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  #14191  
Old 05-10-2017, 05:07 PM
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Default The Fresh Once and Future King

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And I'd like to take a minute
So here's the plot
I'll tell you how I became the king of a town called Camelot.

In Early Middle Ages born and raised
Sir Ector's castle was where I spent most of my days
Scrubbing dishes, squiring, turning into prey
And all shooting some big game outside with Sir Kay
When a couple of fey who were up to no good
Started making trouble with good Robin Wood
I got in one little fight and Merlin got scared
He said, "You're movin' to fair Camelot 'cause you're Uther's heir!"
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  #14192  
Old 05-11-2017, 08:08 AM
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Default Review of Seth's Wimbledon Green, by Evan Dorkin

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Everyone seems to be apologizing for this book, about it being slight or whatever the hell, even Seth mea culpas for his poor widdle comical book in a very irritating introduction (and again in an irritating author's bio page). Oh, woe, it's badly lettered, oh, ah, it's poorly drawn, oh waaaah, I've gotten salty tears of regret on my vintage hand-painted tie and one of my sock-garters has snapped from my convulsive sobbing. Stop your bloodclot crying, sob-sister and re-lax. So what if it's slight, yeah yeah, but it's great slight. Give me great slight over not great heavy any day. Shut up, Seth, you dork. You made a fun, imaginative, brisk, pretty, page-turner of a book. And designed it up the ying-yang (and if you're really embarrassed by your silly little comic, why put it out as a $20 hardcover? They make newsprint for jokebooks and other such flummery, m'boy!). The comic industry might be on a bit of a roll these days, but in some ways it's been a grim, joyless journey, with everyone grimming and grittying their stupor-heroes, and the arteests putting on their black clothes and berets in search of artistic acceptance and the Great American Graphic Novel. I'm quite happy to see a solid, lighthearted book filled with good humor and interesting bits of business from somebody with some brains and chops. It's a friggin' swell book! So everyone shut up and enjoy it. I hope it becomes Seth's most revered work over time and it drives him bug-fuck crazy. It would serve Mr. Sad Dandy Fakey-Name right.

BTW, I am well aware that some of you may be thinking that it is hypocritical of me to criticize a cartoonist for running down his or her own work, when I myself do it all the time. The difference is, Seth is wrong, and I am right. So there. Now shut up.
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  #14193  
Old 05-11-2017, 08:30 AM
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I hope Evan Dorkin someday finds the peace that has seemingly forever eluded him, because he is a good dude.
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  #14194  
Old 05-12-2017, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Oh my god
It’s been three years since DashCon and Fyre Fest has happened. Meaning that in accordance to the Rule of Three, in another three years, a third and final gathering catastrophe will occur with its own symbol joining the ball pit and concierge stand to create an ungodly trifecta.

I cannot wait.
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dashcon: Tumblr

fyre fest: Instagram

I for one hope this Prophesied Third Catastrophe will lure all the Reddit MRAs into the woods and leave them there
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So…the 2020 Republican National Convention.
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  #14195  
Old 05-15-2017, 06:08 AM
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Default Ageism, or: The Trouble with Shipping

God, let's hope so.

Anyway:


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The context for this bullshit opinion is complicated, but tl;dr in fandom subculture there's this slow boiling war on between people like shipping certain characters and people who don't. The people who don't have begun to accuse the people who do of every nasty thing under the sun to get them to stop, including pedophilia, even in cases where, for example, the ages of the characters are unknown but one of them could be 17 and the other could be 20.

The insanity of their position has extended past shipping and now this whole massive philosophy about how if you're over 18 you need to get off the internet and stop doing things that could harm minors, including communicating with them, has arisen. Like all bizzare fandom arguments it has no connection to reality whatsoever.

The specific details of how this happened makes for some good popcorn reading if you're like me and enjoy watching people make endless problems for themselves, but it's a much longer read depending on how far back you want to go.
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I want to know more about this insanity.
Ok, well don't say I didn't warn you.

A couple terms first:
  • Shipping - Derived from "relationship." Imagining two characters being romantic. This is usually accompanied by producing fanworks that depict those characters in a romantic situation. The relationship can be canonical or not, and the fan works can be everything from PG handholding to XXX vore. (If someone ships Kylo Ren/Rey it means they like to think of them in a romantic/sexual relationship.) The pairing itself is called a ship.
  • Shipwar - When shippers of two different ships attack each other over their ships.
  • Wank - common fandom term for drama
  • Antis - People who invest energy in attacking shippers of a particular ship, and employ arguments of morality of social justice to do so.
  • Fandom in this case refers to a particular subset of fandom that is traditionally female oriented, focuses a lot of male/male pairings, and often chooses fanfiction as its primary output.

There are 2 big things to remember as you read this. 1) Some people are SUPER SERIOUS about fictional characters getting it on together, and 2) they will use any means at their disposal to stop people from doing it wrong. Imagine the ridiculousness of PS vs. Nintendo fanboys ratcheted up to 11 and you get an idea of how some fans approach shipping.

Generic ship wars have been happening for a very long time. If you thought Harry Potter deserved to fall in love with Draco Malfoy and Ginny was the devil you were in good company and would gather together to get those dirty Ginny fans run out of the internet. Bad actors have always been around to exploit this, either to troll, or to worm their way into popular or rarefied circles. The Ms. Scribe Story is a good example of what the old school shipwars could produce as far as wank was concerned. And in it you see the seed of what would become the modern "Anti" mentality, which is framing yourself as a victim of bigots to win sympathy points, all for the purpose of forwarding your preference of who bangs who.

This portion of fandom has always been closely linked with genre fiction, since many people in the latter are engaged in the former. Genre fiction had and still has some issues concerning race, sexism, and homophobia, which is par for the course in almost all media everywhere. In 2009 those issues came into contact with some MASSIVE WANKERS, leading to what continues to be known as Race Fail '09. A lot of people don't know this, but the term Social Justice Warrior started to pick up usage around this time, to define some very particular, very caustic people who were destroying communities by claiming the moral high ground and attacking anyone who had an opinion even slightly different from them. A few of them are listed at that link. It quickly became apparent that pointing the finger and claiming -ism! was an efficient method of silencing certain people.

Fandom, however, remained relatively insulated from this fail, which was spreading mostly in certain websites and in professional circles at the time. In '09 the internet was still relatively decentralized, and fandom was dispersed among various livejournals, archives, webforums, and so on. This limited the damage one movement could do, because just because Winterfox was shitting up one site didn't mean there was another that hadn't escaped unscathed.

Enter web 2.0, and specifically, Tumblr.

As the internet began to coalesce into platforms that aimed to monopolize user engagement, the separation between communities grew more and more difficult. Before, if you wanted to see Kylo Ren and General Hux having kinky tentacle sex you went to a community specifically for that and didn't have to worry about those people who had their own community for Rey and Finn. But now, all the shippers were converging into a single pot, a pot that had no filters, no privacy functions, and actively wanted everything to be shared as widely as possible.

Another massive change that happened about this time is that the attitude towards kids in fandom had shifted. Back in the good old days a 13 year old understood that lying about their age was the price you paid to get your porn. The kids these days no longer have that mentality. They don't think twice about declaring themselves children on the internet. This will come into play later.

Ok, as we near the present here's a quick review.
  • Ship wars are serious business to some people.
  • Screaming about social justice is a proven method of getting people to shut up.
  • There are some crazy people out there who will do anything to manipulate themselves into a position of infamy.
  • Everyone has slowly been squeezed into the same fandom spaces, adding pressure.
  • Children are fucking everywhere.

When you combine all those elements what you get is this, some really loud ass motherfuckers who think that whoever can claim oppression and bigotry the loudest is the one who deserves to ship things the way they want, and there can be only one. There have been some reaaaaaallly bad fandoms for this, but since the OP is specifically about the age issue, I'm going to stick to that and not get into some of the ridiculous racism angles this has also taken.

A lot of shows that fans like to ship for are cartoons, or shows that are ostensibly aimed towards younger audiences, but adults often are a big portion of the fandom. Ponybros are the more infamous version of this, but they are a bit of an outlier as they don't run in the same fandom circles as the old lj>tumblr fandom that is the source of this particular wank. Big targets of these conflicts include Welcome to Nightvale, Homestuck, Steven Universe, and the new Voltron series.

When Voltron came out it got super popular among fandom. A lot of fic was written, and a lot of art was drawn. Since it's a show with a team cast, people were shipping a lot of pairings that shared a member, which is often where the worst of the ship wars happen. For example, two of the biggest ships were Shiro/Keith, and Keith/Lance.

Now if you're a kid who ships Keith/Lance and haaaates Shiro/Keith, and you need to stop people from producing things involving Shiro/Keith, and you know accusing people of moral crimes is an effective tactic for this, it turns out your best option is to use pedophilia as a weapon. So people started insisting that Shiro had to be at least 20, and Keith had to be a minor, and shipping these two meant that you were a pedophile.

No, it doesn't make any sense, but the people who do this are dead serious about this. They called themselves anti-Sheith (the pairing's "smushname") and went so far as harassing the showrunners for the exact ages of all the characters and tattling on professional artists for indicating a fondness for the ship to their employers. And if people push back and say you're being an idiot, you can throw that back in their face by saying that they are adults abusing minors while simultaneously endorsing abuse and pedophilia! 20 year olds started calling themselves children so they could position themselves in a place to abuse 22 year olds. Teens started declaring 30 the age in which all women should get off the internet and stop having hobbies. And all this was done because they didn't like a fictional pairing.

This is by far not the only instance in which pedophilia was brought up as a massive reach to support attacking shippers of the wrong ship. One of the most absurd instances was spearheaded by a 30-something woman named graceebooks, a member of The Johnlock Conspiracy (another very deep rabbit hole) who actually harassed a rape survivor to tears, in public, because she preferred to have Sherlock topping John rather than John topping Sherlock, and even though these people share the same ship, and the SAME FICTIONAL CHARACTERS ARE INVOLVED, the TJLCers actually had the balls to make the claim that Sherlock topping John = pedophilia because John was being infantalized or something, IDEK. Both Voltron fandom and TJLC share this absurd notion that their "gay babies" will become a canon couple too. That's a whoooole other ball of crazy, but it explains why some people go insane over this. They genuinely believe that if they fight off the rival ships in fandom space the showrunners will reward them by making their faves kiss on the show.

So that's the context. What then happened is that these idiotic arguments that were being used for ship wars were then adopted by young, stupid children who did not understand or care about the context, and saw only the arguments themselves, and took them as reasonable and good arguments, and believe in them completely. While most of the initial wankers were just cynically throwing shit at the wall and hoping something stuck to drive out rival ships, there are now a large number of people who believe in a moral code that came out of that. It's like watching a religion form sometimes.

The end result is OP, who has bought into a convoluted logic process developed to legitimize the harassment of shippers, and is now trying to apply it to the actual real world, with predictable results.
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  #14196  
Old 05-15-2017, 08:22 AM
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that's

actually a really good post, in the sense of being a comprehensive explanation of what all the hell is going on



but god it would be a good world where it didn't have to be
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  #14197  
Old 05-15-2017, 10:00 AM
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That's also very helpful as a citation for my post in that one other thread
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  #14198  
Old 05-15-2017, 10:51 AM
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I'm suddenly very glad I only watched the Usenet anime shipping wars from the mid-to-late 90s from a safe distance.
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  #14199  
Old 05-15-2017, 10:54 AM
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eventually Madokastan genocided its major rivals and things calmed down a bit.
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  #14200  
Old 05-15-2017, 11:50 AM
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There was a tenuous peace for a time

then love-live happened
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  #14201  
Old 05-15-2017, 01:17 PM
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tl;dr: Fuck an internet
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  #14202  
Old 05-15-2017, 02:19 PM
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Voltron, actually
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  #14203  
Old 05-15-2017, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hologramblue View Post
Voltron, actually
I don't think anyone wants to fuck a Voltron.

Unless you ship Megazord with Voltron, I guess.

But then you have to call the ship "Megatron" and next thing you know you're shipping THAT with Optimus Prime.
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  #14204  
Old 05-15-2017, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zef View Post
I don't think anyone wants to fuck a Voltron.
I'm sure you're wrong about that but I don't want to go looking for the evidence.
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  #14205  
Old 05-15-2017, 02:59 PM
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Shipping is immoral.
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  #14206  
Old 05-15-2017, 03:06 PM
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If man were not meant to ship, he would not have been born with genitals that are so easily aroused by Cap/Bucky fics
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  #14207  
Old 05-15-2017, 03:28 PM
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I'm sure none of this is new. People were shipping Achilles/Patroclus like 3000 years ago.
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  #14208  
Old 05-15-2017, 04:11 PM
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the problem with love-live shipping is that so many of them bank so hard on specific pairings but with my limited knowledge of show choir my senior year in high school I find it much more believable that AT BEST they were just in a constant serial monogamy thing but with the pairings switching every couple of months hence all couplings are canon at SOME point or another
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  #14209  
Old 05-15-2017, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zef View Post
I don't think anyone wants to fuck a Voltron.
/long nasal sigh

/places an apologetic hand on your shoulder
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  #14210  
Old 05-15-2017, 05:19 PM
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AND I'LL GIVE THE HEAD

I MEAN FORM THE HEAD shit what'd I say
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  #14211  
Old 05-15-2017, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muteKi View Post
the problem with love-live shipping is that so many of them bank so hard on specific pairings but with my limited knowledge of show choir my senior year in high school I find it much more believable that AT BEST they were just in a constant serial monogamy thing but with the pairings switching every couple of months hence all couplings are canon at SOME point or another
This seems consistent with my own observations
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  #14212  
Old 05-15-2017, 06:45 PM
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Isn't love live that companion "game" where you pick one girl and constantly do the visual novel relationship building junk with her, or am I behind on JP skeeviness?
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  #14213  
Old 05-15-2017, 07:12 PM
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No. You might be thinking of the original Idolm@ster?
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  #14214  
Old 05-15-2017, 08:14 PM
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Love Live is like Puzzle and Dragons except the gameplay is a rhythm game and the heroes are high school idol girls.
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  #14215  
Old 05-15-2017, 08:46 PM
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It's also an anime.

I think it was an anime before it was a rhythm game?

muteKi probably knows.
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  #14216  
Old 05-15-2017, 10:32 PM
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Huh, I actually thought the game came out first, but it was a manga, then an anime, and only then a game -- game came out a few months after the anime, in fact. Figured it was the other way around, since the game isn't exactly a big budget affair.
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  #14217  
Old 05-15-2017, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivers View Post
I'm sure none of this is new. People were shipping Achilles/Patroclus like 3000 years ago.

"Patrochilles is canon."
--Aristotle, Poetics
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  #14218  
Old 05-16-2017, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludendorkk View Post
"Patrochilles is canon."
--Aristotle, Poetics
There's tons of fanart, too. I'd post some but they're almost all NSFW because Achilles is inexplicably heroically naked in every painting.
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  #14219  
Old 05-16-2017, 12:14 AM
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in verity, not all heroes wear capes
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  #14220  
Old 05-16-2017, 03:03 AM
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I was in the front lines during the whole Ms. Scribe brouhaha in the Harry Potter fandom, and it was an eye opener to witness first hand how social interactions on the internet are totally screwed up.

Also, Harry/Hermione is the only one true ship. Death to infidels!
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