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Old 07-16-2014, 11:26 PM
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Default How many dragons is too many? What about dungeons? A thread for the D&D devotee

I noticed a lot of people saying Dungeons and Dragons is worth its own thread; I figured it was about time someone actually did.

Alrighty fellows and fellettes, have a talking point to get us started: D&D 5E is out in a month and games are being played with the demo rules as we speak. Possibly the most drastic change is that D&D finally has roleplaying baked right into character creation, with spots on the character sheet for backgrounds! Personality traits! Bonds! Flaws! They even go so far as to give you a slight mechanical reason to roleplay, in the Inspiration rule: if the GM likes your roleplaying, you get to have Advantage on a future roll.

What do you think about that? Will it be enough to silence the ever-annoying "roleplay vs. roll-play" internet arguments? Maybe it doesn't go far enough, and every player should also have to list everyone in the last two generations of their family and that of their closest rival? Or is this secretly a tragedy - a massive reduction of the murderhobo habitat, already dangerously threatened by games like Fate Core and Legend of the Five Rings? I can dream that those are also popular.

Also, I suddenly have some extra free time this Saturday, possibly enough I could do a write-up of a quick character creation under the fifth edition rules. Is that a thing people would be interested in?
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Old 07-17-2014, 12:06 AM
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I'm running the started set campaign this Friday and several of my players have been clamoring for one. I would wait until the PHB comes out to make a full on character creator.

So far, I really love 5e. 4e was way too slow for me tastes and felt like it sucked a lot of the fun imaginative parts out of DnD. 5e seems to be very stripped down to what it needs to be fun and interesting. It could just be that not much is out but I am excited.
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Old 07-17-2014, 08:18 AM
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I've been playing some variation of D&D for most of my life at this point.

I picked up the Starter Set when I saw it was pretty cheap on amazon, and am going to run a few of my friends from Colorado through the adventure using the pregens. They have never played more than a session or two of 4th edition, and I've never used Roll20 before, so I am not sure how well it is going to go.

My roleplaying bookshelf has all my D&D core books for 2nd-4th, with Pathfinder sitting comfortably next to them. I never really get into anything outside of the core books for any edition for the most part, so I still have room for the 5th edition stuff when it all hits.
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Old 07-17-2014, 09:08 AM
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I've had bad luck with pen-and-paper RPGs. Being able to play them with actual people, that is. I either can't find anyone who's interested, or will STAY interested, or some kind of interpersonal drama comes up and ruins the whole thing. It'd be nice to be able to actually play 5e with some people at some point in the future - it seems really cool so far, from what I've seen.
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Old 07-17-2014, 09:31 AM
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I've been in groups that I have had to leave due to interpersonal problems, scheduling problems, and hygiene problems. The core group I've been playing with for the past 7 years or so has been great though. It has fluctuated a bit, with people moving, losing interest or bringing in their friends - but nothing that ever 'killed' the group. We are at the tail end of a campaign now and will likely be starting fresh in the new year. I think this marks our 4th or 5th campaign together?

The only advice I have is to maybe go to open game nights/D&D Encounters/Pathfinder Society events to see if there are people who you can integrate with. It takes a while to curate a group of people who you don't know into a good group. I've had some good experiences convincing friends to just TRY the game, especially if they like more complicated board games. Usually after a 30 minute or 1 hour session you can get the basics down and give them an idea of what they would be getting in to.

It isn't a hobby for everyone, but I think more people would enjoy it if they gave it a chance.
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Old 07-17-2014, 09:47 AM
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My bad luck concerns the fact that I am simultaneously in Nowhere, USA and in the Deep South Bible Belt. There isn't so much as a card shop for forty miles in any direction, and mentioning "D&D" gets you dragged off to your nearest Sunday school for forced rehabilitation.
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Old 07-17-2014, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aturtledoesbite View Post
The PDF does mention a "Druid" class in the PHB, so yeah, there's at least one more available, and chances are Paladin (or Bard) is in there too.
While the Conspirators thread is well past this, I believe that the PHB is confirmed to contain:

Races: (From Twitter) Human, Elf, Dwarf, Halfling, Dragonborn, Gnome, Tiefling, Half-Elf, Half-Orc

Classes: Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, Wizard, Sorcerer (*), Paladin, Ranger, Barbarian, Bard, Druid

(*) - We saw the general shape of most of the other classes in the playtest previews. Apparently the Sorcerer uses "magic points" for some kind of metamagic shenanigans.
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Old 07-17-2014, 09:47 PM
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So Psion in the core books didn't make it, or is psionics some sort of feat or background or something?
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destil View Post
So Psion in the core books didn't make it, or is psionics some sort of feat or background or something?
I have no idea; I don't remember seeing any psionic material in the playtests, and it sounds like a ton of extra work. Especially since they unified the Divine and Arcane spell lists...

To clarify: the classes list is based on what was in the final playtest and what WotC has answered questions about.
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Old 07-17-2014, 11:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destil View Post
So Psion in the core books didn't make it, or is psionics some sort of feat or background or something?
This sounds pretty psion-ic to me:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Egarwaen View Post
Apparently the Sorcerer uses "magic points" for some kind of metamagic shenanigans.
If sorcerers get a build-your-own summon of any kind and those shenanigans include things like silent casting and spell empowering, that would be most of why I play psions anyway. What are you looking for?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Egarwaen View Post
In 5e Basic, I just pick "Dueling" as my fighting style and I'm done. It's awesome.
We were actually talking about this in the Conspirators IRC. Dueling is obviously aimed at fencer-types (which, count me in the camp that loves seeing them get a boost) but we were having trouble deciding if it would apply to sword-and-board fighters as well. The debate mostly came down to semantics and whether a shield counted as a weapon or not.
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Old 07-18-2014, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
We were actually talking about this in the Conspirators IRC. Dueling is obviously aimed at fencer-types (which, count me in the camp that loves seeing them get a boost) but we were having trouble deciding if it would apply to sword-and-board fighters as well. The debate mostly came down to semantics and whether a shield counted as a weapon or not.
I'd say the intent is clearly not, even if the wording is sloppy, but maybe!

I'm kind of interested in what Basic fighting style combos Champions seem to have at level 10. The obvious is anything + Defense (+1 AC) and anything + Archery (for plinking flying wizards until they drop like a rock).

Dueling + Great Weapon + versatile looked interesting, but I'm not sure if there's a point - maybe switch to Great Weapon when you've got advantage and go crit-fishing, and use Dueling the rest of the time for a reliable +2?
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Old 07-18-2014, 12:32 PM
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Would depend on how the math stats out at later levels as far as HP and defenses go, I guess.
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Old 07-18-2014, 12:34 PM
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Oh boy, going to run the starter set scenario this weekend. Playing it super straight, going to ham it up and do dwarf voices and offer cheetos & mtn dew. Yessss
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Old 07-28-2014, 11:32 PM
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Y'all ready for a steaming hot plate of Grade A Grognard Shit? Check out this super sweet photo collection of a 4e book burning. Read the comments for a glimpse into the "cathartic" effect it had on these totally-not-spoiled-manchildren as they look forward to "the return of D&D". Glimpse into the face of the people who continue to fan the flames of the frothing rage edition wars, ye mighty, and despair.

I mean, god forbid you donate hundreds of dollars worth of books to a library, or give them to friends, or do the super practical thing and sell them on eBay. Oh, no, the wounds must be healed.

I swear to god.
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Old 07-28-2014, 11:44 PM
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Edition warriors make me sad and depressed. Especially since I liked 4e and am not a fan of 3e. But I will admit that my problems with 3e are more a result of how broad and... kind of incompatable d20 as a hole ended up being, making trying to play with a community that's pretty good at min/maxing kind of a depressing thing.

I understand the complaints that people had about the way 4e decided to design itself. But I LIKED many of those, and some of the other problems (in my own playing experience) tended to arise from people not following Rule #0: The GM can change the rules to suit the game and players.

A friend was running a 4e game for another community I'm a part of, and was using one of the few adventure campaigns as the basis. The encounters and events of the campaign were... not very well written, so there were a lot of complaints from players regarding how 4e handled things like skill checks or monster stats, when all of those things were actually part of the campaign, and not how 4e handles things as a general rule.

When my friend deviated from what was laid out in the adventure, everyone had a much more enjoyable time, which just accentuated the point.
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Old 07-29-2014, 12:15 AM
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God that's depressing. And it looks like one of the communications guys for an RPG company I like defended it in the comments which is just adds to my whole frustration with the whole thing.
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Old 08-19-2014, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gahitsu View Post
Y'all ready for a steaming hot plate of Grade A Grognard Shit? Check out this super sweet photo collection of a 4e book burning. Read the comments for a glimpse into the "cathartic" effect it had on these totally-not-spoiled-manchildren as they look forward to "the return of D&D". Glimpse into the face of the people who continue to fan the flames of the frothing rage edition wars, ye mighty, and despair.
Yeah, that's totally ridiculous.

I sold my copies on ebay and made a good bit of money.
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Old 08-19-2014, 01:12 PM
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I finally went and ordered all 3 of the main books from Amazon, but I'm still hoping to see an official PDF of the PHB go up soon, since I won't be able to get my physical books from home for a few months.

I do have a scanned PDF, but it's kind of inefficiently made and laggy so I want something better. And I'd be happy to pay WotC or DTRPG for it.
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Old 08-19-2014, 01:41 PM
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I've been spoiled by the Paizo PDF solutions, and really wish I could get more of the materials from Wizard in a nice package.

I guess this is the closest we will see though:

http://www.dnddungeonscape.com/
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Old 08-20-2014, 08:58 AM
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5e is awesome, guys.
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  #21  
Old 08-20-2014, 10:05 AM
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FedEx fucked up my PHB delivery and it's not going to be here until Friday.
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Old 08-22-2014, 11:38 AM
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It arrived yesterday instead!

I have devoured the character sections and have insights to share.
  • Monks are the masters of flipping mobility. Once they gain the ability to move freely on vertical surfaces and water, there's literally no stopping them.
  • Bender Monks are all kinds of awesome, and appear to actually be the method of choice for building your Monk for raw damage. The other Monk options seem to be more utility-focused.
  • Druid shapeshifting is limited to animals they've seen, which is an elegant guard against Pun-Pun-style exploits. The way their Wild Shape rules work, they're also impressively self-sufficient. PS: a level 6 Path of the Moon Druid can transform into an Allosaurus (CR2). Win!
  • The action dice mechanic from the playtest returns for both Bards (with Valor Bards focusing on it) and Battlemaster Fighters (with a pretty even split between "I am badass!" maneuvers and "You are badass!" maneuvers), though anyone can pick up a subset of the Battlemaster with a Feat.
  • Pet Rangers look like they'll be a bit weird to play at 3rd and 4th level; only when they can multiattack at 5th can they and their pet attack at the same time, so you seem to spend two levels playing Pokemon.
  • Every single class in this book looks awesome and fun and I want to play them all at once
  • Backgrounds are way more interesting than the Basic Rules led me to believe; the set available in Basic appears to have been the most boring options. Many have a 13th Age-style "one unique thing" tucked away in their write-up somewhere, often in their equipment list. Plus, between various backgrounds (esp. Noble), the Dueling Fighting Style, and the Duelist Feat, I can actually play characters that look and fight like those from fantasy fiction without being hilariously suboptimal or taking very strange class choices.
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Old 10-08-2014, 08:15 PM
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They, uh... Chief they sold the weapons instead...

Works for me I guess?
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Old 10-27-2014, 12:26 PM
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I've been reading a lot of Robin Laws' games lately (Feng Shui 2 and Heroquest, most notably) and I think one of the most interesting parts of the D&D5e rules has his fingerprints all over it.

A common feature in Laws' games is what he calls a "dramatic hook" or a "narrative hook" - a feature of a character that compels them to act against their best interests, abandon cautious and risk-adverse behavior, and generally do interesting things and get involved. When creating your character, by the rules as written, you are supposed to come up with a reason for them to get involved, removing the stalling / spotlight-grabbing tactic of "my character wouldn't do that!" (Or other similar techniques where players dig in their heels and forcing the GM to sell them on their game whenever they feel like they're not getting enough attention)

Ideals, Bonds, and Flaws are basically this idea, broken down a little and presented in a more traditional manner.
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Old 10-27-2014, 12:42 PM
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Well, isn't the "hook" the reason the character is adventuring, anyway? Ever since I saw Spoony's video on DMing a great game, I've included a personally motivating force for my characters in their backstory.
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Old 10-27-2014, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Büge View Post
Well, isn't the "hook" the reason the character is adventuring, anyway? Ever since I saw Spoony's video on DMing a great game, I've included a personally motivating force for my characters in their backstory.
I really wish this wasn't a video, because it sounds like an important concept (that I already try to incorporate) and what I've heard is good.
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Old 10-27-2014, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Büge View Post
Well, isn't the "hook" the reason the character is adventuring, anyway? Ever since I saw Spoony's video on DMing a great game, I've included a personally motivating force for my characters in their backstory.
Yes, that's the idea, but Laws' games are some of the first (chronologically) I've seen call it out explicitly, and unique in that they don't try to build it into other mechanics. Fate, for example, folds it into Aspects and Compels, with - IMO - mixed success, while God Machine Chronicle-era nWoD tries to package it into Aspirations. D&D5e is direct about it in a similar way to Laws' designs: Ideals, Bonds, and Flaws all say "make up things about your character that explain why they do risky, sub-optimal, interesting things."
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Old 10-27-2014, 03:23 PM
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Actual serious question: What is the difference between a goblin and a hobgoblin? Please note that if your answer is "hob," I will e-slap you.
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Old 06-12-2015, 08:15 PM
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It sounds more like a 5e spell to me; it's the only edition I know that will put "concentration" in the duration, and there's also the fact how it doesn't specify the type of action, just "1 action".
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Old 06-12-2015, 08:50 PM
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Like, that's the joke, right? In 5e you can only maintain concentration on one spell at a time, so the spell that requires concentration to boost concentration takes up the very thing it's supposed to help you do.
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