Spirit Folk (Have you had enough of the Irish town? WELL TOO BAD HERE'S MORE.)
Ashes to Ashes (A dead crewman comes back for revenge.)
Child's Play (HEY WE PUT BORG KIDS ON THE SHIP CHECK THEM OUT)
Good Shepherd (Janeway tortures three nobody nerds on the ship. Is pleased with herself afterward.)
Live Fast and Prosper (Voyager cosplayers scam people.)
Muse (Torres gets Misery'd and tells a guy stories.)
Fury (Hey guys, remember Kes? Well, She went crazy!)
Life Line (The Doctor meets his maker. Like, actually. Also, more Reg! Yay! And more Counselor Troi! Yaaaaay....)
The Haunting of Deck Twelve (Neelix tells a ghost story. Nobody is scared.)
Unimatrix Zero (Seven meets her old Borg boyfriend in her dreams. Janeway goes crazy because she turns in to a Borg.)

S7
Imperfection (Seven's dying! Let's steal some Borg organs off dead drones!)
Drive (GOTTA GO FAST!)
Repression (Tuvok goes crazy because Tom made a 20th century movie theater on the holodeck.)
Critical Care (The Doctor gives the one-finger salute to the Hippocratic Oath.)
Inside Man (Reg Barclay? Confident and funny? CLEARLY NOTHING IS WRONG ABOUT THIS.)
Body and Soul (The Doctor plugs himself in to Seven's body. Hilarity ensues.)
Nightingale (Harry Kim meets Shepherd Book. He is not a natural born leader.)
Flesh and Blood (Remember the Boring Predators? Well, they're being stupid.)
Shattered (A clever way to do a clip-show: Wibbly-wobbly-sciencey-wiencey Chakotay recruits a crack-team of Voyager crew members from throughout time to beat Seska. Again.)
Lineage (Torres tries to violate the laws that were made because of Khan Noonien Singh. Nobody seems to care except Tom and the Doctor.)
Repentance (DEATH PENALTY MESSAGE SHOW)
Prophecy (Hey, Klingons, why not?)
The Void (A microcosm of the Voyager experience. Except done, y'know, competently.)
Workforce (Everyone forgets who they are, and gets boring, non-spacey jobs. They get better.)
Human Error (Seven does the same shit Reg Barclay did when he was first introduced.)
Q2 (John De Lancie lost a bet, and now his son is a Q in a bad episode of Voyager.)
Author, Author (The Doctor writes Mirror Universe fanfic of Voyager. Nobody is amused.)
Friendship One (Wait, we didn't kill Lt. Kerry? LET'S FIX THAT, SHALL WE)
Natural Law (What even is this I don't)
Homestead (NEELIX LEAVES THE DAMN SHIP FINALLY)
Renaissance Man (The Doctor pretends to be the crew so he can steal Voyager for a bunch of alien jerks. Janeway is not amused.)
Endgame (TIME TRAVEL. WEAK STORYTELLING. THEY DON'T ACTUALLY GET HOME.)

Last edited by TirMcDohl; 09-23-2016 at 08:40 AM.
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  #8433  
Old 09-22-2016, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Parish View Post
I kinda want to read some more. Maybe those pre-Pocket Books novels like Price of the Phoenix and Spock Must Die!... I have a feeling those are gonna hold up about as well as the Gold Key comics.
Mmm hmm. I'm reading Pawns and Symbols here and there, almost done. It also captures the personalities of the show's characters really well, but they're relegated to about 1/3 of the book. The rest is a romance novel between a human woman and her Klingon captor who coerces her into sex, but she falls in love with him anyway.
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  #8434  
Old 09-22-2016, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by TirMcDohl View Post
Endgame (TIME TRAVEL. WEAK STORYTELLING. THEY DON'T ACTUALLY GET HOME.)
Agh this was so annoying. It's like they turn onto their street but the show decides not to follow them to the driveway.
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  #8435  
Old 09-23-2016, 02:02 AM
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Agh this was so annoying. It's like they turn onto their street but the show decides not to follow them to the driveway.
It's like they over-reacted from DS9. "Man, that epilogue went on way too long. Let's not have any in this finale!"
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  #8436  
Old 09-23-2016, 05:45 AM
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In Platos Children, the Enterprise is called in to provide medical help for some aliens who really liked Plato and tried to be like him in every way, such as that they have indefinitely long lifespans, vast telekinetic powers, and are the worst! Like, seriously, the worst! Even the aliens who show up and are purely defined by the fact that they are a whole species of The Bad Guys are more sympathetic than these jackasses.

Anyway, one of them nearly died from a small cut (God, what an asshole) and after Bones saves him, he insists that he stick around to act as a court physician. For a race of semi-immortal jackasses. Obviously he doesn't want to, so the court decides to use their psychokinesis to torture and manipulate the Enterprise crew until he agrees. Even Spock hates them after that.

Eventually, with the help of the assholes special court jester who doesn't have any powers and is also a dwarf, Bones figures that the food that grows naturally on the planet causes vast psychokinetic powers and immortality in anything human-shaped (but it doesn't work on dwarves), and Bones creates a super-powerful concentration of it and gives it to the landing party. Kirk pretty much immediately overthrows the planet as soon as it kicks in (which is sometime after a rapey scene where the jackass aliens started forcing everyone on one another) and then announces that the Federation is going to come by and police them for their massive human rights violations and they'll know how to handle the psychokinesis so watch your asses. Then he leaves and takes the very grateful dwarf with him. Probably really glad to leave the place.
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  #8437  
Old 09-23-2016, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Traumadore View Post
Mmm hmm. I'm reading Pawns and Symbols here and there, almost done. It also captures the personalities of the show's characters really well, but they're relegated to about 1/3 of the book. The rest is a romance novel between a human woman and her Klingon captor who coerces her into sex, but she falls in love with him anyway.
It's been a long, long time since I've read any of the Klingon or Romulan novels, but I seem to recall that the Pocket authors collective sort of created their own shared canon for those races that in a lot of ways was more interesting than what the shows eventually gave us. Also, if I remember correctly, a lot of the earlier novels were more about author insert characters than about the crew, which came to a head in Strangers from the Sky — it originally barely featured the cast at all in an early draft, and the publisher/licensors put their foot down and said, "No! People want to read about Kirk and Spock!" Which was probably true. So the book got a rewrite, and novels after that all happened from the crew's perspective.

Anyway, I started reading through the novelization of The Motion Picture, since supposedly it was written by Roddenberry, and if this is his unvarnished vision of what the Federation was supposed to be like... sheesh.
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  #8438  
Old 09-23-2016, 08:29 AM
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Then he leaves and takes the very grateful dwarf with him. Probably really glad to leave the place.
Unfortunately, the dwarf could not avert his villainous heritage. He stole a time machine and traveled back to the Wild Wild West.
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  #8439  
Old 09-23-2016, 09:18 AM
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The last season of Voyager is weird and terrible but it has blessed us with some excellent Barclay episodes.
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  #8440  
Old 09-23-2016, 10:29 AM
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Anyway, I started reading through the novelization of The Motion Picture, since supposedly it was written by Roddenberry, and if this is his unvarnished vision of what the Federation was supposed to be like... sheesh.
Please elaborate!
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  #8441  
Old 09-23-2016, 10:32 AM
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Unfortunately, the dwarf could not avert his villainous heritage. He stole a time machine and traveled back to the Wild Wild West.
Oh... My... God...

There is no Tv show I want to watch more than this!
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  #8442  
Old 09-23-2016, 10:42 AM
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The Wild Wild West The TV Show is peak octane Octo and I apologize for not bringing it up to you sooner.
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  #8443  
Old 09-23-2016, 11:05 AM
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The Wild Wild West The TV Show is peak octane Octo and I apologize for not bringing it up to you sooner.
The seasons are really cheap on Amazon, and Santa Law has not descended yet.

I forgive you, but you're cutting it awful close to the wire!
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  #8444  
Old 09-23-2016, 11:42 AM
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Please elaborate!
Oh boy.

The book begins with a preface by Captain Kirk talking about how he's a throwback in humanity, a conservative individual who was selected for command because he's less culturally/morally evolved than many other humans. The "new humans" who are continually referenced throughout the book.

The movie's prologue with the Klingon vessels and Regula IX being fried is something he witnesses through a mandatory brain implant Starfleet put inside his skull.

You find out he was coerced into becoming an admiral because Fleet Admiral Nogura needed a propaganda symbol and didn't care about Kirk's personal well-being (McCoy and several other psychological/medical experts opined that being pinned to a desk would be like a death sentence for Kirk).

And he receives his Vejur briefing not from Nogura but rather from his envoy, a woman who had been assigned to serve as his sexual/life partner for one year after he returned from the five-year mission and whom Kirk suddenly suspects had been part of Nogura's scheme to bump him to the admiralty.

I don't really like Roddenberry's utopian future, is what I'm saying.
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  #8445  
Old 09-23-2016, 11:45 AM
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I guess what I'm saying is that I think Roddenberry genuinely hoped for a better, more egalitarian/socialist future for humanity, but his trying to envision it was like a two-dimensional being trying to explain the third dimension. He knew it was out there but lacked the ability to truly grasp or explicate it.
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  #8446  
Old 09-23-2016, 12:18 PM
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It's like they over-reacted from DS9. "Man, that epilogue went on way too long. Let's not have any in this finale!"
That was a MASSIVE misread of the audience. People wanted to see them adjusting to all the changes that had happened since they'd left (the Maquis missing the Dominion War, for instance.)

Really, the last episode should've been Starfleet trying to court-martial Janeway for her fuckup in Caretaker or something. Although I guess they'd pissed that possibility away when she wasn't instantly relieved of command when they got back into contact and presumably transmitted their logs.
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  #8447  
Old 09-23-2016, 12:23 PM
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I mean, she even made Admiral for god's sakes.
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  #8448  
Old 09-23-2016, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Parish View Post
I guess what I'm saying is that I think Roddenberry genuinely hoped for a better, more egalitarian/socialist future for humanity, but his trying to envision it was like a two-dimensional being trying to explain the third dimension. He knew it was out there but lacked the ability to truly grasp or explicate it.
Taking a plot point from Soylent Green makes it no utopia.

Gene was great... but he's like if your grandfather was a progressive. Still only a progressive in his frame of reference. If that makes sense
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  #8449  
Old 09-23-2016, 12:41 PM
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That was a MASSIVE misread of the audience. People wanted to see them adjusting to all the changes that had happened since they'd left (the Maquis missing the Dominion War, for instance.)
The problem isn't that the last episode of DS9 was so much epilogue. It's that it was a poor epilogue. The "what are the characters going to do now" was fine, the flashbacks were unnecessary (and in particular Worf's were jarring for the lack of Jadzia), but the shoehorning in the final Pah Wraith / Prophet battle as a "real" ending felt so forced and unearned.

The poor Trek finales just make TNG's look so much better.
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  #8450  
Old 09-23-2016, 01:09 PM
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I meant that was the issue with Voyager - you were right that they saw how people reacted to DS9 ending and assumed that people didn't want an epilogue, when the only thing that could've redeemed Voyager at that point was a really good epilogue.

The crew was, essentially, out of touch for seven years. There's a reason Rip Van Winkle's a pretty timeless story.
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  #8451  
Old 09-23-2016, 01:29 PM
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No, I get you. I remember a lot of people saying they should have gotten back to Earth midway through season 7 and the remainder was about the fallout of that.
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  #8452  
Old 09-23-2016, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by chud_666 View Post
Gene was great... but he's like if your grandfather was a progressive. Still only a progressive in his frame of reference. If that makes sense
Yeah, absolutely. Men and women are equal! (But boy, female trouble, amirite? And check out the way they fill out those miniskirts!) All races live in unity! (But they actually called Mr. Sulu "inscrutable" in one episode.)
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  #8453  
Old 09-23-2016, 03:42 PM
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The seasons are really cheap on Amazon, and Santa Law has not descended yet.

I forgive you, but you're cutting it awful close to the wire!
And I stopped at Costco on the way home and found the entire series for almost half what Amazon is selling it for.

Healthy Living, I guess?
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  #8454  
Old 09-23-2016, 04:17 PM
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Maybe Gene was just extremely disillusioned in the 70s and early 80s, like the rest of the world was?
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  #8455  
Old 09-23-2016, 06:01 PM
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Maybe Gene was just extremely disillusioned in the 70s and early 80s, like the rest of the world was?
This novel has a startling number of sexual metaphors.
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  #8456  
Old 09-23-2016, 07:38 PM
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I'll take this time to pimp Chaos on the Bridge again. Lots of insight to ole Gene's frame of mind in his waning years.
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Old 09-23-2016, 11:09 PM
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JBear JBear is offline
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Originally Posted by chud_666 View Post
I'll take this time to pimp Chaos on the Bridge again. Lots of insight to ole Gene's frame of mind in his waning years.
It's worth it for the stories about Gene's lawyer alone. Also that bit about them stealing food from the set of Cheers.
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Old 09-24-2016, 12:01 AM
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This novel has a startling number of sexual metaphors.
Remember how the Ferengi were originally going to have huge bejeweled codpieces because Gene wanted them to have massive dicks?
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Old 09-24-2016, 11:19 AM
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It's worth it for the stories about Gene's lawyer alone. Also that bit about them stealing food from the set of Cheers.
Well, Cheers stole Kirstie Alley from the set of The Wrath of Khan... seems only fair.
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Old 09-24-2016, 06:42 PM
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Yoooo — I just realized that in Star Trek II Kirk is eating an apple as he talks about his Kobayashi Maru experience, and NuKirk eats an apple while cheating at Kobayashi Maru in Trek '09. That's a rad and subtle callback!
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